Cathro replacement

[i8hibsh]

I don't particularly think he's anything special i8,we wouldn't have got some players we have without him as Cathro is as charming as fart in the mouth.

100% honest, I have never even heard him speak.

[andy9611]

Johnstone Clark

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

You mean... in the rumours feed.. ?..

 

Funny that eh.. ?

 

Not time for your bath n bottle yet wee yin ?

It wasn't a rumour though. You made it up. You've a cheek to call anyone a slaver is all I'm saying.

[Rocky jamboa]

I can't understand why people are putting names forward like Jack Ross, Hartley, Pressley etc. An inexperienced manager is what has got us in this mess in the first place! None of them has done anything special in their management careers.

 

If Cathro does end up going, we need to bring in someone with experience and George burley would be ideal. Had us playing the way we want us to play now.

[Spellczech]

I can't understand why people are putting names forward like Jack Ross, Hartley, Pressley etc. An inexperienced manager is what has got us in this mess in the first place! None of them has done anything special in their management careers.

 

If Cathro does end up going, we need to bring in someone with experience and George burley would be ideal. Had us playing the way we want us to play now.

We don't have the readies for Burley, both salary-wise and for the transfer market. If you want Burley, you'll need to find us another multi-millionaire sugar daddy first. People suggesting Ross, Hartley and Pressley are at least being realistic.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Some absolute slavers on here... seriously look at the names mentioned above....

 

Folk need to hold onto their Ys a bit

It took real brains to come up with your name mate.

 

Some imagination you dingbat.

[Morgan]

I don't particularly think he's anything special i8,we wouldn't have got some players we have without him as Cathro is as charming as fart in the mouth.

Fart in the mouth

[Lucille's Thirsty]

100% honest, I have never even heard him speak.

That his problem he reminds me of the sort of social anxieties that some people have.

 

Zero charm of charisma.

[red]

Some absolute slavers on here... seriously look at the names mentioned above....

 

Folk need to hold onto their Ys a bit

Agreed! O'Neil the only sensible one and no way he would take it!

[Rocky jamboa]

We don't have the readies for Burley, both salary-wise and for the transfer market. If you want Burley, you'll need to find us another multi-millionaire sugar daddy first. People suggesting Ross, Hartley and Pressley are at least being realistic.

He's without a club just now so can't see him being out of our price range

[Seymour M Hersh]

He's without a club just now so can't see him being out of our price range

 

When was the last time he managed a club?

[Bazzas right boot]

Good to see the

"Clean slate" , "fresh begining" , "first round of fixtures", "get his own team", "give him time" brigade are true to Thier word.....

[Rocky jamboa]

When was the last time he managed a club?

Maybe that would go in our favour

[Mars plastic]

Good to see the

"Clean slate" , "fresh begining" , "first round of fixtures", "get his own team", "give him time" brigade are true to Thier word.....

Probably something to do with the fact things are exactly the same as last season but with a different set of players.

[Bazzas right boot]

Probably something to do with the fact things are exactly the same as last season but with a different set of players.

Aye, and three games in July.

[kingantti1874]

Probably something to do with the fact things are exactly the same as last season but with a different set of players.

As some predicted.. Because the players last season were not the root cause.. They were not the worst players in this league. Cathro however is the worst manager in the league..

[Mars plastic]

Aye, and three games in July.

Can you honestly see him turning it around likes?

[Five to One]

I can't understand why people are putting names forward like Jack Ross, Hartley, Pressley etc. An inexperienced manager is what has got us in this mess in the first place! None of them has done anything special in their management careers.

 

If Cathro does end up going, we need to bring in someone with experience and George burley would be ideal. Had us playing the way we want us to play now.

Would love this to happen, but can't see it. 

 

But come back George. Finish what you started. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I can't understand why people are putting names forward like Jack Ross, Hartley, Pressley etc. An inexperienced manager is what has got us in this mess in the first place! None of them has done anything special in their management careers.

 

If Cathro does end up going, we need to bring in someone with experience and George burley would be ideal. Had us playing the way we want us to play now.

Why are you lumping Jack Ross a man with 6 months experience with Hartley and Pressley who both have 5+ years management experience

[Bazzas right boot]

Can you honestly see him turning it around likes?

Less confident. We must win on Saturday.

 

That buys the first round of fixtures.

 

Still hoping things click and it comes together. A new gk and pace/ drive from the middle will help.

