WHAT DID THEY HAVE ?

[hibsarepants]

Up at Pittodrie , and most of he Aberdeen fans couldnt believe how meek and inept we were. So what did they have that  we didn't:

 

- An experienced manager who was in control of the team and its performance

- A backbone of British players (we had 4 who started)

 

We need to address these 2 fundamental issues to stop this inexorable slide.   

[amadjambo]

Aberdeen had pace, skill, power, and a clear game plan of how to play. That game plan was exactly the same as it always is against us, press high up the park, attack down the wings, get quality crosses into the box and have number in there to attack the ball.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

The players are not quick-minded enough for combating a pressing game; we need to pass quick & keep the ball; they just hot potato it & try a low percentage aerial ball

 

 

 

Good positioning is also needed; wasn't very good

 

 

 

_

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

[August Landmesser]

'British players'

 

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[luckydug]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

 

So patient they don't bother turning up.

Yesterday's crowd was about their biggest non OF gate of the season.

Our fans have been patient and loyal and are getting rewarded with a team that don't appear to be even trying.

This can't be allowed to go on fans will put up with a lot but not lack of effort.

[rick witter]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

They also have a team full of players who want to win the game. Get each other fired up to go into tackles and win the ball back. Have urgency over throw ins and free kicks to keep the pressure on. Everything we don't do and no amount of time with this group or manager is going to make Hearts like that. No leadership

[Rudolf's Mate]

More shocked the OP needs to ask that question tbh. First and foremost they've got a settled team. And that's just for starters.

[HillmanHearts]

Character, desire, belief.

[Nookie Bear]

Up at Pittodrie , and most of he Aberdeen fans couldnt believe how meek and inept we were. So what did they have that  we didn't:

 

- An experienced manager who was in control of the team and its performance

- A backbone of British players (we had 4 who started)

 

We need to address these 2 fundamental issues to stop this inexorable slide.

 

We do not need "British players", we need players who are able to perform in the world of SPL, where you get no time on the ball and it is played at a quick, aggressive, pace.

 

That's what McInnes has recruited.

 

It MIGHT be the case that a British players 'get' it more than foreigners, but a de net players knows what is required and works hard anyway, regardless of nationality.

[Jambof3tornado]

They had 11 players playing as a team.

 

We currently have 11 individuals.

 

They had no passengers. We had several (including scottish lads).

 

They had finishers. We had Sam missing a great opportunity to put us ahead.

 

They had superior workrate. We had boys walking when they should have been sprinting.

 

They had 2 centrebacks who when they get the ball pass it to ball players. We had Avlonitis who was given a hospital pass from his fellow greek and subsequently sold Hamilton a short pass.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

They also have a team full of players who want to win the game. Get each other fired up to go into tackles and win the ball back. Have urgency over throw ins and free kicks to keep the pressure on. Everything we don't do and no amount of time with this group or manager is going to make Hearts like that. No leadership

And that didn't happen in 3 months for McInnes

[Jambo 4 Ever]

'British players'

 

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

I happen to agree 100% with him

[August Landmesser]

I happen to agree 100% with him

That isn't as ringing an endorsement of his opinion as you might think.

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[Lincon Premier]

The stand out for me was at throw in's. There was a total lack of movement and no-one wanted the ball. Standing around flat footed with no intention of taking a pass.

[Martin_T]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

There's very little evidence of team building at Hearts. If anyone is guilty of impatience it's our 'footballing department' who have presided over a ludicrous turnover of players.

[August Landmesser]

The stand out for me was at throw in's. There was a total lack of movement and no-one wanted the ball. Standing around flat footed with no intention of taking a pass.

We were like that at times in the Championship season too, but we got away with it then

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[rick witter]

And that didn't happen in 3 months for McInnes

 

It didn't happen in 3 months no. I'm not sure of exact numbers but I could bet you the amount of players Aberdeen have had in and out in the same time as the start of our championship season is way less than we have had.

We don't seem to be building anything. Just clearing out every year and signing far to many players and actually achieving worse results and performances because of it. I think that's a combination of the past and current manager and the director of football.

[Guest]

A model that is proven to work. That's not to take away from our current model - in theory it looks and sounds good.

