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Incredible Daily Record Article

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Jambo66
Agreed. But thats the situation as it is, and it ain't gonna dissapear overnight.

 

 

 

I reckon things will improve in line with how the relationship improves. It's really up to us to build that relationship if we want things to improve. I'd imagine if we are whiter than white for the next few weeks/months, it won't take long for our reputation to change.

 

 

 

Think we'll have to agree to differ on that part. our discipline has been very poor for a couple of years. that has come from the top and filtered it's way down IMO.

 

Unfortunately, your solution is that we should be whiter than white and then we will start to get decisions. Does that mean that our players (and ours alone) should do everything they possibly can to stay on their feet no matter how difficult that is? Does that mean that our players (and ours alone) should not go in quite so hard when tackling or challenging in case it is deemed to be a foul? It doesn't work. The behaviour of OF players is no better or worse than any other team, but they are ALWAYS treated more leniently.

 

The only way to address this cancer in our game is to highlight every single occasion when referees are showing bias. It's not difficult to do, because it is happening in every single game we play at the moment.

 

Poncing about the pitch, scared to challenge or go down in a tackle will get us nowhere.

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The People's Chimp
No Colin: it's human nature. Every one of us are influenced by experience: which goes on to help form our world view. It's human nature for referees to be influenced by the constant talk about Lithuanian divers, or infuriated by Levein or Romanov impugning their integrity: and what results is subconscious bias. Hence why big clubs get a ludicrous amount of decisions all over the world: it's human nature to be influenced by 50 or 60,000 people yelling at you, or even that bigger clubs tend to have more skilful players. It's even human nature for officials who grow up supporting a particular club (which is natural: they're allowed to love football too, you know) to be unintentionally and unconsciously influenced by this while refereeing.

.

 

Yet time and time again, referees are reacting to the away fans at Tynecastle when they jeer them over awarding us a foul, especially to one of our foreign players, (but not exclusively) and there is a noticeable difference in the way they referee the game, the decisions they give and the fact that nothing of any import would then go our way.

 

I was just waiting for a Motherwell penalty the other week, just as i was waiting for a hobo to make it into our box before taking a tumble - job done for them.

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bean counter

The only way to address this cancer in our game is to highlight every single occasion when referees are showing bias. It's not difficult to do, because it is happening in every single game we play at the moment.

 

 

 

Totally agree

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Zico

I think the writer's view that we've only had a hard time (deserved in his opinion) since Miko dived against Scotland or when Barr got sent off (in what were quite similar circumstances to which Stewart got sent off against Gretna) is single fish. We've had a hard time off them since Levein had the audacity to complain about that clown MacDonald. It's not something that's just started in the last year or so.

 

I do think that most ref's are simply generally incompetent, with MacDonald the only one who comes close to actually cheating against us (he doesn't even bother disguising it any more). Clark I think is one of the better ones and has been fair on plenty occasions with us in the past, although he had a shocker on Saturday.

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leginten

I don't get it. Can someone tell me when it's OK to believe what the Weegie press writes about us?

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Cade

The Record, EEN, Scotsman and even The Sun all agree that we had a rough deal at the hands of either a cheating bassa or a useless incompetant erse on saturday.

 

Will anything be done by any of the football authorities that run Scottish football? Will it feck. They'll all just shrug their shoulders and say "them's the breaks" and leave it at that.

 

No wonder our refs are gash.

Imagine if we got Linkekar, Hanson and Crookes to do a one off SPL Match Of The Day. They'd be laughing their tits off at the standard of our refs.

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Feg9
haha... bizarre m.o.m. award tho.

 

 

Why was it a bizarre M.O.M award.

 

From where i was sitting Berra had an outstanding game.

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fc-1874

Cheating must be human nature.:mad:

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MacDonald Jardine
Unfortunately, your solution is that we should be whiter than white and then we will start to get decisions. Does that mean that our players (and ours alone) should do everything they possibly can to stay on their feet no matter how difficult that is? Does that mean that our players (and ours alone) should not go in quite so hard when tackling or challenging in case it is deemed to be a foul? It doesn't work. The behaviour of OF players is no better or worse than any other team, but they are ALWAYS treated more leniently.

 

The only way to address this cancer in our game is to highlight every single occasion when referees are showing bias. It's not difficult to do, because it is happening in every single game we play at the moment.

