Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I am probably wrong on this, but is it only unsecured Creditors who vote on the CVA?. My understanding is that Ukio are a secured creditor and the stadium is part of that security. The part of the debt that is unsecured, they will vote on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 If you could buy it for the same price why wouldn't you do it before administration? To dodge your creditors? OK let's repeat the exercise annually. Yes so you can dodge the previous owners creditors, your not only buying the club but inheriting 100% of the debt if you buy pre admin which was unsustainable so who in their right mind would buy a club with a minimum of ?25m debt more likely ?30+ when waiting will see you buy the club but have 0 debt and all fixtures and fittings ? Your effectively giving yourself a ?30m debt when you could give yourself a ?3m debt when the P in the ? deal is done including stadium (this figure is a total guess). We are lucky in the sense that Ukio and UBIG are stuffed this gives us better ability for them to take a much more reduced offer. Clearly no one would do this every year as it comes with many implications morally as well as financially and from a football penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 It is an encouraging development for one of the interested parties to go direct to the main creditor. ?The Lithuanian administrator has indicated he will vote for our CVA, albeit with a 15-point penalty for Hearts for entering administration. It is up to the administrator at Hearts to go through that process. Our bid is predicated on a CVA happening.? The above quote suggests that the consortium is already in the right ball park to meet the expectations of Ukio. Now if they can reach a similar deal with UBIG for their debt and shares then that will be the worst of the negotiations over. The willingness to talk to FoH also suggests that they would welcome the regular funding available from that source. I guess the success of that would depend on what was on offer to FoH in return. So far so good, with two groups with Hearts connections involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 On the face it of this sounds really promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Interesting that these groups feel they are better off working on their own than as one large consortium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 These 2 are exactly the type of people you want involved in the club, a lot of experience in turning round failing companies, due diligence, management buyouts, financial restructuring and strategic planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERjambo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I think if a bid is accepted now that we will avoid admin..... ...and then give the biggest GIRFUY to certain people that Scottish football has ever seen. Fingers crossed SECOND biggest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 If we are talking about pure money then yes. However, like Hector at RFCRIP, we don't know what any administration process at UBIG is going to look like. As there is no chance of any money, there is the possibility that they will focus on obtaining forensic details of UBIG's ownership. Hopefully, that won't affect us but that is still the wildcard for me. Focusing on the forensics of UBIGs ownership would be about following the documents, the paper trail and financial transactions ie studying the contents of the books and filing cabinets etc. Nothing there to preclude agreeing a sale of assets if bids are acceptable or in the range of expected values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 If we are talking about pure money then yes. However, like Hector at RFCRIP, we don't know what any administration process at UBIG is going to look like. As there is no chance of any money, there is the possibility that they will focus on obtaining forensic details of UBIG's ownership. Hopefully, that won't affect us but that is still the wildcard for me. there is that. but I suspect much of that will come out in UKIO's liquidation with the ties between the two. It could be that with so much debt to UKIO themselves, they won't want to jeapordise a potentially better return for UKIO by blocking a CVA. I would rather we'd managed to stay out of admin until UBIG's position was clearer, but we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Jose Carricondo Perez Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Trying not to get overly excitied reading that. CVA supported Bid from Hearts fans Willingness to work with FoH Kerr a menber of HYDC So many positives to come out of that. Will always remain warry until identities and strategy are unveiled though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swavkav Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 maybe this was Vlads plan to get us debt free after all, he is a nutter after all, but he is our nutter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 maybe this was Vlads plan to get us debt free after all, he is a nutter after all, but he is our nutter!! If it was, he shouldn't have joked about price tags of ?50m! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 The guys spearheading this group are accountants so i think they'd have done their homework before entering any possible bid. Wasn't Paul Murray a Chartered Accountant and look what happened to the Blue Knights' bid for Newco. Beaten by a carpetbagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin Delano Bluth Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Interesting that these groups feel they are better off working on their own than as one large consortium. How would that even work? 6 UK. 6 Scandinavians. 5000 Hearts fans, represented by the 12 or so people on the FoH board. Who has the control? How are decisions made? Even two groups working together wouldn't work, they'd have different ideas, want different players/manager/youth development, etc. Not a chance it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This on the face of it appears good news we are on the up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 it would be nice to get an idea of the plans of any interested parties on how to take us forward. the current situation is a direct result of having to take what was available last time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Jose Carricondo Perez Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 How would that even work? 6 UK. 6 Scandinavians. 