Minimum unit pricing

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Well your words to me didn’t make a lot of sense either apart from the post where you lost your shit   Ye raging that yir now exposed as just another snp hater or are you a seething mess cos yir frosty jacks is 15 bucks a pop? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Last week someone with a drink problem was paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, this week they are still paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, and they still have a drink problem.

 

This legislation is only going to affect those people at the lower end of the social ladder, who for one reason or another can only afford the cheap cider, wine, beer & spirits, it will not have any effect upon the vast majority of people who also have a drink problem but will be unaffected by minimum pricing.

 

Something had to be done, I'm just not convinced that this was the way forward, especially since it will only target the poorest in society and leave everyone else relatively unaffected, and as we all know, alcohol abuse or dependency affects every social grouping in the country, not just the poor. 

 

apparently the heaviest drinkers are in the 55 -64 age group and of all different social classes.  

[Jambo-Jimbo]

24 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

apparently the heaviest drinkers are in the 55 -64 age group and of all different social classes.  

 

Exactly, yet they are not the perceived age group which the public automatically thinks are the heaviest drinkers, and whilst there will be some who will drink cheap cider & wine, most probably won't, therefore are not the target of the minimum pricing.

 

Being in this age group myself, I can categorically state that I have never ever bought a cheap bottle of cider or wine, mind not liking either of them might also have something to do with it.  

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, Stokesy said:

 

If I'd known about that tosser when I originally signed up for this forum I would have chosen a different username!

 

Change it.

 

Tip: Don't choose Deeks or Fat JOS.

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Well your words to me didn’t make a lot of sense either apart from the post where you lost your shit   Ye raging that yir now exposed as just another snp hater or are you a seething mess cos yir frosty jacks is 15 bucks a pop? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Maybe (maybe) they should target the blue plastic bag brigade that sell all the cheap vodka, cider etc to under 18’s. The small paper shops & convienience corner shops. 

Remove their licence to sell it. Problem solved!

 

That would perhaps help, remove the ease which alcohol is available, especially to the under 18's, however, and perhaps it would be better to try and understand the reasons why some under 18's want to get blootered all the time in the first place.

 

I don't think there is one single answer to Scotland's problem with drink, it's a cultural thing and has been so for a long long time, until the culture changes, then it'll be nigh near impossible to change people's mindsets concerning alcohol.

 

Still a start has to be made.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Maybe (maybe) they should target the blue plastic bag brigade that sell all the cheap vodka, cider etc to under 18’s. The small paper shops & convienience corner shops. 

Remove their licence to sell it. Problem solved!

Fair point.

[SE16 3LN]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Well your words to me didn’t make a lot of sense either apart from the post where you lost your shit   Ye raging that yir now exposed as just another snp hater or are you a seething mess cos yir frosty jacks is 15 bucks a pop? 

I've no idea what that even means.

[Space Mackerel]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Well your words to me didn’t make a lot of sense either apart from the post where you lost your shit   Ye raging that yir now exposed as just another snp hater or are you a seething mess cos yir frosty jacks is 15 bucks a pop? 

 

Savage

[Rocco_Jambo]

7 hours ago, Stokesy said:

 

I think this is fairly accurate. However, I think that the new legislation will target those that have the highest negative impact on society as a whole as opposed to only themselves and their families. This might be biased on my part but I don't think that the alcoholics that are drinking the more expensive beverages tend to get pissed on park benches then start a fight with anyone that glances in their direction.

 

People sitting on park benches pissed and assaulting folk will happen far less than people sitting on their couch pissed assaulting their partner.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Pissed off with it TBH, my wheat beers at 5% seem to be ok but maybe once a month I'll buy a 2 litre flagon of Westons Old Rosie cider at 7.3%, its a nice what I would call proper cider, not the sort of stuff you see jakeys swilling or teenagers under the chute in the swingpark, but its still went up 50%, £5 to £7.50. Not the end of the world admittedly but I can see me stocking up when we visit the wifes family in Northumberland.

PS. the 2 litres would last a couple of days

[Mark_Mywords]

4 hours ago, bikerjambo said:

Pissed off with it TBH, my wheat beers at 5% seem to be ok but maybe once a month I'll buy a 2 litre flagon of Westons Old Rosie cider at 7.3%, its a nice what I would call proper cider, not the sort of stuff you see jakeys swilling or teenagers under the chute in the swingpark, but its still went up 50%, £5 to £7.50. Not the end of the world admittedly but I can see me stocking up when we visit the wifes family in Northumberland.

PS. the 2 litres would last a couple of days

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 hours ago, bikerjambo said:

Pissed off with it TBH, my wheat beers at 5% seem to be ok but maybe once a month I'll buy a 2 litre flagon of Westons Old Rosie cider at 7.3%, its a nice what I would call proper cider, not the sort of stuff you see jakeys swilling or teenagers under the chute in the swingpark, but its still went up 50%, £5 to £7.50. Not the end of the world admittedly but I can see me stocking up when we visit the wifes family in Northumberland.

