U20 tonight away to Celtic

[Cut The Crap]

A wee rub of the nads there

 

They may say he is 13 but he could be 30. Roger Milla was it? Always a question mark over his actual age!!! Tongue in cheek, but he is very small.

 

I don't think we should compare our Under 20 operation to Celtics to be honest. Every one of these Under 20 forums I say the same thing, it will take years to repair what was essentially left to decay in the darkest days

 

How many years? Genuine question.

 

For example, how long did it take Levein at Dundee United (presumably the closest example we have). And should we be able to do it more quickly than they did?

[Irufushi]

Seen a few clips of dembele on sky sports just now. He looks good!

[Maroonjam]

Seen a few clips of dembele on sky sports just now. He looks good!

He looks class. So much composure for his age. Always hard to tell at his age group but hat off to the young lad getting his chance at higher level. Wish he was in our youth team though!

[DETTY29]

There is no doubt the lad appears to have real talent, but something just doesn't sit right with me.

 

The U20s / Development league is allowed, what is it, 5 overage players.

 

It's an adult league, simple.  I know we have put some kids on the bench in the past too, but what if someone had accidentally broken the kids ankle.  And it's not fair on the guys playing against him that they would likely hold off tackling him, and run the risk off getting the piss taken out of them when under normal circumstances they would win tackles.

 

For the development league and seniors league there should be minimum ages that guys can play.

[hueyview]

Size wise especially, he looks like a midget compared to some of our players. [emoji846]

 

whatchu talkin about willis...............     

[orchardmaroon]

The top clubs are the wrong ones for bringing through youth and unfortunately these are the ones who recruit the best young players. Why any parent lets their kid sign for Celtic or rangers.

totally agree

 

 

 

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[orchardmaroon]

petkov again was shocking, he really looks lost and a wee break away from the team might allow him to work on his weaknesses and then be re-integrated to the team, don't like going after young boys but if he was 5 feet 8" he would not be anywhere close to this squad never mind starting. hopefully the coaches do something sooner as the boys confidence must be close to shattered.

 

i agree that we don't have too many to come from this u20 squad, irving and reid are the best 2 hopes. from our u16s (they are starting for u17s every week) we have 6 or 7 who would walk into most academy teams, they have played 7 or 8 games against u17s and lost 1, when down to 9 men against rangers, rest won or drawn. this is where the next first team players will come from, as long as we don't release them and they end up at hibs.

 

i heard from a parent that every week there is 3-4 scouts watching the u17s, must be doing something right.

better balanced view - watched 16's v Rangers few weeks back and there are at least 5/6 class players there.

 

The under 20's not as good just now but only needs 2/3 per year to progress - don't like foreign players at this age group though. Think Danny tall centre back injured who looked good, Beith making way back, Morrison had we go last year. The tall lad Mclean up front - was he not going to be a star?

 

First team has good youth contingent and for me Walker, Sam and Calum are our most consistent players.

 

Surely Celtic get pick of the players as do Rangers - I think we still have a youth plan and maybe the best to come?

 

 

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[Footballfirst]

better balanced view - watched 16's v Rangers few weeks back and there are at least 5/6 class players there.

 

The under 20's not as good just now but only needs 2/3 per year to progress - don't like foreign players at this age group though. Think Danny tall centre back injured who looked good, Beith making way back, Morrison had we go last year. The tall lad Mclean up front - was he not going to be a star?

 

First team has good youth contingent and for me Walker, Sam and Calum are our most consistent players.

 

Surely Celtic get pick of the players as do Rangers - I think we still have a youth plan and maybe the best to come?

 

It is surprising how much sides can progress (or regress) within a year.  I watched Hearts U15s play Aberdeen at Riccarton just over a week ago, having watched most of the same kids play one another at U14 the previous season.  Last season Hearts U14s lost heavily (something like 4-1 or 5-1), while this season Hearts U15s turned the tables and comfortably won 3-1.

 

What was the difference? Last season's Aberdeen lads who looked pacey and skilful were snuffed out by good defending. Tall lads who dominated physically last year no longer had as much advantage and their lack of pace was shown up. Basically Hearts had improved through good coaching and recruitment, while Aberdeen appeared to have stagnated.

 

It's never too late for any individual player to realise what it takes to make it and work their backsides off to get there.

 

I heard someone taking about Callum Paterson at the weekend. The gist of the conversation was that the Sports Science guys had carried out assessments on Callum (as they do for all players), then gave him the physiological stats for Cristiano Ronaldo, weight, body fat etc.. Callum had then followed their nutritional and training programmes to get him into a better physical shape.  Apparently he has added a couple of stones in weight (muscle) while reducing his body fat accordingly. 

