Even More SNP Nonsense

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I don't mind thrift and paying my way for a better Scotland, governed and voted in by the people who live here. What's wrong with that and why is it always about money with Unionist types? Self esteem and we can do it attitude is what we would have. Does anyone honestly think that the country that gave the world modern capitalism couldn't govern itself and if so you don't have much faith in people or yourself? 

 

Emotional arguments about Adam Smith and the like aren't going to do it. I don't mind England subsidising me. Long may it continue. It's why we have the freebies. It's why your kid doesn't pay tuition fees and your aunty gets a free prescription and your gran is in a free nursing home. Why do I want to swap that for an unsustainable deficit and Brussels, charged a billion a year for 5 seats in a toothless parliament and no say in the Commission?  Single Market you say?  Less than 20% of our trade. Eh, no.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Just putting to bed this myth that Scotland would be skint in an hour according to some. 

And Yes, I have always voted SNP bar once in the 97 GE, and look how that turned out.

That is not a myth I have ever bought into. As I have posted more than once, an independent Scotland would remain one of the richest countries in the world. It might in aggregate be a little less rich or a little more - no one knows for sure and no one will ever know, even after the event, if it happens. But richer or poorer, Scotland could if it chose be a more equal and fairer society, something which the UK seems to have lost its appetite for in the last few decades.

 

(Whether independence is a more desirable goal than using Scotland's not inconsiderable influence in the UK to reverse the trend towards ever greater inequality in the UK is another question).

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Emotional arguments about Adam Smith and the like aren't going to do it. I don't mind England subsidising me. Long may it continue. It's why we have the freebies. It's why your kid doesn't pay tuition fees and your aunty gets a free prescription and your gran is in a free nursing home. Why do I want to swap that for an unsustainable deficit and Brussels, charged a billion a year for 5 seats in a toothless parliament and no say in the Commission?  Single Market you say?  Less than 20% of our trade. Eh, no.

Thanks for proving my point. What freebies? I pay taxes and if a Scottish Government wishes to distribute our wealth in different ways for a better society then I'm happy. England doesn't subsidise Scotland and all the other myths. You wish to stay in the Union but please don't insult those who wish to be better governed by people we would vote for. 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

That is not a myth I have ever bought into. As I have posted more than once, an independent Scotland would remain one of the richest countries in the world. It might in aggregate be a little less rich or a little more - no one knows for sure and no one will ever know, even after the event, if it happens. But richer or poorer, Scotland could if it chose be a more equal and fairer society, something which the UK seems to have lost its appetite for in the last few decades.

 

(Whether independence is a more desirable goal than using Scotland's not inconsiderable influence in the UK to reverse the trend towards ever greater inequality in the UK is another question).

 

Good post. 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

That is not a myth I have ever bought into. As I have posted more than once, an independent Scotland would remain one of the richest countries in the world. It might in aggregate be a little less rich or a little more - no one knows for sure and no one will ever know, even after the event, if it happens. But richer or poorer, Scotland could if it chose be a more equal and fairer society, something which the UK seems to have lost its appetite for in the last few decades.

 

(Whether independence is a more desirable goal than using Scotland's not inconsiderable influence in the UK to reverse the trend towards ever greater inequality in the UK is another question).

 

 

Scotlands MP’s are about to get cut from 59 to 53. 

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/527233/calls-scrap-outrageous-plan-cut-number-scots-mps/

 

This “influence” is getting smaller and smaller. 

[JackLadd]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Thanks for proving my point. What freebies? I pay taxes and if a Scottish Government wishes to distribute our wealth in different ways for a better society then I'm happy. England doesn't subsidise Scotland and all the other myths. You wish to stay in the Union but please don't insult those who wish to be better governed by people we would vote for. 

 

Please don't insult people who would rather stay within a union that has served  Scotland well for over three centuries with appeals to emotion over sense. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Please don't insult people who would rather stay within a union that has served  Scotland well for over three centuries with appeals to emotion over sense. 

 

“served Scotland well”

[Space Mackerel]

https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/12/29/consider-the-facts/

 

 

Now, if you are someone living in Scotland whose viewpoint is straight down the line of seeing yourself as being first and foremost part of an intangible but nevertheless exceptional place called Britain the following text is not geared towards you.

It is not geared towards you because there will never be any circumstances or events impacting Scotland that will change your opinion. The British state can do anything to you, or to others ostensibly on your behalf, and you’ll accept it, taking the view that you trust what they are doing is for the best for your country, which for you is Britain.

You may consider yourself a proud Scot, a phrase repeated ad nauseam by an element of No voters in 2014 but you see Scotland as only a part of some other entity, an entity which you must think Scotland cannot thrive without. Fair enough, that’s your view. There’s no point of flogging a deed coo.

However, for everybody else who is currently not an advocate for Scotland returning to its rightful state as an independent country, those who have no strong views on the sovereignty of Scotland, those who voted No in the September 14 referendum without strong convictions, those who have not been convinced otherwise in the period since then, ladies and gentlemen please I beg your indulgence for just a few minutes.

First up, a bit of an example for you, of which there are many, of the type of behaviour demonstrated by hose who have control over decision-making for your country, for you, and for your family, the British State.

