West Ham

[dc-jambo]

I'll be daan saaf next week so might go to the West Ham v Accrington Stanley match to tick the new stadium off.

 

What are they doing with the Boleyn as a matter of interest ?

flats, flats, glorious flats

[Maroon Sailor]

?10 to get in I believe

That'll do !

 

Have a feeling that might be from ?10 i.e kids and concessions

 

I'll be going from Waterloo when I get to London assuming it's the Jubilee line to Stratford then a bit of a walk to the stadium

[Maroon Sailor]

flats, flats, glorious flats

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958860/From-luxury-flats-branch-Ikea-former-football-stadiums-transformed-hallowed-grounds-day-buildings-long-fans-left.html

 

Bottom of this link shows The Boleyn against the Olympic Stadium

 

A proper football ground

[dc-jambo]

It's clear that West Ham have screwed up massively

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/12/west-ham-united-fans-want-action-london-stadium-segregation-problems-police-presence

 

Their pathetic club statement, promising to ban their own fans for life, says as much

[The Treasurer]

It would appear West Ham have all use rights between August and the end of May. For one month in the summer (end of June to the end of July), Athletics have exclusive use for events like the anniversary games. Essex may be playing 20:20 competitions there at some point in the summer, but that hasn't been announced as far as I know. There has been talk of some gigs and American sports for one off events, but this is hardly shared usage. Nobody has seen the fine print, commercially sensitive apparently, but apart from a few weeks in the summer West Ham can do what the **** they want with it.

 

They will of course make a fortune out of conferences, corporate events etc. etc. etc. I expect some tokenism from Gold and Sullivan, one off community events and so on but they are not going to let anyone on the pitch unless they pay through the nose. Gold announced that there is a clause that will return a percentage to the tax payer should he decide to sell in the future, but he won't say what that percentage is. As I say, the whole thing stinks. There is no gamble involved, its win win for the owners and presumably the modern football club. The "old" fans and the old club can go and **** themselves.

Are you sure about that (re use rights).

My understanding was that West Ham only have exclusive use for match days.

Any conferences etc would be booked and organised by the stadium owners (with them obviously keeping the profits).

Match day hospitality will be a different matter with the club keeping profits from that.

 

I stil want to know how you think having Orient or Burton as tenants, rather than West Ham, would have been a better deal for the taxpayer

[kila]

Won't be record season ticket sales next year for sure.

[SE16 3LN]

Are you sure about that (re use rights).

My understanding was that West Ham only have exclusive use for match days.

Any conferences etc would be booked and organised by the stadium owners (with them obviously keeping the profits).

Match day hospitality will be a different matter with the club keeping profits from that.

 

I stil want to know how you think having Orient or Burton as tenants, rather than West Ham, would have been a better deal for the taxpayer

These questions have all been asked a million times. Who gets the money? The management company do just that, manage and get a fee for it. I assumed West Ham and Newham council split the events money in some way. It is after all a partnership. But if that is the case why don't they announce it. That would counter the accusations that are being made about theft of public money etc.

 

All the other serious bids were based on the Olympic legacy and benefits to the community. They were multi use and wanted to invest profits, to different degrees, back into the community and by consequence, the treasury. West Ham said that the taxpayer would benefit just by having a big new premiership team playing in the area. The trickle down effect. I think that's the argument you're presenting is it not. Anyway, the events at the weekend show which way the club is heading...sit down, shut up or face a life ban (13 at the last count). Enjoy

[The Treasurer]

These questions have all been asked a million times. Who gets the money? The management company do just that, manage and get a fee for it. I assumed West Ham and Newham council split the events money in some way. It is after all a partnership. But if that is the case why don't they announce it. That would counter the accusations that are being made about theft of public money etc.