5000 Hearts fans, represented by the 12 or so people on the FoH board. Who has the control? How are decisions made? Even two groups working together wouldn't work, they'd have different ideas, want different players/manager/youth development, etc. Not a chance it would work. Would have all the organisation of a 25-a-side school playground game on the back tarmac with a tennis ball at morning break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 The consortiums bid is surely based on us being in admin so there is no way we can avoid 15 point penalty as admitted by one of the groups figureheads ie. Paterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statts1976uk Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm not getting overly excited in case nothing comes of it but it's good to know that there are interested parties out there and we can at least put a name to someone working in the bid. Let's be positive about the outcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Meaning this latest crowd. If they are ' hearts men'and liquidation is a real threat, they clearly feel they have a chance with thier own bid rather than save the club with a joint FOH effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well I've got an extremely rigid boaby now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japanjambo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I think this plus the FOH could be a goer...fingers, toes and everything else crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 The consortiums bid is surely based on us being in admin so there is no way we can avoid 15 point penalty as admitted by one of the groups figureheads ie. Paterson. Correct, that said a 15 point deduction for a debt free Hearts with new Hearts minded owners is a steal. If this goes all the way and we survive the SPL next year then we will be laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 How can we possibly avoid administration or a 15 point penalty? We can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacok56 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Another EEN story states both UBIG and UKIO want BDO as the appointed administrator for Hearts and the takeover article stated UKIO's administrators (Valentas UAB) have indicated agreement to the CVA proposed. Is it not a good thing that both UBIG and UKIO want the same Admins (BDO)for us then? Have they already agreed together to accept the CVA when proposed ? Certainly hope so as this could expedite proceedings no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 The consortiums bid is surely based on us being in admin so there is no way we can avoid 15 point penalty as admitted by one of the groups figureheads ie. Paterson. yep. it'll be a CVA that tries to satisfy the two major creditors whilstreducing our liabilities to all others. it's the sensible thing to do from their point of view, whatever the morality of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Not wanting to get too excited about this, but seems to be pretty positive so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohang Jambo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Sounds very promising, but not wanting to get my hopes up yet. Please make this happen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynietigers Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is the same group that were over in Lithuania 5 to 7 weeks ago trying to put an offer in but couldn't come to an agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazman Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 From what i read these 2 are acting on behalf of the consortium i dont actually think they are in it. Like the crest group for the scandinavians. In terms of running it a chief exec would be appointed and they would be in charge. Unlike romanov the owners shouldnt call the shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Yes so you can dodge the previous owners creditors, your not only buying the club but inheriting 100% of the debt if you buy pre admin which was unsustainable so who in their right mind would buy a club with a minimum of ?25m debt more likely ?30+ when waiting will see you buy the club but have 0 debt and all fixtures and fittings ? Your effectively giving yourself a ?30m debt when you could give yourself a ?3m debt when the P in the ? deal is done including stadium (this figure is a total guess). We are lucky in the sense that Ukio and UBIG are stuffed this gives us better ability for them to take a much more reduced offer. Clearly no one would do this every year as it comes with many implications morally as well as financially and from a football penalty. No-one ever suggested making an offer including taking on the club with the UBIG and Ukio debts. The suggestion was an offer to buy the club debt free, giving UBIG and UKIO enough to make them take what was on offer because that was the best they could get. Not much different in fact from the post - admin situation where the administrator has to make them an offer via a CVA which they find acceptable. It is water under the bridge now of course. FoH and others have apparently decided it's worth it to avoid paying the tax man, small creditors etc. The stakes are just a bit higher now. Someone has to make an acceptable offer or its liquidation.