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Examiner

Incredible Daily Record Article

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CBjambo

Yup... read that too and was fairly gobsmacked to say the least!

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Des' Dad

I'm sure David Mcarthy used to write about Hearts for the EEN. About time that biased officials were exposed in the weegie press.

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Examiner
So did I must have slipped through the net.

 

Are you Makalamby?

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lambojambo

Frankly I am (pleasantly) gobsmacked!!!:eek:

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basher161

Wow, positive Hearts story in the Daily Ranger :eek:

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Brick Tamland

As you say unbelievable, the weegie press acknowledging the fact that we are treated poorly by referees, can't see this reporter lasting long.

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chester copperpot

That article borders on racism.

 

Fecking joke of a paper, hence why I no longer read the redtops, whether that be newspaper form or internet based.

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ToadKiller Dog
As you say unbelievable, the weegie press acknowledging the fact that we are treated poorly by referees, can't see this reporter lasting long.

 

Yep will be back to covering the shinty reports for him.

but yes have noticed a few reporters starting to take this line,might be because we at the moment are no threat to the uglies ,but good to see anyways.

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Erik

Fairly decent write up of the game.

 

Not sure about this bit though....

 

"Clark isn't a bent referee - anything but. And despite what Hearts fans think there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat.

 

However, in the split second the whistler had to make his decision on Saturday, did Velicka's "previous" flash through his mind? Maybe - and if so the player didn't get the benefit of the doubt and worse than that, he was booked for simulation."

 

Ok, so ref's "dont cheat" - they just judge incidents not on their worth but instead on the "previous" of the player???? Contradiction?

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K1874M

haha... bizarre m.o.m. award tho.

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jambo-rocker

typical west coast pish

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Erik
typical west coast pish

 

Have you read it? What parts do you think are "pish"?

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winners

Really please to read an article from any of the papers that reflected my views, still not buying that rag tho'!!

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adayinmay

I read this article from the link posted here and fully expected it to be very anti Hearts but I've got to say its spot on. Fair play for pointing out the obvious and calling the poor decisions against Velicka et al pre-determined.

 

Andy68Hearts I'd read it again. Nothing racist there.

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the voice from above

IN A STATE OF SHOCK NOW...

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chester copperpot
I read this article from the link posted here and fully expected it to be very anti Hearts but I've got to say its spot on. Fair play for pointing out the obvious and calling the poor decisions against Velicka et al pre-determined.

 

Andy68Hearts I'd read it again. Nothing racist there.

 

 

 

I thought the anti Lithuanian slant was obvious, however may be mistaken as I only read it the once.

 

My bad, dont have the desire to read it again though.

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JamboAl

This game was on national TV, albeit Setanta, for all to see and it now seems to be getting too embarrassing for Scottish football that weegie newspaper (?) hacks are having to intervene.

Although Clark in in his final season it's time the SFA did something about referees' incompetence (?) as they do in England and ban them for a short period as happened with Uriah Rennie. Of course if it is indeed corrupt and if the SFA are in on it, then perhaps it is understandable that they do nothing.

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shaun.lawson
That article borders on racism.

 

Fecking joke of a paper, hence why I no longer read the redtops, whether that be newspaper form or internet based.

 

:hae36::Stupid_Heads_by_Vir

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Moriarty

hmmm.

 

Is it any suprise a pro hearts story is allowed to appear in the Daily Rankger now we aren't a threat to the OF in the league?

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Guest JamboRobbo

aye, but the weegie media are all out to get us eh/ :confused:

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footieman
That article borders on racism.

 

Fecking joke of a paper, hence why I no longer read the redtops, whether that be newspaper form or internet based.

 

I take it you read as far as the third paragraph, if you read the rest you will probably be pleasantly surprised. ;)

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colinmaroon
Fairly decent write up of the game.

 

Not sure about this bit though....

 

"Clark isn't a bent referee - anything but. And despite what Hearts fans think there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat.

