Malaysian Airlines plane down over Ukraine/Russia border [SEE ADMIN WARNING ABOUT PICS/VIDS]

[Swarlos]

A Malaysia Airlines A380 flew over Syria yesterday.

 

I don't know how many other airlines currently fly over Syria in all honesty.

[Swarlos]

 

Not many apparently.

[djf]

I'd heard Syria was the one "no-go" fly zone. Either way that seems quite incredible.

 

Here's the Daily Mail taking a nice, measured and responsible approach to journalism :

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699456/A-chilling-echo-Nazi-death-trains-MH17-victims-begin-grimmest-journey.html

[redm]

The Daily Mail love the macabre.

What a horrible situation, the Dutch must be going daft about this.

 

The whole thing sounds a complete mess, much of which has been created intentionally. You get the feeling they won't have the full facts on this anytime soon, if ever.

[Swarlos]

I'd heard Syria was the one "no-go" fly zone. Either way that seems quite incredible.

 

Here's the Daily Mail taking a nice, measured and responsible approach to journalism :

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699456/A-chilling-echo-Nazi-death-trains-MH17-victims-begin-grimmest-journey.html

 

"The scene, a grim echo of the mechanised slaughter of millions in the Second World War"

 

... Wow.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

 

Not many apparently.

Plenty of Gulf state flights over Iraq though. Not the best of situations there at the moment either.!!!

[Jamboy81]

The looting is an absolute disgrace. Although to be expected I suppose, these people are no doubt very poor and a few dollars probably quite alot of money to them. Still it is sad that they can't maintain that level of respect to leave people's things alone.

 

 

 

 

 

[Debut 4]

Most of this thread seems to be aboiut Putin, rather than the rebels in E. Ukraine. They are out of control - he tried to pull them in before, but they ignored him. The missile unit involved was probably one captured when they overran a Ukrainian army base. Running over the border to Russia with its remains - I wouldn't want to stay around!

 

Putin's not my samovar of tea, but this is the last thing he needs at present (along with hectoring from the Aust. FM and 3-word slogans from Abbott).

I wouldn't be surprised if the rocketeers had already been put up against a wall.

Could we see a bit of a leftfield move from Putin? That he sends in troops to take out the pro-Russian rebels?

 

Sounds ridiculous and bizarre but nothing is beyond him , especially if he`s out to save face and his standing. Desperate men do desperate things no matter the cost and stupidity.

[The White Cockade]

Could we see a bit of a leftfield move from Putin? That he sends in troops to take out the pro-Russian rebels?

 

Sounds ridiculous and bizarre but nothing is beyond him , especially if he`s out to save face and his standing. Desperate men do desperate things no matter the cost and stupidity.

 

hardly likely given he armed them and they are obviously under his control

it would appear some "maverick" probably gave the order and maybe hopefully it will bring Putin

to his senses and put a halt to the Ukranian "war" but who knows

[Stoddyhmfc]

Good to see a hearts scarf in the tributes at St James's.

[indianajones]

Flight recorders been handed back by Russian separatists. In good condition apparently.

 

Wonder how easy these are to manipulate / tamper with.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Whatever they show, be it Ukrainian jets or SAM from the rebels, I wonder what the west will do.

[Gershwin]

Whatever they show, be it Ukrainian jets or SAM from the rebels, I wonder what the west will do.

 

Are they likely to show this type of info?

[Guest GhostHunter]

Are they likely to show this type of info?

 

"Show" maybe the wrong word - however the cockpit conversations between the crew in the lead up, will hopefully tell all - especially if there were any comms between the plane and Ukrainian ATC.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Whatever they show, be it Ukrainian jets or SAM from the rebels, I wonder what the west will do.

 

They'll impose sanctions and call for the "perpetrators to be brought to justice." In other words, nothing.

[Guest GhostHunter]

They'll impose sanctions and call for the "perpetrators to be brought to justice." In other words, nothing.

 

I was being slightly facetious tbh - Cameron/Rutte/Merkel etc won't IMO do anything apart bump their gums loudly frantically hoping Obama pulls the trigger first.

[Maroon Sailor]

 

Good to see a hearts scarf in the tributes at St James's.

