Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 9 hours ago, frankblack said: Its that or a no deal Brexit in October. Ball is in EU's court. In addition, if parliament doesn't vote for a deal we leave in October on a no deal. I know. That's why won't budge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I don't get why the NI border is OUR problem to sort out. It is as much ROI's issue. We can just leave and the EU will have to sort it out, or we just leave it open- allowing the passage of excellent quality goods from the EU into our BrexUK, and allowing hormone beef, chlorine chicken and dodgy cack to flood into the EU from our side. Happy days! EU shuts the border to prevent this and its no longer our fault that GFE has been fecked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, doctor jambo said: I don't get why the NI border is OUR problem to sort out. It is as much ROI's issue. We can just leave and the EU will have to sort it out, or we just leave it open- allowing the passage of excellent quality goods from the EU into our BrexUK, and allowing hormone beef, chlorine chicken and dodgy cack to flood into the EU from our side. Happy days! EU shuts the border to prevent this and its no longer our fault that GFE has been fecked We’re ‘leaving’ though not Ireland, what you’ve described is a bit like walking out on your wife and then blaming her for changing the locks afterwards. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Ibrahim Tall said: We’re ‘leaving’ though not Ireland, what you’ve described is a bit like walking out on your wife and then blaming her for changing the locks afterwards. ? Seems reasonable to me! but re the border - free trade is possible, we are not in schengen anyway. The rest is not a biggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Jaysus feckin christ It's our problem because we chose to leave. We also chose to leave the customs union. Meaning we chose to have a border. But we also signed the Good Friday Agreement which prohibits a hard border. It's up to us to square that circle and propose how the new border will work within those contadictary constraints. The hated backstop is the legal default position which sorts it out if we can't come up with a solid plan (which we haven't). It's not the EU's fault if the squabbling UK parties cannot agree on what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Seems reasonable to me! but re the border - free trade is possible, we are not in schengen anyway. The rest is not a biggy. I suppose it's because the Irish want to remain, much like Scotland does. But we're being forced to leave, despite half the union wanting to remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: I suppose it's because the Irish want to remain, much like Scotland does. But we're being forced to leave, despite half the union wanting to remain. FFS You don't quite understand how referendums work, do you? Scotland and NI did not hold a Brexit referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Cade said: Jaysus feckin christ It's our problem because we chose to leave. We also chose to leave the customs union. Meaning we chose to have a border. But we also signed the Good Friday Agreement which prohibits a hard border. It's up to us to square that circle and propose how the new border will work within those contadictary constraints. The hated backstop is the legal default position which sorts it out if we can't come up with a solid plan (which we haven't). It's not the EU's fault if the squabbling UK parties cannot agree on what to do. No. It's up to us and the EU to respect democracy. It is after all the premise of which we have dropped thousands of bombs. Yet we cant defend this and find a way through because of legality and the violence of very few people. You are right about squabbles amongst our politic. That's been spanered by those who will do and say anything to avoid leaving. I cant understand those who fail to see that leaving the EU is and has been thwarted by and from the most powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, frankblack said: FFS You don't quite understand how referendums work, do you? Scotland and NI did not hold a Brexit referendum. Referendums are a view expressed on a particular topic. Theres no doubt the regional difference. That has to be acknowledged. Democracy is a reflection I respect even though it may not suit my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 So this ISDS the EU are roughshodding through? Is this the same crack that involves big business having through European precedent over national law. Putting our NHS in the same peril as leaving? Or is the EU just a big cuddly teddy bear that doesnt serve big wealth first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jake said: So this ISDS the EU are roughshodding through? Is this the same crack that involves big business having through European precedent over national law. Putting our NHS in the same peril as leaving? Or is the EU just a big cuddly teddy bear that doesnt serve big wealth first? I don't disagree, completely, Jake. But why does Scotland always have to cut themselves of from Europe every time England says so. It happened in 1707 and it's happening again. Edited June 25, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, jake said: Referendums are a view expressed on a particular topic. Theres no doubt the regional difference. That has to be acknowledged. The regional difference is irrelevant in a referendum scoped at UK level in the same way as say Shetland voting No in a Scottish Indy referendum if Yes won (as improbable as that is). 