The fewer season tickets sold, the poorer the manager we can expect?

[stuart500]

It is ironic that many fans are awaiting the news that a new manager of suitable pedigree has signed on the dotted line, before committing themselves to a season ticket.

 

It seems to me that the fewer fans who renew, the more likely it is that we will end up with a less suitable candidate, as the reduced income generated from the lower sales will actually INCREASE the chances of the next manager being a "pyramid promotion" or someone with a less well established track record of success.

 

Why is this the case? Well assume Romanov has budgeted for all season ticket holders to renew. On this basis a salary of 350k is offered to Mark Mcghee who will be given a budget of x.

 

If sales are drastically reduced, this means

1. we cannot offer the same remunerative package, thereby eliminating possible higher quality candidates
   
2. we cannot guarantee the manager the same budget Mcghee would have got, again thereby making the job less attractive to suitable candidates.

And finally and perhaps most importantly, how can we expect a new manager to believe that Romanov's team interference will reduce/end when a third of season ticket holders are sending the message that they dont believe it will?

 

Surely for the good of the club, all fans should give Romanov the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It is clearly in our own interest to do so!

 

The message is simple. The more season tickets sold, the more likely we are to get a better manager.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Dont think season tickets sales will affect what name comes in. McGhee was getting a very very good wage (if the reports are correct) offered to him.

 

You may have a point on the new mans budget for players though.

[bigwull22]

no really weren't we around 8000 when Burley got the job?

[Cow]

It's catch 22 then because season ticket sales will be well boosted by the appointment of a half decent manager with full control over team selection.

[stuart500]

no really weren't we around 8000 when Burley got the job?

 

You are probably right , mate.

 

However, the point I am making is that people are not renewing/buying season tickets in an attempt to "force" Romanov to appoint a suitable manager (unlike when Burley was appointed). However this action may ironically be preventing us getting a manager of the caliber we would actually want!!

[stuart500]

It's catch 22 then because season ticket sales will be well boosted by the appointment of a half decent manager with full control over team selection.

 

Correct!!

[dougiea]

Thanks for sales pitch Rodney

 

So I can (again) speculate 750 quid for me & 2 kids in the Gorgie Stand and be rewarded with 12 months of Malofeev/Korabochka/Valdas etc.......

 

Sorry, we'll renew when you've put up !

[Tazio]

People seem to forget that season ticket sales aren't over, just renewals. I'm sure there are a fair few swinging voters out there that will crumble.

[Cow]

People seem to forget that season ticket sales aren't over, just renewals. I'm sure there are a fair few swinging voters out there that will crumble.

 

I'm not a swinging voter just someone who cant renew at present due to finances required for more important things. I am quite sure there are a few of last seasons ST holders who are in the same prediciment. I will defo be renewing before the start of the season.Anyone else in the same position?

[portobellojambo1]

You are probably right , mate.

 

However, the point I am making is that people are not renewing/buying season tickets in an attempt to "force" Romanov to appoint a suitable manager (unlike when Burley was appointed). However this action may ironically be preventing us getting a manager of the caliber we would actually want!!

 

The number of ST's already sold will have absolutely no effect on the quality of manager coming in, however the lack of ST's sold may influence Romanov with regard to whether he appoints a competent manager or not. If he is happy to see numbers dwindle then he will not, if he thinks dwindling numbers are going to affect his long term plans he might screw the nut and appoint someone from out with the inner circle.

 

It is not the fans call, it is Romanov's call.

[Billy52]

It is ironic that many fans are awaiting the news that a new manager of suitable pedigree has signed on the dotted line, before committing themselves to a season ticket.

 

It seems to me that the fewer fans who renew, the more likely it is that we will end up with a less suitable candidate, as the reduced income generated from the lower sales will actually INCREASE the chances of the next manager being a "pyramid promotion" or someone with a less well established track record of success.

 

Why is this the case? Well assume Romanov has budgeted for all season ticket holders to renew. On this basis a salary of 350k is offered to Mark Mcghee who will be given a budget of x.

 

If sales are drastically reduced, this means

1. we cannot offer the same remunerative package, thereby eliminating possible higher quality candidates
   
2. we cannot guarantee the manager the same budget Mcghee would have got, again thereby making the job less attractive to suitable candidates.

And finally and perhaps most importantly, how can we expect a new manager to believe that Romanov's team interference will reduce/end when a third of season ticket holders are sending the message that they dont believe it will?

 

Surely for the good of the club, all fans should give Romanov the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It is clearly in our own interest to do so!

 

The message is simple. The more season tickets sold, the more likely we are to get a better manager.

