Thistle and Well moaning about fixtures

[jambali]

The problem is that any sport should be organised so that it is fair. The way the SPL is structured is inherently UNFAIR.

 

(..and that's without taking into account the bias!)

 

If we get an uneven distribution against the cheeks, there will be plenty on here moaning. Including those above who are anti the clubs who are moaning now.

[Noddy1874]

Wee Weegie feeder clubs moaning about not playing with main bigger bigot brothers shocker

 

Scottish geography not your strong point?

[Drewboy]

Not funny at all. Thistle were one of the clubs who helped us out when we were on our erse. A lot of short memories on here.

So by that logic any club who helped us can do or say whatever they want and we'd have to support them! That's f###ing ridiculous! What they need to do is stop whinging, start competing! Better performances makes more fans, makes more money, makes higher league position, makes self reliant!

 

 

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[Noddy1874]

So by that logic any club who helped us can do or say whatever they want and we'd have to support them! That's f###ing ridiculous! What they need to do is stop whinging, start competing! Better performances makes more fans, makes more money, makes higher league position, makes self reliant!

 

 

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Have you actually read what their gripe is? And they are a bottom 6 team at best and do well to get the support they do considering they share a city with the Old Firm.

[Noddy1874]

So by that logic any club who helped us can do or say whatever they want and we'd have to support them! That's f###ing ridiculous! What they need to do is stop whinging, start competing! Better performances makes more fans, makes more money, makes higher league position, makes self reliant!

 

 

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Have you actually read what their gripe is? And they are a bottom 6 team at best and do well to get the support they do considering they share a city with the Old Firm.

[Noddy1874]

So by that logic any club who helped us can do or say whatever they want and we'd have to support them! That's f###ing ridiculous! What they need to do is stop whinging, start competing! Better performances makes more fans, makes more money, makes higher league position, makes self reliant!

 

 

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Have you actually read what their gripe is? And they are a bottom 6 team at best and do well to get the support they do considering they share a city with the Old Firm.

[Drewboy]

Have you actually read what their gripe is? And they are a bottom 6 team at best and do well to get the support they do considering they share a city with the Old Firm.

Yes I have!

 

 

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[Mikey1874]

Just read the full newspaper report. Now while understanding some of the comments as it does seem strange this will have taken the clubs by surprise.

 

100% this was expected that clubs would get equal number of home old firm fixtures.

 

SPFL has some explaining to do. Maybe with Rangers away it was forgotten, maybe nobody told the fixtures company.

[2205ian]

The clubs want this league setup, they could change it if they were all unhappy. What Partick and Motherwell are moaning about is the fact that a newly promoted team has been treated as such, with the fixtures actually compiled on a sporting merit basis, rather than on a financial strength basis. These clubs are arguing that sporting merit should be tossed aside, and it's really disappointing to see that some Hearst fans are in favour of that.

 

 

How have they been cheated? If anything, they should be delighted, they've been given two away games against a newly promoted team, and most clubs should be confident of winning against a newly promoted team home or away, and two away games against the champions, whom most clubs probably wouldn't feel confident of winning against home or away. That means extra home games against teams they'd probably be a lot more confident about beating at home than they would away.

 

 

Except they aren't "losing" ?120k at all. They never had this money. And, presumably, they managed to get by in recent years when Rangers weren't in the league at all.

 

If they want to earn ?120k, go on a cup run. Finish in the top six. Don't whine about not having enough away supporters in your ground. 

These 2 gentlemen certainly know their stuff. People should digest their posts before going off at a tangent.

 

Other good posts from Farmer Tweedy on SPFL Fixtures thread also worthy of reading.

 

The Rangers have been posted missing for the last 4 years & have now returned to top tier 1 year late due to HMFC  , so Clubs have had plenty of opportunity to get their act together regarding fixture lists or finance whatever their grievance is.

 

I appreciate Partick Thistle contributed ?2k+ to FoH when we were in times of need, but this should not cloud our judgement for ever.

 

I like Partick as a Club especially competing for fan base in Glasgow, but even their own supporters are not happy with "arrangements" when the gruesome twosome turn up & take over the "home" stands.