15 minutes ago, jake said: Democracy is a reflection I respect even though it may not suit my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, ri Alban said: I don't disagree, completely, Jake. But why does Scotland always have to cut themselves of from Europe every time England says so. It happened in 1707 and it's happening again. We have to break the union with England if we dont want to abide by that union. In the meantime that union wishes to break from another union. Maybe England has balls Scotland doesnt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, frankblack said: The regional difference is irrelevant in a referendum scoped at UK level in the same way as say Shetland voting No in a Scottish Indy referendum if Yes won (as improbable as that is). No it's not. It may make no difference in the direction immediately but it's another indication that Scotland must self govern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, jake said: We have to break the union with England if we dont want to abide by that union. In the meantime that union wishes to break from another union. Maybe England has balls Scotland doesnt ? Probably! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, frankblack said: The regional difference is irrelevant in a referendum scoped at UK level in the same way as say Shetland voting No in a Scottish Indy referendum if Yes won (as improbable as that is). Shetland is Scotland, Scotland isn't England. Scotland owns Shetland. The claim of rights will be used quite soon, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, jake said: No it's not. It may make no difference in the direction immediately but it's another indication that Scotland must self govern. No. Scotland decided to stay in the UK so it isn't any indication of anything as there is no direct connection with the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, frankblack said: No. Scotland decided to stay in the UK so it isn't any indication of anything as there is no direct connection with the issues. Scotland has voted differently to England for much of my life. It is fundamentally connected with these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, jake said: Scotland has voted differently to England for much of my life. It is fundamentally connected with these issues. It really isn't. The issue here is that the SNP are scared shitless that they will never win an Indy vote if we have left the EU, and bumping their gums big time. This might also be the last parliament for a while at Holyrood where Nationalists hold a controlling majority. Edited June 25, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, frankblack said: It really isn't. The issue here is that the SNP are scared shitless that they will never win an Indy vote if we have left the EU, and bumping their gums big time. This might also be the last parliament for a while at Holyrood where Nationalists hold a controlling majority. This will be the last devolved parliament. And by default, the nationalists will be no more. Other than the wee minority Britnatz. But that's fine I'm sure they'll GTF and gie's all peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, frankblack said: It really isn't. The issue here is that the SNP are scared shitless that they will never win an Indy vote if we have left the EU, and bumping their gums big time. This might also be the last parliament for a while at Holyrood where Nationalists hold a controlling majority. Tell us how you voted Yes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, ri Alban said: This will be the last devolved parliament. And by default, the nationalists will be no more. Other than the wee minority Britnatz. But that's fine I'm sure they'll GTF and gie's all peace. It will be glorious to come on here after the next Holyrood election, when the Nats lose control of Holyrood and Indy Ref 2 goes down the toilet. It will be proper tears and snotters from the Nats on here when reality finally sinks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 8 hours ago, frankblack said: It will be glorious to come on here after the next Holyrood election, when the Nats lose control of Holyrood and Indy Ref 2 goes down the toilet. It will be proper tears and snotters from the Nats on here when reality finally sinks in. Indyref2 will be this year. Claim of rights. Thanks for confirming you have never been pro independence. Funny, I thought trolling wasn't allowed. Maybe it's only certain folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: Indyref2 will be this year. Claim of rights. Thanks for confirming you have never been pro independence. Funny, I thought trolling wasn't allowed. Maybe it's only certain folk. Trolling? You post nonsense proclamations on every and any thread about Indy happening imminently like above when there is zero possibility of Indy Ref 2 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 13 hours ago, frankblack said: FFS You don't quite understand how referendums work, do you? Scotland and NI did not hold a Brexit referendum. My country voted to remain. I only want what my country voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 We out or in yet, what a total farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 13 hours ago, jake said: I cant understand those who fail to see that leaving the EU is and has been thwarted by and from the most powerful. That's why the Tory party are now out in the open flashing their leave credentials? Who exactly are these "most powerful" that are thwarting Brexit? What you fail to understand is that those espousing Brexit had no idea or plan on how to actually implement it! Single market, customs union, no deal etc - they can't make up their minds. Equally, from the CBI to Trades Unions to economic experts, there is one common theme - Brexit, in whatever shape or form, will result in an economic shock, lower living standards etc. So the party who are now trying to out Brexit the Brexit Party, who have always been the ally of business, now find themselves with a serious quandry. Taking the populist path would