 

What they don't have is Levein, it's only an opinion but I cannot see how things can start to change with him at the club in his current position. Questions need asked of why and how he's got himself into a position with no accountability. What he's said he's impletementing sounds to good to be true and the first team results and performances currently on show are surely evidence that the model either needs tweaked massively, changed to suit either one of the players or the head coach/ manager or gotten rid of altogether.

 

If we had an established team of players to handover each time the head coach changes then all that needs done is the head coach to be trained to become a manager. If we had an established manager then they would likely be building an established team of players.

 

What we have just now is a squad needing constantly overhauled and being passed onto the next head coach (who may have little or no experience) to deal with such situations. The counter argument is that Robbie Neilson was successful, maybe he was just ready for the step up or even the squad he inherited had enough players that had gelled together to work for each other and wanted to give a good showing of themselves.

 

I wonder how Levein would react if the other board directors decided to appoint another DoF, someone to be in charge of first team affairs and leaving him to get on with the youth academy. He's trying to do too much, all credit to him for that, but to be in charge of everything football related is clearly too much for him and it's no wonder he's overlooking some details (the signings we've endured, the inexperience of managing a group of players who haven't played as a team, the style of play being adhered to even if it's destroying/ stifling the players other talents, the possible confusion from the players of who they're accountable to).

 

Our next home game will likely see us win emphatically and everyone again gushing over how amazing everything is and how Levein is a great mastermind and Cathro is some amazing wizzkid with a laptop, etc, etc.

 

It seems we're becoming a support divided. Those who can see no wrong in Levein, then those who are outright against him, we also have people going from former to latter the more things go on it seems. Although normally in the latter group I do think he has a lot to offer. The problem is that in his current capacity it's not what we're getting.

 

Apologies about the short story. Just my take on things tbh.

[William H. Bonney]

11 better players. Man for man.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

There's very little evidence of team building at Hearts. If anyone is guilty of impatience it's our 'footballing department' who have presided over a ludicrous turnover of players.

I agree with that absolutely

[1971fozzy]

They have a manager that knows what the hell he is doing for starters.

They are also the opposite of everything we are on the pitch at the moment. We can't even give them a game at Tynecastle so on reflection there was no chance up there.

[OmiyaHearts]

They have a manager who has belief, fight, experience and authority. Strengths he can pass on and instil in the players.

 

Our coach has none of those attributes and needs training during a match.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

It didn't happen in 3 months no. I'm not sure of exact numbers but I could bet you the amount of players Aberdeen have had in and out in the same time as the start of our championship season is way less than we have had.

We don't seem to be building anything. Just clearing out every year and signing far to many players and actually achieving worse results and performances because of it. I think that's a combination of the past and current manager and the director of football.

And I agree with this too.

 

So to change wholesale again would possibly not be great.

 

There are different things going on though. One of the reasons I think we are poor as we are trying to play perfect football. BADLY.

 

Just posted on another thread this is the time of year for winning ugly. Horses for courses Doddy used to say. Our doesn't like to play the game at 90mph , we need to find a horse that does

[BervieJambo]

A 5 year plan and patience...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spencer]

I meant to add desire, spirit, will to win etc to my previous post.

 

They are prerequisites.

McInnes said afterwards that Hearts couldn't match them for work rate. That's a damming indictment tbh.

 

It's clear that Lennon and McInnes have known that they'd be able to beat us by simply working harder

 

Our players and management should be ashamed of that.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

That isn't as ringing an endorsement of his opinion as you might think.

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

Why not?

[Martin_T]

McInnes said afterwards that Hearts couldn't match them for work rate. That's a damming indictment tbh.

 

It's clear that Lennon and McInnes have known that they'd be able to beat us by simply working harder

 

Our players and management should be ashamed of that.

Aberdeen, Hibs and St Johnstone all have our number currently. What do those 3 team's have in common? A manager and a core of players who know the Scottish game.

 

We've tried to be far too smart for our own good with our recruitment strategy for some time now. We should have retained most of the Championship winning squad and built on it incrementally. Instead we've hit the nuclear button in pretty much every transfer window since.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Aberdeen, Hibs and St Johnstone all have our number currently. What do those 3 team's have in common? A manager and a core of players who know the Scottish game.