40 odd years ago vast reserves of a precious natural resource were discovered in the waters around Scotland, as were similarly found in the waters of our neighbour Norway. Norway, taking the sensible approach to this massive windfall of good fortune decided, after some thought, to greatly benefit their citizens by creating an ‘oil fund’ from the tax receipts gained from the extraction of this resource. They then used this fund to create an extensive gold star quality network of public services, a welfare system based on need, and a first class public health service facilitating a standard of living envied by other countries.

So much revenue came from this approach that Norway has enough to keep much of that money, earned from its natural resources, aside for a rainy day, when things are tight, when the world has an economic slump, they have a bit put aside to cushion the blow.

So what happened after the discovery of a vast wealth of natural resources in Scotland’s case?

Well, first of all following initial surveys establishing how much oil potentially was actually in Scotland’s waters the British State’s Westminster government rubbed their hands at the prospect of the potential tax revenue the London treasury would receive, Britain could be great again, the decline of a dying empire could be halted, or at least slowed down.

However, as is their way, self protection being paramount at all times, which is how they have survived for so long, they considered the consequences of the people of Scotland finding out that they were sitting on a lottery win beyond their wildest dreams, and they panicked. Would Scotland take the opportunity to break away from the entangled web of Union now that there future prosperity was assured?

With this fear uppermost in their minds the cabinet ministers of the British government then made a conscious decision to throw a veil of secrecy over the facts, to hide the extent of the oil reserves in Scotland’s water from the people of Scotland, a deception which continued for 30 odd years.

If you think what I am writing is fabricated or some sort of conspiracy theory please google ‘The McCrone Report.”

Professor Gavin McCrone at that time was a highly respected UK government economist who wrote a paper about the consequences of Scotland’s extensive reserves of oil . He deduced in his paper that if the people of Scotland had access to the financial benefits of their own natural resource Scotland would be one of the richest countries in the world. His work was buried, stamped confidential for many years, and only saw the light of day after a concerted freedom of information campaign by Scottish politicians. Look it up. Please do.

So what did the government of the UK from London do with all of the money they gained from the tax receipts from the oil found in Scotland’s waters?

The vast amount of revenue gained from tax receipts from oil found in Scotland’s waters was spent financing Margaret Thatcher and her successors golden age of Britain. It built the M25, Canary Wharf, the Channel Tunnel, it financed weapons of mass destruction, it provided the financing that bailed out high risk failures in the City. It ironically paid the unemployment benefits of the vast number of Scots Thatcher’s withering policies put out of work.

The Unionist backed media, (let’s not beat about the bush here, the BBC is an arm of the British State, it is not impartial, it is not providing you with a fair reflection of events, it’s telling you what you need to hear from the perspective of protecting it’s patron. If you don’t believe that go and look up how the BBC World Service is funded, up until 2014 it was directly funded by the Foreign Office in the form of grants) will tell you that according to reports like GERS Scotland is poor and couldn’t possibly survive financially, meanwhile in reality before the oil price dropped, which is now coming back up again, Scotland per head of population contributed each year for several decades to the Exchequer in London far in excess of the monies returned to Scotland to pay for essential public services by way of the block grants Westminster decides Scotland should have.

You have helped keep the rest of the UK afloat for decades, yet as long as the newspapers, who are all owned by individuals or organisations who stand to lose out if Scotland becomes independent, and the unionist broadcast media, tell you that Scotland is the only country in the world who couldn’t possibly govern itself you seem to believe them. Now that the oil price is back on the rise they’ll be telling us it’s running out again, even though we hear pretty regularly about new fields opening up.

Please, I implore you, take a step back, have a think about all of that. Do your own research. Be informed.

That’s a wee insight into the kind of people we are dealing with, who are not interested in yours or my views. They only see Scotland as something they can milk, exploit and take advantage of.

Ok, so you don’t believe that they are not interested in your views? Let’s look at that.

In 2014, when they feared the worst, that the people of Scotland would in fact take control of their own affairs, they promised you the earth. We love you Scotland, don’t leave us, we need you to stay, we need you to lead, Cameron and his cohort said. We’re a family of nations, they said. They promised Devo Max, control of just about every power under the sun apart from foreign affairs and defence. They made Vows, they pleaded with you. You don’t need independence they said, what we’ll give you will be virtually independence, in fact it will be better because you’ll still have the Union.

On the morning after you voted No things changed dramatically. The trap had been sprung. You were invisible again. Suddenly all the rhetoric was about England. Scotland had caved in so they didn’t need to bother about convincing you anymore. It was a day of English Votes for English Laws initiating a clear attempt to change the goalposts so that Scotland could never be so close to so much power ever again, even to the extent that a Scottish politician will never again be Prime Minister.

By voting No you sent Westminster a clear signal that Scotland has no respect for itself therefore it can just be walked all over. The British State only understands power. How do you think they managed to manipulate a quarter of the planet for so long?

Every promise they made you before 18th September 2014 was backtracked on, wormed out of, and diluted, resulting in the farcical half-soaked Smith Commission giving Scotland control over the colour of its signposts, and very little else. Even now, three years later, the Scottish Government has control of only 15% of the public revenue and expenditure of the economy of Scotland. Westminster firmly retains the economic levers of control.