 

 

What a pile of ****. Its up to the club to provide the right management for success then ask fans to buy into it.

 

The track record so far is abysmal and you know it, not all fans are gamblers and many are fed up with the lies.

[Pants Shaton]

Congratulations on the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on JKB.

[blairdin]

I cracked and renewed my season ticket yesterday, after being one of the ones who has prattled on about not renewing until a new manager came in blah blah blah.

 

The girl in the ticket office told us that season ticket sales are way down on the last 2 years. However, to have just over 9,000 season ticket holders at this stage given last season is a far greater uptake than the club expected.

 

If this is true, season ticket sales will have no bearing whatsoever on what manager we get.

[neave]

Congratulations on the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on JKB.

Agreed. Terrible.

 

Firstly, Romanov didn't make x-million quid out of his other business ventures by budgeting for something as ridiculous and risky as "all season tickets renewing", especially when he knows he is the principle cause of the club's problems.

 

Secondly, Romanov has x-million quid and has shown that he isn't shy in shelling it out (unfortunately for us it's been misguided and misspent). If Hearts were really in a position relying on season ticket sales/renewals in order to afford offering a manager his annual wage, I'd be seriously worried.

 

And finally and perhaps most importantly' date=' how can we expect a new manager to believe that Romanov's team interference will reduce/end when a third of season ticket holders are sending the message that they dont believe it will?

 

Surely for the good of the club, all fans should give Romanov the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It is clearly in our own interest to do so![/quote']

I do however, in part, agree with you here. Any potential manager can take one look at season ticket sales/renewals (or lack of) if they are able to and will probably see the relatively large drop in numbers as a worrying sign. Alternatively he could see it as a challenge.

 

Where I disagree with you in the section I've quoted is here: Romanov doesn't deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt. Hearts fans owe him nothing, and I mean nothing after the way he's raped our club on so many levels. It's his job and his alone to get the fans back onside as he is the only man who can fix our situation.

 

All, of course, IMO.

[topcat]

Yes there will be a tightening effect on the budget but given that the selection of a new manager is, or at least should be, taken in the context of a three or four year appointment the fact that sales are currently down about 20% like for like shouldn't be the decisive factor and will likely be cancelled out entirely by the incentive it provides to get the appointment right and stop a repeat of last season.

 

It's an argument that might make some sense when taken to extremes. If nobody at all had renewed then that could have had major negative repercussions

 

The health of a football club relies on there being supporters who stand by the club through bad times but it's also dependant on there being enough people who only turn out when things are going well to provide an incentive to the people running the club to keep things going well most of the time.

 

We've had a lot og posts berating people for renewing their Season Tickets implying complicity in such crimes as the selection of Ivsakevicus. We've had about as many people complaining about Fair weather fans.

 

In truth there is nothing wrong with either position and in fact both are necessary

 

The existence of unconditional supporters is what lets them survive the bad times but the existence of conditional supporters is what makes it worth dragging clubs out of the bad times.

[Charlie-Brown]

Impeccable logic once again topcat!

[Debut 4]

Disagree with stuart500. Romanov must either decide whether he wants Hearts to be good or rubbish.

 

Employing another nobody will only worsen the situation. Hearts have always held a certain core support which will always remain, but the club won`t flourish and all the off field initiatives will be pointless if he doesn`t deliver on the playing side.

[markletissier]

Congratulations on the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on JKB.

 

pretty much.

[mitch41]

It is ironic that many fans are awaiting the news that a new manager of suitable pedigree has signed on the dotted line, before committing themselves to a season ticket.

 

It seems to me that the fewer fans who renew, the more likely it is that we will end up with a less suitable candidate, as the reduced income generated from the lower sales will actually INCREASE the chances of the next manager being a "pyramid promotion" or someone with a less well established track record of success.

 

Why is this the case? Well assume Romanov has budgeted for all season ticket holders to renew. On this basis a salary of 350k is offered to Mark Mcghee who will be given a budget of x.

 

If sales are drastically reduced, this means

1. we cannot offer the same remunerative package, thereby eliminating possible higher quality candidates
   
2. we cannot guarantee the manager the same budget Mcghee would have got, again thereby making the job less attractive to suitable candidates.

And finally and perhaps most importantly, how can we expect a new manager to believe that Romanov's team interference will reduce/end when a third of season ticket holders are sending the message that they dont believe it will?

 

Surely for the good of the club, all fans should give Romanov the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It is clearly in our own interest to do so!

 

The message is simple. The more season tickets sold, the more likely we are to get a better manager.

 

nice try but it doesn't wash.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So, if we sold every seat in the house we would have landed Jose Mourinho!