 

Met quite a few fans down there who have Hearts as their Scottish team.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Looks like this is British response:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532

 

An enquiry into Litvinenko. That'll hurt them...

[Boris]

Whatever they show, be it Ukrainian jets or SAM from the rebels, I wonder what the west will do.

 

Nothing militarily. Economic sanctions increased, mainly by the US.

 

I find Cameron's rhetoric on this incredibly hypocritical. He was happy to support rebels in Libya, in Syria, in Egypt.

 

What happened is, IMO, a tragic mistake. In no way condoning the Russian separatists as they seem a bunch of thugs and gangsters, but I seriously doubt they intended to down a commercial aircraft. They have made an arse of it. I also doubt Putin was encouraging them to do so.

[Ibrahim Tall]

 

 

Nothing militarily. Economic sanctions increased, mainly by the US.

 

I find Cameron's rhetoric on this incredibly hypocritical. He was happy to support rebels in Libya, in Syria, in Egypt.

 

What happened is, IMO, a tragic mistake. In no way condoning the Russian separatists as they seem a bunch of thugs and gangsters, but I seriously doubt they intended to down a commercial aircraft. They have made an arse of it. I also doubt Putin was encouraging them to do so.

 

They were "our" rebels though Boris. Our thugs and gangsters can do whatever they want as long as long as their buying our weapons.

[Chrambo]

Flight recorders been handed back by Russian separatists. In good condition apparently.

 

Wonder how easy these are to manipulate / tamper with.

 

 

That was my first thought too. Then claim innocence when it's revealed they've been tampered with.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Nothing militarily. Economic sanctions increased, mainly by the US.

 

I find Cameron's rhetoric on this incredibly hypocritical. He was happy to support rebels in Libya, in Syria, in Egypt.

 

 

No different to Putin fighting seperatists in Chechnya but supporting others in Ukraine.

[tartofmidlothian]

I was being slightly facetious tbh - Cameron/Rutte/Merkel etc won't IMO do anything apart bump their gums loudly frantically hoping Obama pulls the trigger first.

 

This, basically.

[tartofmidlothian]

Interesting wee sidenote from the nastiness we've seen the last couple of days. The camera never lies, eh?

 

http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-plane-photo-perverted/

[Boris]

Interesting wee sidenote from the nastiness we've seen the last couple of days. The camera never lies, eh?

 

http://rt.com/news/1...hoto-perverted/

 

Very interesting indeed.

[jambovambo]

 

 

 

That was my first thought too. Then claim innocence when it's revealed they've been tampered with.

I guess they record data magnetically in some form - in fact I think I read somewhere it was on wire ... or used to be anyway ...

 

Nothing a spell in a massive magnetic field wouldn't wipe ...

[pablo]

If it's proven that there's Russian involvement they should have the World Cup taken off them for starts.

[Guest GhostHunter]

If it's proven that there's Russian involvement they should have the World Cup taken off them for starts.

 

Classy.

[pablo]

Classy.

 

What's that supposed to mean?

[Chrambo]

 

If it's proven that there's Russian involvement they should have the World Cup taken off them for starts.

 

Aye, this was my first concern after nearly 300 innocent people were killed.

[pablo]

Aye, this was my first concern after nearly 300 innocent people were killed.

 

Bet you whatever sanctions the West did impose, they wouldn't be half as effective as the public humiliation losing the World Cup would bring to Russia.

 

First concern, behave yourself?

[Chrambo]

 

 

 

Bet you whatever sanctions the West did impose, they wouldn't be half as effective as the public humiliation losing the World Cup would bring to Russia.

 

First concern, behave yourself?

 

Of course, if it is proven that Russia carried out the attack (or at least supplied to missiles) we should look to publicly humiliate them. I'm sure the families of the dead will feel justice is done.

 

 

[pablo]

 

 

 

Of course, if it is proven that Russia carried out the attack (or at least supplied to missiles) we should look to publicly humiliate them. I'm sure the families of the dead will feel justice is done.