 

The rules regarding a team being promoted into existing structure in terms of fixtures has been followed & we should be endorsing this fact, not looking for it to be challenged.

[Drewboy]

These 2 gentlemen certainly know their stuff. People should digest their posts before going off at a tangent.

 

Other good posts from Farmer Tweedy on SPFL Fixtures thread also worthy of reading.

 

The Rangers have been posted missing for the last 4 years & have now returned to top tier 1 year late due to HMFC , so Clubs have had plenty of opportunity to get their act together regarding fixture lists or finance whatever their grievance is.

 

I appreciate Partick Thistle contributed ?2k+ to FoH when we were in times of need, but this should not cloud our judgement for ever.

 

I like Partick as a Club especially competing for fan base in Glasgow, but even their own supporters are not happy with "arrangements" when the gruesome twosome turn up & take over the "home" stands.

 

The rules regarding a team being promoted into existing structure in terms of fixtures has been followed & we should be endorsing this fact, not looking for it to be challenged.

That is exactly where I am. Thanks for putting it much better than I could!

 

 

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[Hearts007]

If more people born in Partick went to the games instead of jumping ship to the mhanks and Sevco then they'd be fine

[Noddy1874]

If more people born in Partick went to the games instead of jumping ship to the mhanks and Sevco then they'd be fine

They play in Maryhill.

[Hearts007]

Noddy1874, on 18 Jun 2016 - 9:40 PM, said:

They play in Maryhill.

you know what I mean

[Noddy1874]

you know what I mean

It's hardly Thistle's fault that people choose to follow the Old Firm rather than their local team.

[Hearts007]

It's hardly Thistle's fault that people choose to follow the Old Firm rather than their local team.

No its not but neither is it any other teams responsibility to fill their stadium with away fans

[Noddy1874]

No its not but neither is it any other teams responsibility to fill their stadium with away fans

That's not what their gripe is.

[Hearts007]

Noddy1874, on 18 Jun 2016 - 9:58 PM, said:

That's not what their gripe is.

so their gripe aint about not getting three home games against the Old Firm, meaning they aint scoring bucks from away fans..sorry my mistake

[Oneneilberry]

If more people born in Partick went to the games instead of jumping ship to the mhanks and Sevco then they'd be fine

Pretty sure we have a sizeable following from Fife and west Lothian and the borders

[Noddy1874]

so their gripe aint about not getting three home games against the Old Firm, meaning they aint scoring bucks from away fans..sorry my mistake

Apology accepted.

[Shanks said no]

Didn't Well get Sevco in the LC?

 

I have a feeling they won't want them back after what they are planning.

[Tott]

Didn't Well get Sevco in the LC?

 

I have a feeling they won't want them back after what they are planning.

 

 

Motherwell built an away stand with the OF in mind.

They even tried to sell OF away game season tickets a few years back.

Asked season ticket holders to move to get in more celtic fans a few years ago..

 

Them and Kilmarnock have been at it for years.

[Noddy1874]

Motherwell built an away stand with the OF in mind.

They even tried to sell OF away game season tickets a few years back.

Asked season ticket holders to move to get in more celtic fans a few years ago..

 

Them and Kilmarnock have been at it for years.

These clubs are skint. What are they meant to do? Have thousands of empty seats when they play the Old Firm and lose out on much needed revenue?

[Hearts007]

Noddy1874, on 18 Jun 2016 - 5:58 PM, said:

You're missing the point. Their probable rivals have been handed a massive (by their standards) financial advantage before a ball has even been kicked.

Didn't work out to well for the Hobos who's crowd and budget and squad dwarfed all other clubs (Apart from Sevco)

[Noddy1874]

Didn't work out to well for the Hobos who's crowd and budget and squad dwarfed all other clubs (Apart from Sevco)

Totally different scenario.

[Tott]

These clubs are skint. What are they meant to do? Have thousands of empty seats when they play the Old Firm and lose out on much needed revenue?

 

 

 

 

Live within your means,dont rely on the OF to fill up your stands.