There was, of course, a backlash to all of this dishonesty. In the subsequent General Election, the people of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to send 56 of a possible 59 members of parliament representing Scottish constituencies to Westminster from the party which advocates self-government for Scotland.

The UK government had one, yes one, representative in Scotland, at that time, an odious fellow who has admitted that he does not represent Scotland in Westminster’s government, instead he represents Westminster to the people of Scotland. He also insists that Scotland doesn’t actually exist as a country since it was swallowed up as part of the Act of Union.

He’s still the Secretary of State for Scotland now in 2017 despite having to backtrack on so many promises that he’s made in the past. He has a solid brass neck. Have no doubt, the man in question does not have the interests of the majority of the people of Scotland as his prime motivator. His career prospects and ermine cloaked pension plan are his guiding lights.

This one-off electoral political landslide was subsequently rebalanced following the London Premier Theresa May’s ill-judged snap General Election of this year which resulted in her government losing its majority, and having to scramble around and pay off Northern Irish unionists to support them in parliament.

However in Scotland Unionist parties worked together during the election (hell take you Labour) with no policy agenda other than to stop a second independence referendum, convincing some of an electorate scunnered with elections and referendums to oust some notable scalps from the SNP, who now have 35 seats, still a massive increase on any other period before 2015, and still reflecting the clear majority of Scottish MP’s at Westminster in favour of Scottish independence.

Yet they continue to be ignored and scorned. The individuals you have chosen to express your opinions, and champion your views, you the people of Scotland, are insulted. The very mention of St Andrews Day by a Scottish MP resulted in boos and hissing from the childish privileged public school educated benches across the floor.

The referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union is a prime example of the people of Scotland being ignored, invisible, of no consequence or relevance, (unless they are threatening to leave the Union) to the decision-making of the British State.

Facilitated by the Tories, in an effort to pander to the far right UKIP faction of Nigel Farage and Co, the modern-day equivalent of the BNP, near-fascist in their hatred of immigrants, and paranoid about the UK’s European partners, the EU referendum resulted in Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union by 62% to 38% , England and Wales voted to leave.

It would be reasonable then to assume that democratically the people of Scotland should have a say in whether they should remain as part of a trading bloc of 500 million potential customers for Scotland’s goods and services.

No, Theresa May’s UK government has ignored any attempts for this to happen. The Scottish First Minister, after much consultation with European partners and experts in the field, produced a document outlining ways in which firstly the UK itself could escape the ravages of a “hard” Brexit”(leaving the single market and the common justice agreement), and secondly, if the UK didn’t want that, proposals to protect Scotland’s place in Europe, which Scotland’s people have voted resoundingly for. That document is now sitting under a table leg in Downing Street stopping Brexit Minister David Davis’s desk from wobbling.

This same man has admitted recently to a parliamentary select committee that all the preparatory work for Britain’s exit from the EU, analysis reports into the economic impacts on sectors of the UK economy, work that he has previously advised was happening, is in fact false. These reports do not exist. There is an arrogant madness about British State attitudes to foreign relations in the year 2017 which defies credibility.

Scotland stands to lose up to 80,000 jobs as a direct consequence of a ‘hard’ Brexit. No matter you didn’t vote for it, you don’t count, you have no say.

It’s all about immigration. The British government would rather sacrifice their economy than agree to the free movement of foreigners in the UK. They are even now backtracking on the begrudged verbal ‘ gentlemen’s agreement’ made recently on the movement of EU citizens in the U.K which EU negotiators squeezed out of them with their backs to the wall and the clock running out.

Scotland, with an increasingly ageing population, relies on EU citizens coming to live, work and pay taxes in Scotland to help pay for its public services. It needs at least 25,000 immigrants a year to settle and work just to remain economically stable. No matter, you don’t count, you have no say. Don’t worry though, you can have a blue passport.

Why bother, I hear you say, they are all just the same, politicians are only in it for themselves.

You could be living in a country right now where an Independent Labour Party with real Labour values, not the current plastic socialists of Westminster, and Holyrood, are vying with the Greens, the SNP, whatever the SNP becomes after achieving its goal, and a de-Unionised Scottish Conservatives in an independent Scotland, for your vote, by putting forward policies that benefit you, your families, and future generations of Scots. not London and the home counties, not a government who knows you don’t vote for them, which has no need to ever keep any promises to you, or even consider you because arithmetically you literally don’t count, not a government that sees you as a non-entity.

A second independence referendum is coming, the polls are remaining consistent, have no doubt, and when it does it is not the SNP’s referendum or Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum. It is not about political parties, it is your referendum. It’s your future, it’s your children’s future.

If you’ve got this far sincere thanks for taking the time to read this. Please consider the facts. Please do your own research. Please look for balance, don’t just accept what you are told.

Scotland will only really prosper as an independent country, where those you place in charge of government are answerable to you.

Otherwise, you may as well just build another royal yacht.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

12 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Please don't insult people who would rather stay within a union that has served  Scotland well for over three centuries with appeals to emotion over sense. 

No insult from me. I understand you wish to stay with UK and I don't. Quite simple really. 