[mitch41]

Yes there will be a tightening effect on the budget but given that the selection of a new manager is, or at least should be, taken in the context of a three or four year appointment the fact that sales are currently down about 20% like for like shouldn't be the decisive factor and will likely be cancelled out entirely by the incentive it provides to get the appointment right and stop a repeat of last season.

 

It's an argument that might make some sense when taken to extremes. If nobody at all had renewed then that could have had major negative repercussions

 

The health of a football club relies on there being supporters who stand by the club through bad times but it's also dependant on there being enough people who only turn out when things are going well to provide an incentive to the people running the club to keep things going well most of the time.

 

We've had a lot og posts berating people for renewing their Season Tickets implying complicity in such crimes as the selection of Ivsakevicus. We've had about as many people complaining about Fair weather fans.

 

In truth there is nothing wrong with either position and in fact both are necessary

 

The existence of unconditional supporters is what lets them survive the bad times but the existence of conditional supporters is what makes it worth dragging clubs out of the bad times.

 

the health of our football club is being ruined by gross mismanagement. the bull**** about fairweather fans and renewing season tickets only comes up when the club is being harmed by people who don't know what thay are doing.

 

bad times are caused by bad management and we have that in abundance.

[mitch41]

I cracked and renewed my season ticket yesterday, after being one of the ones who has prattled on about not renewing until a new manager came in blah blah blah.

 

The girl in the ticket office told us that season ticket sales are way down on the last 2 years. However, to have just over 9,000 season ticket holders at this stage given last season is a far greater uptake than the club expected.

 

If this is true, season ticket sales will have no bearing whatsoever on what manager we get.

 

so you cracked did you:Bazooka:

 

let's hope romanov does the right thing for all our sakes.

[By The Light..]

aye that's shining bright, my ?500 is not going anywhere near Ukio Bankas and the rest of their clowns, sooner give it to charity.

[Drylaw Hearts]

It is ironic that many fans are awaiting the news that a new manager of suitable pedigree has signed on the dotted line, before committing themselves to a season ticket.

 

It seems to me that the fewer fans who renew, the more likely it is that we will end up with a less suitable candidate, as the reduced income generated from the lower sales will actually INCREASE the chances of the next manager being a "pyramid promotion" or someone with a less well established track record of success.

 

Why is this the case? Well assume Romanov has budgeted for all season ticket holders to renew. On this basis a salary of 350k is offered to Mark Mcghee who will be given a budget of x.

 

If sales are drastically reduced, this means

1. we cannot offer the same remunerative package, thereby eliminating possible higher quality candidates
   
2. we cannot guarantee the manager the same budget Mcghee would have got, again thereby making the job less attractive to suitable candidates.

And finally and perhaps most importantly, how can we expect a new manager to believe that Romanov's team interference will reduce/end when a third of season ticket holders are sending the message that they dont believe it will?

 

Surely for the good of the club, all fans should give Romanov the benefit of the doubt in this regard. It is clearly in our own interest to do so!

 

The message is simple. The more season tickets sold, the more likely we are to get a better manager.

 

Utter garbage from the first word to the last.

[PresidentRomanov]

so you cracked did you:Bazooka:

 

let's hope romanov does the right thing for all our sakes.

 

Imagine buying a season ticket for Tynecastle - what a tosser eh

[Only a Game]

The message is simple. The more season tickets sold, the more likely we are to get a better manager.

 

The message is indeed simple but its the opposite to the message above.

 

Get a manager in of the type you promised 5 MONTHS AGO and you would have already sold as many ST's as last season.

 

Dont get a manager in of the type you have promised 5 MONTHS AGO and you have lost 33% of your regular customers.

[Dirk Diggler]

aye that's shining bright, my ?500 is not going anywhere near Ukio Bankas and the rest of their clowns, sooner give it to charity.

 

Why would your ?500 be going anywhere near Ukio Bankas?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Employing another nobody will only worsen the situation. Hearts have always held a certain core support which will always remain, but the club won`t flourish and all the off field initiatives will be pointless if he doesn`t deliver on the playing side.

 

I agree with this.

It also suggests that those not renewing are not part of the core support. I agree with that too.

[portobellojambo1]

I agree with this.

It also suggests that those not renewing are not part of the core support. I agree with that too.

 

Are you honestly suggesting MJ that those who have not yet renewed are those who only started coming along since the beginning of season 2005/06 (apologies if I have misread your words, but I would like to think that someone who has been supporting HMFC for say 30/40 years but who has decided not to renew either yet or at all would rightly have been included within what was termed as the core support, whatever that means. I simply don't believe that those not renewing or delaying have only been supporting the club for around 3 years, or only gone down the ST route within that timescale).

