The Real New Realities (Newspeakisms)

[janie jones]

Unless you have tens / hundreds of millions of pounds or can influence this kind of turnover then in my opinion fan power has dramatically diminished in 'modern' football regards changing anything - so the the new reality is can people find ways to work with new owners for the productive benefit of the team /club instead of the mistaken view that these new owners can somehow be bought out except by other rich / super-rich personalities?

 

Many top Clubs except in dire financial straights are beyond the means of local business persons or fan groups etc.

 

I agree that fan power in the face of the globalised corporate takeover of football (have read the other thread you started) is diminshing but you would have to concede few other clubs are being mismanaged as badly as ours or the fans lied to as often.

 

Maybe we are just realistic and realise we are neutered by remote power but I sometimes wonder if a a support like say West Ham would have accepted their lot as meekly as we seem to have accepted ours.

 

In terms of the new reality I'd be interested to hear how we find ways to "work with our owner to find a productive way forward for our club". It seems the "lets try by persuasion and discussion" has got us nowhere and nothing suggests he either cares for the fans opinion or for success on the pitch.

[Charlie-Brown]

I agree that fan power in the face of the globalised corporate takeover of football (have read the other thread you started) is diminshing but you would have to concede few other clubs are being mismanaged as badly as ours or the fans lied to as often.

 

Maybe we are just realistic and realise we are neutered by remote power but I sometimes wonder if a a support like say West Ham would have accepted their lot as meekly as we seem to have accepted ours.

 

In terms of the new reality I'd be interested to hear how we find ways to "work with our owner to find a productive way forward for our club". It seems the "lets try by persuasion and discussion" has got us nowhere and nothing suggests he either cares for the fans opinion or for success on the pitch.

 

The reality is that whether it is Hearts or Man Utd or Liverpool or Chelsea or Leicester or QPR or whoever is that these new owners really are above & beyond those they replaced and their motivations etc very different from the local business person / chamber of commerce chairman / prominent fan etc. who previously ran & owned our clubs - maybe there is nothing we can do and perhaps we have to hold onto the roller-coaster for good or ill and see where it takes us or else maybe we just have to jump off?

 

Either way I think we have already lost the ability to make a difference in stake holder terms because the money involved is just at another level altogether so 'persuasion' and 'diplomacy' and 'discussion' is all that we really have left because any real power or influence had has long since departed?

 

This might be an uncomfortable truth for some / others might attack the messanger no doubt!

[janie jones]

The reality is that whether it is Hearts or Man Utd or Liverpool or Chelsea or Leicester or QPR or whoever is that these new owners really are above & beyond those they replaced and their motivations etc very different from the local business person / chamber of commerce chairman / prominent fan etc. who previously ran & owned our clubs - maybe there is nothing we can do and perhaps we have to hold onto the roller-coaster for good or ill and see where it takes us or else maybe we just have to jump off?

 

Either way I think we have already lost the ability to make a difference in stake holder terms because the money involved is just at another level altogether so 'persuasion' and 'diplomacy' and 'discussion' is all that we really have left because any real power or influence had has long since departed?

 

This might be an uncomfortable truth for some / others might attack the messanger no doubt!

 

Agree with your general point but you haven't answered my question. How, if at all, can VR be persuaded to do what is blindingly obvious to everyone but him. Have we not tried through fans representation, ex players and the offer of Hearts minded people to bring VR round by persuasion, diplomacy and discussion?

 

We can talk big picture but as you are well aware this is only being debated because of the state the club is in, with no prospect of positive change on the horizon. So lets talk Hearts NMH. What's to be done?

[john brownlee]

I went there with the hope that I'd be able to avoid all the dirty stuff that we've all grown used to here. I thought that there everything was clean, ideal, (that I would be dealing) with gentlemen. But it turned out that there everything is even worse...

 

What we would call base behaviour is the norm for them. It's normal for them to betray one's own club and conduct talks with another club behind their back or not to give their team everything on the pitch because someone has seduced them by waving the shirt of another club at them...

 

What is a head coach? He is just a small part of a long chain. If the club lacks any organisation, he won't be able to achieve anything. These days agents understand more about football than head coaches...

 

Well, if you've got five people in the team working for Celtic and Rangers, then what more is there to say? What could Malofeev have achieved?

 

I used to know a hobo player who was a rankers supporter but never good enough to get the transfer he always wanted, however he used to say he got to play for the huns twice a season. there are subtle ways like fall at the right moment head the ball the wrong way, its easy.

 

abit like st midden

[Charlie-Brown]

Agree with your general point but you haven't answered my question. How, if at all, can VR be persuaded to do what is blindingly obvious to everyone but him. Have we not tried through fans representation, ex players and the offer of Hearts minded people to bring VR round by persuasion, diplomacy and discussion?