 

All the other serious bids were based on the Olympic legacy and benefits to the community. They were multi use and wanted to invest profits, to different degrees, back into the community and by consequence, the treasury. West Ham said that the taxpayer would benefit just by having a big new premiership team playing in the area. The trickle down effect. I think that's the argument you're presenting is it not. Anyway, the events at the weekend show which way the club is heading...sit down, shut up or face a life ban (13 at the last count). Enjoy

I would imagine the details of the partnership between the club and the council will fall under the heading of "confidentiality" (whether you agree with that reason or not).

I'm fairly sure that the club have no involvement (and therefore no financial gain) from events other than on match days.

The idea of the facility being more of a "multi use" venue is great in principal, but do you really think there would be any profits to invest from the local running club  athletics meetings 2 or 3 times a year.

Not sure what you mean by "events at the weekend showing where the club is heading"

There have been problems, no doubt about that, but the club are dealing with unacceptable behaviour by issuing bans to those responsible.

Pity some other clubs aren't prepared to do the same

[IronJambo]

A point but a pile of bollocks. It was used every day by Londoners, and indeed people all over the UK, for a variety of sports. There were 17 applications for regular use as well as the West Ham bid. Unfortunately those organisations weren't owned by two member of the Tory Party, or indeed prepared to make large donations to the Tory party (coincidentally the day before Boris made the decision). This is another Tory Tax theft, transferring money from the ordinary tax payer to rich tory party members. It stinks and no amount of lying from Gold and his Westfield buddies will cover that smell.

To be fair, none of those 17 other applications would have brought in excess of ?10m pa to the treasury. Which is a massive amount more than the ?3m quoted earlier in the thread that Citeh pay.

[IronJambo]

These questions have all been asked a million times. Who gets the money? The management company do just that, manage and get a fee for it. I assumed West Ham and Newham council split the events money in some way. It is after all a partnership. But if that is the case why don't they announce it. That would counter the accusations that are being made about theft of public money etc.

 

All the other serious bids were based on the Olympic legacy and benefits to the community. They were multi use and wanted to invest profits, to different degrees, back into the community and by consequence, the treasury. West Ham said that the taxpayer would benefit just by having a big new premiership team playing in the area. The trickle down effect. I think that's the argument you're presenting is it not. Anyway, the events at the weekend show which way the club is heading...sit down, shut up or face a life ban (13 at the last count). Enjoy

The details of the deal are very public and not hard to find. West Ham pay for the use of the stadium for 26(?) matches per season and pay more for any others. It's a deal that easily brings in ?10m+pa because of the club's involvement. Money the club would have for themselves if they'd been able to buy the stadium.

[Unknown user]

The details of the deal are very public and not hard to find. West Ham pay for the use of the stadium for 26(?) matches per season and pay more for any others. It's a deal that easily brings in ?10m+pa because of the club's involvement. Money the club would have for themselves if they'd been able to buy the stadium.

Where are you getting this 10 Million from?

 

Last I heard, West Ham were paying a little over 1 million rent a year and that money was paying for everything, from ticket staff to flags on the pitch, from stewards to policing.

(EDIT, I checked, 2.5 million a year. "The Hammers will not have to pay for a range of things including policing, stewarding, goalposts, corner flags, cleaners and turnstile operators. Heating and lighting costs will also be covered")

 

 

Re Treasurer's claim that City of Manchester stadium and London stadium cost about the same, 112 million plus 42 conversion costs = 154 million in Manchester, while the London stadium clocked in just shy of HALF A BILLION POUNDS, including 271 million conversion costs.

Not about the same at all, not even close

[altyjambo]

Correct,

Huge amounts of tax payers money spent on a stadium that is only benefiting the Manchester branch of a global franchise.

The London Stadium, although costing a similar amount, is at least still accessible to other sports and to the community.

It's far from perfect, but the alternative was to stand still and then inevitably go backwards.

The fans were fully consulted before any move was made and although the preference would obviously have been to stay at the Boleyn, the fans realised that they needed to move in order to grow.

There has been issues with security and the club have arranged urgent talks with the stadium management as it is them, not West Ham, who are responsible for stewarding etc

 

Just to correct a number of inaccuracies in this and other posts by The Treasurer on the Eithad Stadium (or City of Manchester Stadium).

