Minimum unit pricing

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

You do know alcoholics come from all walks of life?

 

Indeed I do, but it's obvious that you didn't read what I wrote correctly, as you would have noticed that I was repeating what some dude was saying on the TV, and not my own thoughts.

[cannonfoda]

39 minutes ago, Cade said:

Another solution would be for manufacturers to simply lower the alcohol content of their products.

Keeps prices as they are, you can still tan 8 pints on a friday night and the only result is you have less blackouts/less of a hangover the morning after.

Can't see drinks producers going to the hassle of making special weaker brew for sale in Scotland though.

 

 

Some already have but dont tell you...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41059610

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/carling-alcohol-volume-lower-than-advertised-tribunal-tax-hmrc-a7914731.html

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

An issue which no doubt increased due to them also banning happy hours and promotional deals in pubs several years ago.

 

I think that has actually pushed binging up. As do the early closing of pubs and bars. Increasingly I am of the view that we should be allowing pubs to be open later into the night - past 1am and perhaps closing at 3am. Certainly it would allow for a more staggered drinking culture perhaps less conscious of the "the bell will go soon" style.

 

Plus cultivating a 24 hour economy would be no bad thing.

 

Countering bad drinking habits could well be helped by a return to pubs and bars and social drinking. The self policing model.

[Space Mackerel]

If the weather/daylight was better then maybe we won’t have all these problems with booze.

 

Its a well known fact the higher north you are all around the circumference of the globe, the more the population has a peev. 

[Ulysses]

Won't this only affect skanger drinking?  My craft beer boozing habit culinary interest won't get any more expensive, will it?

[Harry Potter]

This might help the pubs get back on track.

[JamboX2]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Won't this only affect skanger drinking?  My craft beer boozing habit culinary interest won't get any more expensive, will it?

 

Spot on. Aim is to hit the Frosty Jacks brigade. Not your middle class wine and craft beer drinking lot. 

[jack D and coke]

14 hours ago, Smithee said:

Pretty much where I am. Obviously they mean well but this does little to tackle the reasons why we binge drink in the first place. 

I don't like the authoritarian overtones with this either, well meaning or not, and it seems ridiculous to make retailers charge more rather than applying more tax and diverting that money to things like alcohol education and treatment. 

It’s a reserved issue isn’t it? Duty on alcohol I mean? 

Dont think they can alter that. 

I don’t like authoritarian policies myself but Scotland has a problem with drink, a huge, huge problem and maybe this doesn’t go far enough tbh. 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Won't this only affect skanger drinking?  My craft beer boozing habit culinary interest won't get any more expensive, will it?

 

It shouldn't, however call me a cynic but the way is open for retailers to slyly add an extra 10p, 20p, 25p or so onto a bottle of craft beer and blame it on minimum pricing. 

 

The average price I pay for a bottle of beer is usually between £2.50 - £3 per bottle, so minimum pricing should have no effect whatsoever on that price, but I remain to be convinced.

[whodanny]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It shouldn't, however call me a cynic but the way is open for retailers to slyly add an extra 10p, 20p, 25p or so onto a bottle of craft beer and blame it on minimum pricing. 

 

The average price I pay for a bottle of beer is usually between £2.50 - £3 per bottle, so minimum pricing should have no effect whatsoever on that price, but I remain to be convinced.

This. I can see some unscrupulous pub landlords taking advantage too. Already heard about one of the pubs near me saying prices might have to rise. Will be their undoing though, most folk saying they're already too pricey.

[Unknown user]

23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a reserved issue isn’t it? Duty on alcohol I mean? 

Dont think they can alter that. 

I don’t like authoritarian policies myself but Scotland has a problem with drink, a huge, huge problem and maybe this doesn’t go far enough tbh. 

 

Is that right? That would make it more difficult right enough, but like you I still don't see this as the answer. If it couldn't be tax, surely there could be another way - maybe require supermarkets to pay a small percentage of alcohol income to an education programme as a condition of their licence or something. Where there's a will there's a way!

 

I agree the problem's huge, I'd love to have the answer myself

[Restonbabe]

It's a pack of 20 cans for a session that's gonna cost £18 that's a killer. 

Could go to the pub and get smashed on that. So hopefully it will entice more people out to the pub instead of purchasing a slab in the house. 

 

On the other hand Berwick for me is 7 miles away so I have the luxury of cross border pricing. 

Asda Dunbar £19.80 for an 18 pack of lager

Morrisons Berwick 3x 12 pack of lager for £21

So for an extra £1.20 you can get an extra 18 cans. 

[Lambo85]

2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Spot on. Aim is to hit the Frosty Jacks brigade. Not your middle class wine and craft beer drinking lot. 

 

Agreed however we are not going to see any more deals on crates of lager anymore.

