Venomous Hatred

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Transparency. Where is it. We were promised it. Why is Levein locked away in his bunker?

 

I am all up for Cathro, I want to see him successful, did his boss honestly believe ripping the team up mid season would work.

 

I am no expert but it was plain to see this would backfire.

 

What is the plan. What are the targets, what is acceptable, what is unacceptable.

 

I don't know. We have done so much to allow these people have their privileged position, they promised transparency, now is the time to keep not just their fans but their stakeholders informed and engaged

[Walter Bishop]

 If/when Cathro goes and a new man comes in and absolutely nothing changes footballing wise then we can be sure that the problem lies with Craig Levein. 

 

How long this takes remains to be seen but I am deeply worried at the direction we are going and have been for 18 months now. I fail to see how the 5 year plan is coming good and would argue that you cannot go backwards for this length of time and still expect people to believe that it will all come good at the end of the 5 years "just trust me".

 

 If/when Cathro goes and a new man comes in and absolutely nothing changes footballing wise then we can be sure that the problem lies with Craig Levein. 

 

How long this takes remains to be seen but I am deeply worried at the direction we are going and have been for 18 months now. I fail to see how the 5 year plan is coming good and would argue that you cannot go backwards for this length of time and still expect people to believe that it will all come good at the end of the 5 years "just trust me".

Why wait for a 3rd manager to come in? Problems are the exact same now as they were under Robbie. Same formation, same shape, trying to play central midfielders wide, no pace, no width etc etc Surely you dont think these are all a coincidence?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Listen Geoff i have asked you several questions and you have sidestepped every one and come up with uneducated guff so it is very understandable you have racked up the many thousands of posts you have spouting keek after keek and sidestepping questions when you are put on the spot , Now i happen to be very passionate about my team and i attend week after week and this is how i see it , of the field we have done fantastic and things are really starting to shape up and i commend and thank everyone for there wonderful work with a massive thanks to Ann Budge , However the problem i have got and many others is on the field , Now over the last 2 years the warning signs have been there and you can dismiss it at your pearl but make no mistake there are problems , For starters for a clubs fans to back them with there support home and away like they do has been nothing short of incredible , For these same fans to dig deep and give there FOH subs month after month is another incredible achievement , infact i would say we have got the most loyal fans in Scotland if not Britain and dismiss that at your pearl as well Geoff , Now when you add all this together i would ask are these fans being served up value for money ? are they getting a fair return when you look at what they are doing for the club ? I would say they are being short changed and my self included so is it any wonder my self and others are going to question these situations we now sit in and get to the bottom of it ? i would say given all the factors we have every right and i for one will not change my views or opinion on it till someone is held accountable and given what has went on over the last 2 year it has been nothing short of a total shambles . HHGH . ....... Hearts today , Hearts tomorrow , Hearts forever . PS . I will ask you again Geoff and given your such strong defence of our DOF ....... WHO do we blame ......

I've made no "defence" of Craig Levein. All I've pointed out is that some people have real personal vendettas against him. I believe his position should be under scrutiny as the transfer policy and contracts given have been terrible in the last 12-18 months. I don't hold him accountable for results and performances. If you do, you bash on but the idea that Neilson and Cathro would be better without Levein there is daft.

 

PS If you want me to answer questions it does help to use a question mark

 

PPS I don't see any point in making any change right now. It's why Cathro and Levein should be judged at the end of this season

 

PPPS Can you answer my question now please?

[Dagger Is Back]

People need to calm down. We have a makeshift team and it was always a long shot that we would achieve anything this season. Cathro needs until next January and hopefully some of our long-term targets become available in the close season.

Agree. However, we're a makeshift team because of a deeply flawed recruitment policy championed by our DOF and signed off by AB.

 

Until that changes......

[Jamdub]

Sorry guys the management team are going nowhere so all your bitching and pant wetting are all in vain. This is not a short term project, Cathro & McPhee have only started.

 

They have made some very good signings, they have also made some which the jury is out on. When you are dealing in the transfer market we are, there will be mistakes made.