 

It's that sort of mindset and commitment that can turn a promising academy player into a senior internationalist. I'm not too sure that many of the current crop of U20s have that level of determination, with some believing that they have "made it" as a professional footballer simply because they have been given a full time contract. The first full time contract is normally given to kids who have demonstrated good ability and potential. However, it should only be seen as the starting point of working towards a goal of being a first team player, which won't come automatically. Full time training is a step change for the kids and if they are mature enough they will recognise that they are very much at the bottom of a ladder. 

 

I don't think that problem is unique to Hearts. The same applies at all Scottish clubs.

[jambosdad]

Apart from Tierney and maybe Forrest how many current 1st XI players came through the youth system.

We have min 4, lets take a note of the Celtic Team tonight and see how many play for their 1st Team

in 5/6 years.

My guess 1 as they cannot get the level they desire with Scottish Youth.  This is a sad indictment of our football but we are a small country.  Belgium, France and the Netherlands and England have benefited from Immigration integration we have not unfortunately.

[orchardmaroon]

It is surprising how much sides can progress (or regress) within a year. I watched Hearts U15s play Aberdeen at Riccarton just over a week ago, having watched most of the same kids play one another at U14 the previous season. Last season Hearts U14s lost heavily (something like 4-1 or 5-1), while this season Hearts U15s turned the tables and comfortably won 3-1.

 

What was the difference? Last season's Aberdeen lads who looked pacey and skilful were snuffed out by good defending. Tall lads who dominated physically last year no longer had as much advantage and their lack of pace was shown up. Basically Hearts had improved through good coaching and recruitment, while Aberdeen appeared to have stagnated.

 

It's never too late for any individual player to realise what it takes to make it and work their backsides off to get there.

 

I heard someone taking about Callum Paterson at the weekend. The gist of the conversation was that the Sports Science guys had carried out assessments on Callum (as they do for all players), then gave him the physiological stats for Cristiano Ronaldo, weight, body fat etc.. Callum had then followed their nutritional and training programmes to get him into a better physical shape. Apparently he has added a couple of stones in weight (muscle) while reducing his body fat accordingly.

 

It's that sort of mindset and commitment that can turn a promising academy player into a senior internationalist. I'm not too sure that many of the current crop of U20s have that level of determination, with some believing that they have "made it" as a professional footballer simply because they have been given a full time contract. The first full time contract is normally given to kids who have demonstrated good ability and potential. However, it should only be seen as the starting point of working towards a goal of being a first team player, which won't come automatically. Full time training is a step change for the kids and if they are mature enough they will recognise that they are very much at the bottom of a ladder.

 

I don't think that problem is unique to Hearts. The same applies at all Scottish clubs.

All great points - if you are not dedicated now you never will be!! No idea who works their backsides off but there really is no excuse for not working to be the best you can be!

 

I think the raw talent is there from what is see

 

 

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[Footballfirst]

What happened to him? Googled it but nothing seems to be there, he should be 17 now, still at celtic?

 

Still at Celtic.  Scored tonight for Scotland U19s

Scottish FA ?@ScottishFA 53m53 minutes ago

U19s | International Challenge Match Result Scotland 2 - 0 Sweden (Shaw & Hill)

 

The other scorer was Oli Shaw who used to be with us, but is now with Hibs.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Couldn't agree more. With Hearts accruing more cash in the last couple of seasons due to league, cup & Europe runs then they're falling into that old "buy foreign" trap which means no open doors from development for home grown talent.

Aye right enough.

We've made a fortune on European runs in the last few years.

 

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[Ross21]

What happened to him? Googled it but nothing seems to be there, he should be 17 now, still at celtic?

Fairly certain he scored for Scotland 19s against Sweden last night

[Seymour M Hersh]

A couple of thoughts about the Celtic publicity stunt. 1. It could easily be construed as disrespectful to Hearts and 2. I'll bet the 17/18 and 19 year olds left on their bench were well pleased. Still Celtic got all the media hype they'd hoped for so job done.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

A couple of thoughts about the Celtic publicity stunt. 1. It could easily be construed as disrespectful to Hearts and 2. I'll bet the 17/18 and 19 year olds left on their bench were well pleased. Still Celtic got all the media hype they'd hoped for so job done.

Indeed, there are also opposition players playing for their livelihood and futures and would have been wary about going right through him. Imagine being that player, what the press would say!! A hard fair tackle from a strong and powerful 19 year old could break him

[Footballfirst]

Just on a general Development League point. The Rangers v Hibs game that was abandoned last week after one of the assistants took ill at half time has been awarded to Rangers as a 2-1 win (they were ahead 2-1 at the time).  The score has since been recorded in the results section of the SPFL website and the table updated accordingly.

 

Rangers Academy ?@RFC_Youth 19h19 hours ago

Bit of good news pre kick-off at Tannadice - last week's abandoned game v Hibs has been awarded as a 2-1 win for Rangers.