(PS I see from above this consortium may have tried to buy pre-admin. If so good for them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Double Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I hope the early show of a hand will force other interested parties into the open. A bidding war can drag on, but it will filter out any tyre kickers and hopefully someneody who can take us forward, or at least return us to where we should be with the best interests of the club at heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Jose Carricondo Perez Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is the same group that were over in Lithuania 5 to 7 weeks ago trying to put an offer in but couldn't come to an agreement Are you ITK on this group or is this something you have picked up from somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kram Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 No-one ever suggested making an offer including taking on the club with the UBIG and Ukio debts. The suggestion was an offer to buy the club debt free, giving UBIG and UKIO enough to make them take what was on offer because that was the best they could get. Not much different in fact from the post - admin situation where the administrator has to make them an offer via a CVA which they find acceptable. It is water under the bridge now of course. FoH and others have apparently decided it's worth it to avoid paying the tax man, small creditors etc. The stakes are just a bit higher now. Someone has to make an acceptable offer or its liquidation. This is what some are not getting all along, the only forward (and has been for quite some considerable time is (from the atricle): ?It?s doom and gloom for the Hearts fans but administration had to happen. Now it?s happened, let?s move on. Being a Hearts fan myself, I desperately tried to come up with a solution to avoid the 15-point penalty but I could not come up with one. You would need to go through what I?d call a cleansing process to strip that debt away, which is quite frankly unbelievable. The more we looked at it, we weren?t sure that was all the debt.? It's spelled out right there, nobody would take on the club as a going concern, claims for what the club owe (which maybe are unknowns) are too big a risk for anybody, including FoH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 15 points and transfer ban or not this is extremely encouraging. I was hoping admin would push forward a bid and it seems to be the case. I'm hoping the Lithuanian administrators push the deal through ASAP and no objections are placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well I've got an extremely rigid boaby now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Correct, that said a 15 point deduction for a debt free Hearts with new Hearts minded owners is a steal. If this goes all the way and we survive the SPL next year then we will be laughing. "If yer auntie had baws she'd be yer uncle" But I do get your point, the above would be dreamland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Not wanting to get too excited about this, but seems to be pretty positive so far. Try telling that to CraigieBoy! But I'm positive too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Agree with those saying this sounds promising. I'd also like to think these guys would be able to pull in some fans involvement via FoH in some way, and at the very least both parties should be talking to each other to combine resources and above all capital ????. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is what some are not getting all along, the only forward (and has been for quite some considerable time is (from the atricle): ?It?s doom and gloom for the Hearts fans but administration had to happen. Now it?s happened, let?s move on. Being a Hearts fan myself, I desperately tried to come up with a solution to avoid the 15-point penalty but I could not come up with one. You would need to go through what I?d call a cleansing process to strip that debt away, which is quite frankly unbelievable. The more we looked at it, we weren?t sure that was all the debt.? It's spelled out right there, nobody would take on the club as a going concern, claims for what the club owe (which maybe are unknowns) are too big a risk for anybody, including FoH. Who are "we"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So we having a party if this comes off? (A wake if it doesn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.T.K Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 MAD PATERSON OOT. MAD KERR OOT. KILLIN' THE CLUB EVERYDAY LIKESAY. Just to get that in there early. FFS WHY WON'T THEY SIGH AN F'ING STRIKER!!!!!!! Raging!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Agree with those saying this sounds promising. I'd also like to think these guys would be able to pull in some fans involvement via FoH in some way, and at the very least both parties should be talking to each other to combine resources and above all capital ????. Agree with this, there's been a huge amount of goodwill shown by the supporters and it would be good to see that utilised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kram Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Who are "we"? Stephen Paterson of Haines Watts accountants one of the guys who are fronting this bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Stephen Paterson of Haines Watts accountants one of the guys who are fronting this bid. Thanks. Not just for the reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Given that they have allegedly sent CVA details to UKIO's administrator then I would expect the deal to be an out of admin purchase sadly. Best case scenario for us imo. What do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Agree with those saying this sounds promising. I'd also like to think these guys would be able to pull in some fans involvement via FoH in some way, and at the very least both parties should be talking to each other to combine resources and above all capital ????. And I'd hope FoH would welcome being involved if they succeed or have a good chance of doing so. 99% of pledgers would approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 it would be nice to get an idea of the plans of any interested parties on how to take us forward. the current situation is a direct result of having to take what was available last time round. Here we go...... Some people are never happy. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is better news than I for one was expecting to hear for a long time. Very encouraging and I hope something comes of it. Trying not to get too excited though as I'm sure there will be a lot of ups and downs to come before this is all sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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