 

Poncing about the pitch, scared to challenge or go down in a tackle will get us nowhere.

 

Exactly.

We're putting ourselves at a disadvantage in the hope referees don't do it for us.

It's not really a solution.

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scott herbertson
I don't know what you're pinning on my now colinmaroon, but I've said all along, get our house in order, and let others worry about theirs.

 

You've listed above some of the many things we've done wrong to help make our current bed which we're having to lie in. If we now do the right things as we did at the weekend, (and IMO that means being whiter than white, due to the reputation we've earned ourselves) the rest will take care of itself.

 

I don't always agree with you JR but I do here. I think you are spot on in this argument

 

We need to improve our discipline and let the press campaign build. We tried moaning endlessly and gained a reputation as paranoid. Let's try the ultra-sensible approach and watch the SFA squirm as the press do our dirty work.

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Spellczech

Anyone tell me how many times Darren Barr has been sent off SINCE he tangled with Velicka? I recall at least 2 and this from a player his manager tagged as a "good honest young Scots player"

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Bordeaux 03

DANNY GRAINGER is the man who got Michael Stewart sent off for nothing this season. Where is the headline David McCarthy whoever you are?

 

Alan Hutton, Chris Burke, Steven Naismith.....if you have watched Rangers recently you will see these players do nothing but dive, Burke gets to shout and point in the referee's face yet he gets told to calm down with no bookings what so ever.

 

 

.......Kingston is booked for taking a early free kick.

 

 

Another thing which which stood out for me on Saturday was the overwhelming booing of the Kenny Clark at full time, we had just one a derby and a massive 3 points yet we found it more important to boo the ref, not a bad thing just shows our hatred towards the GFA.

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Examiner
DANNY GRAINGER is the man who got Michael Stewart sent off for nothing this season. Where is the headline David McCarthy whoever you are?

 

Alan Hutton, Chris Burke, Steven Naismith.....if you have watched Rangers recently you will see these players do nothing but dive, Burke gets to shout and point in the referee's face yet he gets told to calm down with no bookings what so ever.

 

 

.......Kingston is booked for taking a early free kick.

 

 

Another thing which which stood out for me on Saturday was the overwhelming booing of the Kenny Clark at full time, we had just one a derby and a massive 3 points yet we found it more important to boo the ref, not a bad thing just shows our hatred towards the GFA.

 

Exactly.

 

And while we are at it (when discipline was not in question) how come Hartley - as a Hearts player - gets done on retrospective tv evidence (same game as Takis is unfairly sent off, incidentally) for a sly kick when McGregor gets nada for his Kung Fu on Elliot.

 

The list goes on and on and whilst there have been times when it has, indeed, been self inflicted there is, just like you "referee an old firm game differently" they certainly referee Hearts games differently

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Deevers
"...despite what Hearts fans think there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat."

 

Well, right enough, Dallas has now retired, but is Andy Davis still plying his dubious trade?

:cussing::banghead2::sterb003::sterb032::gangsta:

 

No retired from the Senior List as well - but wait for it - now a referees assessor! Just says it all.

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JennytheJambo

I am in shock. Wait a minute I need to pinch myself and read it again.

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Le Chat
I am in shock. Wait a minute I need to pinch myself and read it again.

 

I needed smelling salts to bring me round again when I read it.

 

Astonishing.

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Zico
DANNY GRAINGER is the man who got Michael Stewart sent off for nothing this season. Where is the headline David McCarthy whoever you are?

 

Never mind McCarthy, following Velicka getting Barr sent off (similar incident to Grainger/Stewart IIRC in that there was a foul, but a bit of false face clutching got the offender sent off) Bill Leckie wrote a full page rant about how Velicka was all the cheating James Hunt's in the world. I used to have time for Leckie as he was generally pretty fair and had no love for the OF but after that outpouring of sheer bile, he can feck right off. That incident was also the main discussion point on Scotsport (before and after the game) and pretty much every paper in the country had a go at Hearts and Velcika.

 

I must've missed the same coverage for Grainger....

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Gambo
Indeed. So what do you think's gonna happen next week, now that the harshness of how Hearts players were treated has been flagged up in the media?

 

Do you think we might possibly start to get a wee benefit of the doubt?

 

And if we continue to "not do anything contentious", do you think it might get better and better as the weeks go by?

 

.

 

Brilliant, and the first time we do have a legitimate moan about a referee we will have to put up with it all again(bias refereeing) for a few years.