PS. the 2 litres would last a couple of days

 

As should my beers also, however it would be naive to believe that it'll remain at 50p a unit for evermore, don't be shocked if/when it rises to 60p then 75p then £1 per unit, and especially so if/when they discover a way to filter that money into the government coffers.

 

[Don Dan]

3 hours ago, Mark_Mywords said:

 

 

 

 

The Road North from the English border.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[H2]

20 hours ago, XB52 said:

And every expert not connected to the drink industry agrees that this will work. More needs to be done but this is a good start

 

19 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

No they don't 

 

Regretfully that is the way politics work in Scotland now, people make unfounded statements, and other people  believe them.

 

There are so many other things to take into account that might be ignored. For example, will crime go up, will people rob to get the money to pay for the more expensive drink?

And arguements for - it might improve socialability, people might go out more rather than stay home for cheap drink, and waste time on Kickback getting involved in pointless arguements. (Do I need an emicon here?)

[H2]

4 hours ago, Mark_Mywords said:

 

 

 

 

LOL - I think when I change my car it'll be an Estate for the Booze Cruise to Carlisle or Berwick!

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, H2 said:

 

 

Regretfully that is the way politics work in Scotland now, people make unfounded statements, and other people  believe them.

 

There are so many other things to take into account that might be ignored. For example, will crime go up, will people rob to get the money to pay for the more expensive drink?

And arguements for - it might improve socialability, people might go out more rather than stay home for cheap drink, and waste time on Kickback getting involved in pointless arguements. (Do I need an emicon here?)

I think that’s why they’ve got this 5 year thing where they’ll look at it again and see it it’s made any positive difference. 

I don’t think anybody can say with any certainty whether it will or won’t. 

The drinks manufacturers should be taken to task for making and selling potent jungle juice for £3 anyway. Massively irresponsible. 

[El Diez]

Just looking at our weekly online shop.

 

A few bottles of wine as usual and some beers.

 

Think the difference from last week is less than £2.

 

I’ll survive.

[H2]

11 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The drinks manufacturers should be taken to task for making and selling potent jungle juice for £3 anyway. Massively irresponsible. 

I can't disagree with that.

[Stuart Lyon]

Like the 20mph situation no doubt the 5 year review will be bursting with stats about how many lives have been saved by this legislation.

[deesidejambo]

2 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Like the 20mph situation no doubt the 5 year review will be bursting with stats about how many lives have been saved by this legislation.

Isn’t the 20 mph thing more about reducing emissions?

 

But now you mention it, both the introduction of average speed cameras and the reduction of the drink-drive limits are intended to cut road deaths.    If the data shows this has happened then fine by me.   But if not then review as to their effectiveness is needed.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Isn’t the 20 mph thing more about reducing emissions?

 

But now you mention it, both the introduction of average speed cameras and the reduction of the drink-drive limits are intended to cut road deaths.    If the data shows this has happened then fine by me.   But if not then review as to their effectiveness is needed.

I just can’t get behind that 20mph thing. 

Absolute ****ing nonsense to have you driving everywhere in town at that speed it’s just not necessary. 

It will increase emissions imo you can’t get out of 3rd gear if you adhered to it? 

Whoever came up with that one needs a severe slap. 

[deesidejambo]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I just can’t get behind that 20mph thing. 

Absolute ****ing nonsense to have you driving everywhere in town at that speed it’s just not necessary. 

It will increase emissions imo you can’t get out of 3rd gear if you adhered to it? 

Whoever came up with that one needs a severe slap. 

I agree - driving along the Meadows in second gear is stupid.

 

i researched the data - the number of road deaths in 2016 jumped significantly compared to 2015.   There is data scatter but the trend over recent years is flat.     And the Govts target is very unlikely to be met.

 

Will be interesting to see the drop in cheap booze sales though.  Surely that must happen?

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

I agree - driving along the Meadows in second gear is stupid.

 

i researched the data - the number of road deaths in 2016 jumped significantly compared to 2015.   There is data scatter but the trend over recent years is flat.     And the Govts target is very unlikely to be met.

 

Will be interesting to see the drop in cheap booze sales though.  Surely that must happen?

You’d imagine so mate. Five years to wait and then each side will likely produce their own data for another bun fight about it, canny wait. 

[The Treasurer]

If you think this minimum pricing is ridiculous, just wait until you see the effect of the sugar tax on the price of cider.

And I'm not talking about your White Lightning or Frosty Jack 

[deesidejambo]

4 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

If you think this minimum pricing is ridiculous, just wait until you see the effect of the sugar tax on the price of cider.

And I'm not talking about your White Lightning or Frosty Jack 

Sugar tax?    You are of course kidding.

[The Treasurer]

2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Sugar tax?    You are of course kidding.

