ivanhoe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) its a good business plan. We dont have the initial capital to do it any other way. We also need solid financial people to take us through the early stages.i Use the direct debits so far for an initial cash boost, then use them for 2 years added income and then use them to pay off bidco. It sounds a huge figure but its the current 8000 debits paying 14 quid a month for 5 years. Keeping the debits going is key obviously. Bit surprised folk saying we will be overspending on those figures player wise. We will hopefully be fairly competitive but we wont be making many star signings on that level of income. Been there done that! Edited February 13, 2014 by ivanhoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Right now the cupboard is completely bare. We haven't made any youth signings in a year, have pulled almost all of our youth into a development league, will need to reestablish credit with the firms that lost money giving us credit before, and need to restock the club. Additionally, I'm sure FoH would like to be proactive and make some long-needed improvements to the ground. Further, if we want to ensure that we return to the first tier quickly, we'll likely need to operate at a small nominal loss next year. In the long run that's much better for the financial health of the club and I think we'd make that money back quickly, but we need up-front funds to do so. That kind of money used to come out of Vlad's pockets, but those days are over. We are the new Vlad -- if we want investment in the club, it comes from us. I'm not bothered by FoH pledges acting as a long-term source of funds for the club. Let's face it, all the money that operates Hearts ultimately comes from us, whether it's from our purchasing power that advertisers want to attract and hence fund TV broadcasts (well, yours really, I'm outside the target demographic) or the tickets we buy or the club gear we buy. If being a true Hearts fan involves ?10/month and that means we get to have a dynamic and ambitious and successful club, I'm in for the long haul. Excellent post. Why is this so hard for others to grasp? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Seems sensible enough to me. Pant wetting should be left to frozen.net. Ann Budge's decision to go public is a good sign, as far as I'm concerned. What's spelled out above is a business arrangement. Time for us to get serious about doing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 We will most likly still make ?4.5-?5 million a year dropping down a division. Half that and we have our wage bill. Still better than most in the top league! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes, half a million. No, cleared with the CVA. Does that include the agreement we came to with them to pay around ?500'000 a year or something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 People need to heed this taken from FoH FAQ This binding partnership between BIDCO and FANCO will deliver ultimate fan ownership over an agreed period of time. Doing so allows the club?s finances to be stabilised, and for there to be an orderly and calm transition to supporter ownership, via FoH. This Bidco statement lays out the orderly and calm transfer which include stabilisation hence the ?1.4m for the 1st two years without any payback of the initial loan to AB. Concrete foundations for Hearts from now on no more shifting sands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I cool with it. I'd rather we were as strong as possible to ensure promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mrs Budge...on my birthday? Why, thank you most kindly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well The Rangers are trying to get there wage bill down to ?5 million. Looks like ours could be ?3.5 or a little more the time you add ?1.4 million. The Rangers will not be to keen on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I have no issue funding this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Ok, let's say we had never gone into administration, but money was tight, player quality wasn't great, and we ended up getting relegated. If the club then asked the fans for an extra ?1.4M a year over and above their season ticket income, would it be forthcoming? Would the fans expect an owner to put some of his money in from time to time? Nothing different. Can't expect to own the club and decide who runs it then suddenly take the huff because your 3-6 pints a month is adding working capital to the company and club you are meant to love. Edited February 13, 2014 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil D. Corners Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mrs Budge...on my birthday? Why, thank you most kindly. Happy birthday Mr Boof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3OBE Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Good statement in my opinion, outlines the plan clearly. Things that can't be influenced but could benefit us over the coming years: - potential extra sponsors (that want to be linked to a fan owned/we'll run club) - income from player sales, no longer disappearing into a black hole Onwards and upwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It looks like we need to maintain a pretty high volume of pledges. I wonder what the base line, absolute minimum we can expect to pull in per month is, and how many folk are floaters. I don't think we'd require a gigantic number of floaters to be able to keep up with planned repayments, but it'd be useful to get ahead and stay ahead as there may be some lean times if folk get apathetic or disgruntled. This isnt a hibby style, "we're doomed anyway", post, I just think it's quite ambitious but very doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Does that include the agreement we came to with them to pay around ?500'000 a year or something like that? It includes every single debt we had outwith the footballing debts which in reality, won't exist either but will be paid to keep our membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Personally, they could spend the cash on a statue of Vladimir and Ann doing a waltz that plays "Hey Jude" and spins like a jewellery box every time we score, outside the mainstand as long as the club is in the best position it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhoe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 the other thing to remember is that we have have been living hand to mouth for 18 months. We are starting again from scratch. That initial ?2.4 million wont go on star players it will more than likely be going to Riccarton repairs, stadium work and general bills. We need stability and breathing space. I know people want to pay back bidco now but this is the smarter move. When we get to own the club let it be a stable business ready for years to come not a basket case holding auction nights for 20k as it became. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well this is all very exciting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's not knee jerk. I would like to know what we will be spending ?2.8M out of the ?3.8M on. If it is wages, then we are living beyond our means. Those who know me are aware of may views on what I believe that the FOH contribution should be used for. To me it is a premium on the price of my Season Ticket and it is something I am prepared to invest to save the club, but not for it to be used for day to day spending. Like it or not we will need to spend a significant amount to give us the tools to get out that division as quick as possible, because failure to do so will cost us more long term , we can't afford to become another Dundee , we are the 3 rd biggest club in Scotland and we can't accept mediocrity , if that sounds a bit Sevco too bad , I did lower league football 30 years ago, and I have no desire to see us play there again for one minute longer than is neccassary, and if we have the means and funds (within reason obviously ) then we must utilise them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The sooner he gets clarification the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It includes every single debt we had outwith the footballing debts which in reality, won't exist either but will be paid to keep our membership. Mr tax man will be hacked off, better keep our noses clean this time then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mr tax man will be hacked off, better keep our noses clean this time then. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 the other thing to remember is that we have have been living hand to mouth for 18 months. We are starting again from scratch. That initial ?2.4 million wont go on star players it will more than likely be going to Riccarton repairs, stadium work and general bills. We need stability and breathing space. I know people want to pay back bidco now but this is the smarter move. When we get to own the club let it be a stable business ready for years to come not a basket case holding auction nights for 20k as it became. Absolutely correct. IMO this plan shows real business sense and ambition. Great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Right now the cupboard is completely bare. We haven't made any youth signings in a year, have pulled almost all of our youth who should be in a development league into the first team, will need to reestablish credit with the firms that lost money giving us credit before, and need to restock the club. Additionally, I'm sure FoH would like to be proactive and make some long-needed improvements to the ground. Further, if we want to ensure that we return to the first tier quickly, we'll likely need to operate at a small nominal loss next year. In the long run that's much better for the financial health of the club and I think we'd make that money back quickly, but we need up-front funds to do so. That kind of money used to come out of Vlad's pockets, but those days are over. We are the new Vlad -- if we want investment in the club, it comes from us. I'm not bothered by FoH pledges acting as a long-term source of funds for the club. Let's face it, all the money that operates Hearts ultimately comes from us, whether it's from our purchasing power that advertisers want to attract and hence fund TV broadcasts (well, yours really, I'm outside the target demographic) or the tickets we buy or the club gear we buy. If being a true Hearts fan involves ?10/month and that means we get to have a dynamic and ambitious and successful club, I'm in for the long haul. Cracking post spot on. My FoH pledge is for life or for as long as we are asked to keep contributing. Would love to win lottery and punt money in to my beloved Hearts get the old stand sorted out first as it is a noose around our neck at present with the ongoing yearly costs. Edited February 13, 2014 by raythegalajambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Good statement in my opinion, outlines the plan clearly. Things that can't be influenced but could benefit us over the coming years: - potential extra sponsors (that want to be linked to a fan owned/we'll run club) - income from player sales, no longer disappearing into a black hole Onwards and upwards yeh this is what I have been wondering where would player sales, cup runs come into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Would the fans expect an owner to put some of his money in from time to time? Nothing different. Can't expect to own the club and decide who runs it then suddenly take the huff because your 3-6 pints a month is adding working capital to the company and club you are meant to love. The short answer to your question is an emphatic "No". Ask Dermot Desmond, David Murray, Charles Green, Craig Whyte, Stuart Milne, Michael Johnston, Gavin Masterton etc how much of their own money did they invest in "their" clubs, or was it just borrowed from someone else. FOH (us) won't own the club for 5 years. The 3-6 pints you refer to is a premium of 33%-67% on the current price of an ST in the main stand. I've no intention of getting into a debate about taking the "huff" or not loving the club enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I have no issue funding this. Seems to me the extra working capital is to make sure we get promoted at the first or at worst (what with Rangers) second time of asking, as well as things like repairs, paying football debts, rearranging the backroom staff and absorbing the reduction in revenue in the Championship while rebuilding an SPL level team from day one. Shows vision and a clear plan IMO, and suggests we'll be self-sustaining with a team worthy of challenging in the SPL by 2016-17 at the absolute latest. They're probably hopeful it happens before that, but if it takes any longer we're always going to be mildly messed, working capital or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The short answer to your question is an emphatic "No". Ask Dermot Desmond, David Murray, Charles Green, Craig Whyte, Stuart Milne, Michael Johnston, Gavin