BBC Leaders Debate 2016

[Hasselhoff]

"Stop talking Scotland down" the SNP say, yet by saying the electorate were duped by Project Fear is talking down the people of Scotland and saying they have trouble comprehending basic facts.

 

Not a month goes by without people sharing a link to a Business For Scotland page from March 2014 which is misleadingly titled "New figures confirm that Scotland would have been ?8.3 billion better off as an independent country". Why would they make this sentence in the past tense despite being 6 months prior to the result? Regardless, people read it, think "Ah, see! I was right! voting yes would have made us better off" and off they share!

 

The SNP is very strong on social media with people believing what they find online rather than "MSM" etc. As a result, this nonsense is being spread far and wide. People are being duped in equal measures in the opposite direction.

[Irufushi]

You really need to get over it. People had their own vote and cast it the way they felt most appropriate. You can't get your own way the whole time. Playground stuff.

Wasting your time, the lads a loon.

[aussieh]

You really need to get over it. People had their own vote and cast it the way they felt most appropriate. You can't get your own way the whole time. Playground stuff.

Next time, Arnie.

The Union(Aye, good one), well its arse is grass and I'm the Lawnmower.

[aussieh]

Wasting your time, the lads a loon.

A Scotsman.

To vote against your country well that's lunacy.

 

Why is it we even have to fight for independence, that to me says I all about this so called union.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Next time, Arnie.

The Union(Aye, good one), well its arse is grass and I'm the Lawnmower.

You been on the bleach mate?

[aussieh]

don't waste your time trying to get any sensible debate with him, I'm positive he is a unionist troll as I have never met anyone so rabidly anti English/british in my life

Feck the union and all who kneel.

 

I dont give a feck what you chocolate yes voters think. I'll go to war if need be.

[Irufushi]

A Scotsman.

To vote against your country well that's lunacy.

 

Why is it we even have to fight for independence, that to me says I all about this so called union.

like I said, a loon.

[aussieh]

You been on the bleach mate?

When is the with power comes responsibility pish coming.

They offered everyone the ultimate powers for Scotland and the Scots were out voted.

If you don't want independence dont lecture the SNP on wishy-washy pishy powers.

They'll administrate until responsibility is accepted by the population.

Hypocrites'.

 

 

 

Oh and Tick Tock.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Er, ok then.

 

Please don't quote that oddball. I have him on ignore for a reason.

[aussieh]

like I said, a loon.

Ahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahah

[aussieh]

Please don't quote that oddball. I have him on ignore for a reason.

I'm heartbroken.

I think I'll cry.

 

 

Yes, I know.

[i8hibsh]

A Scotsman.

To vote against your country well that's lunacy.

 

Why is it we even have to fight for independence, that to me says I all about this so called union.

Voting against your country? Not being a moron I did not see Sept 14 as England v Scotland. I'd say Wales etc too but let's cut to the chase, bitter people like aussieh see it as only a Scotland England thing. I really feel sorry for you. You have major issues.

[jack D and coke]

I don't follow why the Conservatives should be attacked or held to account if they are not in power. Power comes with responsibility.

 

A case for Scottish politicians to "grow up", stop blaming others and, instead, sieze the opportunity to do what they are paid to do and be public servants.

 

David Torrance, as ever, gets to the heart of the matter and his article in this morning's edition is apposite or "bang on".

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14464869.David_Torrance__Scottish_nationalists_and_Brexiteers_have_much_in_common__Both_are_utterly_vacuous/

Decent article and kind of how I feel about all politicians and parties.

I hate the lot of them.

[jambos are go!]

I have expressed genuine concern for Nicola Sturgeon saying she did not look well. Pointed out to me yesterday that the SNP are running a one person campaign and anyone would be exhausted by that. Where are Swinney, Neill etc. Kept well clear of the electorate by the SNP machine

[Boris]

I have expressed genuine concern for Nicola Sturgeon saying she did not look well. Pointed out to me yesterday that the SNP are running a one person campaign and anyone would be exhausted by that. Where are Swinney, Neill etc. Kept well clear of the electorate by the SNP machine

 

Equally, where are the other partie's spokespersons?

 

All I see and hear are Dugdale, Davidson, Rennie and Harvie.