 

Why don't you think it would be a suitable sanction as part of a range of sanctions? I take it you would favour a military response? As we both said " if "

[Ibrahim Tall]

FIFA is the only group capable of "taking the World Cup off them", and they won't do it. Whether Putins a murderer or not isn't there concern, that's a political matter and not a football one. The World Cup was given to Russia not its government and a western governments opinion on that is no more valid than Russia's.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the situation but that will be the statement given, I'm also not sure it's in the best taste to trivialise the death of 100's into the hosting of a football tournament.

[michael_bolton]

FIFA is the only group capable of "taking the World Cup off them", and they won't do it. Whether Putins a murderer or not isn't there concern, that's a political matter and not a football one. The World Cup was given to Russia not its government and a western governments opinion on that is no more valid than Russia's.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the situation but that will be the statement given, I'm also not sure it's in the best taste to trivialise the death of 100's into the hosting of a football tournament.

 

It's hardly trivial. Losing the world cup would be a huge international loss of face for Russia. More meaningful than pretty much anything the international community is likely to do.

 

If FIFA had any morals this is exactly what they'd do in the event of proof being presented of Russia's guilt.

 

Sadly, FIFA has no morals.

[hughesie27]

 

 

It's hardly trivial. Losing the world cup would be a huge international loss of face for Russia. More meaningful than pretty much anything the international community is likely to do.

 

If FIFA had any morals this is exactly what they'd do in the event of proof being presented of Russia's guilt.

 

Sadly, FIFA has no morals.

 

Why the world cup and not the olympics?

[Ulysses]

 

Why the world cup and not the olympics?

 

When is Russia due to host the Olympics?

[Rudolf's Mate]

Looks like this is British response:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532

 

An enquiry into Litvinenko. That'll hurt them...

 

On a side note it disgusting that it's taken for them to blow a passenger jet out the sky to get an enquiry into this.

[Chester™]

American Intelligence says it was a 'mistake' and 'no direct link to Russia had been found'.

 

Interesting twist?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28429161

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

American Intelligence says it was a 'mistake' and 'no direct link to Russia had been found'.

 

Interesting twist?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28429161

I think that was obvious from the start. The pressure on Russia is a political game.

[Chester™]

I think that was obvious from the start. The pressure on Russia is a political game.

 

Of course it is.

 

If anything is known about Putin, its 'ask normally, you'll get a normal answer'. Unfortunately, the EU and others havent quite grasped that, which beggars belief.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Remember the photo of the rebel "looting" the ring that's been across all the papers ?

 

Here's the full video from where the photo came from

 

 

Clearly seen putting the ring into a box, then putting the box into a lorry to be taken away...

[michael_bolton]

Why the world cup and not the olympics?

 

Is Russia due to host the Olympics?

 

If so, then I'd sgree with taking that from them as well.

 

Of course, none of this will happen. It would be a fitting international slap in the face, however.

[The Real Maroonblood]

 

American Intelligence says it was a 'mistake' and 'no direct link to Russia had been found'.

 

Interesting twist?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28429161

Not directly but they are involved indirectly.

[andy-y]

Remember the photo of the rebel "looting" the ring that's been across all the papers ?

 

Here's the full video from where the photo came from

 

 

Clearly seen putting the ring into a box, then putting the box into a lorry to be taken away...

The person who throws something onto the lorry has a black hoodie on so I'm not convinced it's the same box as the other guy had military clothes on.

[andy-y]

Remember the photo of the rebel "looting" the ring that's been across all the papers ?

 

Here's the full video from where the photo came from

 

 

Clearly seen putting the ring into a box, then putting the box into a lorry to be taken away...

Double. Grr also if the ring was placed in that box it would have fallen out after being chucked on a lorry.

Edited July 23, 2014 by andy-y

[tartofmidlothian]

Remember the photo of the rebel "looting" the ring that's been across all the papers ?

 

Here's the full video from where the photo came from

 

 

Clearly seen putting the ring into a box, then putting the box into a lorry to be taken away...

 

See my post above with the teddy bear footage.

[Guest GhostHunter]

See my post above with the teddy bear footage.

 

RT domain is blocked, so I can't see it - what was it about ?

[hughesie27]

When is Russia due to host the Olympics?

Though they were 2020 for some reason.

[FWJ]

I think the Russian military - professional and disciplined - will secretly horrified with the amateurs and gangsters that seem to be doing the fighting in Ukraine.