Masterton etc how much of their own money did they invest in "their" clubs, or was it just borrowed from someone else. FOH (us) won't own the club for 5 years. The 3-6 pints you refer to is a premium of 33%-67% on the current price of an ST in the main stand. I've no intention of getting into a debate about taking the "huff" or not loving the club enough. Every football fan expects an owner to put some cash in. Whether it's borrowed or not. I'd love you to explain how spending some of our income on wages is "living beyond our means" as well by the way. Our means is what the club brings in. That is that. I'm utterly baffled that you are raging about this. Are you going to cancel your DD as soon as the takeover is complete and the loan paid back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Anyone who thought we'd be out of administration one week then the next looking for board members (fans voted by fans) is "af thur heids", jesus we are just out of critical condition to serious but stable it stands to reason that the business people behind the take over will want to make us safe before any random get's in and fandango's it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 yeh this is what I have been wondering where would player sales, cup runs come into this? A nice bonus which let us bump up the budget a little the season after if need be. Towards the end our last owners were banking on cup runs, player sales and mid-table league finishes, and that's why we urgently had to plug the shortfall with shares. Better to follow BDO's lead and plan for nothing, no player sales, no cup run and a poor league finish. That way everything that comes in is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Anyone who thought we'd be out of administration one week then the next looking for board members (fans voted by fans) is "af thur heids", jesus we are just out of critical condition to serious but stable it stands to reason that the business people behind the take over will want to make us safe before any random get's in and fandango's it up again. Except it was business people that fandangoed the club in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 yeh this is what I have been wondering where would player sales, cup runs come into this? None of these are guaranteed income. The club needs to stabilise on guaranteed income ie pledges and ST sales rather than speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm utterly baffled that you are raging about this. Got to agree with this. It seems like the extra working capital is just there to plug a Championship shortfall and at least they're being totally upfront in telling us exactly what they need and why. I don't get the impression this is permanent, it's to bridge a funding gap over a year or two. We raised what, 2m in shares in two months or less? 800k in season tickets in a month? 1.4m over a year doesn't seem so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Except it was business people that fandangoed the club in the first place. Were Business people a term loosely used I think. AB is a business woman with a record to prove it. The others well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Every football fan expects an owner to put some cash in. Whether it's borrowed or not. I'd love you to explain how spending some of our income on wages is "living beyond our means" as well by the way. Are you going to cancel your DD as soon as the takeover is complete and the loan paid back? Paying a level of wages where we were "living beyond our means" was exactly what we did between 2005 and 2012 Yes - It was always my intention to cancel my DD as soon as the loan was paid back. Saving and purchasing the club were the only reasons for me supporting FOH. Once the loan to buy the club was paid back, if FOH came up with a proposal for raising and spending additional funds then I would look at that on it's own merits and decide whether or not to contribute. Edited February 13, 2014 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 the other thing to remember is that we have have been living hand to mouth for 18 months. We are starting again from scratch. That initial ?2.4 million wont go on star players it will more than likely be going to Riccarton repairs, stadium work and general bills. We need stability and breathing space. I know people want to pay back bidco now but this is the smarter move. When we get to own the club let it be a stable business ready for years to come not a basket case holding auction nights for 20k as it became. This is a good point. There will be plenty of near enough essential expenditure that has been put on the back burner for at least the last year - plus there is the footballing debt to be paid right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Were Business people a term loosely used I think. AB is a business woman with a record to prove it. The others well! Didn't Pieman just sell another catering business for moolah too? I think there is a difference sometimes when these guys get involved in football. I'm actually more relaxed about this scenario due to its beginning and end point plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambopara Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 However long we need to pay I'm in. No feckin way do I want our club to go thru the madness we've endured. Plus I want to GIRFUY to all the vultures and naysayers when we regain our rightful status. It might take time but I'm fine with that, and/or any other initiatives we need to support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Paying a level of wages where we were "living beyond our means" was exactly what we did between 2005 and 2012 Yes - It was always my intention to cancel my DD as soon as the loan was paid back. Saving and purchasing the club were the only reasons for me supporting FOH. Once the loan to buy the club was paid back, if FOH came up with a proposal for raising and spending additional funds then I would look at that on it's own merits and decide whether or not to contribute. Paying a level of wages where we were "living beyond our means" was exactly what we did between 2005 and 2012 Yes - It was always my intention to cancel my DD as soon as the loan was paid back. Saving and purchasing the club were the only reasons for me supporting FOH. Once the loan to buy the club was paid back, if FOH came up with a proposal for raising and spending additional funds then I would look at that on it's own merits and decide whether or not to