 

Not suprised really that you(imo) want Hearts to be refereed by a different set of rules to our opponents.:wacko:

 

No matter what has went on previously, a referee should be going into a game to referee the 2 sets of players on an equal basis.

To not do that imo = cheating.

 

I don't want the press waiting 2+years to highlight these decisions so we will eventually get the same crack of the whip as our opponents, i want that same crack of the whip in our next game!

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adso7

We get it rough because we had the audacity to question the integrity of referees and the sfa. The infamous night of andy davis and the foul that never even nearly was, was pretty much the start of this. He cheated we pointed it out - we get punished.

 

We have been cheated against the OF for years and years. So have most of the teams in the SPL. I don't think we will ever change the situation with the OF - look at man u, chelsea and liverpool or barca and real - that is the way it goes and the big boys always get it there way........it's why they get so upset when they play each other! In the past however I always used to feel that when we played smaller teams, particularly at Tynecastle, we would get the rub of the green more often than not.

 

Since that March night at Tynie back in 05 things have changed though. They got worse after Vlad, quite rightly in my opinion, called them cheats and the situation has become appalling since miko invented the dive against scotland in september.

 

I don't agree that it is human nature and preconceptions by referees although this may be the case on occasion. You don't book a player for taking a quick free kick, send off a player for touching an opponents chest or refuse free kicks when a player is hacked down (ala miko v killie) as a result of preconceptions. You do that to get your own back, flex your muscles and show who is in charge.

 

Unfortunately for us the sfa have pretty much shown us who is the boss. They may be a hypocritical and biased organisation that condones cheating by the referees that they employ. However, as we have seen this year, they are in charge of these refs and can instruct the refs to do their bidding - teach those jambos a lesson or two.

 

Having been bitch slapped by the refs it seems we will now need to play the game ultra fair, which our opponents won't, in order to get the semblance of an even break. It's tough but I think that is the way we will need to go.

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bean counter
The only reason that the papers have highlighted this is because of the stooshie created on JKB!!!

 

You stick to grumping and moaning about Vlad, and leave the serious business to those who care and can see that the refs ARE NOT playing the game!!!

 

 

 

 

..................

 

Bit Harsh............ when have I grumped and moaned about Vlad ?

 

 

 

I'll ask again

 

When have I grumped and moaned about Vlad ??

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Jammy T

Interesting thread

 

Just about every opinion is largely right to some extent. Sadly the Romanov caused "history" between posters prevents a unanimity of views. Not a criticism, just a comment.

 

First off.

 

Any disciplinary system which has the judge (the refs) the first court of appeal (a card when challenged goes to the original ref first to review) is fundamentally flawed.

 

Thereafter panels involved in disciplinary committees have members with affiliations to other clubs who may benefit from decisions made against certain clubs. Again fundamentally flawed.

 

Refs themselves will have historic attachments to clubs. They will also be affected by media coverage / criticism against them. Some will no doubt be racist. Some xenophobic. Some thick. Some easily influenced.

 

The system is open to corruption, and bias even before you consider incompetence and human error.

 

The SFA have essentially shown us who is boss. Whether by express internal directive - could you really put it past them? Or by implicit pressure / influence.

 

Then add in incompetence, human error and natural bias

 

We are the most hated club in Scotland IMO - refs will not be immune to the feelings generated

 

It is now embarrassing and is being highlighted. Lets not worry why. Lets just be pleased it is being highlighted.

 

But you know what happened at Saturday's game.

 

Despite it being a derby. Despite the crowd calling for blood. Despite not getting decisions. Despite being goaded by the ref. Despite Hibs getting most calls

 

The players kept their discipline.

 

Not only did we win, the papers were on our side.

 

Why should we be whiter than white? Sadly, for the time being we need to play the game.

 

Moving forward what we really need is to import English refs to our game and have an independent disciplinary body (and work permit panel come to that) - but that will never happen

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NoseLikeMahe

He's right, Hearts are reaping what they sow.

 

If a ref observes a foul inside the box by a defender on an attacker he should award a penalty... without even acknowledging who was involved. It is a foul, it is a penalty. If he's confident in what he saw.

 

When a ref observes a player fall and claim a penalty and he's aware a defender was close by and attempting to make a challenge, yet he's confident there was no contact, he should not award a penalty and book the attacker for diving... no matter who's involved.