 

However, in the split second the whistler had to make his decision on Saturday, did Velicka's "previous" flash through his mind? Maybe - and if so the player didn't get the benefit of the doubt and worse than that, he was booked for simulation."

 

Ok, so ref's "dont cheat" - they just judge incidents not on their worth but instead on the "previous" of the player???? Contradiction?

 

 

 

An honest assessment of the "decision making" process cannot come up with any other conclusion!

 

Referees are making decisions on other than what is happening in front of their eyes - and no matter the machinations of their prejudices or otherwise (and I believe that the problem goes a lot deeper than just two "diving incidents" - right back to Craig Levein v GFA and Vlad's unwise, perhaps, but obviously justifiable outbursts) - it doesn't matter -

 

it is CHEATING!!!

 

 

 

 

.............

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Boris

What I don't get is that the journalist says

 

ANDRIUS VELICKA is the man who got Darren Barr sent off for nothing last season.

 

Saulius Mikoliunas dived to win a totally unwarranted penalty for Lithuania that might just have knocked Scotland out of the European Championship this term.

 

Both are irrefutable facts and two reasons why Hearts are now reaping what their players have sown.

 

This team don't get penalty kicks when they deserve them. Not any more. Not when their Lithuanian contingent is involved. This team don't get fouls outside the box when they have been felled either but they do get bookings for diving even when they haven't.

 

 

but then says

 

despite what Hearts fans think there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat.

 

Which is it then?

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Mysterion

wow!

 

a positive story.

we can all scoff at it - but hopefully some whistlers / sfa beaks will take note and this could turn in our favour.

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colinmaroon
This game was on national TV, albeit Setanta, for all to see and it now seems to be getting too embarrassing for Scottish football that weegie newspaper (?) hacks are having to intervene.

Although Clark in in his final season it's time the SFA did something about referees' incompetence (?) as they do in England and ban them for a short period as happened with Uriah Rennie. Of course if it is indeed corrupt and if the SFA are in on it, then perhaps it is understandable that they do nothing.

 

Nail hit the head on the!!!!

 

 

 

.....................

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Commander Harris

while I welcome the fact that a journalist has recognised the bias against Hearts, and specifically the bias against Hearts' Lithuanian players, the writer can only cite one example of a Lithuanian player cheating in a Hearts jersey. I know he has been clear to say that two wrongs don't make a right(and he is spot on there!) but I think that he overstates the misdemeanors of the lithuanian contingent at Hearts, which is exactly the same thing the referees are doing.

 

As for his statement that "there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. "Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat." There is no way he can state that so categorically, epecially when he concedes that officials make decisions based on highly flawed preconceptions.

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shaun.lawson
An honest assessment of the "decision making" process cannot come up with any other conclusion!

 

Referees are making decisions on other than what is happening in front of their eyes - and no matter the machinations of their prejudices or otherwise (and I believe that the problem goes a lot deeper than just two "diving incidents" - right back to Craig Levein v GFA and Vlad's unwise, perhaps, but obviously justifiable outbursts) - it doesn't matter -

 

it is CHEATING!!!

 

 

 

.............

 

No Colin: it's human nature. Every one of us are influenced by experience: which goes on to help form our world view. It's human nature for referees to be influenced by the constant talk about Lithuanian divers, or infuriated by Levein or Romanov impugning their integrity: and what results is subconscious bias. Hence why big clubs get a ludicrous amount of decisions all over the world: it's human nature to be influenced by 50 or 60,000 people yelling at you, or even that bigger clubs tend to have more skilful players. It's even human nature for officials who grow up supporting a particular club (which is natural: they're allowed to love football too, you know) to be unintentionally and unconsciously influenced by this while refereeing.

 

I don't like it, and it certainly doesn't make for a level playing field. Refereeing bias is just another reason why I don't believe anyone will ever stop either half of the OF winning the league again. But it's a reflection of natural human flaws - not, in my opinion, of cheating.