[PresidentRomanov]

Are you honestly suggesting MJ that those who have not yet renewed are those who only started coming along since the beginning of season 2005/06 (apologies if I have misread your words, but I would like to think that someone who has been supporting HMFC for say 30/40 years but who has decided not to renew either yet or at all would rightly have been included within what was termed as the core support, whatever that means. I simply don't believe that those not renewing or delaying have only been supporting the club for around 3 years).

 

I would say the vast majority have.

 

I know dozens of Hearts supporters through the years I've went to games, and I don't know one person who hasn't renewed.

[rememberwilliegibson]

You are probably right , mate.

 

However, the point I am making is that people are not renewing/buying season tickets in an attempt to "force" Romanov to appoint a suitable manager (unlike when Burley was appointed). However this action may ironically be preventing us getting a manager of the caliber we would actually want!!

 

Romanov might use that as an excuse but if he's as minted as he's supposed to be he will pay for a decent manager out of his own pocket and recoup it later as fans are attracted back.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I would say the vast majority have.

 

I know dozens of Hearts supporters through the years I've went to games, and I don't know one person who hasn't renewed.

 

Have you asked them all ?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Are you honestly suggesting MJ that those who have not yet renewed are those who only started coming along since the beginning of season 2005/06 (apologies if I have misread your words, but I would like to think that someone who has been supporting HMFC for say 30/40 years but who has decided not to renew either yet or at all would rightly have been included within what was termed as the core support, whatever that means. I simply don't believe that those not renewing or delaying have only been supporting the club for around 3 years).

 

Not exactly.

I do think that a number not renewing would have bought first time under Burley.

But if you accept some of the threads on here there are a fair few who have been going for years and aren't renewing.

A common theme is that they have other things to do that are more attractive than Hearts at the moment. That's fine but it means they are placing less importance on Hearts and making a choice to attend or not based on the quality of play. To my ming that's not a core supporter.

 

There are a lot of posts along the lines of "I watched three relegations, us toiling in the First Division etc but this is worse."

So did I and it isn't worse.

What I suspect is a lot of these guys were teenagers/ early 20s at that time (as was I) and the whole day out with your mates made up for a lot of the crap we had to watch.

They're now at a stage when they only want to watch decent football. Again fair enough but it makes you a fairweather fan.

 

Personally I went home and away for years. I go to very few away games now.

Is the person that goes every week a better fan than me?

I don't see how I could argue otherwise.

[PresidentRomanov]

Have you asked them all ?

 

I've been going on the same bus for twenty five years, and the dozens of people who I'm friendly with who go on that, have all renewed.

 

As I said, I haven't met anyone I know who hasn't renewed, probably due to the fact most of the Hearts supporters I know, are proper supporters, who don't jump ship when things aren't looking so good

[chester copperpot]

I've been going on the same bus for twenty five years, and the dozens of people who I'm friendly with who go on that, have all renewed.

 

As I said, I haven't met anyone I know who hasn't renewed, probably due to the fact most of the Hearts supporters I know, are proper supporters, who don't jump ship when things aren't looking so good

 

 

 

 

Oooh I'd love to be one of them.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I've been going on the same bus for twenty five years, and the dozens of people who I'm friendly with who go on that, have all renewed.

 

As I said, I haven't met anyone I know who hasn't renewed, probably due to the fact most of the Hearts supporters I know, are proper supporters, who don't jump ship when things aren't looking so good

 

What about the folk you aren't friendly with ?

 

I know guys who have been going to matches for over 25 years who haven't renewed.

 

And without a shadow of doubt they are 'proper' Hearts Supporters.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Oooh I'd love to be one of them.

 

It appears you can only be one of these if you bought a ST before the Deadline.

[PresidentRomanov]

What about the folk you aren't friendly with ?

 

I know guys who have been going to matches for over 25 years who haven't renewed.

 

And without a shadow of doubt they are 'proper' Hearts Supporters.

 

Please explain how I can speak for someone I don't know

 

What I said was, I don't know anyone who hasn't renewed, I don't see how else I can put it

 

I'm not doubting what you're saying though, but I'm convinced the vast majority of non renewers are hangers on.

[Fourcandles]

I've been going on the same bus for twenty five years, and the dozens of people who I'm friendly with who go on that, have all renewed.

 

As I said, I haven't met anyone I know who hasn't renewed, probably due to the fact most of the Hearts supporters I know, are proper supporters, who don't jump ship when things aren't looking so good

 

It may or may not be deliberate - but this kind of devisive, inflamatory and "I'm a better supporter" type thread is unheplful.