Simple really.

 

Motherwell/Kilmarnock would happily ( and have) turned over  there own fans over for the benefit of the OF.

[Noddy1874]

Live within your means,dont rely on the OF to fill up your stands.

Simple really.

 

Motherwell/Kilmarnock would happily ( and have) turned over  there own fans over for the benefit of the OF.

It's called reality. If they can't fill the stands with their own fans then it would be financial suicide not to sell them to away fans.

[Unknown user]

I don't get the ire, changing the schedule slightly would ensure two scottish cubs don't potentially lose out on six figure sums.

 

Are they meant to quietly roll over and go "yes master" or should they stand and say "that's not fair"?

 

I get both sides of the argument tbh, but I probably lean towards thinking that clubs should be cooperating and helping each other out- it's tough times for many away from tynecastle.

 

Let's not become enemies of the scottish game like the OF arse cheeks though, we're better than that

[Tott]

It's called reality. If they can't fill the stands with their own fans then it would be financial suicide not to sell them to away fans.

 

 

Motherwell built that away stand with the OF in mind.

Hoping for four games against them every season.

Reality has came back and bit them in the arse.

Sorry but have no sympathy for them.

[FarmerTweedy]

Financially.

Explain please.

[FarmerTweedy]

So they're basically asking the SPFL to treat Rangers and Celtic differently to other clubs ensuring they have specific fixtures. If they can't survive from their own fans income GTF or spend less.

Yes, that's exactly what they're asking for. It's hugely saddening that some Hearts fans on this site can't see how ludicrous and, quite frankly, appalling that suggestion is.

[peter_hmfc]

Shitehouse clubs that offer nothing to the Premier League, would be no loss if they went down.

[FarmerTweedy]

Some short memories.

When our gigantic super duper club with its millions of fans was on its arse because we spent more than we took in, it was these 'diddy clubs' (who should be closed down apparently), that weighed in with some of their revenue from away support.

A little more self-awareness and respect wouldn't go amiss on this thread.

Btw. If they do close down, who do we play?

WTF are you on about?

[FarmerTweedy]

Little point in proposing change as the Old Firm can veto it. Our league setup isn't fit for purpose, and nothing will change unless those at the top offer a solution.

 

Scottish football is quite the embarrassment; most of the stadiums, the dominance of two clubs, the national team's persistent failure. Those at the top are failing and have been given enough chances. If only we could boot Doncaster and let Budge set a plan in motion to sort this mess with fans getting a say.

Most of the clubs want the current structure.

 

Getting rid of Doncaster wouldn't change that.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Simple answer. Tell them to **** off and grow their own fanbase.

 

Pishy wee clubs like this should be shut down.

It's pishy wee clubs like Partick Thistle who helped us raise funds when we badly needed it in our time of need!!!

 

 

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[FarmerTweedy]

Not funny at all. Thistle were one of the clubs who helped us out when we were on our erse. A lot of short memories on here.

They may have made a tiny contribution towards helping us, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be ridiculed for their nonsensical claims that sporting merit should be thrown out the window and that fixtures should be organised based on the size of clubs' away supports, which is exactly what they're calling for.

[The Old Tolbooth]

It's not only the money.

 

I'd rather have them at home than away twice, we have a better chance at beating the at home.

 

The league format is a farce, a league should ensure all teams playthe same fixtures, the fact that our league doesn't do this adds to incompetence of the SFA and leads others to think we are a mickey mouse outfit, can't even get a league set up right.

 

Money is tight in Scotland if a rival is gaining by about ?120k, and you are losing ?120k as you are playing 1/2 fixtures less, its over ?200k difference, that's easily 3-4 players.

 

Easy to slag of teams for being small, but some of these guys are small compared to us. laughing at them stinks of OF attitude, they probably laugh at us in the same way.

 

All the teams should unite and tell the SFA and the arse cheeks to sort it out, the league is there to protect the 4 old firm fixtures, of no benefit to anyone but two teams.

 

For me teams should go a different route to challenge this, fairness and sporting integrity imo are compromised in this league due to the set up.