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Lovecraft
aye, but the weegie media are all out to get us eh/ :confused:

 

 

They allow one article that is bordering on truthful and you think that means we get a fair deal in the press?

 

LOL

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Saint Jambo
Fairly decent write up of the game.

 

Not sure about this bit though....

 

"Clark isn't a bent referee - anything but. And despite what Hearts fans think there are no corrupt officials operating in our game. Flawed? Certainly. But they don't cheat.

 

However, in the split second the whistler had to make his decision on Saturday, did Velicka's "previous" flash through his mind? Maybe - and if so the player didn't get the benefit of the doubt and worse than that, he was booked for simulation."

 

Ok, so ref's "dont cheat" - they just judge incidents not on their worth but instead on the "previous" of the player???? Contradiction?

 

Not cheating, just incompetently allowing preconcieved notions to affect their decisions. This is I think at the root of a lot of what is wrong with Scottish refereeing (although there are probably a few OF fans in there who allow that to influence them). Refs spend all their time reading and hearing how good Celtic and Rangers are compared to the rest so assume that to stop a OF attack requires following them, whilst OF defenders are capable of great tackles. This goes to extremes where the media worship a player such as Larsson or Nakamura who can then dive and get the foul every time.

 

For other teams it tends to be specific players who get a reputation for skill, great tackling, fouling, being a hot head or diving and this influences decisions involving them. This applies to a number of Hearts players at the moment highlighted in the article. But Hearts have now got a team reputation of diving, fouling, cheating, and generally causing trouble (some of which are deserved) and this now leads to refs going into the game ready to stamp their control on the team, book players and not be conned.

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Guest JamboRobbo
They allow one article that is bordering on truthful and you think that means we get a fair deal in the press?

 

LOL

 

aye, thats what I said right enough.

 

LOL.

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Guest JamboRobbo
But Hearts have now got a team reputation of diving, fouling, cheating, and generally causing trouble (some of which are deserved) and this now leads to refs going into the game ready to stamp their control on the team, book players and not be conned.

 

thats the crux of it. We have a reputation. We earned it. (hence "reap what you sow").

 

It's up to us to rid ourselves of our reputation (by being whiter than white).

 

Either that, or we can try to change human nature (ie stop refs subconciously taking into account their preconceptions when interpreting things ).

 

I think ridding ourselves of our reputation would be the easier of the two options.

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Erik
this now leads to refs going into the game ready to stamp their control on the team, book players and not be conned.

 

Morais takes a dive. Hibs get a free kick. No card for simulation.

 

Velicka is fouled inside the box. No penalty awarded. Yellow card issued for simulation.

 

It IS cheating.

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Erik
thats the crux of it. We have a reputation. We earned it. (hence "reap what you sow").

 

It's up to us to rid ourselves of our reputation (by being whiter than white).

 

Either that, or we can try to change human nature (stop refs subconciously interpreting things taking into account their preconceptions).

 

I think ridding ourselves of our reputation would be the easier of the two options.

 

How can you rid yourselves of a reputation when even when you DO play fair, you are still cheated?

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Dr. Bapswent
What I don't get is that the journalist says

 

 

 

but then says

 

 

 

Which is it then?

 

 

 

I was about to ask the exact same thing.

 

nonsense.

 

Good to see some pro-HMFC words written though.

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Guest GhostHunter
Velicka was helped by Yves Ma-Kalambay juggling the ball like a man with no hands

 

:rofl::rofl:

 

:D

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bean counter

Barry Anderson makes a similar point in tonights EEN

 

" despite at times playing against 12 men given the performance of referee Kenny Clark "

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Saint Jambo
Morais takes a dive. Hibs get a free kick. No card for simulation.

 

Velicka is fouled inside the box. No penalty awarded. Yellow card issued for simulation.

 

It IS cheating.