 

We can talk big picture but as you are well aware this is only being debated because of the state the club is in, with no prospect of positive change on the horizon. So lets talk Hearts NMH. What's to be done?

 

Well If I am being true to my hypothesis then I should say nothing / very little can be done...however in a Hearts specific context the likes of Ogilvie, Mann, Frail, Southern & other club people as well as the likes of Lopez, Korobochka, Fedotovas, Varanavicius, Romanov jnr etc. these are the only people that can really influence Romanov in any meaningful 'personal' way those and other people whose opinion VR respects....all we (fans) can do is go or not go and 'hope' that makes a difference.

 

But me going to watch Hearts teams has always been irrespective of club ownership or how good or bad the 1st team, reserves, youths etc. were....maybe I am just a mug but Hearts are my team.

[Broxburn Jambo]

If you're round at someones house and the TV breaks it's perfectly reasonable to smash the place up and batter anyone you can get your hands on.

nice bit of humour

[janie jones]

Well If I am being true to my hypothesis then I should say nothing / very little can be done...however in a Hearts specific context the likes of Ogilvie, Mann, Frail, Southern & other club people as well as the likes of Lopez, Korobochka, Fedotovas, Varanavicius, Romanov jnr etc. these are the only people that can really influence Romanov in any meaningful 'personal' way those and other people whose opinion VR respects....all we (fans) can do is go or not go and 'hope' that makes a difference.

 

But me going to watch Hearts teams has always been irrespective of club ownership or how good or bad the 1st team, reserves, youths etc. were....maybe I am just a mug but Hearts are my team.

 

If he respects their opinion he either isn't listening or they are as ignorant as he is. I'm not sure he genuinely respects anyone, merely tolerates those he can control and manipulate, hence no leadership at any level in the boardroom, dugout or pitch.

 

Hearts are my team as well and I have been through some truly dark times football wise but I can't remember feeling this disillusioned.

 

Interesting you mention Varanivicius. What is his involvement in a "Hearts context" in your opinion?"

 

If you are as close to the flame as many on here suggest and your answer about what's to be done is close to the mark I have no real hope that any positive change will come soon.

 

Not sure if things will need to get much much worse before they get better but you know as well as I do that next season is last chance saloon for Vlad before we are back to single figure crowds. Considering the wage bill, the stated ambitions of VR and all we were promised it really is a shambolic state of affairs. That much I'd hope you'd concede.

[Charlie-Brown]

If he respects their opinion he either isn't listening or they are as ignorant as he is. I'm not sure he genuinely respects anyone, merely tolerates those he can control and manipulate, hence no leadership at any level in the boardroom, dugout or pitch.

 

Hearts are my team as well and I have been through some truly dark times football wise but I can't remember feeling this disillusioned.

 

Interesting you mention Varanivicius. What is his involvement in a "Hearts context" in your opinion?"

 

If you are as close to the flame as many on here suggest and your answer about what's to be done is close to the mark I have no real hope that any positive change will come soon.

 

Not sure if things will need to get much much worse before they get better but you know as well as I do that next season is last chance saloon for Vlad before we are back to single figure crowds. Considering the wage bill, the stated ambitions of VR and all we were promised it really is a shambolic state of affairs. That much I'd hope you'd concede.

 

I am not close to the flame in any way - that is the fevered imagination of many who see conspiracy everywhere.......it simply isn't true!

 

Regards Romanov then I think he definitely values the likes of Fedotovas & Varanavicius advice & opinion and others too however if he's the Boss and/or an entreprenurial type then the will either wait for the market / others to catch up with his ideas or else he will drop those plans etc.

 

Anyway I believe we will see new team management fairly soon (this summer) then we will see what happens after that.

[janie jones]

I am not close to the flame in any way - that is the fevered imagination of many who see conspiracy everywhere.......it simply isn't true!

 

Regards Romanov then I think he definitely values the likes of Fedotovas & Varanavicius advice & opinion and others too however if he's the Boss and/or an entreprenurial type then the will either wait for the market / others to catch up with his ideas or else he will drop those plans etc.

 

Anyway I believe we will see new team management fairly soon (this summer) then we will see what happens after that.

 

Not one for conspiracies just interested in sensible debate. Granted his entreprenurial track record is well established but football is different from nearly every other business as the "customers" don't change "products" in the main.

 

In this case there is no market to catch up with if the team are poor and the "customers" are hacked off. His ideas are clearly not working and a good businessmen needs humility in the face of poor performance and not stubborness in the face of justified criticism.

 

Hope your right about the management team. From villain to hero again.......might take a bit longer this time. One thing we all have in common is the curse of every football fan which is hope over experience. Here's hoping we can be united again soon.