[JackLadd]

Another election in Italy, Euro sceptics to take control. SNP are rats jumping back aboard a sinking ship. The clueless and ungrateful one issue party. Why did the good people of Gordon and Moray boot out blowhards Salmond and Robertson?  Not up to snuff that's why. Sturgeon's agenda is anti UK,  to do down Britain any way she can,  and ignore the job she's paid to do. She would be booted out also, no doubt to be replaced by Mhairi Bleck or Humza Yousaf. The whole rotten lot are third rate and only good at lies.

[Yoda]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

It is a myth to believe the new independent Scottish economy would be exactly the same in every shape and form as it is today. 

Correct, it will be significantly worse off when RBS, Standard Life, BoS etc relocate over the border.  Edinburgh Wollen Mill have just moved their HQ from Scotland to England, no doubt for tax reasons.

 

Having higher tax rates in Scotland will push businesses into England.

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

No insult from me. I understand you wish to stay with UK and I don't. Quite simple really. 

 

You can tell the people who want to sit back and just coast through life, quite happy, never done anything with their lives, never achieved anything of any significance, never want to achieve anything and ultimately never will.

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You can tell the people who want to sit back and just coast through life, quite happy, never done anything with their lives, never achieved anything of any significance, never want to achieve anything and ultimately never will.

 

That metaphor has a flip side. Losing the house on a reckless gamble that was not driven by logic.

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Correct, it will be significantly worse off when RBS, Standard Life, BoS etc relocate over the border.  Edinburgh Wollen Mill have just moved their HQ from Scotland to England, no doubt for tax reasons.

 

Having higher tax rates in Scotland will push businesses into England.

 

When are the banks and insurance companies moving?

 

Higher taxes can work both ways, companies need infrastructure and happy people with good education and social policies. You've been listening to too much neocon Thacherite stuff, I'm guessing you are a wee bit younger. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

That metaphor has a flip side. Losing the house on a reckless gamble that was not driven by logic.

 

Logic?

You have no drive or ambition to better yourself, just coast along getting handouts as you have admitted. What a way to live your life.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Scotlands MP’s are about to get cut from 59 to 53. 

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/527233/calls-scrap-outrageous-plan-cut-number-scots-mps/

 

This “influence” is getting smaller and smaller. 

Proportional to population - reasonable given that Scottish MPs can vote on many matters affecting England while the reverse is not the case. And (though not inspiring examples) the Lib Dems and DUP have demonstrated that much smaller groups can influence UK politics as of course Scottish MPs did before they became largely one issue politicians.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/12/29/consider-the-facts/

 

 

Now, if you are someone living in Scotland whose viewpoint is straight down the line of seeing yourself as being first and foremost part of an intangible but nevertheless exceptional place called Britain the following text is not geared towards you.

It is not geared towards you because there will never be any circumstances or events impacting Scotland that will change your opinion. The British state can do anything to you, or to others ostensibly on your behalf, and you’ll accept it, taking the view that you trust what they are doing is for the best for your country, which for you is Britain.

You may consider yourself a proud Scot, a phrase repeated ad nauseam by an element of No voters in 2014 but you see Scotland as only a part of some other entity, an entity which you must think Scotland cannot thrive without. Fair enough, that’s your view. There’s no point of flogging a deed coo.

However, for everybody else who is currently not an advocate for Scotland returning to its rightful state as an independent country, those who have no strong views on the sovereignty of Scotland, those who voted No in the September 14 referendum without strong convictions, those who have not been convinced otherwise in the period since then, ladies and gentlemen please I beg your indulgence for just a few minutes.

First up, a bit of an example for you, of which there are many, of the type of behaviour demonstrated by hose who have control over decision-making for your country, for you, and for your family, the British State.

40 odd years ago vast reserves of a precious natural resource were discovered in the waters around Scotland, as were similarly found in the waters of our neighbour Norway. Norway, taking the sensible approach to this massive windfall of good fortune decided, after some thought, to greatly benefit their citizens by creating an ‘oil fund’ from the tax receipts gained from the extraction of this resource. They then used this fund to create an extensive gold star quality network of public services, a welfare system based on need, and a first class public health service facilitating a standard of living envied by other countries.

So much revenue came from this approach that Norway has enough to keep much of that money, earned from its natural resources, aside for a rainy day, when things are tight, when the world has an economic slump, they have a bit put aside to cushion the blow.

So what happened after the discovery of a vast wealth of natural resources in Scotland’s case?

Well, first of all following initial surveys establishing how much oil potentially was actually in Scotland’s waters the British State’s Westminster government rubbed their hands at the prospect of the potential tax revenue the London treasury would receive, Britain could be great again, the decline of a dying empire could be halted, or at least slowed down.

However, as is their way, self protection being paramount at all times, which is how they have survived for so long, they considered the consequences of the people of Scotland finding out that they were sitting on a lottery win beyond their wildest dreams, and they panicked. Would Scotland take the opportunity to break away from the entangled web of Union now that there future prosperity was assured?

With this fear uppermost in their minds the cabinet ministers of the British government then made a conscious decision to throw a veil of secrecy over the facts, to hide the extent of the oil reserves in Scotland’s water from the people of Scotland, a deception which continued for 30 odd years.