 

We really are a joke, I appreciate that Partick are only raising the issue now it impacts finances, another problem, all the clubs are short sighted and have self interest. The sporting issues where always there, now the financial implications affect them they are suddenly concerned about this.

 

Teams need to grow a pair.

 

The old firm are horrible, the SFA incompetent.

Excellent post sir!

 

 

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[FarmerTweedy]

Just read the full newspaper report. Now while understanding some of the comments as it does seem strange this will have taken the clubs by surprise.

100% this was expected that clubs would get equal number of home old firm fixtures.

SPFL has some explaining to do. Maybe with Rangers away it was forgotten, maybe nobody told the fixtures company.

Only if clubs were run by complete idiots who'd failed to notice that rangers were a lower league club for the last four years and have only just been promoted.

[FarmerTweedy]

The problem is that any sport should be organised so that it is fair. The way the SPL is structured is inherently UNFAIR.

 

(..and that's without taking into account the bias!)

 

If we get an uneven distribution against the cheeks, there will be plenty on here moaning. Including those above who are anti the clubs who are moaning now.

Why would we, or anyone else, expect an even distribution against them? One is the defending champions, the other is a newly promoted team. Neither has any relevance to the other in terms of fixtures for other teams.

[FarmerTweedy]

Have you actually read what their gripe is? And they are a bottom 6 team at best and do well to get the support they do considering they share a city with the Old Firm.

Anyone who has read what their gripe is (once, twice, or three times a greeting baby) will have dismissed it out of hand for the ludicrous crock of shite that it is.

[FarmerTweedy]

It's hardly Thistle's fault that people choose to follow the Old Firm rather than their local team.

It is when they kick their own fans out of their own seats to sell those seats to fans of the arse cheeks, and complain that fixtures have been drawn up based on previous league positions rather than the size of away supports.

[FarmerTweedy]

I don't get the ire, changing the schedule slightly would ensure two scottish cubs don't potentially lose out on six figure sums.

Are they meant to quietly roll over and go "yes master" or should they stand and say "that's not fair"?

I get both sides of the argument tbh, but I probably lean towards thinking that clubs should be cooperating and helping each other out- it's tough times for many away from tynecastle.

Let's not become enemies of the scottish game like the OF arse cheeks though, we're better than that

It's not about bringing in more money though, it's about some clubs wanting any sort of sporting integrity (and I know that's in short supply in Scottish football anyway!) thrown out the window in case it disadvantages them financially. The fixtures have been drawn up on the basis that rangers are a newly promoted club, which they are. Partick and Motherwell are saying '**** that, they've got a big travelling support so ignore any other considerations and make sure we get what we view as our fair share of opportunities to cash in on that travelling support'. The only logical conclusion to pandering to those sort of notions is to organise all fixtures based on the size of each club's support, including abandoning things like promotion and relegation, and having the top division always filled with the best supported teams. Sod the likes of Hamilton, killie, etc, kick them out and bring in Dundee United, h1b5, etc instead, and shut the doors behind them.

[Unknown user]

It's not about bringing in more money though, it's about some clubs wanting any sort of sporting integrity (and I know that's in short supply in Scottish football anyway!) thrown out the window in case it disadvantages them financially. The fixtures have been drawn up on the basis that rangers are a newly promoted club, which they are. Partick and Motherwell are saying '**** that, they've got a big travelling support so ignore any other considerations and make sure we get what we view as our fair share of opportunities to cash in on that travelling support'. The only logical conclusion to pandering to those sort of notions is to organise all fixtures based on the size of each club's support, including abandoning things like promotion and relegation, and having the top division always filled with the best supported teams. Sod the likes of Hamilton, killie, etc, kick them out and bring in Dundee United, h1b5, etc instead, and shut the doors behind them.

Christ, Scottish clubs need every penny they can get, if we can make arrangements like derbies at certain times of year we can do this too. We don't need to get on our high horse about everything - sporting integrity, ffs!