 

I don't know the reasoning for this SPFL decision, given the game was not completed.  Did Hibs refuse to play on without an assistant ref? 

[Footballfirst]

Next game on Monday, at home to the league leaders, Ross County.

[davidkeye]

Just on a general Development League point. The Rangers v Hibs game that was abandoned last week after one of the assistants took ill at half time has been awarded to Rangers as a 2-1 win (they were ahead 2-1 at the time).  The score has since been recorded in the results section of the SPFL website and the table updated accordingly.

 

Rangers Academy ?@RFC_Youth 19h19 hours ago

Bit of good news pre kick-off at Tannadice - last week's abandoned game v Hibs has been awarded as a 2-1 win for Rangers.

 

I don't know the reasoning for this SPFL decision, given the game was not completed.  Did Hibs refuse to play on without an assistant ref? 

Yes that's right. The league can be a mismatch at times depending on how many overage players getting a run out, be that for Rangers, Celtic or even a Ross County etc.

[orchardmaroon]

Think you also need to look at the league in the right context - Hearts seem happy to let the younger players play - Irving, Smith and Reid could all play under 17 this year. Celtic and Rangers never do this despite the young kid and many other clubs are the same.

 

I am more upbeat than some I think but I hope realistic

 

 

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[orchardmaroon]

This is the concern for me. They are clearly more talented than players at other teams but the chances are lots will fall out the game and someone with less talent at the likes of Falkirk will have a better career because they get a chance. We need a system where all the best players progress. Not sure what the answer is. It's something we have failed at for years

this is a brilliantly point and if we do not fix this in Scotland we will never progress - our best talent in the country has to be in a pathway where they can get to the top!

 

Snodgrass, Griffiths and Dorrans all came from same team at Livingston!!

 

 

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[Mikey1874]

You need to play (first team football). But as said it's the desire and application.

[Sarah O]

If you are good enough. You're old enough.

 

 

If he gets broken during a challenge? He could have said. no to playing?

 

 

#devilsadvocate

[meister]

If you are good enough. You're old enough.

 

 

If he gets broken during a challenge? He could have said. no to playing?

 

 

#devilsadvocate

 

If you are good enough you are old enough is true, but I'm not really sure it applies to Dembele in this case. It was a stunt by Celtic an it could have backfired big style, the Hearts players were under no obligation to hold back in challenges on the laddie and regardless of his ability he could have been hurt. Hearts players holding back on tackling because he was 13 years old lowers the integrity of the remainder of the game.

 

Not sure he could have said no either and at 13 years old is probably not mature enough to weigh up the pros and cons of such a situation, if you are given that opportunity as a 13 y/o you'll say yes.

 

Pretty irresponsible by Celtic I'd say but hey, they got their publicity so I suppose it's worked this time.

[132goals1958]

If you are good enough you are old enough is true, but I'm not really sure it applies to Dembele in this case. It was a stunt by Celtic an it could have backfired big style, the Hearts players were under no obligation to hold back in challenges on the laddie and regardless of his ability he could have been hurt. Hearts players holding back on tackling because he was 13 years old lowers the integrity of the remainder of the game.

 

Not sure he could have said no either and at 13 years old is probably not mature enough to weigh up the pros and cons of such a situation, if you are given that opportunity as a 13 y/o you'll say yes.

 

Pretty irresponsible by Celtic I'd say but hey, they got their publicity so I suppose it's worked this time.

 

 

More or less what Scotland,s Children,s commissioner is saying today

[meister]

 

 

If you are good enough you are old enough is true, but I'm not really sure it applies to Dembele in this case. It was a stunt by Celtic an it could have backfired big style, the Hearts players were under no obligation to hold back in challenges on the laddie and regardless of his ability he could have been hurt. Hearts players holding back on tackling because he was 13 years old lowers the integrity of the remainder of the game.

 

Not sure he could have said no either and at 13 years old is probably not mature enough to weigh up the pros and cons of such a situation, if you are given that opportunity as a 13 y/o you'll say yes.

 

Pretty irresponsible by Celtic I'd say but hey, they got their publicity so I suppose it's worked this time.

 

 

More or less what Scotland,s Children,s commissioner is saying today

Saw that this afternoon, glad it's been highlighted. Queue mass defensive reaction from Parkhead though.

[avhudtheteeshirt]

While this young lad Dembele could be one for the future, I think blooding him against others up to 7 years older is total folly.

What if an opposing player was to injure him or just brush him aside, the press and media could have a field day!

If he is a good prospect bring him through in his own age group and once he is physically strong enough try him maybe at 16 or 17.

To push him this early means if he now goes back to the under 14s for games he will be a target for any would be defender to mark his card!!!!!