 

The one thing I hope is that Levein has learnt his lessons after giving Martin a 3 year deal, that lesson should have been learnt after Oswaniwa & Sammon. Once the player has proved himself you can consider the option of extending it. I would like him to sign players on 1 year contract with an option of a further year. 

 

As we all know football is a mercenary business anyway, there is no loyalty.

 

I think the signing of Hughes,Goncalves,Struan & Tziolis proved there is quality to be found on the cheap.

 

Let's give them all time, I will be very surprised if this is not a success in the next 2 seasons and the Hearts go up to lift the Scottish Cup...We'll be there.

[the big show]

I've made no "defence" of Craig Levein. All I've pointed out is that some people have real personal vendettas against him. I believe his position should be under scrutiny as the transfer policy and contracts given have been terrible in the last 12-18 months. I don't hold him accountable for results and performances. If you do, you bash on but the idea that Neilson and Cathro would be better without Levein there is daft.

 

PS If you want me to answer questions it does help to use a question mark

 

PPS I don't see any point in making any change right now. It's why Cathro and Levein should be judged at the end of this season

 

PPPS Can you answer my question now please?

OH and if the results don't start coming then you then have the chance that the new stand will not be filled , ALSO people might with draw there FOH subs as people has had enough . AYE . FFS we are  HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN not a roulette machine or some micky mouse club for a DOF to bring in rookie coaches and use them as his puppets . 3 rd biggest club in Scotland and given what has went on over the last month or so never mind the last 2 year it would be one hell of a gamble .  honestly some folk will not be happy until the keek well and truly hits the fan . aye Geoff your right 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

OH and if the results don't start coming then you then have the chance that the new stand will not be filled , ALSO people might with draw there FOH subs as people has had enough . AYE . FFS we are HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN not a roulette machine or some micky mouse club for a DOF to bring in rookie coaches and use them as his puppets . 3 rd biggest club in Scotland and given what has went on over the last month or so never mind the last 2 year it would be one hell of a gamble . honestly some folk will not be happy until the keek well and truly hits the fan . aye Geoff your right

You truly are the epitome of never argue with an idiot! Which part of if results don't improve by the season means they should both be sacked didn't you read?

[the big show]

You truly are the epitome of never argue with an idiot! Which part of if results don't improve by the season means they should both be sacked didn't you read?

AND which part of the keek really hitting the fan are you not understanding , idiot so in other words Why wait doooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh . ffs no wonder you have as many posts 

[Morgan]

This is warming up nicely

[Armageddon]

Boy 5 minutes in on his feet yesterday shouting "this is f'ing sht Hearts" "F you Cathro"

 

His mate was only there to Periscope the game and watch it through a phone yet he also had an opinion that everybody was shte.

 

Some utter jake balls in our support.

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

AND which part of the keek really hitting the fan are you not understanding , idiot so in other words Why wait doooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh . ffs no wonder you have as many posts

What on earth are you going on about?

[Heartbeat]

Only been in the company of CL the once long time ago just before he bacome our manager . I came away with the opinion that he loved himself however I don't have to like him to like or dislike his methods as a coach. He clearly is defensive minded and it's there to be seen. Anyone who cannot see now that he is dictating things entirely should perhaps look again and on that basis he must either change or go as clearly something is wrong.

 

I would have thought that CL would be more of a Hearts man than he is, recall his closeness with Eddie Thomson and during that period you would have though he had spent his entire playing career with United not Hearts indeed he was quite disparaging towards Hearts on more than one occasion and he used to make my blood boil .

 

Recall his willingness to slate fellow professionals at that function and if the likes of Gary Mcswegan could have heard him no doubt he would be less that impressed.

 

I know we are fairly split in this and things do turn fairly quickly but my concern is that we have moved from a harmonious everyone pulling together mood to this unrest pretty speedily and with the financial outlay the regime is taking on and the goodwill required from pledges I hope with all my Heart this doesn't impact so would just ask CL to take a long hard look at the situation and act in the best interests of HMFC because long after we are all gone we all hope this club will be surviving and thriving

[Mikey1874]

Levein is solely to blame for this utter mess. Totally deserves the criticism.