 

More hope than confidence now, but with an important game on Saturday, this should be our priority not plucking names out of a hat for a replacement like we did ever other day last season.

 

Just a bit depressing on here that after saying folk would give him a chance, 3 games in they are wanting him sacked.

 

Knee jerk doesn't quite cover it.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Talk of George Burley is absolutely bizarre aswell, he has been out of the game for about 5 years after fading into obscurity, sacked by Limassol in Cyprus

[Ivan Drago]

As some predicted.. Because the players last season were not the root cause.. They were not the worst players in this league. Cathro however is the worst manager in the league..

The club pulled off a master stroke last season by managing to convince many fans that the problem was the January recruitment. The reality is we could sign anyone and we'd still be awful as we have a terrible manager.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

As some predicted.. Because the players last season were not the root cause.. They were not the worst players in this league. Cathro however is the worst manager in the league..

It's obvious. It was obvious then and it's even more obvious now. They have nothing. No excuses, no logical reasons of why we should keep him.

[sandylejambo]

The only reasons I can see for not sacking Cathro are, Boyde and Cariggan would be right, Levien would be wrong,,,,,,,,, that's it, sorry, tried to get to, improvement, injuries and bad luck, but no, not them.

[Boris]

Irrational plan-lacking any sense of logic. Ajax are a Dutch football team. There are massive,substantial cultural and sporting differences between Scottish and Dutch football which dictate what will work and what will not work.

 

This is the type of experiment which should only ever be attempted at newer experimental lower league sides like Spartans for example; who do indeed actually have an admirable inclusive pyramid structure team structure in place.

 

To conduct an experiment like this at a premier league team with so much to lose is reckless in the extreme.

 

This "vision" was undermined the day Cathro was appointed. Weren't we supposed to appoint from within?? Wasn't John Daly next in line??

 

No what the vision really means is the FOH can get away with appointing cheap as chips nobodies with no prior track record of managing at a high level all under the guise of this grand Vision of leveins which has already shown no continuity whatsoever in failing to appoint from within.

 

Enough of this BS, the fans demand an experienced manager next. If you can't afford it you can save money on the DOFs salary and tell him to GTF.

 

IIRC, Cathro was to be appointed as a coach under Neilson's tenure, but opted for the Spanish/Portuguese route instead?  In other words, he was very much in the radar and thought of as Neilson's heir apparent.  

 

With the greatest respect, I'm don't think you understand what the vision is.  By creating a dynastic coaching system you end up with continuity from the u-8's to the first team.  New head coach and things continue in the same vein, with obvious changes here and there, but continuity is the key especially via the academy and producing your own talent.

 

Appointing a new manager from outwith every two or three seasons is kind of boom and bust - new manager, new squad, transfer fees for his players etc etc  It's not really that sustainable a model but may (may!) produce a cup run, even a cup win.  What Hearts are trying to do at the moment is lay the foundations of something bigger that in theory should cement Hearts in the top three (even top two) clubs in the country.  Thus allowing a platform to challebnge on all fronts.  That's how I see it at least.  Again, not saying that it is particularly working at the moment, and Cathro may not be the answer as Head Coach, but I can't help but feel his input in coaching will benefit our players coming through the academy.

 

Nailed.   This is Levein's utopia, but it simply will not work and his ego will not allow him to admit that he might just be wrong.

 

The style of play under both Neilson and Cathro was/is brutal most of the time, although at least Robbie managed to get the players to perform. I had hoped the style of play would change under Cathro playing more on the front foot and dynamic, but it's worse.

 

Why won't it work?

 

Agree regards style of play, we need to be more aggressive and on the front foot - at times you can actually see this.  Unfortunately it's only in fits and starts.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Talk of George Burley is absolutely bizarre aswell, he has been out of the game for about 5 years after fading into obscurity, sacked by Limassol in Cyprus

With all the time to reflect on our tremendous start that season, I wonder how much of it was actually down to Burley or was it the players he was given to work with. I am of the opinion now that any half decent boss ( not IC obviously ) would have got a similar performance from probably the best squad of players we had since the 50s. Burley's record since suggests he got lucky.

[Fort Vallance]

Would love this to happen, but can't see it. 

 

But come back George. Finish what you started.

 

Not wanting to pour cold water on it. But he had a dozen games with a vastly superior / expensive squad of players than we have now. And I could be wrong but I can't think of anything impressive he's done since he left us.

