Bring out your riot gear

[Colin56]

Bring back those days!!!

[Say What Again]

You ought to get a job with the Edinburgh Evening Hibs.

Your description of how the book goes is utter bull.

 

The original poster asked 'What do people who have read it think of it?'. I've read it and I posted what I thought of it.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realise only people who thought it was a great piece of literature were allowed to answer that question.

 

Check back through the thread though, you'll see quite a lot of folk agree with me.

 

 

You more or less never lived in those days but choose to criticise or you did live in those days but chose to spend time sorting out your stamp collection and watching Open University

 

Where did I criticise what went on those days? I criticised the books reporting of what went on. If I was so against what what on I'd never have bought the book in the first place. I was interested in what happened those days - I've heard enough stories from boys in the boozer, just they boys in the boozer tell them better than the book does.

 

 

Facts are facts, this is what happened if you want to compile a book of your own living days then do so, look forward to it.

 

And where did I argue with any 'facts'? Did I say none of this happened? No. Did I say Bring Out Your Riot Gear is a boring tale of what happened? Yes, because it is.

 

 

 

 

So you can say I'm a stamp collecting, Open University watching, critic of the Hearts support in days gone by all you want.

 

In reality all I said was the book is boring.

[Rudolf's Mate]

When they started out they were small in numbers but remember they were "Edinburgh Casuals" not Hearts or Hibs. The term casual was not originally meant to represent football hooliganism.

 

After a few incidents at the Southside Snooker Centre, a Hearts v Aberdeen Scottish Cup tie, a few liberty takers from Leith and the reaction from "The Shed" at the emergance of this new brand of fan put the Hearts Casuals into a slight predicament.

 

They couldn't pull the same numbers as Aberdeen, Motherwell or Rangers and because of the Hearts fans refusing to take of their "bovver boots" for Adidas or Dia Dora the small numbered CSF couldn't compete with the "Big Boys".

It's alarming to know that quite a lot of the Hibs faces were in actual fact Hearts fans or previous members of the CSF, this was they're safety in numbers clause.

 

But over the piece the Hearts CSF have had many a battle, maybe not in the grand scale of the ASC, the ICF or the exagerated CCS but certainly not to be underestimated, they have had they're fun.

 

Agreed however my first memory of this was after the 86 cup final against Aberdeen. I was 13 and with my old man heading back to the train. I just remember the hearts boys being put on their toes by what seemed like an army coming flooding down the road! Mad to see however I think you were right about the numbers! I seem to recall that Hibs got quite a few numbers from lads who had attached themselves to Meadowbank!!! I also know that because it didn't catch on till much later in Gorgie, a large number of the CCS were actually Hearts fans!

[winston churchill]

When they started out they were small in numbers but remember they were "Edinburgh Casuals" not Hearts or Hibs. The term casual was not originally meant to represent football hooliganism.

 

After a few incidents at the Southside Snooker Centre, a Hearts v Aberdeen Scottish Cup tie, a few liberty takers from Leith and the reaction from "The Shed" at the emergance of this new brand of fan put the Hearts Casuals into a slight predicament.

 

They couldn't pull the same numbers as Aberdeen, Motherwell or Rangers and because of the Hearts fans refusing to take of their "bovver boots" for Adidas or Dia Dora the small numbered CSF couldn't compete with the "Big Boys".

It's alarming to know that quite a lot of the Hibs faces were in actual fact Hearts fans or previous members of the CSF, this was they're safety in numbers clause.

 

 

 

 

But over the piece the Hearts CSF have had many a battle, maybe not in the grand scale of the ASC, the ICF or the exagerated CCS but certainly not to be underestimated, they have had they're fun.

 

 

 

the ccs top table was full of hearts,a fact that the lochenders still try and deny.

[Rudolf's Mate]

the ccs top table was full of hearts,a fact that the lochenders still try and deny.

 

Maybe the new generation deny it however it was common knowledge inside and out.

[winston churchill]

Maybe the new generation deny it however it was common knowledge inside and out.

 

 

 

it's the same with the older one's;)

[Hilary Briss]

Doe's it mention anything about him pulling stanleys out on younger boys!

 

I thought that was you Jason

 

I was there that day, how's tricks ???