No

[Stuart Lyon]

deesidejambo the 20mph limit is designed to make the streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists! It is just the latest in the City of Edinburgh's anti-car campaign which they have been waging since they lost a referendum on the introduction of congestion charging. Having been defeated in that referendum they steadfastly refuse to hold any others that might be rejected e.g. vanity trams, 20mph limits and fixed cycleways.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Stuart Lyon

[deesidejambo]

6 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

No

Fks sake they will ban tossing-off in public parks next!

 

Nanny State.

Edited May 4, 2018 by deesidejambo

[Don Dan]

Evidence now appearing that alcoholics (those on the cheap stuff) now turning to GPs to help as the increased cost of cheap booze is causing them withdrawal problems. 

[Cade]

16 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Evidence now appearing that alcoholics (those on the cheap stuff) now turning to GPs to help as the increased cost of cheap booze is causing them withdrawal problems. 

Withdrawal will pass in a few weeks.

Then they'll not be as unhealthy as before.

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

Withdrawal will pass in a few weeks.

Then they'll not be as unhealthy as before.

Not for genuine alcoholics it won’t. Alcoholism is a serious illness and they simply can’t just stop in a few weeks.

 

But agree they do need help so it’s. GP issue.

[vegas-voss]

55 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

If you think this minimum pricing is ridiculous, just wait until you see the effect of the sugar tax on the price of cider.

And I'm not talking about your White Lightning or Frosty Jack 

I thought sugar tax was soft drinks only

[Mr Brightside]

Is there a risk that this law will increase alcohol consumption for some people?

 

Someone who was previously buying cheap cider might now buy a bottle of vodka or gin instead as it will only be a couple of pound more expensive than the increased price of the cider.

 

At 50p a unit it works in making the nasty stuff too expensive to bother with but if was to increase to above 75p it would start affecting most people who drink wine / beer which I don’t think is the point.

 

I think the the real measure of its success would be a decrease in alcohol related violence and nuisance, and alcohol related health issues.  If these don’t decrease then  another mechanism is needed to tackle the issue.

[Rocco_Jambo]

They will measure success by whether alcohol off licence sales are down. Regardless of whether sales in pubs, online sales or people are going across the border.

[The Brow]

Yet again, the policy of government in the UK is to come at a problem from the wrong angle. Making things more expensive or illegal doesn't work. Ever.

 

Try tackling the reasons for folk being alcoholics. This wont stop anyone drinking.  

[Bridge of Djoum]

So, we can all agree this mainly affects daft wee tracksuit wearing fuds.

 

**** em, who cares?

[SpruceBringsteen]

Can get a pint for about £2 here. 

 

[Mr Brightside]

6 hours ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

They will measure success by whether alcohol off licence sales are down. Regardless of whether sales in pubs, online sales or people are going across the border.

I think that would be pretty pointless if levels of alcohol related crime and alcohol related health issues remain the same.

 

[Stuart Lyon]

If after the review in 5 years time they decide that it hasn't worked will they bring the price of drink down again - I don't think so!

[deesidejambo]

3 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

If after the review in 5 years time they decide that it hasn't worked will they bring the price of drink down again - I don't think so!

True.   They are stuck with it regardless.

 

Also the drink-drive limits didn’t work either, with road fatalities significantly increased last year despite Govt trying to spin it away.

[JudyJudyJudy]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 08:40, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

As should my beers also, however it would be naive to believe that it'll remain at 50p a unit for evermore, don't be shocked if/when it rises to 60p then 75p then £1 per unit, and especially so if/when they discover a way to filter that money into the government coffers.

 

Yep this will happen. 

[jack D and coke]

5 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

If after the review in 5 years time they decide that it hasn't worked will they bring the price of drink down again - I don't think so!

But it’s the retailers who are making the money not the government so there’s no gain for them. Otherwise I’d have agreed. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

But it’s the retailers who are making the money not the government so there’s no gain for them. Otherwise I’d have agreed. 

You are correct. 

A lot of people thought the government would get the money. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

31 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

But it’s the retailers who are making the money not the government so there’s no gain for them. Otherwise I’d have agreed. 

 

If the/any government can find a way to divert future increases into their coffers, they will.

 

[Cade]

The govt can't get the money, as that would be a tax in the form of extra alcohol duty.

 

Which is a reserved matter for Westminster.

[John Findlay]

14 hours ago, The Brow said:

Yet again, the policy of government in the UK is to come at a problem from the wrong angle. Making things more expensive or illegal doesn't work. Ever.

 

Try tackling the reasons for folk being alcoholics. This wont stop anyone drinking.  

Ban alcohol altogether.  Simple.

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Ban alcohol altogether.  Simple.

Prohibition doesn’t work.    

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

Prohibition doesn’t work.    

As long as there is alcohol there will be alcoholics. Alcoholics from all walks of life. Rich, poor, well educated, uneducated. Humans are fallible and always will be.

[Stuart Lyon]

I meant the government would'nt repeal the minimum pricing law if it is deemed unsuccessful!