 

We've tried to be far too smart for our own good with our recruitment strategy for some time now. We should have retained most of the Championship winning squad and built on it incrementally. Instead we've hit the nuclear button in pretty much every transfer window since.

I think the European policy was an attempt to get big soon.

They will argue 3rd last year has allowed the club to progress and build a stand which in turn will generate revenue all year.

 

Football can turn quickly, but Mrs Budge will need to ensure that there are less mistakes on the football side of things to maintain the interest.

[wavydavy]

'British players'

 

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

 

You can cover your face all you like but it has shown in our league that whether fans like it or not you need to have an understanding on how the Scottish mentality and type of game the fans want to see is played.

 

We are not able to afford the type of "foreign" players that grace the English leagues and they are the most skilled and their footballing ability gets them through games but it is totally different in Scotland.

 

It's played at a much higher tempo with a lot more physicality and the players best suited to that style of play are British Players.

 

St Johnstone have on paper a team of "British" players that would probably not get a game for us but they have just overtaken us into fourth in the league and have a substantially lower wage budget than us so how do they do it.

 

I will tell you what it's because they have an experienced Manager who has a work ethic based on working hard for each other as a team and they all know and understand what their role is in the team and most of all they have fight and a will to win which can make up for a lot that more skillful players lack.

[adayinmay]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

Great post.

[Thought Police]

They are the finished article. They will not get any better than they are now.

[jambali]

Aberdeen had pace, skill, power, and a clear game plan of how to play. That game plan was exactly the same as it always is against us, press high up the park, attack down the wings, get quality crosses into the box and have number in there to attack the ball.

Ah! Modern football!!

[Anderson5]

And that didn't happen in 3 months for McInnes

Aberdeen Record:

09/10 - 9th

10/11 - 9th

11/12 - 9th

12/13 - 8th

*McInnes appointed*

13/14 - 3rd, League Cup Win, semi final Scottish Cup

14/15 - 2nd, league cup semi final

15/16 - 2nd

16/17 - 2nd?, league cup final, Scottish cup?

 

That seems a pretty quick turnaround of the club to me. Of course what McInnes has done differently is he has never really overhauled the squad, just added 1-2 players to the starting XI each year. Which means the real improvement under McInnes has to have been through coaching. Something we were told was Cathro's main strength.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Aberdeen Record:

09/10 - 9th

10/11 - 9th

11/12 - 9th

12/13 - 8th

*McInnes appointed*

13/14 - 3rd, League Cup Win, semi final Scottish Cup

14/15 - 2nd, league cup semi final

15/16 - 2nd

16/17 - 2nd?, league cup final, Scottish cup?

 

That seems a pretty quick turnaround of the club to me. Of course what McInnes has done differently is he has never really overhauled the squad, just added 1-2 players to the starting XI each year. Which means the real improvement under McInnes has to have been through coaching. Something we were told was Cathro's main strength.

Motherwell beat them to 2nd in 13/14 with a faster start to that season probably another 2nd.

The dynamic of Scottish Football through the period is important too.

3 months just is not enough time for me to write anyone off

[RobbofordGHC]

A 5 year plan and patience...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are nearing the end of year 3 of the 5 year plan, we are worse now than at the start of year one

[TurboT]

We got rid of Augustyn because he wasn't good enough, he knew how to put in 100% and fight. We then got rid of Rossi who I'd put in the same bracket. Paterson is also out and thats three players who were up for the Battle no longer there.

 

I don't think it's British players we need, but players that understand in Scottish football you need to win the battle first.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[August Landmesser]

Why not?

Given your track record on here, if I ever expressed an opinion that you popped up in support of, I'd pretty swiftly reassess my opinion.

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[August Landmesser]

You can cover your face all you like but it has shown in our league that whether fans like it or not you need to have an understanding on how the Scottish mentality and type of game the fans want to see is played.

 

We are not able to afford the type of "foreign" players that grace the English leagues and they are the most skilled and their footballing ability gets them through games but it is totally different in Scotland.

 

It's played at a much higher tempo with a lot more physicality and the players best suited to that style of play are British Players.