Just a little point

 

Ann Budge (control freak and strong leader) makes the key decisions including appointing Levein and Cathro. Levein recommended Cathro but the decision was Budge's. That is how she (currently) does things.

 

All the people unhappy with Levein and Cathro really would be better trying to get Ann Budge out of the club.

[Morgan]

Only been in the company of CL the once long time ago just before he bacome our manager . I came away with the opinion that he loved himself however I don't have to like him to like or dislike his methods as a coach. He clearly is defensive minded and it's there to be seen. Anyone who cannot see now that he is dictating things entirely should perhaps look again and on that basis he must either change or go as clearly something is wrong.

I would have thought that CL would be more of a Hearts man than he is, recall his closeness with Eddie Thomson and during that period you would have though he had spent his entire playing career with United not Hearts indeed he was quite disparaging towards Hearts on more than one occasion and he used to make my blood boil .

Recall his willingness to slate fellow professionals at that function and if the likes of Gary Mcswegan could have heard him no doubt he would be less that impressed.

I know we are fairly split in this and things do turn fairly quickly but my concern is that we have moved from a harmonious everyone pulling together mood to this unrest pretty speedily and with the financial outlay the regime is taking on and the goodwill required from pledges I hope with all my Heart this doesn't impact so would just ask CL to take a long hard look at the situation and act in the best interests of HMFC because long after we are all gone we all hope this club will be surviving and thriving

We too have met Craig Levein only once. We sat with him and Colin Cameron during a night out in Indigo Yard.

 

CL came across as cocky whereas Mickey was a good laugh.

 

Just our opinion like.

.

[Mikey1874]

I met Dave McPherson a couple of times

 

Nice guy

[the general]

Boy 5 minutes in on his feet yesterday shouting "this is f'ing sht Hearts" "F you Cathro"

 

His mate was only there to Periscope the game and watch it through a phone yet he also had an opinion that everybody was shte.

 

Some utter jake balls in our support.

 

a boy in the queue for the bogs at half time accusing everyone of being happy clappers and wanting a square go

got a feeling its only going to get worse

[Armageddon]

a boy in the queue for the bogs at half time accusing everyone of being happy clappers and wanting a square go

got a feeling its only going to get worse

The group up the back singing about the Hearts end being a library. Tragic fans just there to spout bile.

[Mikey1874]

While I'll occasionally have a go at the negativity there is something positive about fans wanting success.

 

It's still a good support and overall yesterday too.

 

Thinking you can just change the manager etc isn't helpful. But demanding success is a large part of why the old firm are successful.

[Morgan]

While I'll occasionally have a go at the negativity there is something positive about fans wanting success.

It's still a good support and overall yesterday too.

Thinking you can just change the manager etc isn't helpful. But demanding success is a large part of why the old firm are successful.

[OTT]

Do you have the evidence for a single thing that you have said here?

 

Yes.

 

 

 

I'm trying to calm down and look long term.

 

I think right now we are at a junction where we've chosen to go down the value based approach*1 in bringing in foreigners and trying to turn a profit but its not working *1.1. Once players start to come through the academy we'll maybe start to see how things are to come together. Right now though we are stuck with these mercenaries that don't give a ****. 

 

*1 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-hearts-signing-policy-risky-but-paying-off-1-4322507

*1.1 http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/167780-player-recruitment-a-few-facts/

 

I think Levein is absolutely accountable for the current player problem, Martin, you started a thread recently highlighting the huge turnover of playing staff over the last 2 years and I think this is Leveins problem. He hasn't adequately built a spine to this team and currently all parts are interchangeable which I don't believe should be the norm. He needs to put himself in the public eye and address this to the media. Some humility would go a long way in calming the fans down.  [Opinion]

 

 

I think there is an underlying issue about his ego which is becoming a problem, fair enough it was Keith Jackson and his magic 8 ball transfer rumours but McGowan was rumoured to have been in talks*2. Our team has no personalty. No one in that team seems the type to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take push individuals forward*3. McGowan has that personality and its something we are badly lacking. In relation to his ego, his refusal to resign any players from the vlad era stinks*4. There are sound arguments to getting these players in to settle the squad but instead of signing players the fans can rally behind Levein thinks he knows better which highlights a clear problem IMO.