 

But Morais doesn't have a reputation for cheating. Velicka and Hearts do. That might be right or it might be wrong but it's certainly true. Now I'm suggesting that when the ref then sees an incident these preconceptions influence his decision. Presumably you are suggesting that Kenny Clark was out to influence the result of the game against Hearts? In which case why didn't he give the penalty against Karipidis?

 

In my view it is incompetence. That is not the same as cheating.

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Jasonauskas
No Colin: it's human nature. Every one of us are influenced by experience: which goes on to help form our world view. It's human nature for referees to be influenced by the constant talk about Lithuanian divers, or infuriated by Levein or Romanov impugning their integrity: and what results is subconscious bias. Hence why big clubs get a ludicrous amount of decisions all over the world: it's human nature to be influenced by 50 or 60,000 people yelling at you, or even that bigger clubs tend to have more skilful players. It's even human nature for officials who grow up supporting a particular club (which is natural: they're allowed to love football too, you know) to be unintentionally and unconsciously influenced by this while refereeing.

 

I don't like it, and it certainly doesn't make for a level playing field. Refereeing bias is just another reason why I don't believe anyone will ever stop either half of the OF winning the league again. But it's a reflection of natural human flaws - not, in my opinion, of cheating.

 

If you seen the huge grin on Clarks face as he left the field to the chorus of "boos", he was loving it. That made my mnd up as to Clarks ability and it didnt include icompetance.

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Guest JamboRobbo
How can you rid yourselves of a reputation when even when you DO play fair, you are still cheated?

 

By being whiter than white.

 

Then we'll get reports like this one in the paper today. Before you know it, we'll have a reputation for being hard done by.

 

Then suddenly, we'll be the ones who have preconceptions going in our favour rather than against us.

 

Exactly the same process as got us in this position in the first place.

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Erik
But Morais doesn't have a reputation for cheating. Velicka and Hearts do. That might be right or it might be wrong but it's certainly true. Now I'm suggesting that when the ref then sees an incident these preconceptions influence his decision. Presumably you are suggesting that Kenny Clark was out to influence the result of the game against Hearts? In which case why didn't he give the penalty against Karipidis?

 

In my view it is incompetence. That is not the same as cheating.

 

Hearts have a repuatation for cheating but Hibs dont?? I'm pretty sure taht over the last season or two, Hibs have had MORE players booked for diving than Hearts.

 

A referee should not even be paying attention to WHAT players are involved. An incident is an incident regardless of WHO is involved. It was an incident if It was Velicka, but it would have been the very same incident if it had been anyone else. The fact its Velicka SHOULDNT have made a difference, and allowing the WHO to effect you more than the WHAT is, in my opinion, cheating. It is not fair. It is giving the other team an undeserved advantage.

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Gambo
aye, but the weegie media are all out to get us eh/ :confused:

 

Been going on for ages, but only now they come out with this. Why is this? IMO it is because now the referees are being so blatant in their actions against us that it is hard for the media to now ignore.

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Guest JamboRobbo
Hearts have a repuatation for cheating but Hibs dont??

 

If you didn't know that, I have to question where you've been the past few years.

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Guest JamboRobbo
Been going on for ages, but only now they come out with this. Why is this? IMO it is because now the referees are being so blatant in their actions against us that it is hard for the media to now ignore.

 

Or maybe it's because they aren't Hearts fans, and look at things without maroon blinkers on.

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Erik
If you didn't know that, I have to question where you've been the past few years.

 

Bit selective in what you've quoted there are you not.....?

 

As I say, I'd just about be willing to put money on the fact that over the course of the last couple of seasons they've picked up more bookings for diving than we have.

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Rudolf's Mate

Please forgive me here, as I live down south, but do we still do the dreaded split???

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Commander Harris

with regards to "reaping what their players have sown.":

 

why are Motherwell not "reaping what their players have sown" with cheats like David Clarkson. Why are Kilmarnock not "reaping what their players have sown" with cheats like Colin Nish?

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Lovecraft

Nakamura anyone?

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