[Spellczech]

I wonder what genuine ex-soldiers who fought in real wars would make of reading a thread like this with all the nostagia for running up and down streets, chest-beating and generally being mindlessly thuggish...? They must wonder why they bothered risking their lives for society's dregs to get boozed up and violent.

 

The thing that strikes me from reading the above is all the talk of numbers - safety in numbers - all seems a bit cowardly TBH...

[Hilary Briss]

They must wonder why they bothered risking their lives for society's dregs to get boozed up and violent.

 

A bit over the top dont you think.

 

The scene the book in the OP refers to was as much to so with fashion & camaradry as anything. I am guessing most posting about it on this thread were involved when they were younger and grew out out of it........hardly the dregs of society. Save that tag for the muggers & rapists of this world eh.

[John Findlay]

Lived through it and read the book. The book is crud.

 

Most people in it are as hard as skitters.

 

 

 

 

John

[vegas-voss]

Far from it mate, CS was one of the first casuals in Edinburgh after his stint at the mod revival. He will never claim to be a hardman but admit to be more interested in the fashion and the combination of two groups wanting to have a go.

 

Okay im sorry it's just the way it came across when i read the book maybe also because i knew a few Chip Shop casuals as he puts it that laid claim to be in the ICF or Hibs Baby Crew when i was young and hanging about outside the local chippy and youth club myself and none of them that told the stories were never at games never mind casuals.

[Say What Again]

Lived through it and read the book. The book is crud.

 

Ohhh, you're not allowed to say that

[vegas-voss]

Whats the Everton book.Think thats the best i have read or The Soul Crew one.But as others have said there all basically the same.

[Therapist]

a slight exageration,hearts had a tasty mob, but were always a bit thin on the ground when it came to numbers;)

 

Jerry, I was referring to the Gorgie Aggro rather than the smartly dressed chaps. Maybe a bit too early for the book, but it's ages since I read it, and at my age the memory is a bit hazy sometimes.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Whats the Everton book.Think thats the best i have read or The Soul Crew one.But as others have said there all basically the same.

 

Scally. I can't really be bothered discussing who's firm is better than whose, but I've never met any fans more mental than Cardiff City's. Absolute ****ing nutters.

[vegas-voss]

Scally. I can't really be bothered discussing who's firm is better than whose, but I've never met any fans more mental than Cardiff City's. Absolute ****ing nutters.

 

Scally that's the one.What's the infamous street called in the book.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I thought that was you Jason

 

I was there that day, how's tricks ???

 

Mind you, if I remember correctly he wasn't very happy about a remark I made about him having something bent over his head! Needless to say that I wasn't keen on getting close to his mate stan!!!

 

Who is this???

[Bomber Harris]

Ohhh, you're not allowed to say that

 

That was funny

[davemclaren]

Lived through it and read the book. The book is crud.

 

Most people in it are as hard as skitters.

 

 

 

 

John

 

Made me laugh anyway.

 

These things definitely happened but it's hard to understand the sentimental reminiscing of old hardmen.

[Carshalton Hearts]

Surprised that my book is still the subject of debate. To the guys who enjoyed it - cheers for the support, to the lads who bought the book (Jack of Hearts and Eddie) out of interest and didn't enjoy it - sorry - I admit that I am not the world's best author - but if you want some financial advice I am your man!!!

 

Anyway those days are in the past - some good memories, some bad, but definately in the past.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Scally. I can't really be bothered discussing who's firm is better than whose, but I've never met any fans more mental than Cardiff City's. Absolute ****ing nutters.

 

Regarding the Soul Crew a month or so ago I was driving past Ninian Park about 12.30 on a saturday afternoon and there were literally hundreds of them hanging around outside the front entrance. Convinced that there must have been a 1pm kick off coming up I went back home via a different route only to find out that the game vs Bristol City was a normal 3pm kick off but the boys were getting there early to try and get at ex Swansea boy Lee Trundle coming off the team coach.

 

As for CSFs book, it was an okay read in Thins in the Gyle a few years ago.

[Say What Again]

to the lads who bought the book (Jack of Hearts and Eddie) out of interest and didn't enjoy it - sorry - I admit that I am not the world's best author - but if you want some financial advice I am your man!!!

 

I could do with that a lot more than I could do with reading your book!!