[i8hibsh]

I have expressed genuine concern for Nicola Sturgeon saying she did not look well. Pointed out to me yesterday that the SNP are running a one person campaign and anyone would be exhausted by that. Where are Swinney, Neill etc. Kept well clear of the electorate by the SNP machine

 

 

Hope she is not well.  Utterly revolting woman.  I know I am allowed to say this as I see many ill things said about many Tories and it is accepted.  The women brings me so much shame I genuinely get a red face speaking to anyone that is snot Scottish.

 

I do get the impression she is kind of a control freak like Salmond though so that would explain the 'one person campaign'.

[HaymarketJambo]

Hope she is not well.  Utterly revolting woman.  I know I am allowed to say this as I see many ill things said about many Tories and it is accepted.  The women brings me so much shame I genuinely get a red face speaking to anyone that is snot Scottish.

 

I do get the impression she is kind of a control freak like Salmond though so that would explain the 'one person campaign'.

 

Well it's looks like she might be First Minister by Friday night, so some people must like her and the SNP?

[i8hibsh]

Well it's looks like she might be First Minister by Friday night, so some people must like her and the SNP?

 

 

Yup no arguments with democracy.  I shall keep my opinion on her however and use my vote to show my utter disdain for her and her party. 

[John Findlay]

Yup no arguments with democracy. I shall keep my opinion on her however and use my vote to show my utter disdain for her and her party.

As is your right.

[HaymarketJambo]

Yup no arguments with democracy.  I shall keep my opinion on her however and use my vote to show my utter disdain for her and her party. 

 

That's what democracy is all about.

 

And I hope you will accept the Scottish election result?

 

I will use my two votes to keep her and her party in power at Holyrood. 

[i8hibsh]

That's what democracy is all about.

 

And I hope you will accept the Scottish election result?

 

I will use my two votes to keep her and her party in power at Holyrood. 

 

I have never not accepted it.  Unlike the SNP who simply DO NOT ACCEPT that 55.4% voted to remain part of the UK. 

[HaymarketJambo]

I have never not accepted it.  Unlike the SNP who simply DO NOT ACCEPT that 55.4% voted to remain part of the UK. 

 

That's up to you. But there is a very good chance there will be an SNP Government by Friday night? 

[Boris]

I have never not accepted it.  Unlike the SNP who simply DO NOT ACCEPT that 55.4% voted to remain part of the UK. 

 

I thihk they did accept that, or did I miss the UDI?

 

But if you are beat in one election, should you simply stop campaigning for something that you believe in?

[i8hibsh]

That's up to you. But there is a very good chance there will be an SNP Government by Friday night? 

 

 

Yes thanks, I am more than aware.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I have expressed genuine concern for Nicola Sturgeon saying she did not look well. Pointed out to me yesterday that the SNP are running a one person campaign and anyone would be exhausted by that. Where are Swinney, Neill etc. Kept well clear of the electorate by the SNP machine

It's just that the media have been focusing on the leaders of each party rather than it being a one woman show .

The media like to run stories on Sturgeon in community centres drinking tea with grannies , Ruth the untruth driving her tank over hills , Dugdale reading Labour policy to primary one kids and Rennie doing bunny hops on his BMX .

 

 

There was a series of debates on featuring the spokes people for various departments ,big pompous Jackie Baillie ,Shona Robinson and some Tory guy and some liberal for health for an example .

 

Mind most serious candidates will be working their socks off in the area they are standing so you won't see much of them .

[i8hibsh]

I thihk they did accept that, or did I miss the UDI?

 

But if you are beat in one election, should you simply stop campaigning for something that you believe in?

 

 

You think aussieh has accepted it?  As a party they had to accept it but as a following it is ridiculous the denial.  What about those freeloading dossers camped in the caravan outside Holyrood, do you think they accept it?

[i8hibsh]

Also, I don't know why I am being asked about how I feel about the SNP winning Holyrood.  I don't give 2 shites about Holyrood.  I am a Westminster man and the party I support is in control there.  I predict the whole SNP 'fad' to blow over in time.

[AlphonseCapone]

You think aussieh has accepted it? As a party they had to accept it but as a following it is ridiculous the denial. What about those freeloading dossers camped in the caravan outside Holyrood, do you think they accept it?

You are being hysterical. How many of the professed yes voters on here have accepted it compared to not, as a sample? 90% I'd say at least.

 

Your logic is the sort that would tar all no voters as the same as those in George Square post referendum.

[i8hibsh]

You are being hysterical. How many of the professed yes voters on here have accepted it compared to not, as a sample? 90% I'd say at least.

 

Your logic is the sort that would tar all no voters as the same as those in George Square post referendum.