[jr ewing]

IIRC, Cathro was to be appointed as a coach under Neilson's tenure, but opted for the Spanish/Portuguese route instead?  In other words, he was very much in the radar and thought of as Neilson's heir apparent.  

 

With the greatest respect, I'm don't think you understand what the vision is.  By creating a dynastic coaching system you end up with continuity from the u-8's to the first team.  New head coach and things continue in the same vein, with obvious changes here and there, but continuity is the key especially via the academy and producing your own talent.

 

Appointing a new manager from outwith every two or three seasons is kind of boom and bust - new manager, new squad, transfer fees for his players etc etc  It's not really that sustainable a model but may (may!) produce a cup run, even a cup win.  What Hearts are trying to do at the moment is lay the foundations of something bigger that in theory should cement Hearts in the top three (even top two) clubs in the country.  Thus allowing a platform to challebnge on all fronts.  That's how I see it at least.  Again, not saying that it is particularly working at the moment, and Cathro may not be the answer as Head Coach, but I can't help but feel his input in coaching will benefit our players coming through the academy.

 It is only a dynasty if people stay and they obviously don't.

 

Why won't it work?

 

Agree regards style of play, we need to be more aggressive and on the front foot - at times you can actually see this.  Unfortunately it's only in fits and starts.

[jr ewing]

The "dynasty system" only works if people stay which they obviously aren't.

[gorgieheart]

It took real brains to come up with your name mate.

 

Some imagination you dingbat.

 

Meaning what precisely ?  

 

Name calling....cute !

[gorgieheart]

It wasn't a rumour though. You made it up. You've a cheek to call anyone a slaver is all I'm saying.

 

I See, sorry about that !

 

I'll remember to message you for permission before i join the "spirit" of a thread shall i ? 

 

Get the chipm off your shoulder , take a breath , calm !!

[Boris]

The "dynasty system" only works if people stay which they obviously aren't.

 

I understand more that if someone leaves there is a natural replacement to step up.  No one lives forever!

[ericb]

But per the dynasty system, Cathro was not next in line?

[Rudy T]

IIRC, Cathro was to be appointed as a coach under Neilson's tenure, but opted for the Spanish/Portuguese route instead? In other words, he was very much in the radar and thought of as Neilson's heir apparent.

 

With the greatest respect, I'm don't think you understand what the vision is. By creating a dynastic coaching system you end up with continuity from the u-8's to the first team. New head coach and things continue in the same vein, with obvious changes here and there, but continuity is the key especially via the academy and producing your own talent.

 

Appointing a new manager from outwith every two or three seasons is kind of boom and bust - new manager, new squad, transfer fees for his players etc etc It's not really that sustainable a model but may (may!) produce a cup run, even a cup win. What Hearts are trying to do at the moment is lay the foundations of something bigger that in theory should cement Hearts in the top three (even top two) clubs in the country. Thus allowing a platform to challebnge on all fronts. That's how I see it at least. Again, not saying that it is particularly working at the moment, and Cathro may not be the answer as Head Coach, but I can't help but feel his input in coaching will benefit our players coming through the academy.

 

 

Why won't it work?

 

Agree regards style of play, we need to be more aggressive and on the front foot - at times you can actually see this. Unfortunately it's only in fits and starts.

I think the theory is great but for me it has to start with someone successful and experienced to start the process. That manager then takes each "next manager/head coach" as his assistant and the guy learns day to day and match by match from his mentor.

 

We started with Neilson and Crawford with the experienced guy upstairs. While Neilson and Crawford did well when they left the continuity was lost at the first change over period.

 

For Cathro to come in Levein should've taken to the dug out until the end of the season with Cathro and MacPhee working along side him. We would've got to this season and let Cathro loose on the role and the process begins...

 

I still think we can rectify this by appointing a Peter Houston type and either Cathro / MacPhee or Daly as the next head coach working beside him, if CL isn't prepared to get the tracksuit back on.

 

There also needs to be a continuity in playing staff. That is underpinned by the academy, the problem with that is the academy is probably 2 years from fully supporting the model. That's not anyone's fault who is currently at the club, the initial signs are encouraging and CL should be praised for the work he's done there.

 

So in theory it's a brilliant model but we aren't ready for it so for me it makes perfect sense to call that out now get in the experience for two seasons then promote the coach who will have the academy ready and at his disposal and we should have an established top 4 team for the coach to guide.

