Dr. Bapswent Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Unsettled-Copil-is-told-to.4050479.jp HEARTS have ordered Dumitru Copil to stay away from Riccarton until pre-season training begins, fearful that the AWOL Romanian only wants to return to ensure he gets paid. The club are adopting a hard-line approach after the Evening News revealed last month that the wayward teenager was preparing to fly back to Edinburgh and apologise to senior coaching staff. He has been living at his family home in Arad, western RomaADVERTISEMENTnia, without Hearts' permission since March after complaining of homesickness and frustration at a lack of first-team opportunities. Tynecastle officials remain concerned that Copil's rethink is borne out of financial reasons and have told him to stay away. His ?375-a-week wages were suspended due to breach of contract when he left but would restart if he came back. He is likely to head back to Romania at the end of the season ? a mere two weeks away ? and be paid throughout the summer, but in those circumstances Hearts doubt whether he would return for next season. As such, they are challenging the 18-year-old to show his commitment before allowing him back and have sent a training programme for him to follow in the interim. "Hearts worry that Dumitru will come back now for two weeks then leave and get paid all summer and not return anyway," said the player's agent, Adrian Stefanescu. "He was supposed to go back two weeks ago, Hearts made the decision not to take him back until next season. He should be back in Edinburgh around the middle of June. Darren Murray, the under-19s coach, forwarded a training programme for him. "He will train by himself in Romania and will definitely go back if Hearts want him. I understand Hearts worrying that he will get money over the summer and not show for pre-season. His wages are still cancelled, but he realises his own mistake. He is disappointed at not being allowed back for now, but he knows he is responsible for what happened." Copil's two-year contract carries the option of a five-year extension due to be invoked this summer, but discussions on that matter have been suspended for now. "I had a serious discussion with Dumitru," added Stefanescu. "I told him if you go back you have to be serious and work hard. He must also remember it's different for me because my reputation is affected by what he does. "It's entirely Hearts' decision now. There are other teams from Romania and Italy interested in him, but they don't know what they want to do. If Hearts don't want him, they should inform him and let him go. If they are not ready to give him another chance then there are other options." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Quick off the draw there Dr B, I had CTRL C'd that bad boy and was just about to post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Mad Vald OUT!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Surely this is far too logical for Hearts to have implimented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? I think it sends out the right message TBH. The agents words pretty much sum it up for me - if this really was Hearts in the wrong, he'd be getting proper stuck in to us. Instead, he admits its his player who's been in the wrong and his player who's fecked things up. Other than the bit at the end about wanting Hearts to let the boy know one way or another - I kinda got the impression he actually agreed with how hearts have dealt with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbryanthejambo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 If there's one thing that the Romanovs have it is business acumen. This could prove to be a shrewd business decision. Copil has proved by his actions that he does not want to return to Hearts next season.....why should we pay him in the meantime. I certainly wouldn't get to walk back into my job if I breached the contract. Whats wrong Dimitru? are the cupboards bare in Romania?? Scraping the copper jar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? The message might be "dont ***k with us" Not to many jobs were you can just come and go as you like. He'll get a chance to prove everyone wrong in June. This will be his last chance at Hearts I'd guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werwolf Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? It tells them that Hearts won't be pi$$ed about by someone who's not fully commited to playing for the club. By all accounts the lad is a good player. How he reacts over the summer will tell whether he's commited to realising that potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? Works for me, he's been taking the p*ss for far too long and now he's seeing Glen in the side....both of them away with the first team last pre-season....so he can see first hand what he could get if he tries. Kick up the arse, and fully justified too, we don't want any youth players turning up and taking the money for nothing in return, Scottish or foreign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not sure I like this situation. Freezing out a young lad is wrong regardless of his attitude. What kind of message does that send to potential young foreign targets? IF Copil is serious and not wanting just to "clock on" for getting paid over the summer, then this is the perfect way to find out!!! He went AWOL! It is entirely his responsibility!!! The message this sends to other young targets is, "If you mess us about and go home and stay away, then you're in breach of contract and the responsibility is yours!" I doubt if other clubs would habdle it differently!!! Hearts were very "compassionate" with Pinilla, I think rightly because he had a certified medical problem (clinical depression) - and look where that's got us!!! Copil is just in the huff! It's noticeable that there's not a murmur of complaint towards Hearts' action from his agent!!! On the contrary, he seems to be laying down the law to Copil! ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Works for me, he's been taking the p*ss for far too long and now he's seeing Glen in the side....both of them away with the first team last pre-season....so he can see first hand what he could get if he tries. Kick up the arse, and fully justified too, we don't want any youth players turning up and taking the money for nothing in return, Scottish or foreign. Correct. Lets see what a summer without tokens for the Beano and the Dandy does for him. Harsh lesson for a young chap ? Maybe it is - but it might just make him realise that he is fecking up a good chance in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbryanthejambo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 IF Copil is serious and not wanting just to "clock on" for getting paid over the summer, then this is the perfect way to find out!!! He went AWOL! It is entirely his responsibility!!! The message this sends to other young targets is, "If you mess us about and go home and stay away, then you're in breach of contract and the responsibility is yours!" I doubt if other clubs would habdle it differently!!! Hearts were very "compassionate" with Pinilla, I think rightly because he had a certified medical problem (clinical depression) - and look where that's got us!!! Copil is just in the huff! It's noticeable that there's not a murmur of complaint towards Hearts' action from his agent!!! On the contrary, he seems to be laying down the law to Copil! ................ Did Pinilla not have depression coz he got found out pumping the Chile captains mrs??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 He forfeits a couple of months wages - and if he sorts himself out, appears for pre-season with everyone else. Fresh start and hopefully a fresh attitude from him. If he choses not to go for the contract extension, then at least the club's not poured money down the drain. What's being asked seems entirely sensible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 think Hearts have done the wise thing, if he wants to play for us then he can come for pre-season but Hearts wont tolerate him using us to get a wage. Hope his attitude changes but not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 He forfeits a couple of months wages - and if he sorts himself out, appears for pre-season with everyone else. Fresh start and hopefully a fresh attitude from him. If he choses not to go for the contract extension, then at least the club's not poured money down the drain. What's being asked seems entirely sensible to me. Not his choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 100% agree with Hearts on this, same should be done with Pinilla. Pinilla should be pay as you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Copil's attitude amazes me. He comes from a country not exactly flushed with cash, by all accounts he has talent, yet he seems prepared to waste that. I've been re-reading Sir Bobby Charlton's autobiography and he waxes lyrical about Jimmy Murphy and what he taught him - teamwork - because the skills came naturally to him but he was never a football player till he learned what teamwork meant. It strikes me that Copil should pay heed to words like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Not his choice Matter of the club wanting to extend, I know. But he could still choose to refuse it if it's offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdewar42 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 IF Copil is serious and not wanting just to "clock on" for getting paid over the summer, then this is the perfect way to find out!!! He went AWOL! It is entirely his responsibility!!! The message this sends to other young targets is, "If you mess us about and go home and stay away, then you're in breach of contract and the responsibility is yours!" I doubt if other clubs would habdle it differently!!! Hearts were very "compassionate" with Pinilla, I think rightly because he had a certified medical problem (clinical depression) - and look where that's got us!!! Copil is just in the huff! It's noticeable that there's not a murmur of complaint towards Hearts' action from his agent!!! On the contrary, he seems to be laying down the law to Copil! ................ Correct. It's always difficult for fans, as mere observers in these affairs, without full knowledge of the circumstances, to make a reasoned judgement, but the agent's attitude speaks volumes to me. The club seems to have got this one right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 His agent wants us to say if he is staying, or release him.Why should we? He signed the contract and needs to know who the boss is. A couple of months without pay might be what he needs to pull the finger out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I like the sound of the story. It seems Copil is wiseing up a little. The agent is pretty much agreeing with the club. Hearts by giving him a training schedule and telling him not to come back until June are handling it the right way IMO. I hope we see a much different Dumitru Copil when he comes back because the boy has the talent, there is no doubt about that. If he is serious about applying himself then Hearts have got a player on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm with the club on this one. Clamp down on all the wage thieving at the club and make an example of him. I wish we had done the same with Beslija and Pinilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 As things stand I am told that Copil, Branny & Wagner will be off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I still don't understand why Wagner would be leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 As things stand I am told that Copil, Branny & Wagner will be off. sad as that is, think hearts are best doing that (though hope for branny being played as a striker with a partner, think he could shine that way) but Copil may be best cut our loses and Wagner does not look interested when I have seen him play recently. Think these players are foregin players with the wrong attitude. Think players such as McGowen, Visconte and Rapnik are ones with great attitudes. Hope our new scouting can pick out these attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Can we legally tell a employee not to turn up for work and not pay them ? Seems like we could be heading for a mess with this one. In the grand scale of things is ?375 a week really going to make much difference. Even if he leaves someone will have to pay for him so the money could be recouped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Can we legally tell a employee not to turn up for work and not pay them ? Seems like we could be heading for a mess with this one. In the grand scale of things is ?375 a week really going to make much difference. Even if he leaves someone will have to pay for him so the money could be recouped. It's the principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 It's the principle. I know that and i agree that the club needs to do something to get him in line. However i doubt what we are doing is legal and will no doubt be another mess for the club to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I know that and i agree that the club needs to do something to get him in line. However i doubt what we are doing is legal and will no doubt be another mess for the club to deal with. Not true - all they need to say to him is he's suspended without pay for two weeks for misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I know that and i agree that the club needs to do something to get him in line. However i doubt what we are doing is legal and will no doubt be another mess for the club to deal with. Surely Copil was in beach of his contract when he went A.W.O.L.? He's lucky his contract wasn't terminated with immediate affect for gross misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Suppose the agents comments do suggest that he agrees with Hearts and I can't make a full judgement as I don't know how Copil has been behaving. Just find it strange we are making an example of a teenage boy in a foreign country but let quite a few first team members take the absolute **** for over a year. Surely you make an example of the more 'respected' player and then show Copil the consequences of being an arsehole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Surely Copil was in beach of his contract when he went A.W.O.L.? He's lucky his contract wasn't terminated with immediate affect for gross misconduct. I doubt he thinks he is lucky because thats exactly what he wants according to some. He was in breach of contract and thats why he has not been paid since. However i doubt if he turned up we can refuse his right to work. The PFA would just love that and that ***** Wishart would be all over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 As things stand I am told that Copil, Branny & Wagner will be off. God you must really have a top source in a position of great authority at the club. Telling YOU that players are leaving before the players themselves or their agents or their families have been told. How are Hleb and Mendy by the way. Havent seen them around town much, have you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I doubt he thinks he is lucky because thats exactly what he wants according to some. He was in breach of contract and thats why he has not been paid since. However i doubt if he turned up we can refuse his right to work. The PFA would just love that and that ***** Wishart would be all over us. Fair enough mate but I doubt my employers would be too chuffed with me if I swanned off for a couple of months and then turned up expecting everything to be normal and for my wages to paid. The least I would expect would be a suspension without pay while they decided what to do with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I doubt he thinks he is lucky because thats exactly what he wants according to some. He was in breach of contract and thats why he has not been paid since. However i doubt if he turned up we can refuse his right to work. The PFA would just love that and that ***** Wishart would be all over us. He's suspended on no pay as a disciplinary measure. I'd imagine the power for the club to do this derives from his contract. Its certainly a fairly common course of action for players who absent themselves without permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 He's suspended on no pay as a disciplinary measure. I'd imagine the power for the club to do this derives from his contract. Its certainly a fairly common course of action for players who absent themselves without permission. I understand that however i assume we can't suspend him indefinitely ? He has already been without wages for a fair amount of time and i would have thought if he was going to learn a lesson from not getting paid he would have learnt it by now. I don't see the harm in getting him back and see if his attitude as changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I understand that however i assume we can't suspend him indefinitely ? He has already been without wages for a fair amount of time and i would have thought if he was going to learn a lesson from not getting paid he would have learnt it by now. I don't see the harm in getting him back and see if his attitude as changed. There's no point - all the youth players who aren't involved in the first team have gone home or are going home this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 There's no point - all the youth players who aren't involved in the first team have gone home or are going home this week. So why are we telling him to stay away if they are already on holiday ? Surely this is a non issue then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I understand that however i assume we can't suspend him indefinitely ? He has already been without wages for a fair amount of time and i would have thought if he was going to learn a lesson from not getting paid he would have learnt it by now. I don't see the harm in getting him back and see if his attitude as changed. I think in the circumstances we could terminate his contract with no further money due to him, but we have invested quite a lot of money in him and clearly we'd want that back before he got to walk away. It seems he has gambled on some other club being willing to do that, but this has failed and sees his next best option as coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 