 

I had to come off social(ist) media recently as it is unbearable.  They just don't shut up.  Those t-shirts btw

 

[HaymarketJambo]

Also, I don't know why I am being asked about how I feel about the SNP winning Holyrood.  I don't give 2 shites about Holyrood.  I am a Westminster man and the party I support is in control there.  I predict the whole SNP 'fad' to blow over in time.

 

So why are you posting about the Scottish Leaders debate for Holyrood if you don't care 2 shites about the Holyrood Election or the Scottish Parliament?  

[i8hibsh]

So why are you posting about the Scottish Leaders debate for Holyrood if you don't care 2 shites about the Holyrood Election or the Scottish Parliament?  

 

I want to exercise my democratic right to show that not all Scotland buys into the SNP fairytale.

[Boris]

You think aussieh has accepted it?  As a party they had to accept it but as a following it is ridiculous the denial.  What about those freeloading dossers camped in the caravan outside Holyrood, do you think they accept it?

 

Yes, otherwise they wouldn't still be there, campaigning for what they believe in.

[i8hibsh]

Yes, otherwise they wouldn't still be there, campaigning for what they believe in.

 

 

By walking about accusing anyone who does not see the world like them un-patriotic?

[Boris]

By walking about accusing anyone who does not see the world like them un-patriotic?

 

I don't agree with that, but that's not what you said initially.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I thihk they did accept that, or did I miss the UDI?

 

But if you are beat in one election, should you simply stop campaigning for something that you believe in?

 

Exactly, Boris.

 

Has Labour given up trying to get back into power at Westminster, just because they lost an election?  Did the Tories give up during the Blair years?

Of course not, yet some people want the SNP to abandon the very thing they were founded to campaign for and that was Independence, so to moan and groan about the SNP still reserving the right to fight for independence is like asking all the Christian Churches to stop worshipping Jesus, the very reason why they were founded, well it's not going to happen. 

 

A lot of people need to stop slagging off the SNP and start asking why their party is not getting elected instead of the SNP.

If the SNP are so bad and are making such a mess of things then why are they not getting voted out of power?

If all the other parties would make a better job of things, then why doesn't the electorate believe them and vote for them and get the big bad nats out?

 

Labour had their chance at running Scotland and the electorate voted them out, maybe some of the people slagging off the SNP need to ask themselves why that happened, why did the Labour party in Scotland go from such a dominate position to being in a dog fight with the Conservatives for 2nd & 3rd place.

[i8hibsh]

Exactly, Boris.

 

Has Labour given up trying to get back into power at Westminster, just because they lost an election?  Did the Tories give up during the Blair years?

Of course not, yet some people want the SNP to abandon the very thing they were founded to campaign for and that was Independence, so to moan and groan about the SNP still reserving the right to fight for independence is like asking all the Christian Churches to stop worshipping Jesus, the very reason why they were founded, well it's not going to happen. 

 

A lot of people need to stop slagging off the SNP and start asking why their party is not getting elected instead of the SNP.

If the SNP are so bad and are making such a mess of things then why are they not getting voted out of power?

If all the other parties would make a better job of things, then why doesn't the electorate believe them and vote for them and get the big bad nats out?

 

Labour had their chance at running Scotland and the electorate voted them out, maybe some of the people slagging off the SNP need to ask themselves why that happened, why did the Labour party in Scotland go from such a dominate position to being in a dog fight with the Conservatives for 2nd & 3rd place.

 

It is completely different.  The SNP are predominantly a one mission party, they have pretty much one goal.  They got their chance in August and the people said no.  Labour and Tories are not going to give up in the way that if a team does not win the league this year they still compete next year.  Tories and Labour (etc) are political parties with long standing traditions and a broader outlook than one goal.  The SNP were given their chance and failed in their objective.  Out of principle they should disband just like UKIP if it is a UK ?stay in? vote.

[HaymarketJambo]

It is completely different.  The SNP are predominantly a one mission party, they have pretty much one goal.  They got their chance in August and the people said no.  Labour and Tories are not going to give up in the way that if a team does not win the league this year they still compete next year.  Tories and Labour (etc) are political parties with long standing traditions and a broader outlook than one goal.  The SNP were given their chance and failed in their objective.  Out of principle they should disband just like UKIP if it is a UK ?stay in? vote.

 

What tosh.

 

The SNP got 56 seats out of 59 at Westminster election and that was after the Yes campaign lost the Independence Referendum.

