Even More SNP Nonsense

[deesidejambo]

City break pal.

 

Meanwhile, banks are fighting over themselves to lend equity to NS oil companies these days.

 

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/13986/north-sea-player-wins-2bn-vote-of-confidence/

Indeed the Banks and private equity are very keen to lend. There are over 20 more deals being worked on for this year.

 

It's because Chrysaor have bought assets from Shell at a knockdown price as Shell need to make a hasty exit from the North Sea. Shell will be dumping more assets before year end.

 

Chrysaor got a bargain and hence investors are happy to jump in.

 

Also Chrysaors acquisition costs are, wait for it - tax deductible.

 

Meanwhile the OGA are in crisis talks with a number of Companies to try and get decommissioning costs reduced. Because on average, decommissioning costs are tax deductible in some cases up to 70%.

 

And the more the decommissioning costs spiral, the less treasury revenue.

 

And if it's Geneva you're going to its a crap city.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Why wait for independence ? If the policy is important surely you make the change now.

 

Because then they would have a supposed grievance to whine about. 

[Doogz]

Because then they would have a supposed grievance to whine about.

His continual refusal to answer the question certainly makes it appear that having something to blame Westminster for is more important than actually fixing the problem.

[jambo lodge]

Why shouldn't the state provide support for every child?

Why not let Mums and Dads make informed choices before they try for yet another child.

[SwindonJambo]

Why not let Mums and Dads make informed choices before they try for yet another child.

I think the plan is to stop people having kids that the state ends up paying for, especially perma-workless households. I can see the policy running into problems, if, say a Household with a large family but stable good earnings suddenly loses that income for whatever reason, be that long term unemployment, incapacity or death. But it would be up to them to make that choice before they try for a 3rd child.

 

But to not use powers to implement your own tax arrangements when empowered to do so just to manufacture a grievance is truly cynical, thoroughly pathetic, dishonest and manipulative.

Edited April 14, 2017 by SwindonJambo

[AlphonseCapone]

Why shouldn't the state provide support for every child?

Personal responsibility and state resources. You shouldn't be having children beyond what you can afford and the state has to save money where it can.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Why shouldn't the state provide support for every child?

 

I imagine because a system that does is massively open to abuse.

[Boris]

Is child benefit really enough to support a child?

 

I get the idea that people should take responsibility when deciding to have kids, but sometimes they are a surprise.

 

It just seems rather arbitrary to me.

 

What's next? Sterilisation for all those in the lowest economic bracket just to be on the safe side?

[Boris]

But to not use powers to implement your own tax arrangements when empowered to do so just to manufacture a grievance is truly cynical, thoroughly pathetic, dishonest and manipulative.

So the Scottish Government has to use its budget to mitigate Westminster policy? Already a furore over being the highest taxed part of the UK, but chastised for not further raising tax?

 

Cake and eating it!

 

Another reason to leave this union, Imo. Let us make our own decisions using all that any nation has at its disposal.

[jambo lodge]

So the Scottish Government has to use its budget to mitigate Westminster policy? Already a furore over being the highest taxed part of the UK, but chastised for not further raising tax?

 

Cake and eating it!

 

Another reason to leave this union, Imo. Let us make our own decisions using all that any nation has at its disposal.

Aye good one, that's what devolved power is for. Holyrood has the choice to spend its budget on what it wants to spend it on. Responsible governments make choices on what they can afford. Its just grievance politics to complain when you have the power to change something.

[SwindonJambo]

So the Scottish Government has to use its budget to mitigate Westminster policy? Already a furore over being the highest taxed part of the UK, but chastised for not further raising tax?

Cake and eating it!

Another reason to leave this union, Imo. Let us make our own decisions using all that any nation has at its disposal.

Westminster Policy is enforced by macroeconomics, or at least the need to make cuts somewhere is. There's not the slightest chance that any Scottish Government would reverse this policy, especially in the early years of Indy, when money would be extremely tight. In fact the likelihood is that many further cuts would be needed. As Al Capone says, the current policy on this issue is very open to abuse and frequently is abused.