be reckless for the economy, taking the prudent route would destroy their standing with the "masses" (as they see it). Without re-running the referendum campaign, the benefits of leaving still look rather spurious. Slogans like "take back control", "regain our sovereignty" are a complete nonsense and when the mechanisms of the EU are looked at, are in many ways falsehoods. This is not about any of those things. Primarily this is about Tory Party politics, and perhaps a dislike of proposed new EU legislation on tightening up tax loopholes, off-shore tax havens. The "masses" may feel they are being taken to a promised land, but they are being duped by the Tory Party. And will pay the price for their hubris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: My country voted to remain. I only want what my country voted for. No they didn't. There was only one country on the ballot paper - United Kingdom - who voted collectively to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 minute ago, frankblack said: No they didn't. There was only one country on the ballot paper - United Kingdom - who voted collectively to leave. Good post Frank , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 minute ago, frankblack said: No they didn't. There was only one country on the ballot paper - United Kingdom - who voted collectively to leave. In a union of equals, some are more equal than others. But those were the rules, as gerrymandered as they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, Boris said: In a union of equals, some are more equal than others. But those were the rules, as gerrymandered as they were. Fair opinion. I am still unconvinced Brexit will happen, but god help us if Boris is PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 minute ago, frankblack said: Fair opinion. I am still unconvinced Brexit will happen, but god help us if Boris is PM. I don't know, I reckon I'd have a good go at it! Oh, you mean that Boris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, frankblack said: No they didn't. There was only one country on the ballot paper - United Kingdom - who voted collectively to leave. I looked at the Scottish result. It was considerably higher than those wanting to stay in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Trolling? You post nonsense proclamations on every and any thread about Indy happening imminently like above when there is zero possibility of Indy Ref 2 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 hours ago, frankblack said: No they didn't. There was only one country on the ballot paper - United Kingdom - who voted collectively to leave. One state, 4 countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: I looked at the Scottish result. It was considerably higher than those wanting to stay in the UK. There wasn't a Scottish result. It was a UK referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Trolling? You post nonsense proclamations on every and any thread about Indy happening imminently like above when there is zero possibility of Indy Ref 2 this year. Aussie is the Steve 'Stop Brexit' man of JKB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said: Aussie is the Steve 'Stop Brexit' man of JKB. I wouldn't really bother if Scotland wasn't a full member of the EU post indy. You on the other hand are fully fledged brexiteer who denies his own country the same. A Michael Govian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 59 minutes ago, frankblack said: There wasn't a Scottish result. It was a UK referendum. 62%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Which only goes to further prove that the UK is not a union of equals but the English Empire The democratic deficit is real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: I wouldn't really bother if Scotland wasn't a full member of the EU post indy. You on the other hand are fully fledged brexiteer who denies his own country the same. A Michael Govian! Whatever you say, Steve. Rather a Rory Stewartian actually. Edited June 26, 2019 by Trapper John McIntyre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Trapper John McIntyre said: Whatever you say, Steve. Rather a Rory Stewartian actually. Keysies Jye, i don't want to argue today. It's ma birthday, and I've 28 cans and 6 2 litre bottles of Cider to tan. I'm supposed to be aff the drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Harry Potter said: Good post Frank , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Be more funny if we get a 2nd indy ref, democracy out the window. lets keep voting till its a yes, aye very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Harry Potter said: Be more funny if we get a 2nd indy ref, democracy out the window. lets keep voting till its a yes, aye very good. So if a majority vote for independence that’s somehow undemocratic???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Be more funny if we get a 2nd indy ref, democracy out the window. lets keep voting till its a yes, aye very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 53 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Be more funny if we get a 2nd indy ref, democracy out the window. lets keep voting till its a yes, aye very good. There would need to be an agreement with the government to hold Indy 2, and there is no sign of that happening this parliament or next. The only glimmer of a chance would be a hung parliament with Labour short of a majority but that depends on Corbyn staying in charge, which may change before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: 62%. Your maths is a bit wonky pal. If remain had 62% of the UK referendum they would have won it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 28 minutes ago, frankblack said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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