 

*2 Hearts weigh up move to bring back Ryan McGowan (I have the daily record blocked so can't provide URL, but link should work, otherwise google DR Ryan Mcgowan hearts)

*3 http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/02/23/hearts-star-callum-paterson-tells-jambos-man-urges-fans-keep-faith-incredible-ian-cathro/ &  http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/jamie-walker-hearts-were-outfought-and-outplayed-1-4374398

*4 Evidence is clear to see. Refusal to sign Skacel, Letting go of all senior players during Budgement day, McGowan being available yet not dealing to bring him home,

 

FWIW I do think Levein cares about the club, but his ego needs to get put in check soon. = [Opinion]

[Agrippa11]

"This utter mess" (Lambo85) is the club in existance and sitting 4th in the SPL. Unless anyone wants to return to the Vlad years, you cannot separate off field events from on field events. The club have chosen to go forward with a particular structure that involves a DoF. He is a hearts man through and through - what more do people want? Yes, he is (probably) responsible for wanting to play the game a particular way and that is not the in-your-face traditional Scottish way. This to me explains clearly the coaching decisions and the sort of players that have been brought in. The trick is to make that work in a Scottish environment.That takes a bit of time and the players need support, not abuse.

[soonbe110]

Transparency. Where is it. We were promised it. Why is Levein locked away in his bunker?

I am all up for Cathro, I want to see him successful, did his boss honestly believe ripping the team up mid season would work.

I am no expert but it was plain to see this would backfire.

What is the plan. What are the targets, what is acceptable, what is unacceptable.

I don't know. We have done so much to allow these people have their privileged position, they promised transparency, now is the time to keep not just their fans but their stakeholders informed and engaged

He isn't in his bunker. He was there fronting it up yesterday. Anyone who was there could have spoken to him before the game. He was in the dugout area for about 15 minutes. He was in full view of all the fans for the entire game. Again anyone who wanted to say something to him could have. I don't get this 'hiding' accusation.

[Phage]

So we're not talking about if CL deserves criticism here. But the way if is dished out.

 

Getting drunk and howlering abuse at somebody in public is a Police matter imo and totally unacceptable. Article 1, Section 1; being a total ramjet in public.

[Notts1874]

Wasn't this big show boy the person who claimed to have seen/been talking to a player at Riccerton only for the same player to post on social media they were in Holland?

 

Apologies if it isn't btw.

[redm]

I've been puzzling over the Levein thing for a few weeks now, can only assume it stems from something that happened long before I really paid attention to what was going on at Hearts because there's definitely some sort of weird historical grudge going on.

 

Also, if you don't like someone, the first thing you do is accuse them of being 'arrogant' and 'in it for themselves' because they have an 'attitude problem'. It's the internet way...

[redm]

a boy in the queue for the bogs at half time accusing everyone of being happy clappers and wanting a square go

got a feeling its only going to get worse

Someone actually used that term out loud in public? "Happy clappers"? Sakes. [emoji23]

[alanthejambo]

A group singing this is a library 5 minutes in after people didn't join in with their stand up if you hate hibees chant!

[Debut 4]

Transparency. Where is it. We were promised it. Why is Levein locked away in his bunker?

 

I am all up for Cathro, I want to see him successful, did his boss honestly believe ripping the team up mid season would work.

 

I am no expert but it was plain to see this would backfire.

 

What is the plan. What are the targets, what is acceptable, what is unacceptable.

 

I don't know. We have done so much to allow these people have their privileged position, they promised transparency, now is the time to keep not just their fans but their stakeholders informed and engaged

Somebody on another thread made a great point a few days ago, in my opinion, that all these new players haven't come into an environment where there are people leading by example on the training pitch. An environment where these new players would get a real eye opener to how much it means to work hard for the club.

 

The poster also said, while hindsight is a great thing, we were far too quick to dismantle the championship winning squad which had a lot of togetherness and players that fought for the jersey.

 

We can also point to poor summer signings and how this is has disrupted continuity. But imo we've ripped a core out too quick.