 

I've never ever bought into this 'too wee, too stupid" line that's continually trotted out by Spacey - of course there are people capable of doing the job should it arise. But they would need to be extremely tough, thick skinned and unafraid of making unpopular choices. I just don't think the sitting tenants are up to the job unless they have wholesale policy changes. Indy Scotland's early years would be extremely tough with brutal tax increases and spending cuts required as the new state hammers itself into shape and the impact on the daily lives of many would be huge. Anyone who believes this wouldn't be necessary is kidding themselves. It may go on to prosper later and I hope it would. But years of pain would be needed first.

[Boris]

Aye good one, that's what devolved power is for. Holyrood has the choice to spend its budget on what it wants to spend it on. Responsible governments make choices on what they can afford. Its just grievance politics to complain when you have the power to change something.

Does the Scottish government currently pay child benefit?

 

They already funded to mitigate the bedroom tax out of existing funds, but as Westminster continues to dismantle the welfare state, the Scottish government can't keep on paying for things that are Westminster responsibility.

 

To say the Holyrood has the power to levy its own tax is perhaps fair, fairer still would be for the Scottish Parliament to decide its own welfare levels as other nation states do.

[jambo lodge]

Does the Scottish government currently pay child benefit?

 

They already funded to mitigate the bedroom tax out of existing funds, but as Westminster continues to dismantle the welfare state, the Scottish government can't keep on paying for things that are Westminster responsibility.

 

To say the Holyrood has the power to levy its own tax is perhaps fair, fairer still would be for the Scottish Parliament to decide its own welfare levels as other nation states do.

Scotland already " enjoys" ?1200 extra spend per head of population under the Barnett formula. If Holyrood disagrees with UK policy on child tax credits then they are free to top up or make other arrangements. Don't think the SNP would get very far with voters if they wanted to increase taxes to fund children from larger families.

[SwindonJambo]

Does the Scottish government currently pay child benefit?

They already funded to mitigate the bedroom tax out of existing funds, but as Westminster continues to dismantle the welfare state, the Scottish government can't keep on paying for things that are Westminster responsibility.

To say the Holyrood has the power to levy its own tax is perhaps fair, fairer still would be for the Scottish Parliament to decide its own welfare levels as other nation states do.

Indy Scotland's decision on welfare levels would be limited and enforced by whatever resources it has, as is the case with all other nation states. Edited April 14, 2017 by SwindonJambo

[Boris]

Indy Scotland's decision on welfare levels would be limited and enforced by whatever resources it has, as is the case with all other nation states.

Indeed, so for example it could fund those rather than nuclear weapons in a vain attempt to cling to an outdated sense of global importance.

[SwindonJambo]

Indeed, so for example it could fund those rather than nuclear weapons in a vain attempt to cling to an outdated sense of global importance.

There is that, and it could fund or part fund a more generous welfare state. The ongoing annualised costs of running Trident are around ?2bn a year, so Scotland's contribution is approx ?180 million. I would assume it would have to maintain its own separate armed forces in order to be a NATO member. An Indy Scotland would be daft not to join NATO in this World.

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/trident-nuclear-cost/

 

It would also have to fund all the other extras it gets - free prescriptions for all and free care for the elderly. I suspect with the huge pressures its finances would be under, the savings on not having trident would go elsewhere.

[Roxy Hearts]

I'll take that as a no then.

London is built with it.

[Doogz]

London is built with it.

Once again - do you have any facts or numbers to back this up or is this just the same as your claim that London isn't a leading financial centre ?

[Roxy Hearts]

Once again - do you have any facts or numbers to back this up or is this just the same as your claim that London isn't a leading financial centre ?

London has not benifitted from Scotland's resources?

 

Yes it's a financial centre and so is Edinburgh what of it?

[Doogz]

London has not benifitted from Scotland's resources?

 

Yes it's a financial centre and so is Edinburgh what of it?

You described London being a financial centre as nonsense earlier today - so is it a financial centre or is this nonsense ?

[Space Mackerel]

Once again - do you have any facts or numbers to back this up or is this just the same as your claim that London isn't a leading financial centre ?