 

Trouble is when it's neither of these the ref has to - naturally IMO - take all factors in to account. One of these will be what he knows of the personalities of the players involved. So when players cheat, they reduce their chances of winning 50/50 decisions in future. That may not be technically fair in terms of the laws of the game but I find it to be morally fair.

 

If it were Hibs, Aberdeen or St Mirren that had gained said reputation you have to admit you'd be screaming at the ref to dish out justice to those well known divers and cheats, wouldn't you?

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Brian Dundas
those well known divers and cheats

 

So exactly who are 'those well known divers and cheats' then? I can only think of Bednar against Partick and Miko against Scotland as 2 incidents where they could be correctly accused of cheating.

 

What I can remember is several occasions where Hearts players have been booked for diving when they didn't, and not getting free kicks when they are kicked up and down the park all day(Rudi, Miko, Chesney, Janny, Elliot etc). Somehow this gave us a reputation as cheats.

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Erik
If it were Hibs, Aberdeen or St Mirren that had gained said reputation you have to admit you'd be screaming at the ref to dish out justice to those well known divers and cheats, wouldn't you?

 

This is my point though - Hibs have just as bad, if not worse, record for bookings picked up for diving - so why dont THEY have a repuation for it? Why are THEY not "reaping what they sow"??

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schillaci
Morais takes a dive. Hibs get a free kick. No card for simulation.

 

Velicka is fouled inside the box. No penalty awarded. Yellow card issued for simulation.

 

It IS cheating.

 

It is inconsistent, but not necessarily cheating. There is a difference. And the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

Edit: sorry didn't realise that this thread ran on for four pages before my tuppence-worth was added. A bit off the pace.

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gorgie rd eh11
I don't get it. Can someone tell me when it's OK to believe what the Weegie press writes about us?

 

Never.

 

In fact if they are saying that it is happening then i'm not sure it is. Either that or it is so blatant even old firm a** kissers can't ignore it any longer.

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Tommy Wiseau
He's right, Hearts are reaping what they sow.

 

If a ref observes a foul inside the box by a defender on an attacker he should award a penalty... without even acknowledging who was involved. It is a foul, it is a penalty. If he's confident in what he saw.

 

When a ref observes a player fall and claim a penalty and he's aware a defender was close by and attempting to make a challenge, yet he's confident there was no contact, he should not award a penalty and book the attacker for diving... no matter who's involved.

 

Trouble is when it's neither of these the ref has to - naturally IMO - take all factors in to account. One of these will be what he knows of the personalities of the players involved. So when players cheat, they reduce their chances of winning 50/50 decisions in future. That may not be technically fair in terms of the laws of the game but I find it to be morally fair.

 

If it were Hibs, Aberdeen or St Mirren that had gained said reputation you have to admit you'd be screaming at the ref to dish out justice to those well known divers and cheats, wouldn't you?

 

 

 

So it's 'morally fair' to give incorrect decisions against a team because of prior reputation?

 

Couldn't disagree more.

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Guest JamboRobbo
So it's 'morally fair' to give incorrect decisions against a team because of prior reputation?

 

Couldn't disagree more.

 

IMO, It's the way of the world though. Not just in football, but in life in general.

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Tommy Wiseau
IMO, It's the way of the world though. Not just in football, but in life in general.

 

 

 

I agree with that JR, but 'morally fair'?

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Guest JamboRobbo
I agree with that JR, but 'morally fair'?

 

Not at all fair. But the world we have to survive/compete in.....hence we have to play the game or it'll be us that lose out, not the refs.

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bean counter

Originally Posted by colinmaroon

The only reason that the papers have highlighted this is because of the stooshie created on JKB!!!

 

You stick to grumping and moaning about Vlad, and leave the serious business to those who care and can see that the refs ARE NOT playing the game!!!

 

 

 

 

..................

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bean counter

Bit Harsh............ when have I grumped and moaned about Vlad ?

 

 

 

I'll ask again

 

When have I grumped and moaned about Vlad ??

 

 

Colinmaroon

Your post suggests that

 

I don't care and am therefore not to be included in any serious debate and that I just grump and moan about Vlad

 

Well for the third time of asking, When have I grumped and moaned about Vlad ? please produce some back up to this claim.

 

I also find your suggestion that I don't care offensive

 

Just because I do not post as regularly as some does not make me care any less.

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