The stadium was only built with the agreement that it would be converted for football use by MCFC afterwards. The bottom tier was constructed and was buried underground when the Commonwealth games were on. After the games, the bottom tier was excavated at Council/ Government/ Lottery expense . The club put in around ?25m to fit out the ground and surroundings. The total bill for the stadium and conversion was about ?150m - much less (a quarter?) than the Olympic Stadium turned out to be. One crucial bit missing from The Treasurer's post was that as part of the deal, the Maine Road stadium and land was given to the city council free to develop - they have since built houses, shops and schools in the area.

 

The rental deal was initially based on attendances over and above Maine Road's capacity of 32000 - this led to a payment to the council every year of around ?3m. As part of that rental, City are responsible for the building maintenance, and all staffing, which again is different to the Olympic / West Ham deal ,probably to the tune of several million per year. When City were acquired by ADUG, they renegotiated the deal to substantially increase the payment to the council to allow the club to increase the capacity of the stadium to it's now 55000 and to rename it the Etihad Stadium which generates around ?1m per annum.

 

Since the takeover, the club have funded a large scale regeneration of the area, including large scale new affordable housing, an academy, a sixth form college, library and so on, together with training and academy facilities which employ many local people, none of which the council would have done. Hence there's a large amount spent back into the community. Obviously it's early days for West Ham and there's some immediate issues to resolve, so it's hard to compare the two, but initial suggestions seem to suggest that they have a good deal in comparison to the Etihad, but it's a very different arrangement.

[The Treasurer]

Where are you getting this 10 Million from?

 

Last I heard, West Ham were paying a little over 1 million rent a year and that money was paying for everything, from ticket staff to flags on the pitch, from stewards to policing.

(EDIT, I checked, 2.5 million a year. "The Hammers will not have to pay for a range of things including policing, stewarding, goalposts, corner flags, cleaners and turnstile operators. Heating and lighting costs will also be covered")

 

 

Re Treasurer's claim that City of Manchester stadium and London stadium cost about the same, 112 million plus 42 conversion costs = 154 million in Manchester, while the London stadium clocked in just shy of HALF A BILLION POUNDS, including 271 million conversion costs.

Not about the same at all, not even close

I accept that I was wrong to say similar costs, but ?154m is still a hefty sum for something that is for the benefit of one (very wealthy) user.

Had people like "Lord" Coe listened to experts then a  multi-purpose stadium could have been built for a fraction of the cost of building then converting the Olympic venue but he insisted on his vanity project.

[the general]

I accept that I was wrong to say similar costs, but ?154m is still a hefty sum for something that is for the benefit of one (very wealthy) user.

Had people like "Lord" Coe listened to experts then a  multi-purpose stadium could have been built for a fraction of the cost of building then converting the Olympic venue but he insisted on his vanity project.

 

 

rinsed on this thread lad    

[The Treasurer]

Just to correct a number of inaccuracies in this and other posts by The Treasurer on the Eithad Stadium (or City of Manchester Stadium).

The stadium was only built with the agreement that it would be converted for football use by MCFC afterwards. The bottom tier was constructed and was buried underground when the Commonwealth games were on. After the games, the bottom tier was excavated at Council/ Government/ Lottery expense . The club put in around ?25m to fit out the ground and surroundings. The total bill for the stadium and conversion was about ?150m - much less (a quarter?) than the Olympic Stadium turned out to be. One crucial bit missing from The Treasurer's post was that as part of the deal, the Maine Road stadium and land was given to the city council free to develop - they have since built houses, shops and schools in the area.

 

The rental deal was initially based on attendances over and above Maine Road's capacity of 32000 - this led to a payment to the council every year of around ?3m. As part of that rental, City are responsible for the building maintenance, and all staffing, which again is different to the Olympic / West Ham deal ,probably to the tune of several million per year. When City were acquired by ADUG, they renegotiated the deal to substantially increase the payment to the council to allow the club to increase the capacity of the stadium to it's now 55000 and to rename it the Etihad Stadium which generates around ?1m per annum.