 

I am hosting a birthday BBQ in a few weeks time and its going to cost £19 for a 20 pack of lager where as before you could get deals for about £10.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Lambo85

[SE16 3LN]

If the nanny state wanted to cover your arse with talcum powder you lot would lap it up. 

 

I predict this will have no impact on levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland and will lead to an illegal trade in cheap alcohol.  

 

In all honesty I don't care.

[Unknown user]

Just now, SE16 3LN said:

If the nanny state wanted to cover your arse with talcum powder you lot would lap it up. 

 

I predict this will have no impact on levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland and will lead to an illegal trade in cheap alcohol.  

 

In all honesty I don't care.

Who is "you lot" exactly?

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

If the nanny state wanted to cover your arse with talcum powder you lot would lap it up. 

 

I predict this will have no impact on levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland and will lead to an illegal trade in cheap alcohol.  

 

In all honesty I don't care.

That's the spirit 

[Victorian]

12 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

If the nanny state wanted to cover your arse with talcum powder you lot would lap it up. 

 

I predict this will have no impact on levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland and will lead to an illegal trade in cheap alcohol.  

 

In all honesty I don't care.

 

Doesn't quite explain why other governments are considering similar measures but hey-ho.     There's always some people who insist they know better than expert opinion from academics,  health professionals,  advisors,  etc etc.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Victorian

[deesidejambo]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Doesn't quite explain why other governments are considering similar measures but hey-ho.     There's always some people who insist they know better than expert opinion from academics,  health professionals,  advisors,  etc etc.

It is worth trying but it is far from certain it will work as there are a number of potential unintended consequences.

 

The crime and buying of illicit booze for a start.    Genuine alcoholics may start to either brew or distill their own, or buy on black market.    

 

And the wierd paradox that supermarkets get to retain the profits so it is in their interests to promote the sales of the affected booze as they get a huge margin on them!   

 

But monitoring will be easy.  We know how much is currently sold   from supermarket data.  In three months check if that has reduced compared to the same period in previous years.

 

If the volume is reduced and not offset by increases in other alcohol sales then I’m ok with it.

 

 

[tian447]

13 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fizz-out-alcohol-sales-at-8pm-q3mrq7hh9

 

Nexr? I hope not.

 

I wouldn't mind that at all tbh.  I don't usually keep alcohol in the house, but rather just go round to the shop and pick some up.

 

By the time I finish work, have my dinner, and head to the gym, it would be well past 8pm, meaning I'd never ever drink.   Be much healthier if it were an 8pm cut off! 

 

[Cade]

Some folk going on about this like it's the Prohibition-era USA.

 

It's 50p a unit FFS not a total ban.

Get a grip.

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Doesn't quite explain why other governments are considering similar measures but hey-ho.     There's always some people who insist they know better than expert opinion from academics,  health professionals,  advisors,  etc etc.

 

 

I'm a free thinker.

 

Academics are wankers who live in ivory towers and often know **** all about  the real world. Health professionals are desperate for this to work so they don't have to witness the waste of resources and the human horror of alcohol abuse at the coal face. They don't know if it will make any difference. Advisors, what the **** are they?

 

Sorry Victorian but you need to look at the likelihood that price control will overturn an embedded culture of drinking. to excess.  There will always be sheep who are led by the nose by politicians etc. but my prediction stands. It will have no impact on the levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland.

 

Education on the other hand, might help.

[Bindy Badgy]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Education on the other hand, might help.

1

 

Not sure it will to be honest. I know the health risks associated with binge drinking, I still do it.

[SE16 3LN]

3 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

Not sure it will to be honest. I know the health risks associated with binge drinking, I still do it.

I do it because it's fun, 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Some folk going on about this like it's the Prohibition-era USA.

 

It's 50p a unit FFS not a total ban.

Get a grip.

 

Get a grip FFS, nobody has said that

[XB52]

12 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I think that has actually pushed binging up. As do the early closing of pubs and bars. Increasingly I am of the view that we should be allowing pubs to be open later into the night - past 1am and perhaps closing at 3am. Certainly it would allow for a more staggered drinking culture perhaps less conscious of the "the bell will go soon" style.

 

Plus cultivating a 24 hour economy would be no bad thing.

 

Countering bad drinking habits could well be helped by a return to pubs and bars and social drinking. The self policing model.

Pubs used to close at 9.30,  then 10, then 11. Most pubs up town are now open to 1 anyway. I agree that this move should help the pubs and people would be drinking in a more controlled environment

[Victorian]

55 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

 

I'm a free thinker.

 

Academics are wankers who live in ivory towers and often know **** all about  the real world. Health professionals are desperate for this to work so they don't have to witness the waste of resources and the human horror of alcohol abuse at the coal face. They don't know if it will make any difference. Advisors, what the **** are they?