[redm]

Somebody on another thread made a great point a few days ago, in my opinion, that all these new players haven't come into an environment where there are people leading by example on the training pitch. An environment where these new players would get a real eye opener to how much it means to work hard for the club.

 

The poster also said, while hindsight is a great thing, we were far too quick to dismantle the championship winning squad which had a lot of togetherness and players that fought for the jersey.

 

We can also point to poor summer signings and how this is has disrupted continuity. But imo we've ripped a core out too quick.

That is a good point. I also think we might miss Paterson for more than just his footballing skills too.

 

Walker, Nicholson and Paterson aside, I'm not sure if there's many players who have a bond of any sort with either the club or with the fans. That's a worry.

[Hall]

Why wait for a 3rd manager to come in? Problems are the exact same now as they were under Robbie. Same formation, same shape, trying to play central midfielders wide, no pace, no width etc etc Surely you dont think these are all a coincidence?

Spot on!

[Boab]

Somebody on another thread made a great point a few days ago, in my opinion, that all these new players haven't come into an environment where there are people leading by example on the training pitch. An environment where these new players would get a real eye opener to how much it means to work hard for the club.

 

The poster also said, while hindsight is a great thing, we were far too quick to dismantle the championship winning squad which had a lot of togetherness and players that fought for the jersey.

 

We can also point to poor summer signings and how this is has disrupted continuity. But imo we've ripped a core out too quick.

 

There was popular opinion that the Championship team wouldn't have done well because of the step up. I've never subscribed to this view.

 

Finishing 3rd helps their argument but it would have been interesting to see how they would have fared. We'll never know !

[Just joe]

There was popular opinion that the Championship team wouldn't have done well because of the step up. I've never subscribed to this view.

 

Finishing 3rd helps their argument but it would have been interesting to see how they would have fared. We'll never know !

Agree Boab.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

He isn't in his bunker. He was there fronting it up yesterday. Anyone who was there could have spoken to him before the game. He was in the dugout area for about 15 minutes. He was in full view of all the fans for the entire game. Again anyone who wanted to say something to him could have. I don't get this 'hiding' accusation.

The silence is deafening. We hear from Budge and Cathro regularly, not so Levein. Not every FOH member fan or season ticket holder can speak to him at a match. He was all over Twitter when we were on the up as an example of why I think he is in retreat. And have a shave as well

[redm]

The silence is deafening. We hear from Budge and Cathro regularly, not so Levein. Not every FOH member fan or season ticket holder can speak to him at a match. He was all over Twitter when we were on the up as an example of why I think he is in retreat. And have a shave as well

If you saw some of the comments he gets on Twitter it wouldn't surprise anyone that he'd given it a miss for the last few months. Dreadful stuff. [emoji58]

 

In what capacity would you like to hear from Levein? Some sort of official website update on football department or similar? Along the same lines as the Budge updates?

[Debut 4]

There was popular opinion that the Championship team wouldn't have done well because of the step up. I've never subscribed to this view.

 

Finishing 3rd helps their argument but it would have been interesting to see how they would have fared. We'll never know !

Eckersley is still the best leftback we've had since the rebirth.

[Just joe]

Eckersley is still the best leftback we've had since the rebirth.

Was just thinking about him , total workhorse as was Sow and Zeefuik.

 

Certainly the squad we had then played with passion for our club distinct lack of that from our recent signings.

 

Miss Paterson terribly., however truly hope we finish the season 3rd or 4th and no lower.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

If you saw some of the comments he gets on Twitter it wouldn't surprise anyone that he'd given it a miss for the last few months. Dreadful stuff. [emoji58]

 

In what capacity would you like to hear from Levein? Some sort of official website update on football department or similar? Along the same lines as the Budge updates?

Tom English interview preferably

[manaliveits105]

Could the bile spouters and more importantly the scarf throwers just feck off and dont come back - attention seeking erseholes 

[Bazzas right boot]

While I'll occasionally have a go at the negativity there is something positive about fans wanting success.

 

It's still a good support and overall yesterday too.

 

Thinking you can just change the manager etc isn't helpful. But demanding success is a large part of why the old firm are successful.