 

Since the takeover, the club have funded a large scale regeneration of the area, including large scale new affordable housing, an academy, a sixth form college, library and so on, together with training and academy facilities which employ many local people, none of which the council would have done. Hence there's a large amount spent back into the community. Obviously it's early days for West Ham and there's some immediate issues to resolve, so it's hard to compare the two, but initial suggestions seem to suggest that they have a good deal in comparison to the Etihad, but it's a very different arrangement.

I'm well aware of the facilities citeh have built and TBF they are impressive.

However to paint them as some sort of saintly organisation, dishing out free homes and jobs is taking things a wee bit far.

These facilities were built for the benefit of citeh, the housing being just a condition of planning permission.

Dress it up however you like, the fact is they stil got a brand new stadium for a fraction of the cost had they done it all from scratch

[The Treasurer]

rinsed on this thread lad    

Just stating facts that can be checked quite easily

[altyjambo]

I'm well aware of the facilities citeh have built and TBF they are impressive.

However to paint them as some sort of saintly organisation, dishing out free homes and jobs is taking things a wee bit far.

These facilities were built for the benefit of citeh, the housing being just a condition of planning permission.

Dress it up however you like, the fact is they stil got a brand new stadium for a fraction of the cost had they done it all from scratch

 

Firstly, the deal with Sport England and the council was done years and years before ADUG came on the scene. City were practically in administration, spent time in the third tier of English football and were light years away from the wealth you see now.

 

Of course, they didn't have to build houses and create jobs, and they certainly were not a condition of any planning consent. The homes in New Islington and Holt Town are not connected at all with the stadium.

 

Yes, City benefited from a new stadium for a much cheaper price than if they built it themselves from scratch. However, it was part of an overall arrangement that allowed the Commonwealth Games to be staged in Manchester. Unlike the Olympic Stadium, the whole post-games usage was built into the initial cost rather than the unseemly hawking round that Boris did in London. But yes, City benefited. However, at the risk of repeating myself, it was a very different club in those days and not the moneyed machine you see now.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Fan Zone at the Etihad is great. Live music, FIFA room, good food and beverage, penalties for the kids or adults. Hopefully Ann has her eye on the ball if we get that community pitch behind the Wheatfield from the Brewery.

[The Treasurer]

Firstly, the deal with Sport England and the council was done years and years before ADUG came on the scene. City were practically in administration, spent time in the third tier of English football and were light years away from the wealth you see now.

 

Of course, they didn't have to build houses and create jobs, and they certainly were not a condition of any planning consent. The homes in New Islington and Holt Town are not connected at all with the stadium.

 

Yes, City benefited from a new stadium for a much cheaper price than if they built it themselves from scratch. However, it was part of an overall arrangement that allowed the Commonwealth Games to be staged in Manchester. Unlike the Olympic Stadium, the whole post-games usage was built into the initial cost rather than the unseemly hawking round that Boris did in London. But yes, City benefited. However, at the risk of repeating myself, it was a very different club in those days and not the moneyed machine you see now.

The last part of your comment is a key point.

London Olympics committee (largely thanks to the arrogance of Coe) had no real plan for after the games.

This resulted in them  "hawking round" the stadium as you say. 

West Ham saw this as an ideal opportunity to grow the club and made a bid.

If people think they got the best of the deal then that is the council/Olympic committee/governments fault, not West Ham's.

I agree that citeh bear no resemblance to the club they once were and are now just yet another soul-less EPL money-making franchise.

[Unknown user]

The last part of your comment is a key point.

London Olympics committee (largely thanks to the arrogance of Coe) had no real plan for after the games.

This resulted in them "hawking round" the stadium as you say.

West Ham saw this as an ideal opportunity to grow the club and made a bid.

If people think they got the best of the deal then that is the council/Olympic committee/governments fault, not West Ham's.

I agree that citeh bear no resemblance to the club they once were and are now just yet another soul-less EPL money-making franchise.