So why are we telling him to stay away if they are already on holiday ? Surely this is a non issue then. They officially break up at the end of the season but as there is no more U19 or other youth level games a lot of the kids are allowed to leave earlier - if Copil returned before the break up date he would be entitled to resume pay & get paid through the summer - Hearts are telling him to stay away & won't pay him through summer as they feel he won't return if that is the case (ie his motives are financial) they want to see if he will accept his punishment and return to pre-season with a better attitude & work hard to become a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I think in the circumstances we could terminate his contract with no further money due to him, but we have invested quite a lot of money in him and clearly we'd want that back before he got to walk away. It seems he has gambled on some other club being willing to do that, but this has failed and sees his next best option as coming back. Thats it in a nutshell IMO. He wants to leave but no one is prepared to pay for him. We would happily get rid but we want our money back we invested in him. Although he is clearly in the wrong by going home i can't help thinking we could have handled him slightly better. While you can't let him do what he likes some kids thrive on encouragement rather than discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 They officially break up at the end of the season but as there is no more U19 or other youth level games a lot of the kids are allowed to leave earlier - if Copil returned before the break up date he would be entitled to resume pay & get paid through the summer - Hearts are telling him to stay away & won't pay him through summer as they feel he won't return if that is the case (ie his motives are financial) they want to see if he will accept his punishment and return to pre-season with a better attitude & work hard to become a player. To be fair i doubt anyone would come back to the club after not getting paid for 2 or 3 months. He is a young kid who IMO has already lost a lot of wages and i think our point has been made. I doubt not paying over the summer is going to do anything to encourage him to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Although he is clearly in the wrong by going home i can't help thinking we could have handled him slightly better. Personally I think the club threw the towel in on this season round about January and players like Copil,Kostadinov, Rapnik etc etc should have been geting first team carrots dangled at them from then onwards. Instead we waited until April with a first team going through the motions and a whole raft of young guys desperate for a chance, not getting one. In some sense yes, you can see it from Copil's point of view but by the same token, his actions deserved him being taken down a peg or two and reminded who the employers are here. He's just a young laddie though and hopefully his agent and family have drummed into him that behaving the way he has wouldnt be accepted by any club who might be interested in him and has perhaps put quite a few off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 To be fair i doubt anyone would come back to the club after not getting paid for 2 or 3 months. He is a young kid who IMO has already lost a lot of wages and i think our point has been made. I doubt not paying over the summer is going to do anything to encourage him to return. That's fair enough then, no point in having him back. There must be loads of talented kids out there who never make it simply because they can't pull their finger out and think folk should bow down and scrape. It's been mentioned before but look at Pinilla, money thrown at him and he could very well leave in the summer having given nothing back but with ?1m or so in his back pocket. Copil looks talented but could very well amount to nothing more than another kid with promise who couldn't convert it to an actual career. If he wants to play at Hearts he'll be back come pre-season, if not then the club has saved some money. Season is essentially over, no point handing him some holiday cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 To be fair i doubt anyone would come back to the club after not getting paid for 2 or 3 months. He is a young kid who IMO has already lost a lot of wages and i think our point has been made. I doubt not paying over the summer is going to do anything to encourage him to return. I reckon they probably think he won't be coming back permanently thus they are not prepared to pay him through the summer holidays - if he does come back & work hard then fine he can try to redeem himself - if he doesn't then the club haven't been stung for more money........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I reckon they probably think he won't be coming back permanently thus they are not prepared to pay him through the summer holidays - if he does come back & work hard then fine he can try to redeem himself - if he doesn't then the club haven't been stung for more money........ and I believe, due to his age, we'd still be entitled to compensation if and when he finds another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Why don't they just let him go then? I don't really see the point of making the kid do this if they don't think he'll be back permanently. Let him find a new club - surely saves everyone some aggro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Why don't they just let him go then? I don't really see the point of making the kid do this if they don't think he'll be back permanently. Let him find a new club - surely saves everyone some aggro? Cos they paid out ?250k (I think!) for the wee fecker, need to get that back and could be nobody is beating the door down to take him off our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Why don't they just let him go then? Because we paid ?250k for him and we would quite like players to stop taking the ****, and also we'd like our money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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