 

Seriously though, hats off to you for taking the time and effort to put it into print. I did find it a bit of a drag to read but maybe I expected more.

 

I didn't mean it to turn into a personal vendetta against your book, but some of your buddies on here took my post way out of context.

 

If anyone has the last laugh it's you - because I bought (and still have) 'Riot Gear'

[eddie fenwick]

Surprised that my book is still the subject of debate. To the guys who enjoyed it - cheers for the support, to the lads who bought the book (Jack of Hearts and Eddie) out of interest and didn't enjoy it - sorry - I admit that I am not the world's best author - but if you want some financial advice I am your man!!!

 

Anyway those days are in the past - some good memories, some bad, but definately in the past.

 

not saying i never enjoyed it as it brought back a few good/bad memories,but just seemed to enjoy andy nichols and the likes for some reason,hows life anyway?still see anyone?

[Road Bridge]

Remember plenty of those days and incidents mentioned in the book were great times to be a Hearts fan. Book WAS a good read because as previously stated can remember many of them. As for those slating it thats your opinion and you most obviously weren't there.

[Sherlock]

I thought '...Riot Gear' was decent enough.

 

In Carshalton Hearts favour, at least he was quite honest about the numbers involved etc unlike the majority of hoolie books.

 

Again, unlike a the majority of hoolie books, the clothes got a good mention too.

 

Fair play to Carshalton Hearts. It was never going to win the Booker Prize or feature on Richard & Judy's book club but it was an enjoyable read for Hearts fans.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I am shocked that I can't ever recall reading it nor remember anyone talking about it. I am not having a pop here C and as a result of this threads I'm going to get my hands on a copy!!!

 

Was it before my time on the playground (88 onwards?)

[Debut 4]

I`ve had a copy for years. I remember some of the points made above, esp by Robertson9.

 

I started going to the games regularly in the mid eighties, about 1984, at the age of 10.

 

I remember the crazy corner singing "send your casuals over here" and i thought it was aimed at the opposition. It wasn`t, it was at the end of the Shed where the Hearts casuals usually congregated.

 

I think it was more evidence of the hooligan element not taking to the casual theme as quick as other clubs.

[speedbump]

A bit over the top dont you think.

 

The scene the book in the OP refers to was as much to so with fashion & camaradry as anything.

 

Speak to anyone who has been involved in that scene and they are the most often mentioned subjects.

 

It's an age old working class thing of having that little bit of one up man ship that dates back to victorian times. It's being flash and slightly arrogant that carried the whole thing and still does.

[Cobblers]

I enjoyed reading the book but to be honest like all books of this genre it over exaggerates the violence and the numbers of people involved. It definately exaggerates the "casual" influence within the Hearts support which from my recollection was always small. Infact I can remember when the majority of the the shed were as opposed to the Hearts casuals as the opposition support.

 

 

Many of the big battles in the book did take place but I always thought the casual element of the Hearts suppart were on the periphery of this rather than the cause. I was bus convenor on the Livi Hearts bus in those days and I think we had one casual one the bus ( and 51 headbangers)

[speedbump]

I didn't think the book over played the casual numbers and involvement, IMHO the book didn't overhype anything. It's a piece of social commentary as one man recalls it. Nobody ever remembers the same incident the same as anyone else.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I may get shot down over this however from what I could see there was a real problem getting the different areas to unite. I personally knew guys from Dalry, Gorgie, Shandon, that didn't mix well with other areas despite them all being Hearts. In fact there were many fights between different areas so expecting them to unite on a Saturday was always going to be a problem. As such, some of these people went to games wearing a scarf and some didn't turn up at all simply because they thought sections would turn on them.

 

I also don't think the Hearts mob was very well organised unlike some of the other mobs.

 

What I do find strange is that going back prior to the casual element it was quite acceptable for people who were seen as normal fans to have battles with other fans! It was completely different when casuals came on the scene at Hearts.

 

I recall being in the shed as a 12/13 yrd old with the fans singing 'send all your casuals over here' with it clearly being pointed at our own lot. We were the only support that really didn't accept this however I do think it was more down to the fact that in the early days they had a history of being done over or running away. Again this was because they didn?t have the numbers of the other teams nor did they have the organisation and as such was seen as an embarrassment! I feel this change over the years, but hey that?s just my opinion!