 

If we continue to stumble along the club will suffer financially and the model becomes more difficult to implement.

[smiler]

No one lives forever!

Highlander did.

[Boris]

But per the dynasty system, Cathro was not next in line?

 

I think he was, albeit not initially employed by us.

 

I think the theory is great but for me it has to start with someone successful and experienced to start the process. That manager then takes each "next manager/head coach" as his assistant and the guy learns day to day and match by match from his mentor.

 

We started with Neilson and Crawford with the experienced guy upstairs. While Neilson and Crawford did well when they left the continuity was lost at the first change over period.

 

For Cathro to come in Levein should've taken to the dug out until the end of the season with Cathro and MacPhee working along side him. We would've got to this season and let Cathro loose on the role and the process begins...

 

I still think we can rectify this by appointing a Peter Houston type and either Cathro / MacPhee or Daly as the next head coach working beside him, if CL isn't prepared to get the tracksuit back on.

 

There also needs to be a continuity in playing staff. That is underpinned by the academy, the problem with that is the academy is probably 2 years from fully supporting the model. That's not anyone's fault who is currently at the club, the initial signs are encouraging and CL should be praised for the work he's done there.

 

So in theory it's a brilliant model but we aren't ready for it so for me it makes perfect sense to call that out now get in the experience for two seasons then promote the coach who will have the academy ready and at his disposal and we should have an established top 4 team for the coach to guide.

 

If we continue to stumble along the club will suffer financially and the model becomes more difficult to implement.

 

I agree with what you say there.

[Boris]

Highlander did.

 

[OldGuard]

For various reasons, I've not been at many games over the past few years, but now that things have changed for me, this year I've been to Raith at home, Hibs at home, East Fife on Saturday and up to Peterhead on Tuesday.  I've also got a season ticket for myself and my daughter, and we are both pretty excited about the coming season.  Why all this preamble? Well, I just want to be clear that I've not seen anything like as much of the team than most posters here, and I kinda felt a full disclosure was necessary before I offer my views.

 

That said, I was actually pretty impressed that we got Cathro in the first place, and the indicators looked good. He brought in some new faces, changed the approach and has faced a number of injury challenges since he arrived.

 

If we are honest with ourselves, no-one wanted to see him fail, and we hoped that given a bit of time, his methods would bear fruit.  On the evidence that I have seen this year, however, they haven't.

 

Does the squad have the capacity to be a SPFL top 3 team? Not right now it doesn't, but that isn't because of a lack of skill or depth alone. 

 

It is, in my opinion, because of attitude and morale. Or, more simply put, the squad are not responding to Cathro - I don't believe that he has the necessary interpersonal skills to motivate a squad at this level.  Now you could argue that his method is to use Austin for this part, but again, using the warm up against Peterhead as an example, there was no joy amongst the players. They were flat. There was no spirit, no camaraderie, no buzz. MacPhee didn't seem to be able to do anything to change this.

 

The blame for this dip in spirit has to end up with Cathro. It's his job to inspire the players to stay switched on, to play with determination and pride, and sadly this is where I believe he is failing the most.

 

Looking forward, I don't think Cathro is going to be around much longer, and I don't have any names to proffer as a replacement. But whoever it is needs to have a bit of character about them to lift this squad, otherwise I fear that players will come and go, but ultimately, as many have already said about Hearts right now, there seems to be an acceptance of mediocrity, and that's a pretty bleak state of affairs. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Talk of George Burley is absolutely bizarre aswell, he has been out of the game for about 5 years after fading into obscurity, sacked by Limassol in Cyprus

 

I'm glad someone knew what happened to him when I asked. Agree wouldn't touch him now. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

The only reasons I can see for not sacking Cathro are, Boyde and Cariggan would be right, Levien would be wrong,,,,,,,,, that's it, sorry, tried to get to, improvement, injuries and bad luck, but no, not them.

 

Who are these people? We must be told!! 

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Meaning what precisely ?

 

Name calling....cute !

It was a joke mate.

 

Perhaps I should've put just to be sure.

[VivaObua]

In Cathro we trust.

[Maiden Gorgie]

In Cathro we trust.

This. We have to have a wee bit patience here. If we are struggling come Xmas then we review the situation. It might still come good

[deejtee]

IIRC, Cathro was to be appointed as a coach under Neilson's tenure, but opted for the Spanish/Portuguese route instead?  In other words, he was very much in the radar and thought of as Neilson's heir apparent.  