contribute. So you are not expecting to vote on the board? P.s We won't be spending outwith our means. We'll be replacing lost income (tv money, gates, derbies etc.) with new income (DD's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Paying a level of wages where we were "living beyond our means" was exactly what we did between 2005 and 2012 Yes - It was always my intention to cancel my DD as soon as the loan was paid back. Saving and purchasing the club were the only reasons for me supporting FOH. Once the loan to buy the club was paid back, if FOH came up with a proposal for raising and spending additional funds then I would look at that on it's own merits and decide whether or not to contribute. Dangerous stuff FF. You need to get on board with the groupthink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Its not "Set In Stone " that it will be 5 Years before we Pay Back BIDCO and I find it better to err on the side of caution than the opposite, I do not think our Club could handle another season on the budget we have had this season, if the Fans had not dug so deep we are not sure to be where we are today, I feel FOH are trying to look at things without asking for extra help from the Fans(Outwith Pledges) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Dangerous stuff FF. You need to get on board with the groupthink. I've been outside groupthink for years. e.g. I didn't think it was a good idea to buy into the share scheme in late 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think it is incredible that there is someone who is willing to step up and fund this takeover. It is also incredible that the fans have stepped up in such numbers to do their part. Great credit to all concerned. However, unless there is a pressing reason why a working capital injection is required - remembering that BDO are attempting to leave the new owners with season ticket money - it is very surprising that the club will not be able to live within its means, particularly given the apparent cost of the current squad (and that several are out of contract anyway). If it is about funding for players in order to obtain an immediate return to the top league it could be construed as just another version of speculation for accumulation. Hopefully FoH will clear this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So you are not expecting to vote on the board? P.s We won't be spending outwith our means. We'll be replacing lost income (tv money, gates, derbies etc.) with new income (DD's). So we are living outwith our means then, in that money ear marked for paying off debt will not be used to pay off debt. I am not saying it is wrong, but it is not living within our means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie_Rules Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 All looks good to me. Long term, once its all paid back we could be in a very strong position, debt free and have the income from the countrys 3rd biggest fan base to spend. In theory that should equate to sustained success. Its all achievable if we keep up our commitment. Id hope that we are frequently kept up to date with regards to how much we have left to pay back to bidco. The fundraising last year was incredible and to have similar events continuing to contribute to the cause would help us get there sooner than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The short answer to your question is an emphatic "No". Ask Dermot Desmond, David Murray, Charles Green, Craig Whyte, Stuart Milne, Michael Johnston, Gavin Masterton etc how much of their own money did they invest in "their" clubs, or was it just borrowed from someone else. FOH (us) won't own the club for 5 years. The 3-6 pints you refer to is a premium of 33%-67% on the current price of an ST in the main stand. I've no intention of getting into a debate about taking the "huff" or not loving the club enough. FF. From what I understand there is so much required off the pitch to get us looking like a club that deserves the name Heart of Midlothian. Admin, scouting, coaching, maintenance etc.... and you know more than most on here that our youth development needs an overhaul from top to bottom. I don't believe it will take 6 years but they can take 10 as long as they do it right. Keep the faith FF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) http://www.foundatio...earts.org/aims/ Our Aims The principal aim of the Foundation is to acquire the majority shareholding, which will bring us Tynecastle Stadium, the Heart of Midlothian brand, and the football rights of HMFC, debt-free and liability-free, for the long-term benefit of Heart of Midlothian and its fans. Edited February 13, 2014 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 FF. From what I understand there is so much required off the pitch to get us looking like a club that deserves the name Heart of Midlothian. Admin, scouting, coaching, maintenance etc.... and you know more than most on here that our youth development needs an overhaul from top to bottom. I don't believe it will take 6 years but they can take 10 as long as they do it right. Keep the faith FF. That could well be the case and it may be the correct thing to do. It is a change of plan though, that cannot be denied, even if it is a positive change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo On Fire Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 In the "Queen of Hearts" we trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So we now have someone who comes on board to save the club. Someone with an excellent business record who will become chief executive so has even more of a hands on role Someone who has realised if we are relegated then we will need working capital/income to survive and prosper in an attempt to come back up and has allowed 2 years at least for this to happen. Someone who is deferring repayment of a loan to aid the clubs recovery. Someone who is being upfront, honest and engaging with the fans as much as they can at present. Someone who if fans keep their side of the deal will be legally bound to hand over control to FOH when the loan is repaid...........(and did anyone really think Bidco would not control the club until debt had been repaid) To me seems a fair enough deal (of course some will want a diff order of events such as purchase first but you cannot run the club without capital and we will need that in the early years to stabilise then get us promoted.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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