Hearts Heritage Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This is buried in the Stadium Tour thread. So thought I'd give it a bit more prominence Said about John Cumming in the 1956 Cup final in "The Hearts" by Albert Mackie - Ch16 - A Torch Handed On p168 http://londonhearts.com/images/mack16/pages/p168.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What were the circumstances of his injury ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Clash of heads with Haughey I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What were the circumstances of his injury ? Collision if I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 What were the circumstances of his injury ? He only missed a minute of the match. See just before half-time. http://londonhearts..../1956042126.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Clash of heads with Haughey I think. Sounds like a foul on the Hearts goalkeeper for his goal as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Sounds like a foul on the Hearts goalkeeper for his goal as well. Charging Keeper allowed in those days. Hearts had scored a really controversial goal vs Celtic, 2 years earlier in the 92nd minute (in the days when there was no injury time). The season when they 'chucked' away the league title after beating their main rivals in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Collision if I am right. heid butt from a tim things never change show a bit of skill and beautiful football and guess what the thugs come out in force..... goalie bundled in the box and slicin' tackles all over the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 heid butt from a tim things never change show a bit of skill and beautiful football and guess what the thugs come out in force..... goalie bundled in the box and slicin' tackles all over the pitch Ah the man who knows Evening John, I will know tomorrow if I will make the derby next month. So I will PM Martin if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I had known the story of Cumming cup final head knock. Am I correct in saying that John Cumming never said 'blood doesn't show on a maroon jersey' and if I am at which point did it start being used like it was a quote by him? Is there something documented that may have led to it being misinterpreted as a quote from him? Just curious as to how and when this started being used like it was a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 I had known the story of Cumming cup final head knock. Am I correct in saying that John Cumming never said 'blood doesn't show on a maroon jersey' and if I am at which point did it start being used like it was a quote by him? Is there something documented that may have led to it being misinterpreted as a quote from him? Just curious as to how and when this started being used like it was a quote. Read post #1which explains it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Read post #1which explains it all. yep it was printed, it was a metaphor to reflect John's commitment to playing for his beloved Hearts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assessor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 John Cumming the greatest Hearts player ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi, Yeah sorry I didn't really put my questions over very well. I did read post 1 but I was more curious as to when it started being used like it was a quote and why it has risen to prominence recently. I remember Cumming being called the iron man of Tynecastle and other such names when I was younger but the use of the 'blood doesn't show on a maroon jersey' was never something that I had really heard until recent years and obviously the huge banner and t shirts last year brought it into prominence. What I am basically asking is has this always been a famous Hearts statement (which I just wan't familiar with and I have watched Hearts for 30+ years) or has it been something that has come around in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Wiki has it down as a quote from John Cumming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dee Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Respect to Mr John Cumming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Collision if I am right. You are right - just read an article by Mike Smith on the day Cumming died - he collided with Willie Fernie. He was off the field when Haughney pulled one back for Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Wiki has it down as a quote from John Cumming. Seriously Cumming didn't speak those words. It was written - see Davy's link at post #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Seriously Cumming didn't speak those words. It was written - see Davy's link at post #1 Yeah I know - I just googled him and found there was a Wiki page on him and I had a wee read of it. It needs changing as it's now conclusive where that quote originated from. Bit of a shame, in a way, that he didn't actually say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 You are right - just read an article by Mike Smith on the day Cumming died - he collided with Willie Fernie. He was off the field when Haughney pulled one back for Celtic. Not according to the 'Evening Times' report 'Hearts came out minus Cumming but before the restart He appeared with his eye patched' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Unfortunately the Dispatch report is missing the folds. Looks like he stayed on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Unfortunately the Dispatch report is missing the folds. Looks like he stayed on the pitch. Haughney went full tilt at Cumming and started his nose bleeding. Ref must have been pretty lenient with this guy. Now there was a suggestion of teethiness in the exchanges - love it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Published on 08/12/2008 22:05 JOHN Cumming, who has died at the age of 78, epitomised the never-say-die spirit which made the Heart of Midlothian team of the 1950s and early 1960s the most successful in the club's history. When Cumming joined Hearts in 1950, two generations of supporters had come and gone without seeing the team win a trophy, and only a minority could recall the Scottish Cup victory of 1906. When he retired from playing, he did so having made more appearances for the club than anyone else to date, and having in the process become the most decorated Hearts player in history. Gary Mackay, John Robertson, Henry Smith and Jim Cruickshank all subsequently overtook Cumming's total of games played for the club, but his tally of seven major honours is likely to be unchallenged for some time to come. With Cumming in the team, more often than not wearing the No6 jersey of the left-half, Hearts won two championships, four League Cups and one Scottish Cup between 1954 and 1962. He was the only man to be decorated for his part in all seven triumphs. Scottish football as a whole was up on its feet again following the war by the time Cumming signed on as a professional at Tynecastle, but Hearts themselves still had a considerable rebuilding job to do. For a club who liked to consider themselves as the biggest in the land outwith the Old Firm, there was little to boast about in the early post-war seasons, and their lack of success had made them the butt of music-hall jokes. "Could this be Hearts' year?" was the question guaranteed to raise a laugh in the late 1940s, just as jokes about Hibernian's lamentable Scottish Cup record do now. Cumming arguably did more than anyone to ensure that the laughing stopped, and the celebrations of the Hearts supporters could begin again. The team broke their trophy duck with a 4-2 win against Motherwell in the League Cup final of 1954, when Cumming was part of a team which also included Dave Mackay, Freddie Glidden and the Terrible Trio of Willie Bauld, Alfie Conn and Jimmy Wardhaugh. It was the next