[davemclaren]

I may get shot down over this however from what I could see there was a real problem getting the different areas to unite. I personally knew guys from Dalry, Gorgie, Shandon, that didn't mix well with other areas despite them all being Hearts. In fact there were many fights between different areas so expecting them to unite on a Saturday was always going to be a problem. As such, some of these people went to games wearing a scarf and some didn't turn up at all simply because they thought sections would turn on them.

 

I also don't think the Hearts mob was very well organised unlike some of the other mobs.

 

What I do find strange is that going back prior to the casual element it was quite acceptable for people who were seen as normal fans to have battles with other fans! It was completely different when casuals came on the scene at Hearts.

 

I recall being in the shed as a 12/13 yrd old with the fans singing 'send all your casuals over here' with it clearly being pointed at our own lot. We were the only support that really didn't accept this however I do think it was more down to the fact that in the early days they had a history of being done over or running away. Again this was because they didn?t have the numbers of the other teams nor did they have the organisation and as such was seen as an embarrassment! I feel this change over the years, but hey that?s just my opinion!

 

Personally, any right minded person would think that violence, whether perpetrated by some smart dressed thug or some thug in cheap denims with a scarf, is totally unacceptable in a civilised society.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Personally, any right minded person would think that violence, whether perpetrated by some smart dressed thug or some thug in cheap denims with a scarf, is totally unacceptable in a civilised society.

 

You are right and some people do grow up! Though in saying that I was at the Heart v Airdire semi final at Hampden & a very respectable looking man in a suit threw a can of coke and broke my nose!!!

 

Lesson to be learnt....

 

Just because someone looks repectable doesn't mean they are!

Never trust a man in a suit!

When someone ducks in front of you, maybe you should also!

[davemclaren]

You are right and some people do grow up! Though in saying that I was at the Heart v Airdire semi final at Hampden & a very respectable looking man in a suit threw a can of coke and broke my nose!!!

 

Lesson to be learnt....

 

Just because someone looks repectable doesn't mean they are!

Never trust a man in a suit!

When someone ducks in front of you, maybe you should also!

 

I agree that people do grow up. Even old pc me did some things in his yoof that he ain't proud off.

 

Being a natural coward I always duck. I also agree that you can't tell the true psycho's by what they wear. Some people have the knack of being able to change from being a calm reasoned person to a homicidal maniac in a split second.

[Adi Dassler]

I may get shot down over this however from what I could see there was a real problem getting the different areas to unite. I personally knew guys from Dalry, Gorgie, Shandon, that didn't mix well with other areas despite them all being Hearts. In fact there were many fights between different areas so expecting them to unite on a Saturday was always going to be a problem. As such, some of these people went to games wearing a scarf and some didn't turn up at all simply because they thought sections would turn on them.

 

I also don't think the Hearts mob was very well organised unlike some of the other mobs.

 

What I do find strange is that going back prior to the casual element it was quite acceptable for people who were seen as normal fans to have battles with other fans! It was completely different when casuals came on the scene at Hearts.

 

I recall being in the shed as a 12/13 yrd old with the fans singing 'send all your casuals over here' with it clearly being pointed at our own lot. We were the only support that really didn't accept this however I do think it was more down to the fact that in the early days they had a history of being done over or running away. Again this was because they didn?t have the numbers of the other teams nor did they have the organisation and as such was seen as an embarrassment! I feel this change over the years, but hey that?s just my opinion!

 

I think that ties in with the different areas thing as well. Different groups doing there own thing and all that.

 

Different Edinburgh groups, Livingston, Kirkcaldy etc.

 

IMO Hearts have definitely had the "personnel" over the years but never that organisation that the other mobs seemed to have.

 

The people have always been there, just it's been a mish mash of different groups doing different things at times.

 

Then again, i am no expert.

 

As for the other books, i stopped buying them years ago but did buy the Hibs and Celtic ones out of topical interest. Deary me, lies lies and more lies. There were a few incidents that definitely did not happen the way they said they did. And that Dykes claimed he "retired" in the early 2000's. Hmmm.....

[winston churchill]

I think that ties in with the different areas thing as well. Different groups doing there own thing and all that.