 

St Johnstone have on paper a team of "British" players that would probably not get a game for us but they have just overtaken us into fourth in the league and have a substantially lower wage budget than us so how do they do it.

 

I will tell you what it's because they have an experienced Manager who has a work ethic based on working hard for each other as a team and they all know and understand what their role is in the team and most of all they have fight and a will to win which can make up for a lot that more skillful players lack.

Joey Barton's a British player. Tore this league up for arsepaper so he did...

 

 

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[August Landmesser]

We got rid of Augustyn because he wasn't good enough, he knew how to put in 100% and fight. We then got rid of Rossi who I'd put in the same bracket. Paterson is also out and thats three players who were up for the Battle no longer there.

 

I don't think it's British players we need, but players that understand in Scottish football you need to win the battle first.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. Players with battle and bottle. These are not exclusively 'British' qualities.

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

[VALDOS]

Players who are interested in what the manager explains to them, hunger and desire to win a game and not just be pissing about mid table.

[Johnny Two Pies]

Ultimately good players win matches, and in the likes of Logan, Shinnie (who should be in the Scotland squad), McGinn and especially Hayes, Aberdeen have some good players at this level. In addition they are well drilled ('routined' if you will), organised, with every player knowing what his job is and going out and doing it. Also a good team spirit, they were sent out to close us down from the first and did that, with quite a few of their players clearly fired up for the game (Shinnie certainly was). We don't have any of that at the moment.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Ultimately good players win matches, and in the likes of Logan, Shinnie (who should be in the Scotland squad), McGinn and especially Hayes, Aberdeen have some good players at this level. In addition the are well drilled ('routined' if you will), organised, with ever player knowing what is job is and going out and doing it. Also a good team spirit, they were sent out to close us down from the first and did that, with quite a few of their players clearly fired up for the game (Shinnie certainly was). We don't have any of that at the moment.

Team spirit as you say, but you only get that when you settle the team

[Harry Potter]

A defence and forwards that can take chances.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Given your track record on here, if I ever expressed an opinion that you popped up in support of, I'd pretty swiftly reassess my opinion.

 

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

Nothing wrong with my track record - just internet bullies who don't always like what I say but many people agree with what I say too

[IveSeenTheLight]

Aberdeen Record:

09/10 - 9th

10/11 - 9th

11/12 - 9th

12/13 - 8th

*McInnes appointed*

13/14 - 3rd, League Cup Win, semi final Scottish Cup

14/15 - 2nd, league cup semi final

15/16 - 2nd

16/17 - 2nd?, league cup final, Scottish cup?

That seems a pretty quick turnaround of the club to me. Of course what McInnes has done differently is he has never really overhauled the squad, just added 1-2 players to the starting XI each year. Which means the real improvement under McInnes has to have been through coaching. Something we were told was Cathro's main strength.

Craig Brown had started the stability and also recruited our main attackers in Hayes and McGinn.

So he had a huge part to play in McInness`s stable team.

 

From Craig Browns stint, we still play:-

Considine

Reynolds

Hayes

McGinn

Jack

Pawlett (ok mainly as sub and leaving)

 

Biggest player improvement this year is our goalkeeper.

[kingantti1874]

Mcinnes had time to build a team and a patient owner. And patient fans, that's what they have

He improved them immediately when he started..

[mr fox]

No DOF

[Morgan]

I read your name as 'Hibs parents' !

 

Sorry.

 

[socrates82]

Aberdeen Record:

09/10 - 9th

10/11 - 9th

11/12 - 9th

12/13 - 8th

*McInnes appointed*

13/14 - 3rd, League Cup Win, semi final Scottish Cup

14/15 - 2nd, league cup semi final

15/16 - 2nd

16/17 - 2nd?, league cup final, Scottish cup?

 

That seems a pretty quick turnaround of the club to me. Of course what McInnes has done differently is he has never really overhauled the squad, just added 1-2 players to the starting XI each year. Which means the real improvement under McInnes has to have been through coaching. Something we were told was Cathro's main strength.

McInnes record there coincides with us, rangers and hibs being either severely weakened or in another league. He's had a free run and has arguably under-achieved.