If you think what I am writing is fabricated or some sort of conspiracy theory please google ‘The McCrone Report.”

Professor Gavin McCrone at that time was a highly respected UK government economist who wrote a paper about the consequences of Scotland’s extensive reserves of oil . He deduced in his paper that if the people of Scotland had access to the financial benefits of their own natural resource Scotland would be one of the richest countries in the world. His work was buried, stamped confidential for many years, and only saw the light of day after a concerted freedom of information campaign by Scottish politicians. Look it up. Please do.

So what did the government of the UK from London do with all of the money they gained from the tax receipts from the oil found in Scotland’s waters?

The vast amount of revenue gained from tax receipts from oil found in Scotland’s waters was spent financing Margaret Thatcher and her successors golden age of Britain. It built the M25, Canary Wharf, the Channel Tunnel, it financed weapons of mass destruction, it provided the financing that bailed out high risk failures in the City. It ironically paid the unemployment benefits of the vast number of Scots Thatcher’s withering policies put out of work.

The Unionist backed media, (let’s not beat about the bush here, the BBC is an arm of the British State, it is not impartial, it is not providing you with a fair reflection of events, it’s telling you what you need to hear from the perspective of protecting it’s patron. If you don’t believe that go and look up how the BBC World Service is funded, up until 2014 it was directly funded by the Foreign Office in the form of grants) will tell you that according to reports like GERS Scotland is poor and couldn’t possibly survive financially, meanwhile in reality before the oil price dropped, which is now coming back up again, Scotland per head of population contributed each year for several decades to the Exchequer in London far in excess of the monies returned to Scotland to pay for essential public services by way of the block grants Westminster decides Scotland should have.

You have helped keep the rest of the UK afloat for decades, yet as long as the newspapers, who are all owned by individuals or organisations who stand to lose out if Scotland becomes independent, and the unionist broadcast media, tell you that Scotland is the only country in the world who couldn’t possibly govern itself you seem to believe them. Now that the oil price is back on the rise they’ll be telling us it’s running out again, even though we hear pretty regularly about new fields opening up.

Please, I implore you, take a step back, have a think about all of that. Do your own research. Be informed.

That’s a wee insight into the kind of people we are dealing with, who are not interested in yours or my views. They only see Scotland as something they can milk, exploit and take advantage of.

Ok, so you don’t believe that they are not interested in your views? Let’s look at that.

In 2014, when they feared the worst, that the people of Scotland would in fact take control of their own affairs, they promised you the earth. We love you Scotland, don’t leave us, we need you to stay, we need you to lead, Cameron and his cohort said. We’re a family of nations, they said. They promised Devo Max, control of just about every power under the sun apart from foreign affairs and defence. They made Vows, they pleaded with you. You don’t need independence they said, what we’ll give you will be virtually independence, in fact it will be better because you’ll still have the Union.

On the morning after you voted No things changed dramatically. The trap had been sprung. You were invisible again. Suddenly all the rhetoric was about England. Scotland had caved in so they didn’t need to bother about convincing you anymore. It was a day of English Votes for English Laws initiating a clear attempt to change the goalposts so that Scotland could never be so close to so much power ever again, even to the extent that a Scottish politician will never again be Prime Minister.

By voting No you sent Westminster a clear signal that Scotland has no respect for itself therefore it can just be walked all over. The British State only understands power. How do you think they managed to manipulate a quarter of the planet for so long?

Every promise they made you before 18th September 2014 was backtracked on, wormed out of, and diluted, resulting in the farcical half-soaked Smith Commission giving Scotland control over the colour of its signposts, and very little else. Even now, three years later, the Scottish Government has control of only 15% of the public revenue and expenditure of the economy of Scotland. Westminster firmly retains the economic levers of control.

There was, of course, a backlash to all of this dishonesty. In the subsequent General Election, the people of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to send 56 of a possible 59 members of parliament representing Scottish constituencies to Westminster from the party which advocates self-government for Scotland.

The UK government had one, yes one, representative in Scotland, at that time, an odious fellow who has admitted that he does not represent Scotland in Westminster’s government, instead he represents Westminster to the people of Scotland. He also insists that Scotland doesn’t actually exist as a country since it was swallowed up as part of the Act of Union.

He’s still the Secretary of State for Scotland now in 2017 despite having to backtrack on so many promises that he’s made in the past. He has a solid brass neck. Have no doubt, the man in question does not have the interests of the majority of the people of Scotland as his prime motivator. His career prospects and ermine cloaked pension plan are his guiding lights.

This one-off electoral political landslide was subsequently rebalanced following the London Premier Theresa May’s ill-judged snap General Election of this year which resulted in her government losing its majority, and having to scramble around and pay off Northern Irish unionists to support them in parliament.

However in Scotland Unionist parties worked together during the election (hell take you Labour) with no policy agenda other than to stop a second independence referendum, convincing some of an electorate scunnered with elections and referendums to oust some notable scalps from the SNP, who now have 35 seats, still a massive increase on any other period before 2015, and still reflecting the clear majority of Scottish MP’s at Westminster in favour of Scottish independence.

Yet they continue to be ignored and scorned. The individuals you have chosen to express your opinions, and champion your views, you the people of Scotland, are insulted. The very mention of St Andrews Day by a Scottish MP resulted in boos and hissing from the childish privileged public school educated benches across the floor.

The referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union is a prime example of the people of Scotland being ignored, invisible, of no consequence or relevance, (unless they are threatening to leave the Union) to the decision-making of the British State.

Facilitated by the Tories, in an effort to pander to the far right UKIP faction of Nigel Farage and Co, the modern-day equivalent of the BNP, near-fascist in their hatred of immigrants, and paranoid about the UK’s European partners, the EU referendum resulted in Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union by 62% to 38% , England and Wales voted to leave.

It would be reasonable then to assume that democratically the people of Scotland should have a say in whether they should remain as part of a trading bloc of 500 million potential customers for Scotland’s goods and services.

No, Theresa May’s UK government has ignored any attempts for this to happen. The Scottish First Minister, after much consultation with European partners and experts in the field, produced a document outlining ways in which firstly the UK itself could escape the ravages of a “hard” Brexit”(leaving the single market and the common justice agreement), and secondly, if the UK didn’t want that, proposals to protect Scotland’s place in Europe, which Scotland’s people have voted resoundingly for. That document is now sitting under a table leg in Downing Street stopping Brexit Minister David Davis’s desk from wobbling.

This same man has admitted recently to a parliamentary select committee that all the preparatory work for Britain’s exit from the EU, analysis reports into the economic impacts on sectors of the UK economy, work that he has previously advised was happening, is in fact false. These reports do not exist. There is an arrogant madness about British State attitudes to foreign relations in the year 2017 which defies credibility.

Scotland stands to lose up to 80,000 jobs as a direct consequence of a ‘hard’ Brexit. No matter you didn’t vote for it, you don’t count, you have no say.

It’s all about immigration. The British government would rather sacrifice their economy than agree to the free movement of foreigners in the UK. They are even now backtracking on the begrudged verbal ‘ gentlemen’s agreement’ made recently on the movement of EU citizens in the U.K which EU negotiators squeezed out of them with their backs to the wall and the clock running out.

Scotland, with an increasingly ageing population, relies on EU citizens coming to live, work and pay taxes in Scotland to help pay for its public services. It needs at least 25,000 immigrants a year to settle and work just to remain economically stable. No matter, you don’t count, you have no say. Don’t worry though, you can have a blue passport.

Why bother, I hear you say, they are all just the same, politicians are only in it for themselves.

You could be living in a country right now where an Independent Labour Party with real Labour values, not the current plastic socialists of Westminster, and Holyrood, are vying with the Greens, the SNP, whatever the SNP becomes after achieving its goal, and a de-Unionised Scottish Conservatives in an independent Scotland, for your vote, by putting forward policies that benefit you, your families, and future generations of Scots. not London and the home counties, not a government who knows you don’t vote for them, which has no need to ever keep any promises to you, or even consider you because arithmetically you literally don’t count, not a government that sees you as a non-entity.

A second independence referendum is coming, the polls are remaining consistent, have no doubt, and when it does it is not the SNP’s referendum or Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum. It is not about political parties, it is your referendum. It’s your future, it’s your children’s future.

If you’ve got this far sincere thanks for taking the time to read this. Please consider the facts. Please do your own research. Please look for balance, don’t just accept what you are told.

Scotland will only really prosper as an independent country, where those you place in charge of government are answerable to you.

Otherwise, you may as well just build another royal yacht.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/12/29/consider-the-facts/

 

 

 

 

Otherwise, you may as well just build another royal yacht.

 

 

Well at least Nicola would be happy as long as it was built on the Clyde.. (Sorry your post deserved a lot better but I couldn't resist).

Is it still SNP policy that we should continue after independence to be subjects of our Anglo-German monarchy?

Edited May 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Pans Jambo]

59 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Another election in Italy, Euro sceptics to take control. SNP are rats jumping back aboard a sinking ship. The clueless and ungrateful one issue party. Why did the good people of Gordon and Moray boot out blowhards Salmond and Robertson?  Not up to snuff that's why. Sturgeon's agenda is anti UK,  to do down Britain any way she can,  and ignore the job she's paid to do. She would be booted out also, no doubt to be replaced by Mhairi Bleck or Humza Yousaf. The whole rotten lot are third rate and only good at lies.

You sitting in Tory party HQ typing this shite?

havent seen you post on anything other than SNP bashing! Yet another NO cyber agitator type trying to brainwash the masses. 

 

Why do you feel that the people of Scotland cant actually run Scotland better than Westminster? I just dont get your sort & never will. 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Proportional to population - reasonable given that Scottish MPs can vote on many matters affecting England while the reverse is not the case. And (though not inspiring examples) the Lib Dems and DUP have demonstrated that much smaller groups can influence UK politics as of course Scottish MPs did before they became largely one issue politicians.

 

Guess you missed out EVEL part Francis after 2014, time to gen up on current voting rights in Westminster.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Well at least Nicola would be happy as long as it was built on the Clyde.. (Sorry your post deserved a lot better but I couldn't resist).

Is it still SNP policy that we should continue after independence to be subjects of our Anglo-German monarchy?