 

Sorry Victorian but you need to look at the likelihood that price control will overturn an embedded culture of drinking. to excess.  There will always be sheep who are led by the nose by politicians etc. but my prediction stands. It will have no impact on the levels of alcohol abuse in Scotland.

 

Education on the other hand, might help.

 

Nobody has ever claimed a culture will be overturned.    These measures will contribute to reduced abuse and associated societal costs.    No more no less.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Pubs used to close at 9.30,  then 10, then 11. Most pubs up town are now open to 1 anyway. I agree that this move should help the pubs and people would be drinking in a more controlled environment

 

I don't really see the pubs benefiting from this move tbh.

 

The people whom this looks to be primary targetted at, and will affect the most, are the people who drink cheap cider, wine, beer & spirits, and these tend to be people who are too young to drink in the pubs anyway or are alcoholics who get smashed in the house on cheap cider & wine.

Both of these groups rarely if ever went near a pub to begin with, and I can't see this changing because of minimum pricing.

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

The govt's evidence base and policy rationale for minimum unit pricing.

 

Here's a quote:

 

The minimum price of 50p per unit will mostly affect cheap white ciders and value spirits with high alcohol content which tend to be favoured by harmful drinkers.

 

Firstly, I call bollocks on that as a fact. Harmful drinkers come from all walks of life and from all income brackets.

 

Secondly, is the aim of this legislation primarily to tackle chav drinking? Is certainly seems to be saying that. 

 

[SE16 3LN]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Nobody has ever claimed a culture will be overturned.    These measures will contribute to reduced abuse and associated societal costs.    No more no less.

Read the policy rationale

[XB52]

10 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The govt's evidence base and policy rationale for minimum unit pricing.

 

Here's a quote:

 

The minimum price of 50p per unit will mostly affect cheap white ciders and value spirits with high alcohol content which tend to be favoured by harmful drinkers.

 

Firstly, I call bollocks on that as a fact. Harmful drinkers come from all walks of life and from all income brackets.

 

Secondly, is the aim of this legislation primarily to tackle chav drinking? Is certainly seems to be saying that. 

 

All evidence points to reduced problem drinking. There is a 5 year review on this legislation to see if it is having the desired effect. I really can't see any downside to this 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

All evidence points to reduced problem drinking. There is a 5 year review on this legislation to see if it is having the desired effect. I really can't see any downside to this 

 

The 5-year review is a good idea.        Because there are potential downsides.

 

Increased crime to find the increased costs.

Development of a black market.

Supermarkets cashing in and promoting sales due to the now large margins.

 

As I've repeatedly said, this is worth trying to see wnhat the outcome is and it may work, but to blindly assume there are no downsides is a bit naive.      

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Very much in support of this and I'd like to see the UK government do the same. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be going out on the piss but you can't knock the SNP for taking on what is a big health issue.

[SwindonJambo]

16 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Folk greeting about how melted oot their nuts they can get.

 

 

 

 I 've laughed and agreed with 2 posts you've made less than a week apart.  Worrying times.....  

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

All evidence points to reduced problem drinking. There is a 5 year review on this legislation to see if it is having the desired effect. I really can't see any downside to this 

Criminalising people who've got **** all and  the possibility of increasing risk taking behaviour. Never mind there are no downsides.

 

I remember when a draconian response to drug taking led to imprisonment, addiction, Aids and hundreds of deaths so I'm a bit more cautious when the govt. takes a punt with Social Control.

 

In addition, how are they going to measure the "desired effect". Over the next five years we will hear outrageous claims from govt. about how they've eradicated problem behaviour around alcohol.They'll be speaking at conferences around the world and St Sturgeon will be smiling down on us all in front of golden wings. Meanwhile people will continue to get ****ed up on cheap cider and fortified wine imported, legally or illegally, from our near neighbours while the prisons population and hospital wards are full to brimming. 

 

We need something that will work.

[XB52]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Criminalising people who've got **** all and  the possibility of increasing risk taking behaviour. Never mind there are no downsides.

 

I remember when a draconian response to drug taking led to imprisonment, addiction, Aids and hundreds of deaths so I'm a bit more cautious when the govt. takes a punt with Social Control.

 

In addition, how are they going to measure the "desired effect". Over the next five years we will hear outrageous claims from govt. about how they've eradicated problem behaviour around alcohol.They'll be speaking at conferences around the world and St Sturgeon will be smiling down on us all in front of golden wings. Meanwhile people will continue to get ****ed up on cheap cider and fortified wine imported, legally or illegally, from our near neighbours while the prisons population and hospital wards are full to brimming. 

 

We need something that will work.