Most pro Indy supporters have posted up numerous facts and figures.

You choose not to read them.

 

Hence why I selectively reply to the more educated Yoon posters on here.

[Roxy Hearts]

London has not benifitted from Scotland's resources?

 

Yes it's a financial centre and so is Edinburgh what of it?

Yes I said it's a finance centre so what. It's an assortment of things built on the wealth of others.

That was meant for Doogz.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Roxy Hearts

[Doogz]

Most pro Indy supporters have posted up numerous facts and figures.

You choose not to read them.

 

Hence why I selectively reply to the more educated Yoon posters on here.

Well done - I haven't actually decided how I will vote if & when there is another referendum. I will vote in favour of who can persuade me what will leave me & the country as a whole in the best position. As I read more & more of this thread the unionists consistently provide more details to back up their point of view while posters like yourself resort to deflection and name calling. All I want is for you to engage in the conversation and explain your belief that Scotland will be better of under independence but you would rather call me a "yoon". I know it's a longshot but is there any chance you could answer my original question ?

[Space Mackerel]

Well done - I haven't actually decided how I will vote if & when there is another referendum. I will vote in favour of who can persuade me what will leave me & the country as a whole in the best position. As I read more & more of this thread the unionists consistently provide more details to back up their point of view while posters like yourself resort to deflection and name calling. All I want is for you to engage in the conversation and explain your belief that Scotland will be better of under independence but you would rather call me a "yoon". I know it's a longshot but is there any chance you could answer my original question ?

I'm watching the game, what's your question that you can't glean from the data available?

[Doogz]

Yes I said it's a finance centre so what. It's an assortment of things built on the wealth of others.

That was meant for Doogz.

But you also said that calling itself a financial centre was nonsense - so just to clear things up. You're happy that London is a financial centre now and still can't back up your claim that London has more oil jobs than the whole of Scotland ?

[Doogz]

I'm watching the game, what's your question that you can't glean from the data available?

Earlier today you claimed we would amend tax changes being implemented by Westminster after independence - as we have the powers to change these now I asked why we have to wait for independence. Surely if they need to be changed then there is no advantage to postponing this?

[Space Mackerel]

Earlier today you claimed we would amend tax changes being implemented by Westminster after independence - as we have the powers to change these now I asked why we have to wait for independence. Surely if they need to be changed then there is no advantage to postponing this?

You really are truly thick and stupid polictally speaking if you want the Scottish Government to compensate the U.K. governments disastrous social policies.

[Doogz]

You really are truly thick and stupid polictally speaking if you want the Scottish Government to compensate the U.K. governments disastrous social policies.

Ah great - more insults and still no answers. Stay classy !

[Space Mackerel]

Ah great - more insults and still no answers. Stay classy !

The National have been doing a spread all this week about small countries, their resources and economics, you should buy it.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

The National have been doing a spread all this week about small countries, their resources and economics, you should buy it.

 

Only if you're out of bog roll.

[Space Mackerel]

Only if you're out of bog roll.

Which newspaper did Wikipedia ban again? [emoji2][emoji52]

[Doogz]

The National have been doing a spread all this week about small countries, their resources and economics, you should buy it.

I know I'm truly thick and stupid but if it is all so see easy to understand surely you can just explain it to me - it'll probably more efficient if you just miss out the insults & deflection but I know this is difficult for you. Thanks !

[Space Mackerel]

I know I'm truly thick and stupid but if it is all so see easy to understand surely you can just explain it to me - it'll probably more efficient if you just miss out the insults & deflection but I know this is difficult for you. Thanks !

You want me to explain the economies of all these similar nations that are rich and prosperous like an independent Scotland might be like?

 

You can do it yourself

[Doogz]

You want me to explain the economies of all these similar nations that are rich and prosperous like an independent Scotland might be like?

 

You can do it yourself

Well here we are many posts later on - you still can't answer my original question. All I've had is insults and deflection - what a shame I enjoy debate but unfortunately you are either unwilling or incapable so I guess I'm better of ignoring your posts ongoing.