You think the SNP will decide anything after a YES vote? They may for a couple of years but I think they will splinter a la UKIP & a Scottish GE will be the fresh start. We can then decide if we want to be a republic or join the EU or bulid a big first minister ship on the clyde ( Yes, I said WE can decide...now doesnt that sound good).

[SpruceBringsteen]

53 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Logic?

You have no drive or ambition to better yourself, just coast along getting handouts as you have admitted. What a way to live your life.

 

I think the Conservatives refer to such people as benefits junkies.

 

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Well at least Nicola would be happy as long as it was built on the Clyde.. (Sorry your post deserved better but I couldn't resist).

Is it still SNP policy that we should continue to be subjects of our Anglo-German monarchy?

 

I didn't really think much of Liz when I was a member of HM Forces Francis and I'm pretty sure I'm going to give her even less thought now, as I have done.

 

Liz is Queen of England anyway, not the UK or Great Britain, she is more than welcome to pop up for a visit when she wants. Makes guid telly viewing for the RWB roasters, keeps them happy.

[JackLadd]

53 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Logic?

You have no drive or ambition to better yourself, just coast along getting handouts as you have admitted. What a way to live your life.

 

It's not me getting the handouts. It's the down at heal dummies that elect people like wee Mhairi that are biting the hand that feeds them. See if Sturgeon pays their invalidity benefit post an Aye vote and for how long.  Where is the money coming from? If it ever happens it will ruin them. Hell mend them I guess. 25 years of deprivation before any improvement occurs they say.  Sturgeon will be long pensioned off and sipping champers by the pool as they lie in the gutter. 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I didn't really think much of Liz when I was a member of HM Forces Francis and I'm pretty sure I'm going to give her even less thought now, as I have done.

 

Liz is Queen of England anyway, not the UK or Great Britain, she is more than welcome to pop up for a visit when she wants. Makes guid telly viewing for the RWB roasters, keeps them happy.

I thought SNP policy was that she should be Queen of Scotland. And that Charles and William etc etc will succeed her. Or have I got that wrong?

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

It's not me getting the handouts. It's the down at heal dummies that elect people like wee Mhairi that are biting the hand that feeds them. See if Sturgeon pays their invalidity benefit post an Aye vote and for how long.  Where is the money coming from? If it ever happens it will ruin them. Hell mend them I guess. 25 years of deprivation before any improvement occurs they say.  Sturgeon will be long pensioned off and sipping champers by the pool as they lie in the gutter. 

 

You've got to ask yourself why Glasgow and the West (Paisley) has one of the highest rate of mental illness and invalidity in the UK now considering it was the powerhouse of the Empire for a long time.

 

Whys that?

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

I thought SNP policy was that she should be Queen of Scotland. And that Charles and William etc etc will succeed her. Or have I got that wrong?

 

When are you going to learn SNP "policy" is not the policy of an independent Scotland 2,3,4,5, 10, 20, 100 years etc?

 

It buys you the keys to the house. The Scottish people can decorate it any way they want after that.

[Doogz]

8 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I didn't really think much of Liz when I was a member of HM Forces Francis and I'm pretty sure I'm going to give her even less thought now, as I have done.

Yet you swore an oath of your true allegiance to her .... nice to see you're a man of your word! ?

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

When are you going to learn SNP "policy" is not the policy of an independent Scotland 2,3,4,5, 10, 20, 100 years etc?

 

It buys you the keys to the house. The Scottish people can decorate it any way they want after that.

I understand that and I understand why the SNP doesn't say that they don't have a policy about the monarchy but will leave it entirely up to the Scottish electorate after independence. Perhaps by promising a referendum? How else would a constitutional issue like that be decided?

[JackLadd]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You've got to ask yourself why Glasgow and the West (Paisley) has one of the highest rate of mental illness and invalidity in the UK now considering it was the powerhouse of the Empire for a long time.

 

Whys that?

 

Good supply of peasants. The Weedge sees a bigger hand out as does Dundee. When wee Mhairi tells them I'll get your benefits upped they swallow it.

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Doogz said:

Yet you swore an oath of your true allegiance to her .... nice to see you're a man of your word! ?

 

Imagine being so daft that every working class joined up to die for Queen n Country rather than get a job. Out of the thousands I knew I could count on one hand who joined up for your "vision"

 

You have been watching too much BBC TV sunshine and Trooping the Colour pish.

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I understand that and I understand why the SNP doesn't say that they don't have a policy about the monarchy but will leave it entirely up to the Scottish electorate after independence. Perhaps by promising a referendum? How else would a constitutional issue like that be decided?

 

That is the fairest way, have a vote after. I think there is still a healthy for vote for the monarchy for some reason in Scotland, 70% ish. Keeps the wee Hearts bams I see at away games happy.

[Doogz]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Imagine being so daft that every working class joined up to die for Queen n Country rather than get a job. Out of the thousands I knew I could count on one hand who joined up for your "vision"

 

You have been watching too much BBC TV sunshine and Trooping the Colour pish.

I've never watched Trooping the Colour in my life - I can swear to that but I know that doesn't have any value to you! ?

 

[ri Alban]

23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I understand that and I understand why the SNP doesn't say that they don't have a policy about the monarchy but will leave it entirely up to the Scottish electorate after independence. Perhaps by promising a referendum? How else would a constitutional issue like that be decided?