It infuriates the

A) Not renewing till our club is run on more normal lines fans.

If anyhing makes them more entrenched by effectively taunting them, by suggesting that they are not proper supporters.

 

Personally I admire their stand because there is a bigger picture and all 'protests' do serve a purpose, history tells us that this is how changes of governments, companies and other institutions are achieved.

 

[Drylaw Hearts]

Please explain how I can speak for someone I don't know

 

What I said was, I don't know anyone who hasn't renewed, I don't see how else I can put it

 

I'm not doubting what you're saying though, but I'm convinced the vast majority of non renewers are hangers on.

 

What you said was :

 

Picky Bum

I know dozens of Hearts supporters through the years I've went to games, and I don't know one person who hasn't renewed.

 

I asked :

 

Drylaw Hearts

Have you asked them all ?

 

We then got onto the subject of your bus.

 

So....

 

Are they the only Hearts supporters you know ?

 

And if so :-

 

Have you asked every single one of them if they have renewed ?

 

And if not :-

 

Has every single Hearts supporter you know renewed ?

 

 

And BTW......

 

I don't know one 'hanger on'.

[PresidentRomanov]

What you said was :

 

 

 

I asked :

 

 

 

We then got onto the subject of your bus.

 

So....

 

Are they the only Hearts supporters you know ?

 

And if so :-

 

Have you asked every single one of them if they have renewed ?

 

And if not :-

 

Has every single Hearts supporter you know renewed ?

 

I think what you're driving at, is have I asked the Hearts supporters that I've got to know through the years, who I haven't spoken to, if they've renewed - am i right?

 

If I am, do you not think you're being a bit ridiculous, just to try and score a cheap point, when in fact, you know fine well what i mean?

[Drylaw Hearts]

I think what you're driving at, is have I asked the Hearts supporters that I've got to know through the years, who I haven't spoken to, if they've renewed - am i right?

 

If I am, do you not think you're being a bit ridiculous, just to try and score a cheap point, when in fact, you know fine well what i mean?

 

Me trying to score a cheap point ?

 

It now appears it was you who made a false claim.

 

[PresidentRomanov]

Me trying to score a cheap point ?

 

It now appears it was you who made a false claim.

 

 

Ok then - 1-0 Drylaw - happy now

 

I still don't know anyone who hasn't renewed though - maybe I have better friends than you

[Drylaw Hearts]

Ok then - 1-0 Drylaw - happy now

 

I still don't know anyone who hasn't renewed though - maybe I have better friends than you

 

Maybe you have less ?

 

 

2-0.

 

 

[PresidentRomanov]

Maybe you have less ?

 

 

2-0.

 

 

 

If I do, it's obviously a case of quality, over quantity

 

1-1.

[Martin_T]

Congratulations on the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on JKB.

 

Spot on Gman. There is no correlation between season ticket sales and our ability to 'afford' a manager.

 

We would probably have to sell 20,000 season tickets to sustain the salaries of the likes of Beslija, Pinilla, Nade, Kingston etc...if Hearts really want a manager, Romanov will provide the finance to get one. Until then, myself and thousands others like me will continue to make a principled stand against the outrageous way our club is being run.

[Drylaw Hearts]

If I do, it's obviously a case of quality, over quantity

 

1-1.

 

[winston churchill]

I agree with this.

It also suggests that those not renewing are not part of the core support. I agree with that too.

 

 

sorry to say,there's a few of us still digging our heels in.

[Charlie-Brown]

Talksport 1053-1089MW Wickes Weekend Breakfast Show.......

 

Mike (Porky) Parry: "Leaving aside the European Championships for a moment can we ask the listeners if they agree that all those fans who are not re-newing their season tickets for next year aren't really supporters at all but indeed Traitors who are harming the club they claim to 'support' and are reducing the amount of money available for their club to compete.....so listeners have you renewed your season ticket? if not why not? do you want your club to lose?"

 

Andy Townsend: "I don't think you can say that Mike......"

[Fourcandles]

Talksport 1053-1089MW Wickes Weekend Breakfast Show.......

 

Mike (Porky) Parry: "Leaving aside the European Championships for a moment can we ask the listeners if they agree that all those fans who are not re-newing their season tickets for next year aren't really supporters at all but indeed Traitors who are harming the club they claim to 'support' and a reducing the amount of money available for their club to compete.....so listeners have you renewed your season ticket? if not why not? do you want your club to lose?"

 

Andy Townsend: "I don't think you can say that Mike......"

 

Sounds awfy like Romanov language used for G Burley, i.e utter nonsense talk.