It's also why rangers are ****ed.

 

You need to earn the right to success.

 

Not demand it through entitlement.

 

The of, over 30 years earned that.

 

We have no right to demand success, we need to earn it.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Could the bile spouters and more importantly the scarf throwers just feck off and dont come back - attention seeking erseholes

Yip I think we should have a sponsored silence next game. Or clap the opposition day. We just need patience, have been assured we will have a great team in 3 years so just keep spunking yer cash over and don't complain

[We_are_the_Hearts]

It's also why rangers are ****ed.

 

You need to earn the right to success.

 

Not demand it through entitlement.

 

The of, over 30 years earned that.

 

We have no right to demand success, we need to earn it.

The players need to earn it. This lot couldn't earn **** all

[RudiHMFC]

Boy 5 minutes in on his feet yesterday shouting "this is f'ing sht Hearts" "F you Cathro"

 

His mate was only there to Periscope the game and watch it through a phone yet he also had an opinion that everybody was shte.

 

Some utter jake balls in our support.

Were they wrong like?

[Paolo]

Could the bile spouters and more importantly the scarf throwers just feck off and dont come back - attention seeking erseholes

What an intelligent argument.

[Armageddon]

Were they wrong like?

At 3:05 no team can be judged. Clearly there just to shout abuse at anybody and everybody.

[Armageddon]

What an intelligent argument.

I agree with the poster.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

At 3:05 no team can be judged. Clearly there just to shout abuse at anybody and everybody.

After Wednesday they had every right to do so. The players are wankers

[Paolo]

I agree with the poster.

If he made a sensible point, rather than resorting to abuse, I might do too.

[Finlay James]

Yes.

 

 

 

I'm trying to calm down and look long term. I think right now we are at a junction where we've chosen to go down the value based approach*1 in bringing in foreigners and trying to turn a profit but its not working *1.1. Once players start to come through the academy we'll maybe start to see how things are to come together. Right now though we are stuck with these mercenaries that don't give a ****. 

 

*1 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-hearts-signing-policy-risky-but-paying-off-1-4322507

*1.1 http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/167780-player-recruitment-a-few-facts/ I think Levein is absolutely accountable for the current player problem, Martin, you started a thread recently highlighting the huge turnover of playing staff over the last 2 years and I think this is Leveins problem. He hasn't adequately built a spine to this team and currently all parts are interchangeable which I don't believe should be the norm. He needs to put himself in the public eye and address this to the media. Some humility would go a long way in calming the fans down.  [Opinion]

 

 I think there is an underlying issue about his ego which is becoming a problem, fair enough it was Keith Jackson and his magic 8 ball transfer rumours but McGowan was rumoured to have been in talks*2. Our team has no personalty. No one in that team seems the type to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take push individuals forward*3. McGowan has that personality and its something we are badly lacking. In relation to his ego, his refusal to resign any players from the vlad era stinks*4. There are sound arguments to getting these players in to settle the squad but instead of signing players the fans can rally behind Levein thinks he knows better which highlights a clear problem IMO. 

*2 Hearts weigh up move to bring back Ryan McGowan (I have the daily record blocked so can't provide URL, but link should work, otherwise google DR Ryan Mcgowan hearts)

*3 http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/02/23/hearts-star-callum-paterson-tells-jambos-man-urges-fans-keep-faith-incredible-ian-cathro/ &  http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/jamie-walker-hearts-were-outfought-and-outplayed-1-4374398

*4 Evidence is clear to see. Refusal to sign Skacel, Letting go of all senior players during Budgement day, McGowan being available yet not dealing to bring him home,

 

FWIW I do think Levein cares about the club, but his ego needs to get put in check soon. = [Opinion]

Elaborate?

[Finlay James]

i hope Levein laughed off the idiots giving him abuse, they really have no clue what he is engineering behind the scenes.

 

In 10 years, we will look back at all ridiculous comments on this forum and reflect on the journey we have been on whilst we celebrate the success spawned by our youth policy.

[OTT]

Elaborate?

 

Check the spoiler  

 

Its nothing ITK just looking at quotes and journo articles.