I don't think anyone's ever said it was West hams fault, and I'm happy to blame the relevant authorities.

 

But you've made some inaccurate claims trying to justify that West ham haven't got THAT cheap a deal.

I don't blame West ham and I get their thought process behind the move, but it is what it is

[Dalstonjambo]

I don't think anyone's ever said it was West hams fault, and I'm happy to blame the relevant authorities.

 

But you've made some inaccurate claims trying to justify that West ham haven't got THAT cheap a deal.

I don't blame West ham and I get their thought process behind the move, but it is what it is

I think that's the overriding point for me. Whilst it's depressing that such a wealthy club got such a good deal, the authorities are to blame. I'd also debate this point about community use etc. As a london resident, and in fact one who lives about 15 minutes from the olympic stadium, I've never heard of 'community use' of it as described in here. Velodrome and swimming pool yes, but the bottom line is that it would essentially have been a white elephant without west ham in it due to the idiocy of Coe and the like. 

 

And whilst leyton orient etc had ideas, there is without doubt a more positive effect to the local area on 55,000 people being there every fortnight. 

[The Treasurer]

I think that's the overriding point for me. Whilst it's depressing that such a wealthy club got such a good deal, the authorities are to blame. I'd also debate this point about community use etc. As a london resident, and in fact one who lives about 15 minutes from the olympic stadium, I've never heard of 'community use' of it as described in here. Velodrome and swimming pool yes, but the bottom line is that it would essentially have been a white elephant without west ham in it due to the idiocy of Coe and the like. 

 

And whilst leyton orient etc had ideas, there is without doubt a more positive effect to the local area on 55,000 people being there every fortnight. 

Good to hear some informed "local knowledge".

Seems to back up most, if not all, of the points I've been trying to make.

[kila]

Even more problems because of lack of proper radio facilities for the police:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37348308

[Unknown user]

I think that's the overriding point for me. Whilst it's depressing that such a wealthy club got such a good deal, the authorities are to blame. I'd also debate this point about community use etc. As a london resident, and in fact one who lives about 15 minutes from the olympic stadium, I've never heard of 'community use' of it as described in here. Velodrome and swimming pool yes, but the bottom line is that it would essentially have been a white elephant without west ham in it due to the idiocy of Coe and the like.

 

And whilst leyton orient etc had ideas, there is without doubt a more positive effect to the local area on 55,000 people being there every fortnight.

That's all grand but I still don't accept that once those games were over, the best financial option (which is what west ham fans seem to keep coming back to) was to spend 271 million transforming it into a stadium that will earn 2.5 million a year, minus lots of costs -at that rate it'll take 100+ years just to make the conversion money back, and that's if you don't deduct the myriad costs involved!

[Big Slim Stylee]

Sold their soul.

 

Hopefully get relegated.

 

Got some good mates who are Irons fans.  Needless to say, they hate the place

[Maroon Sailor]

At Stratford for tonights match against Accrington Stanley. Went up to The Boleyn to take a few pics before the bulldozers come in. Have to say the area around it is an absolute shithole. For that reason alone they may have made the correct decision after all !

[SwindonJambo]

I went past the Olympic Stadium on the Stansted Express train a week past Saturday, at around 1.45, able to see the early arriving fans for what turned out to be the 2-4 defeat to Watford.  The train slowed right down so I had a chance to have a good look at it.  Looked like a big soulless concrete bowl to me.  I'd absolutely hate Hearts to move to a place like that.  As others have said, the way the financial deal was structured, given West Ham's owners' connections to a certain political party, absolutely stinks rotten.

[Maroon Sailor]

Bubbles Babe 63 Blantyre Hammer

 

El Tel Erskine Hammers

 

 

The Scots get everywhere !

[Maroon Sailor]

I went past the Olympic Stadium on the Stansted Express train a week past Saturday, at around 1.45, able to see the early arriving fans for what turned out to be the 2-4 defeat to Watford.  The train slowed right down so I had a chance to have a good look at it.  Looked like a big soulless concrete bowl to me.  I'd absolutely hate Hearts to move to a place like that.  As others have said, the way the financial deal was structured, given West Ham's owners' connections to a certain political party, absolutely stinks rotten.