[SwindonJambo]

The National have been doing a spread all this week about small countries, their resources and economics, you should buy it.

Ah, That well balanced and objective publication with no agenda.

[Space Mackerel]

Ah, That well balanced and objective publication with no agenda.

I give up, better to listen to Donald Trump tweets for news eh?

[SwindonJambo]

I give up, better to listen to Donald Trump tweets for news eh?

Nope - he's at the opposite extreme. I seem to recall a former FM bent over backwards to let him build a golf course, resulting in multiple evictions so he's not for me either.

 

Why don't you provide a link to a neutral site, which explains your point, instead of being rude to Doogz? He's a floating voter and could be won over to your cause if he can be convinced.

[Space Mackerel]

Nope - he's at the opposite extreme. I seem to recall a former FM bent over backwards to let him build a golf course, resulting in multiple evictions so he's not for me either.

 

Why don't you provide a link to a neutral site, which explains your point, instead of being rude to Doogz? He's a floating voter and could be won over to your cause if he can be convinced.

The Union is in its last throws, its about time you all got used to it.

 

These are the only facts.

[Doogz]

Nope - he's at the opposite extreme. I seem to recall a former FM bent over backwards to let him build a golf course, resulting in multiple evictions so he's not for me either.

 

Why don't you provide a link to a neutral site, which explains your point, instead of being rude to Doogz? He's a floating voter and could be won over to your cause if he can be convinced.

It's become increasingly clear he can't provide any facts or information - it's just deflection, insult, meme or an empty slogan. If I'm going to be persuaded to vote for independence it'll only be by a poster prepared to engage in debate and back up their opinions like Alphonse Capone or Boris etc.

[SwindonJambo]

The Union is in its last throws, its about time you all got used to it.

These are the only facts.

It's not a fact. You don't know that, nor does anyone else. The vote hasn't happened yet nor do we know if there's even going to be one. You still haven't provided any coherent arguments to support your points - just links to sites with an obvious agenda.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

The Union is in its last throws, its about time you all got used to it.

 

These are the only facts.

 

 

 

The drugs clearly don't work.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Trapper John McIntyre

[SwindonJambo]

It's become increasingly clear he can't provide any facts or information - it's just deflection, insult, meme or an empty slogan. If I'm going to be persuaded to vote for independence it'll only be by a poster prepared to engage in debate and back up their opinions like Alphonse Capone or Boris etc.

Imho, Both are excellent posters and always put over their points articulately, respectfully and non-confrontationally even when they disagree. We could do with a few more of their kind on here.

[Space Mackerel]

The drugs clearly don't work.

Bookies say so, and they're no homeless pal [emoji4]

 

 

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[Arnold Rothstein]

Bookies say so, and they're no homeless pal [emoji4]

 

 

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Get your millions on it then Walts.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Bookies say so, and they're no homeless pal [emoji4]

 

 

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Bookies said Hilary. Bookies said no Brexit.

 

Its a wonder they're no homeless pal.

[SwindonJambo]

Bookies say so, and they're no homeless pal [emoji4]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That would be the same bookies who offered long odds on Trump and Brexit, even after the polls closed. Hmmm.

[reaths17]

You really are truly thick and stupid polictally speaking if you want the Scottish Government to compensate the U.K. governments disastrous social policies.

if i could be arsed, that would be worth a stupid smiley.

 

have you worked out that scotlands part of the UK yet.

 

still avoiding answering anything, keeping you on these political threads is doing a power of good for unionists and serious damage to the separatists

[Pans Jambo]

I'm not getting into the debate on the subject topic ,but I'm not sure you should put the Falklands war along side the other 2 as you have ,simply as it involved an invasion of a British held territory ( different debate granted) and the temporary occupation of British citizens .

Im not debating the wars or why we went. Im saying Scottish oil enabled the UK to pay for them.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Im not debating the wars or why we went. Im saying Scottish oil enabled the UK to pay for them.

I'm sure the Bootnecks and Paras were mighty grateful.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

One of these is a National winner. The other a national disgrace.

 

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