[Heres Rixxy]

Christ, Scottish clubs need every penny they can get, if we can make arrangements like derbies at certain times of year we can do this too. We don't need to get on our high horse about everything - sporting integrity, ffs!

So relegation and promotions should be determined based on attendances. It will ensure the most supported teams are in the top league meaning the most money for all clubs.

 

It might even result in higher attendances for those near the promotion/relegation places. Imagine being relegated based on 1 fan not turning up.

 

Great idea. I'm on board.

[Unknown user]

So relegation and promotions should be determined based on attendances. It will ensure the most supported teams are in the top league meaning the most money for all clubs.

 

It might even result in higher attendances for those near the promotion/relegation places. Imagine being relegated based on 1 fan not turning up.

 

Great idea. I'm on board.

That's not even close to what I'm saying, and you know it

[gadjy]

The bigger picture is the split is a joke if this is going to happen year in/out then they should look to changing the setup it's a business as well as a sport. Pretty sure we would like to play a team more chance of points than the old firm.

 

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[fabienleclerq]

Christ, Scottish clubs need every penny they can get, if we can make arrangements like derbies at certain times of year we can do this too. We don't need to get on our high horse about everything - sporting integrity, ffs!

Farmer Tweedy is hitting this out the park. It is absolutely about sporting integrity, Celtic and Rangers should be treated the same as everyone else and clubs like partick and motherwell should stop bending over for them then crying about fairness.

[Konrad von Carstein]

What is the fixture selection process? Honest question, is it a push of a button and some algorithm spits it out or is it numbered balls?

 

Clarification on this from SPFL/SFA would go a long way to calming the, legitimate, concerns of shenanigans.

 

I've felt for a while now that the fixture lists should be a big event, like the draft in US sports, maybe not a TV show but how much would a live feed over the Internet cost?

 

By the way I'm talking about a professional set up not some blazer on his phone using Periscope.....

[Jason Dufner]

Could understand if they were hacked off from a sporting disadvantage.

 

However all they're bothered about is losing out on money from a club they voted out in the league in 2012.

[Gibbo]

What is the fixture selection process? Honest question, is it a push of a button and some algorithm spits it out or is it numbered balls?

 

Clarification on this from SPFL/SFA would go a long way to calming the, legitimate, concerns of shenanigans.

 

I've felt for a while now that the fixture lists should be a big event, like the draft in US sports, maybe not a TV show but how much would a live feed over the Internet cost?

 

By the way I'm talking about a professional set up not some blazer on his phone using Periscope.....

 

If you played another club twice at home before the split last season, you play them once at home before the split this season. If you had 17 home games before the split last season, you have 16 this season. Promoted clubs inherit the fixtures of the club that they replaced. That's certainly how our fixtures for this season work out.

 

Presumably the fixtures for the first ever season with the split were worked out so that everybody had 3 home games with the Old Firm before the split. That situation would have continued for ever had Rangers not disappeared from the Premiership.

 

The clubs that have only 2 home games with the Old Firm this season must have played Celtic twice and Dundee Utd twice before the split last season. Rangers are not considered to be a new club or the old Rangers when drawing up the fixtures, but are treated as if they were Dundee Utd. Unless the rules are changed, the clubs that have 4 home games with the Old Firm this season will have 2 next season and vice versa.

[Konrad von Carstein]

If you played another club twice at home before the split last season, you play them once at home before the split this season. If you had 17 home games before the split last season, you have 16 this season. Promoted clubs inherit the fixtures of the club that they replaced. That's certainly how our fixtures for this season work out.

 

Presumably the fixtures for the first ever season with the split were worked out so that everybody had 3 home games with the Old Firm before the split. That situation would have continued for ever had Rangers not disappeared from the Premiership.

 

The clubs that have only 2 home games with the Old Firm this season must have played Celtic twice and Dundee Utd twice before the split last season. Rangers are not considered to be a new club or the old Rangers when drawing up the fixtures, but are treated as if they were Dundee Utd. Unless the rules are changed, the clubs that have 4 home games with the Old Firm this season will have 2 next season and vice versa.

Thanks, I didn't appreciate that was how it went.