I'm outside it just now - could be going to an NFL match

 

The Boleyn pub would have been heaving at this time

[Nookie Bear]

At Stratford for tonights match against Accrington Stanley. Went up to The Boleyn to take a few pics before the bulldozers come in. Have to say the area around it is an absolute shithole. For that reason alone they may have made the correct decision after all !

Charming. And Gorgie is the Beverly Hills of Scotland.

 

Love how everyone comes across like a Tory toff when they are forced to see how "the other half" live.

[Tennant's 6's]

Nothing against West Ham, but that stadium deal really sticks in ma craw.. At a time when folk are having to go to food banks etc, usually people who do work, but on low wages or zero hrs contracts, yet a club in the richest league in the world gets offered a stadium for buttons... Sen Coe's idea of an Olympic legacy...

[Maroon Sailor]

Charming. And Gorgie is the Beverly Hills of Scotland.

Love how everyone comes across like a Tory toff when they are forced to see how "the other half" live.

Who rattled your cage ?

[dc-jambo]

Charming. And Gorgie is the Beverly Hills of Scotland.

 

Love how everyone comes across like a Tory toff when they are forced to see how "the other half" live.

 

Ha! Well called out.

 

I think we all know why the guy was slagging off the area around Green St, and it wasn't the state of the gardens.

[Maroon Sailor]

Ha! Well called out.

 

I think we all know why the guy was slagging off the area around Green St, and it wasn't the state of the gardens.

You probably know more about Green Street than I do.

[Maroon Sailor]

Got some good mates who are Irons fans.  Needless to say, they hate the place

Yip most of the fans I've spoken to feel the same.

 

Think once they get used to it they might take to it - be a sad day when The Boleyn comes down though.

 

Iconic Stadium

[Nookie Bear]

Who rattled your cage ?

Ach, crap day.

[Tazio]

Let's hope they get the security issues sorted before Chelsea come calling in the League Cup.

[Nookie Bear]

Let's hope they get the security issues sorted before Chelsea come calling in the League Cup.

 

On the other hand...

[dc-jambo]

On the other hand...

 

When's that fixture taking place? 

[The Treasurer]

When's that fixture taking place? 

Week starting 24th October 

[dc-jambo]

Week starting 24th October 

 

Cheers -- my favourite English fixture at a shiny new location 

[Maroon Sailor]

Wasn't a great game last night but fair play to the Hammers faithful, nearly 40,000 turned up. Have to say not a fan of the stadium for football, nice stadium but doesn't have that football feel about it. Pain in the ass getting back to Stratford station as well - I didn't go in the way I came out when I arrived, sent us upstairs at the shopping centre and over a bridge. Bizarre set up. Big test when Chelsea pitch up. Let's see how they steward / police that match.

[John Findlay]

Sold their soul.

 

Hopefully get relegated.

Spoken like a true Leyton Orient supporter.

 

The O's a proper East End team.

[Nookie Bear]

Spoken like a true Leyton Orient supporter.

The O's a proper East End team.

But Orient tried to share the stadium so we're quite prepared to sell their souls as well.

[Placid Casual]

I didn't realise how close Leyton Orient's ground was to the Olympic Stadium. No wonder they are unhappy.

[crichiejambos]

Their tax payer paid stadium ain't doing them any favoures,o dear another beating least only 3 goals this week!

[Maroon Sailor]

Their tax payer paid stadium ain't doing them any favoures,o dear another beating least only 3 goals this week!

They only get the use of the stadium on match days

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Would be funny if they got relegated after selling their soul

[Maroon Sailor]

Would be funny if they got relegated after selling their soul

Think Spurs fans will be hoping for that scenario

 

They fought to stop moving there and it looks one a great decision to have awarded it to the porno kings and piggy face.

[crichiejambos]

Piggy face????