And every expert not connected to the drink industry agrees that this will work. More needs to be done but this is a good start

[gjcc]

2 hours ago, Stokesy said:

 

Not sure it will to be honest. I know the health risks associated with binge drinking, I still do it.

 

And that's the attitude that's had you struggle to hold down a club Stokesy.

[SE16 3LN]

32 minutes ago, XB52 said:

And every expert not connected to the drink industry agrees that this will work. More needs to be done but this is a good start

No they don't 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Criminalising people who've got **** all and  the possibility of increasing risk taking behaviour. Never mind there are no downsides.

 

I remember when a draconian response to drug taking led to imprisonment, addiction, Aids and hundreds of deaths so I'm a bit more cautious when the govt. takes a punt with Social Control.

 

In addition, how are they going to measure the "desired effect". Over the next five years we will hear outrageous claims from govt. about how they've eradicated problem behaviour around alcohol.They'll be speaking at conferences around the world and St Sturgeon will be smiling down on us all in front of golden wings. Meanwhile people will continue to get ****ed up on cheap cider and fortified wine imported, legally or illegally, from our near neighbours while the prisons population and hospital wards are full to brimming. 

 

We need something that will work.

Ah so it’s more snp=bad than anything else??

Now I getcha. 

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Ah so it’s more snp=bad than anything else??

Now I getcha. 

Don't get muggy with me you *****...its a patronising bit of legislation reminiscent of Thatcher with no place in Scottish law

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

Don't get muggy with me you *****...its a patronising bit of legislation reminiscent of Thatcher with no place in Scottish law

Who are you like ya dafty  

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Who are you like ya dafty  

Jack D is saying poor people can't get pished and he's calling me a dafty 

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

 I 've laughed and agreed with 2 posts you've made less than a week apart.  Worrying times.....  

 

Thanks again pal.

 

Some of my posts are serious, some in tongue and cheek and some are when I am actually “melted oot my nut”

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Jack D is saying poor people can't get pished and he's calling me a dafty 

Aye that’s what I said....

[SE16 3LN]

15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Aye that’s what I said....

Try and express yourself with words, you might manage to make yourself understood.

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Try and express yourself with words, you might manage to make yourself understood.

Well your words to me didn’t make a lot of sense either apart from the post where you lost your shit   Ye raging that yir now exposed as just another snp hater or are you a seething mess cos yir frosty jacks is 15 bucks a pop? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Last week someone with a drink problem was paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, this week they are still paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, and they still have a drink problem.

 

This legislation is only going to affect those people at the lower end of the social ladder, who for one reason or another can only afford the cheap cider, wine, beer & spirits, it will not have any effect upon the vast majority of people who also have a drink problem but will be unaffected by minimum pricing.

 

Something had to be done, I'm just not convinced that this was the way forward, especially since it will only target the poorest in society and leave everyone else relatively unaffected, and as we all know, alcohol abuse or dependency affects every social grouping in the country, not just the poor. 

 

[Bindy Badgy]

2 hours ago, gjcc said:

 

And that's the attitude that's had you struggle to hold down a club Stokesy.

 

If I'd known about that tosser when I originally signed up for this forum I would have chosen a different username!

[Bindy Badgy]

32 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Last week someone with a drink problem was paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, this week they are still paying £4.50 for a pint of beer, and they still have a drink problem.

 

This legislation is only going to affect those people at the lower end of the social ladder, who for one reason or another can only afford the cheap cider, wine, beer & spirits, it will not have any effect upon the vast majority of people who also have a drink problem but will be unaffected by minimum pricing.

 

Something had to be done, I'm just not convinced that this was the way forward, especially since it will only target the poorest in society and leave everyone else relatively unaffected, and as we all know, alcohol abuse or dependency affects every social grouping in the country, not just the poor. 

 

 

I think this is fairly accurate. However, I think that the new legislation will target those that have the highest negative impact on society as a whole as opposed to only themselves and their families. This might be biased on my part but I don't think that the alcoholics that are drinking the more expensive beverages tend to get pissed on park benches then start a fight with anyone that glances in their direction.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Stokesy

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

I think this is fairly accurate. However, I think that the new legislation will target those that have the highest negative impact on society as a whole as opposed to only themselves and their families. This might be biased on my part but I don't think that the alcoholics that are drinking the more expensive beverages tend to get pissed on park benches then start a fight with anyone that glances in their direction.

 

There are existing anti-social behaviour and criminal laws in force already, which are supposed to deal with the scenario you mention.

 

[Pans Jambo]

Maybe (maybe) they should target the blue plastic bag brigade that sell all the cheap vodka, cider etc to under 18’s. The small paper shops & convienience corner shops. 

Remove their licence to sell it. Problem solved!