 

With the greatest respect, I'm don't think you understand what the vision is.  By creating a dynastic coaching system you end up with continuity from the u-8's to the first team.  New head coach and things continue in the same vein, with obvious changes here and there, but continuity is the key especially via the academy and producing your own talent.

 

Appointing a new manager from outwith every two or three seasons is kind of boom and bust - new manager, new squad, transfer fees for his players etc etc  It's not really that sustainable a model but may (may!) produce a cup run, even a cup win.  What Hearts are trying to do at the moment is lay the foundations of something bigger that in theory should cement Hearts in the top three (even top two) clubs in the country.  Thus allowing a platform to challebnge on all fronts.  That's how I see it at least.  Again, not saying that it is particularly working at the moment, and Cathro may not be the answer as Head Coach, but I can't help but feel his input in coaching will benefit our players coming through the academy.

 

 

Why won't it work?

 

Agree regards style of play, we need to be more aggressive and on the front foot - at times you can actually see this.  Unfortunately it's only in fits and starts.

With the greatest respect???Mmm. I think everyone sees the thinking behind levein's model but we don't all happen to agree. Football is always evolving. It is good to invest in the academy but it is no guarantee of success and it seems to many of us we would rather have a head coach with experience, flexibility and motivational qualities. The regular quotes by some on here that think they (and a small number of others) understand Cathro and patience will see us conquer all are becoming more cringeworthy with every passing inept performance.

[wavydavy]

IIRC, Cathro was to be appointed as a coach under Neilson's tenure, but opted for the Spanish/Portuguese route instead?  In other words, he was very much in the radar and thought of as Neilson's heir apparent.  

 

With the greatest respect, I'm don't think you understand what the vision is.  By creating a dynastic coaching system you end up with continuity from the u-8's to the first team.  New head coach and things continue in the same vein, with obvious changes here and there, but continuity is the key especially via the academy and producing your own talent.

 

Appointing a new manager from outwith every two or three seasons is kind of boom and bust - new manager, new squad, transfer fees for his players etc etc  It's not really that sustainable a model but may (may!) produce a cup run, even a cup win.  What Hearts are trying to do at the moment is lay the foundations of something bigger that in theory should cement Hearts in the top three (even top two) clubs in the country.  Thus allowing a platform to challebnge on all fronts.  That's how I see it at least.  Again, not saying that it is particularly working at the moment, and Cathro may not be the answer as Head Coach, but I can't help but feel his input in coaching will benefit our players coming through the academy.

 

 

Why won't it work?

 

Agree regards style of play, we need to be more aggressive and on the front foot - at times you can actually see this.  Unfortunately it's only in fits and starts.

 

So are the Board not competent enough to find a Coach that fits in with all the criteria you highlight for say a two year period to allow the home bred coaches to watch and learn?

[OmiyaHearts]

This. We have to have a wee bit patience here. If we are struggling come Xmas then we review the situation. It might still come good

So that's two seasons wasted? He should have walked after ast seasons fiasco and also offered resignation after Peterhead.

 

No point showing patience when the outcome seems blindingly obvious.

[Maiden Gorgie]

So that's two seasons wasted? He should have walked after ast seasons fiasco and also offered resignation after Peterhead.

 

No point showing patience when the outcome seems blindingly obvious.

Still think we could miss a trick letting him go. Maybe far too optimistic about this but hopefully Peterhead was a one off. We will soon see I guess

[Billybuffjaw]

This. We have to have a wee bit patience here. If we are struggling come Xmas then we review the situation. It might still come good

I agree mate, as ,much as the Peterhead loss was hard to take we can and will win this group imo and when we're lining up against Ayr Utd in the last 16 It'll all be forgotten about.

 

What we have to do is make a strong start in the League and that we're playing Celtic away makes it tough I think it might actually work in our favour. The boys will be well up for it and there'll be no lack of fight in that game. I think a draw is well capable and we can kick on from there.

[deejtee]

Still think we could miss a trick letting him go. Maybe far too optimistic about this but hopefully Peterhead was a one off. We will soon see I guess

That is what is at the back of our minds when the club ditches a young player and it very occasionally happens.

[kingantti1874]

This. We have to have a wee bit patience here. If we are struggling come Xmas then we review the situation. It might still come good

Been patient.. Times up