Please explain that to me.  

 

So what you are trying to say is that SNP-DUP-UUP-SDLP-Greens-LibDems and Plaid Cymru should back up shop and leave it to the Conservatives and Labour to run in elections and run the UK?

 

Have seen the shambles the Labour Party are in right now and the Conservatives are at war with themselves over Europe.

 

Your havin a laugh are you?  

[Boris]

It is completely different.  The SNP are predominantly a one mission party, they have pretty much one goal.  They got their chance in August and the people said no.  Labour and Tories are not going to give up in the way that if a team does not win the league this year they still compete next year.  Tories and Labour (etc) are political parties with long standing traditions and a broader outlook than one goal.  The SNP were given their chance and failed in their objective.  Out of principle they should disband just like UKIP if it is a UK ?stay in? vote.

 

Interesting that the SNP vote has increased post September 2014, so perhaps this shows an increase in popularity for another referendum, i.e. people who voted NO, now want to change their mind?

 

Or should we all stand by our decisions from the past and never evolve or change our minds?

[jambos are go!]

Labour created but failed to adapt to the realities of Holyrood. Dewar blocked the transfer of many prominent MPs to Holyrood and chose to  recruit from Local Government by and large. This allowed him to reign supreme until his untimely death The heirs apparent Henry McLeish. Jack McConnell and Wendy Alexander all fell from grace and they went down to less experienced  politicians. That was made worse by generally not letting sitting MSPs be list candidates in the last Holyrood Election. In the SNP landsllide more talent and experience was lost . If the likes of Iain Davidson, John Reid,Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander had gone to Holyrood then the SNP would have struggled IMO. As it was shipping the very able Jim Murphy in as the Scottish leader backfired  as he was seen as the Westminster candidate. He would have been in a stronger position if had been seen as having served his time at Holyrood. All IMO. Hopefully that is now being addressed. 

 

Thee is another reason as I said to my Labour activist buddy when Holyrood was set up. The Scottish Electorate is not daft enough to allow one party perpetual rule at Holyrood. Hopefully, history will repeat itself or full PR will come.  All IMO.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

It is completely different.  The SNP are predominantly a one mission party, they have pretty much one goal.  They got their chance in August and the people said no.  Labour and Tories are not going to give up in the way that if a team does not win the league this year they still compete next year.  Tories and Labour (etc) are political parties with long standing traditions and a broader outlook than one goal.  The SNP were given their chance and failed in their objective.  Out of principle they should disband just like UKIP if it is a UK ?stay in? vote.

 

Well of course the SNP have only one mission and that's to gain Independence for Scotland, it was after all the reason they were set up, and it is something which they have never ever hid.

[Boris]

Labour created but failed to adapt to the realities of Holyrood. Dewar blocked the transfer of many prominent MPs to Holyrood and chose to  recruit from Local Government by and large. This allowed him to reign supreme until his untimely death The heirs apparent Henry McLeish. Jack McConnell and Wendy Alexander all fell from grace and they went down to less experienced  politicians. That was made worse by generally not letting sitting MSPs be list candidates in the last Holyrood Election. In the SNP landsllide more talent and experience was lost . If the likes of Iain Davidson, John Reid,Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander had gone to Holyrood then the SNP would have struggled IMO. As it was shipping the very able Jim Murphy in as the Scottish leader backfired  as he was seen as the Westminster candidate. He would have been in a stronger position if had been seen as having served his time at Holyrood. All IMO. Hopefully that is now being addressed. 

 

Thee is another reason as I said to my Labour activist buddy when Holyrood was set up. The Scottish Electorate is not daft enough to allow one party perpetual rule at Holyrood. Hopefully, history will repeat itself or full PR will come.  All IMO.

 

But they didn't.  Was it because, as Johann Lamont seemed to suggest, that they looked down their noses at the "kiddy-on parliament" and felt their bread was better buttered from the Westminster trough?

 

If that is a common perception, you can understand the feeling against this Labour hierarchy by the average bod.

 

So, not disagreeing with you in that these, undoubtedly talented, politicians should have served at Holyrood, it's just that their ego or opinion of Holyrood felt that it was beneath them.

 

I thought Holyrood was set up so that no one party could EVER rule?  You would more or less always have a coalition.  How do you explain the unparalleled support the SNP has?  It is something of a phenomenon.