Guillotine

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Guillotine

That would certainly be an alternative SNP position on the issue!

[Francis Albert]

35 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You've got to ask yourself why Glasgow and the West (Paisley) has one of the highest rate of mental illness and invalidity in the UK now considering it was the powerhouse of the Empire for a long time.

 

Whys that?

Decades of corrupt local Labour politicians probably didn't help.

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

That would certainly be an alternative SNP position on the issue!

 

I think it was used to attract royalists in 2014, it's not really a top 5 issue for me. But one thing's for sure, our crown will be returned to Edinburgh.

Edited May 29, 2018 by ri Alban

[Francis Albert]

59 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Guess you missed out EVEL part Francis after 2014, time to gen up on current voting rights in Westminster.

 

 

EVEL? "Its not about Scotland. It is about locking out Labour from governing the UK - the most narrow minded exercise in partisan constitutionalism in our history". The Independent, when it used to be a newspaper. You underestimate your Tory enemies.

[Space Mackerel]

 

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Decades of corrupt local Labour politicians probably didn't help.

 

Could you not let one of the more junior members answer the direct question? Don't tie their shoelaces for them please. 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

EVEL? "Its not about Scotland. It is about locking out Labour from governing the UK - the most narrow minded exercise in partisan constitutionalism in our history". The Independent, when it used to be a newspaper. You underestimate your Tory enemies.

 

One minute you're saying the SNP to work within the UK and now Labour are being locked out. What is going on?

[3fingersreid]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Imagine being so daft that every working class joined up to die for Queen n Country rather than get a job. Out of the thousands I knew I could count on one hand who joined up for your "vision"

 

You have been watching too much BBC TV sunshine and Trooping the Colour pish.

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

[Pans Jambo]

7 hours ago, Doogz said:

Yet you swore an oath of your true allegiance to her .... nice to see you're a man of your word! ?

What about the oaths that MPs take? 

Theyre supposed to work in our interests. Not their own. Hows that working out???

Edited May 30, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Thunderstruck]

51 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

What about the oaths that MPs take? 

Theyre supposed to work in our interests. Not their own. Hows that working out???

 

And MSPs - are they working in all our interests? The interests of all electors or even just the majority of electors?

[Space Mackerel]

25 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

And MSPs - are they working in all our interests? The interests of all electors or even just the majority of electors?

 

Maybe the Tory MP’s in Scotland should pay heed to this info graphic then? I’m doing this right? 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

One minute you're saying the SNP to work within the UK and now Labour are being locked out. What is going on?

When did I say "the SNP to work within the UK"? The main if not sole political purpose of the SNP is to destroy the UK.

The "EVEL" answer to the West Lothian question means that English MPS in their own Grand Committee can veto legislation passed by the UK Parliament on devolved matters. It a constitutionally messy but a consequence of devolution. It entrenches the power of the hated "Tories" in England, something which the SNP has also contributed to on a UK wide basis through its bag of Westminster MPs. Independence will of course further entrench evil Tory rule. Which you will say is the fault of a lot of the the English and of course Scotland is entitled if it chooses to escape that and create a fairer and more equal society.

But those opposed to independence are equally entitled to the view that rather than abandon their fellow citizens of over 300 years to their fate, an alternative of working with other UK citizens to achieve a fairer and more equitably society for 60m rather than 5m (which Scotland and Wales have made significant contributions to in the past) would be a better alternative.

(Incidentally as a long standing Scottish immigrant in England I have no say in the question of independence and rightly so - I hate the Sean Connery attitude of being an outspoken Scottish Nationalist who chooses not to live there)

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Maybe the Tory MP’s in Scotland should pay heed to this info graphic then? I’m doing this right? 

 

 

 

Remind me, did the number of Tory MPs in Scotland rise or fall after that Referendum result?

 

While you are at it, remind us which Party’s  support formed the largest part of the “Leave” vote in Scotland. 

[Arnold Rothstein]

7 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Something about fish?

[Doogz]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

What about the oaths that MPs take? 

Theyre supposed to work in our interests. Not their own. Hows that working out???

Professional politicians pretty much lie for a living- am I happy about that? no, but it's pretty much what I've come to expect. 

It would be nice if we could hold ourselves to a higher standards but sadly some users feel the need to continually post misleading and out of context links to try and push their argument. When challenged on this they either ignore it, resort to insults or posting more spurious links.

 

If you truly believe in Indy or Better Together then lets at least try to have an open and honest discussion without all the insults and misinformation. 

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Remind me, did the number of Tory MPs in Scotland rise or fall after that Referendum result?

 

While you are at it, remind us which Party’s  support formed the largest part of the “Leave” vote in Scotland. 

 

But they should be working for their constituents right, like you said?

 

Seen Ruth’s new ideas now about immigration and tax rises announced last night? She’s flip flopped again  

[Thunderstruck]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

But they should be working for their constituents right, like you said?

 

Seen Ruth’s new ideas now about immigration and tax rises announced last night? She’s flip flopped again  

 

They’re not?

 

But, as usual, you skipped the original question - are MSPs (the SNP MSPs) working for their constituents, all of them?