trophy, however, that was to secure Cumming's place among the pantheon of Hearts heroes: the Scottish Cup final of 1956, when Celtic were the opponents. In the days before substitutes, teams had to play on with ten men if one of their number was forced to go off because of injury, and when Cumming was involved in a clash of heads with Willie Fernie, it looked like Hearts were about to suffer that fate. Certainly, if any player were to be injured in that way these days, he would at the very least be removed from the fray, and probably be swept off to hospital to spend the night under observation. His team-mates knew that Cumming was made of sterner stuff, but when they saw him being led off towards the tunnel with a sponge over his face to staunch the bleeding, even they feared he would not be back. "When John doesn't get up again you know something is wrong," Glidden, the captain that day, remembered decades later. "There's a famous picture of him being led off with a sponge to his face. In those days there weren't any substitutes, and we all thought that John was not coming back. "Two or three minutes after the interval he came back on with a plaster, and the first thing the daft bugger did was go up for another header. That was the spirit that was in the team." The spirit ran throughout the team all right, but full-back Bobby Kirk knew it was at its strongest in Cumming. "If it had been anyone else we'd have finished up with ten men," Kirk recalled. "John was a hard man." But although he displayed that old-school stoicism which is so foreign to today's generation of players, Cumming was far from being the sort who played with a complete disregard for his own and his opponents' safety. He could not have kept playing late into his 30s had that been the case, and the fact that after hanging up his boots he was kept on as Hearts' trainer was an indication of how seriously he took correct physical preparation for sport. The glory days were over by then, and the slow slump towards relegation had begun. Poorly funded and badly managed, Hearts were on their way back to being the chronic underachievers they had been when Cumming joined as a young player. Those who only began watching the club in the late 1960s saw nothing of Cumming as a player, and had to rely on their elders for tales of his glory days. Those fortunate enough to have seen him play, however ? either watching from the terraces or better still being on the same pitch as him, could look back in their minds' eye and see a tireless competitor. "The ground he covered was unbelievable," Kirk said. "He wasn't a big powerful boy, he just played away. He was a proper gentleman too, and never bothered anybody." Cumming's death was announced by Hearts yesterday. He had been suffering from Alzheimer's disease for some time. John Cumming was born in Carluke and died in Carluke. But he lived his halcyon days in Gorgie, and it is as one of Gorgie's greatest sons that he will be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Not according to the 'Evening Times' report 'Hearts came out minus Cumming but before the restart He appeared with his eye patched' I'm going with this version of events !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ando Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 There was a interview with him before the 98 cup final i think it was on bbc and he talks about the 56 final and his time at the club. has anyone got this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpto Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Modern sports journalism sucks. I can't understand what half of these articles are talking about, but it all sounds amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26yre4bCaBw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 There was a interview with him before the 98 cup final i think it was on bbc and he talks about the 56 final and his time at the club. has anyone got this ? Think that was before the 96 final - I seen it on youtube a few years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Yeah I know - I just googled him and found there was a Wiki page on him and I had a wee read of it. It needs changing as it's now conclusive where that quote originated from. Bit of a shame, in a way, that he didn't actually say it It would have been nice if he said speak those words. John Cumming = LEGEND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpto Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26yre4bCaBw Wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Spackler Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 He only missed a minute of the match. See just before half-time. http://londonhearts..../1956042126.htm That style of reporting is magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ando Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 iam sure the celtic keeper was under suspicion of throwing some games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 As I've written on other 'threads' regarding the 'great man.' I was fortunate to catch the last few years of Johns playing career. A wonderful inspiration to all who played with him. And a truly modest and humble man. The original 'Mr Hearts.' All the rest are just pale imitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 As I've written on other 'threads' regarding the 'great man.' I was fortunate to catch the last few years of Johns playing career. A wonderful inspiration to all who played with him. And a truly modest and humble man. The original 'Mr Hearts.' All the rest are just pale imitations. If I was to pick ONLY 1 player to represent the great 1950s side it would have to be John. Until John and Dave MacKay joined Hearts were seen as a 'soft touch'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Didn't realise that Dave MacKay scored 25 goals for Hearts. That's a good return in 135 appearances for a left half. George Best said he was the hardest man he ever played against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Didn't realise that Dave MacKay scored 25 goals for Hearts. That's a good return in 135 appearances for a left half. George Best said he was the hardest man he ever played against. He was solid as a rock and his love for Hearts was unquestionable. Done wonders at Spurs and helped them on to the first 20th century double - hates that picture taken after that wee rodent Bremmer almost broke his legs (just after Davie returned from injury); the big man was always hard but fair. This is supported by the fact that he never did get a red card. Had a bit of a rough time at Derby after replacing Clough and went on to manage in the Middle East. Another Hearts legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 He was solid as a rock and his love for Hearts was unquestionable. Done wonders at Spurs and helped them on to the first 20th century double - hates that picture taken after that wee rodent Bremmer almost broke his legs (just after Davie returned from injury); the big man was always hard but fair. This is supported by the fact that he never did get a red card. Had a bit of a rough time at Derby after replacing Clough and went on to manage in the Middle East. Another Hearts legend. John Cumming or Dave MacKay ? Who'd be the first name on your team sheet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 John Cumming or Dave MacKay ? Who'd be the first name on your team sheet ? Both of an equality though given the longevity of his Hearts career I'd plump for John. As I've said earlier Hearts didn't win anything until John and Dave joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 John Cumming or Dave MacKay ? Who'd be the first name on your team sheet ? My celtic fan mate asked me who i thought Hearts greatest ever player was. I replied.... "It is either John Cumming or Dave Mackay" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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