[John Findlay]

It is completely different. The SNP are predominantly a one mission party, they have pretty much one goal. They got their chance in August and the people said no. Labour and Tories are not going to give up in the way that if a team does not win the league this year they still compete next year. Tories and Labour (etc) are political parties with long standing traditions and a broader outlook than one goal. The SNP were given their chance and failed in their objective. Out of principle they should disband just like UKIP if it is a UK ?stay in? vote.

I'm in the Jim Sillars camp. 56 out of 59 MPS at the last general election is the people of Scotland voting for independence. I know many may not agree. That is what I believe.

[Arnold Rothstein]

I'm in the Jim Sillars camp. 56 out of 59 MPS at the last general election is the people of Scotland voting for independence. I know many may not agree. That is what I believe.

Sorry but that is total rubbish. It wasn't even in the manifesto!

[i8hibsh]

I'm in the Jim Sillars camp. 56 out of 59 MPS at the last general election is the people of Scotland voting for independence. I know many may not agree. That is what I believe.

 

There is a term for that:

 

Moving the goalposts.

[i8hibsh]

I'm in the Jim Sillars camp. 56 out of 59 MPS at the last general election is the people of Scotland voting for independence. I know many may not agree. That is what I believe.

 

Also, fine if you believe it but it would be going against our entire electoral system. Do you appreciate that?

 

The people voting for Scotland had a pretty basic question to answer in September 2014.  That was 'voting for Independence' and they said no.

[AlphonseCapone]

I'm in the Jim Sillars camp. 56 out of 59 MPS at the last general election is the people of Scotland voting for independence. I know many may not agree. That is what I believe.

As a Yes voter I disagree entirely with that.

 

The only vote for independence is in a referendum on independence.

[John Findlay]

There is a term for that:

 

Moving the goalposts.

Your quite correct. I was just taking my lead from unionist parties on that one.

 

I don't expect many or if any to agree it is just a personal belief.

[i8hibsh]

Your quite correct. I was just taking my lead from unionist parties on that one.

 

I don't expect many or if any to agree it is just a personal belief.

 

No one can take a personal belief away form you - we are all entitled to them unless you are aussieh, he has complete intolerance for all other views that differ from his. although like a poster earlier said I think he is on the wind up.

[Remnants of Standards]

So some folk want the SNP to effectively stop being the SNP and stop campaigning for Independence? Good luck with that.

 

However, as someone who campaigned hard for a Yes vote during the campaign i recognise the public is suffering from political fatigue, and do need a break from the constitutional argument for the time being.

That being said, it's ridiculous to never re-visit it if as Sturgeon says polls over-whelmingly back another vote.

 

What I'd hope for is a more balanced debate this time with more light and less heat from both sides.

[coconut doug]

Labour created but failed to adapt to the realities of Holyrood. Dewar blocked the transfer of many prominent MPs to Holyrood and chose to  recruit from Local Government by and large. This allowed him to reign supreme until his untimely death The heirs apparent Henry McLeish. Jack McConnell and Wendy Alexander all fell from grace and they went down to less experienced  politicians. That was made worse by generally not letting sitting MSPs be list candidates in the last Holyrood Election. In the SNP landsllide more talent and experience was lost . If the likes of Iain Davidson, John Reid,Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander had gone to Holyrood then the SNP would have struggled IMO. As it was shipping the very able Jim Murphy in as the Scottish leader backfired  as he was seen as the Westminster candidate. He would have been in a stronger position if had been seen as having served his time at Holyrood. All IMO. Hopefully that is now being addressed. 

 

Thee is another reason as I said to my Labour activist buddy when Holyrood was set up. The Scottish Electorate is not daft enough to allow one party perpetual rule at Holyrood. Hopefully, history will repeat itself or full PR will come.  All IMO.

Murphy is very able at what precisely? Rejected because he was the Westminster candidate, you say. IMO he was rejected not just by potential labour voters but by existing Labour voters in their thousands. He was rejected because he was patronising to an extent that I have never seen before or since in Scotland He was badly informed in every area and called out on his lie about " the biggest party gets to form the government". Increased exposure revealed him to be unpleasant, ill informed, rude and bombastic.  He even played the sectarian victim card. He couldn't even win his own seat despite a tactical voting campaign from the Tories in his constituency. His appointment maybe led to the biggest increase in the Yes vote throughout the whole campaign. This was not because he was seen as the Westminster candidate it was because he was revealed as precisely the type of person who should not represent Scotland. The Henry Jackson Society are more than welcome to him.