 

Different Edinburgh groups, Livingston, Kirkcaldy etc.

 

IMO Hearts have definitely had the "personnel" over the years but never that organisation that the other mobs seemed to have.

 

The people have always been there, just it's been a mish mash of different groups doing different things at times.

 

Then again, i am no expert.

 

As for the other books, i stopped buying them years ago but did buy the Hibs and Celtic ones out of topical interest. Deary me, lies lies and more lies. There were a few incidents that definitely did not happen the way they said they did. And that Dykes claimed he "retired" in the early 2000's. Hmmm.....

 

 

 

pre season game agaist falkirk about 4/5 years ago.

 

there was a mob of around 100+ in a hotel after the game.

 

the police were outside with vans & dugs ect,somebody mentioned if only they could have got everybody together like this week in week out.

 

as has been pointed out already,they got more hassle from the hearts fans and the in -fighting aswell.

[Kinkster]

I blame the Southside Snooker Centre and Dave Doubledecks on a Thursday night. We always had the better gear. The book wasnt Catch 22, but it was an accurate account of the times. Unlike some.

[davemclaren]

pre season game agaist falkirk about 4/5 years ago.

 

there was a mob of around 100+ in a hotel after the game.

 

the police were outside with vans & dugs ect,somebody mentioned if only they could have got everybody together like this week in week out.

 

as has been pointed out already,they got more hassle from the hearts fans and the in -fighting aswell.

 

At least that's a positive.

[campagnolo]

Maybe the new generation deny it however it was common knowledge inside and out.

 

Why did Hearts fans fill up the top table of the CCS?

[winston churchill]

Why did Hearts fans fill up the top table of the CCS?

 

they never filled up the hubz top table,but there was a few at it due to turning their back on their own;)

[campagnolo]

the ccs top table was full of hearts,a fact that the lochenders still try and deny.

 

?

[winston churchill]

?

 

 

 

 

[campagnolo]

 

I'm glad thats all cleared up then:

 

5/6/08 "the ccs top table was full of hearts"

 

8/6/08 :"they never filled up the top table but there was a few of them at it"

 

Still curious to know why they were there. "due to turning their back on their own" is not a reason.

[MacDonald Jardine]

I'm glad thats all cleared up then:

 

5/6/08 "the ccs top table was full of hearts"

 

8/6/08 :"they never filled up the top table but there was a few of them at it"

 

Still curious to know why they were there. "due to turning their back on their own" is not a reason.

 

As i remember the story was that because most of the Hearts crowd (including the old style hooligans) hated casuals so much some went to Hibs.

I suspect it also meant they were running with a bigger mob.

[Dirk Diggler]

Before my time I quite enjoyed it though.

[Adi Dassler]

pre season game agaist falkirk about 4/5 years ago.

 

there was a mob of around 100+ in a hotel after the game.

 

the police were outside with vans & dugs ect,somebody mentioned if only they could have got everybody together like this week in week out.

 

as has been pointed out already,they got more hassle from the hearts fans and the in -fighting aswell.

 

I remember that.

 

I got footed up the erse by some fat **** in a blue Ralph Lauren t-shirt outside The Edge that day.

[Le Chat]

As i remember the story was that because most of the Hearts crowd (including the old style hooligans) hated casuals so much some went to Hibs.

I suspect it also meant they were running with a bigger mob.

 

That's pretty much how I remember it.

 

I know of two top boys in the Hobos mob that were originally Hearts.

[winston churchill]

That's pretty much how I remember it.

 

I know of two top boys in the Hobos mob that were originally Hearts.

 

 

 

their head cook and bottle washer, started with hearts then went with hibs;)

[Rudolf's Mate]

Why did Hearts fans fill up the top table of the CCS?

 

Maybe an exageration however there were a few at the top who supported Hearts..... Why??? Because when it all started Hearts didn't have a mob or where organised enough to have one.

 

Not only that but in the late 80's would you have gone to Glasgow or Aberdeen looking for trouble with hardly any numbers? I doubt it very much!

[Nucky Thompson]

There were scores of Hearts boys who changed to Hibs:sad: One had a Hearts tattoo while running with Hibs:confused: He was up at court charged with attacking Hearts fans and got the charges dropped when he showed his tattoo:mad: