Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

I wish politicians would throw the shackles off and actually say what they meant for a change. Maybe more people would give a **** instead of the refusing to answer any questions at all, ever.

 

As for the smearing Salmond has been compared with everyone from Hitler to Mugabe to Pol Pot from MP's to the media etc so the smears are equal IMO.

 

My whole point is in a issue of this magnitude and emotional charge that I could care a rats arse what these eejits are calling each other. These people will be gone and forgotten and we will have a decision to live with one way or another and I'm going to care about some arsehole claiming he was called a quisling once over in the internet or that somebody's mum cried? Geez peace.

Cool. I would just say that allowing extremism and unparliamentary language to be aired does no one any good (see Norn Iron).

[reaths17]

 

I wish politicians would throw the shackles off and actually say what they meant for a change. Maybe more people would give a **** instead of the refusing to answer any questions at all, ever.

 

As for the smearing Salmond has been compared with everyone from Hitler to Mugabe to Pol Pot from MP's to the media etc so the smears are equal IMO.

 

My whole point is in a issue of this magnitude and emotional charge that I could care a rats arse what these eejits are calling each other. These people will be gone and forgotten and we will have a decision to live with one way or another and I'm going to care about some arsehole claiming he was called a quisling once over in the internet or that somebody's mum cried? Geez peace.

 

so which side of the mudslingers you dont like, are you voting for?

Edited June 11, 2014 by reaths17

[reaths17]

"The more I listen to the 'Yes' campaign, the more I worry about its minimisation and even denial of risks. Whenever the big issues are raised - our heavy reliance on oil revenue if we become independent, what currency we'll use, whether we'll get back into the EU - reasonable questions are drowned out by accusations of 'scaremongering'".

 

by JK.Rowling, who has just donated 1mil to BT.

[Steve_Jersey_HMFC]

"The more I listen to the 'Yes' campaign, the more I worry about its minimisation and even denial of risks. Whenever the big issues are raised - our heavy reliance on oil revenue if we become independent, what currency we'll use, whether we'll get back into the EU - reasonable questions are drowned out by accusations of 'scaremongering'".

 

by JK.Rowling, who has just donated 1mil to BT.

 

[flecktimus]

"The more I listen to the 'Yes' campaign, the more I worry about its minimisation and even denial of risks. Whenever the big issues are raised - our heavy reliance on oil revenue if we become independent, what currency we'll use, whether we'll get back into the EU - reasonable questions are drowned out by accusations of 'scaremongering'".

 

by JK.Rowling, who has just donated 1mil to BT.

 

Whilst JK Rowling is entitled to give her money to what she believes in and good on her for explaining her reasons, i look forward to the media treating her in the same way as the Weirs.

[Boris]

Isn't the argument that it's not to people's detriment though. Improved service money redirected to them who need it most?

 

Though I'm assuming if they increase basic rate also effect upper bands by same ie. all levels just go up by 3p.

 

No, as far as I am aware it would just be the basic rate that would rise (or lower). All the other bandings would remain set by The Treasury.

 

I agree that the money raised goes to provide services and therefore benefits everyone, but by increasing the basic rate, those on lower incomes would be worse off than those on higher incomes, if you see what I mean.

[Rudolf]

I wish politicians would throw the shackles off and actually say what they meant for a change. Maybe more people would give a **** instead of the refusing to answer any questions at all, ever.

 

As for the smearing Salmond has been compared with everyone from Hitler to Mugabe to Pol Pot from MP's to the media etc so the smears are equal IMO.

 

My whole point is in a issue of this magnitude and emotional charge that I could care a rats arse what these eejits are calling each other. These people will be gone and forgotten and we will have a decision to live with one way or another and I'm going to care about some arsehole claiming he was called a quisling once over in the internet or that somebody's mum cried? Geez peace.

 

Salmond runs crying to the press everytime someone makes a comment about him he doesn't like.

 

He's not so quick to tell us how much independence is going to cost, what currency we will be using, who will be our bank of the last resort etc etc etc.

 

He can't answer these questions and continues to try to deflect.

 

It's 33% of the population trying to impose its will on the remainder and relying purely on emotion.

 

Sooner this is over the better.

[reaths17]

 

 

 

Whilst JK Rowling is entitled to give her money to what she believes in and good on her for explaining her reasons, i look forward to the media treating her in the same way as the Weirs.

 

the scottish media are as we know susceptable to succulence so we will have to wait and see how good JK's lamb is.

[deesidejambo]

"The more I listen to the 'Yes' campaign, the more I worry about its minimisation and even denial of risks. Whenever the big issues are raised - our heavy reliance on oil revenue if we become independent, what currency we'll use, whether we'll get back into the EU - reasonable questions are drowned out by accusations of 'scaremongering'".

 

by JK.Rowling, who has just donated 1mil to BT.

 

Her books may be gash but she makes the point that will be the downfall of the Yes Campaign.

 

I want to know what Plan B is for currency.

 

I want to know what will happen to the Govan Shipyards once the MoD order moves to Portsmouth, as it will.

 

I want to know what is the plan for re-entry to the EU. How long will it take to get re-accepted, if at all? Will there need to be another referendum post-Independence on whether we re-apply, and if so, how long will that take?

 

None if the above is "scaremongering". Its legitimate questions that the Yes Campaign need to answer, and just fobbing-them off as "scaremongering" is an amateur attempt to avoid answering, something which the Yes Campaign should be ashamed of.

[flecktimus]

the scottish media are as we know susceptable to succulence so we will have to wait and see how good JK's lamb is.

 

[Smack]

Seriously Rowling? The most historic event in the last few centuries and Harry Potter wants a say? Gtf.

 

This is really what it's going to come down to. I shouldn't be surprised...yet...

[reaths17]

 

 

 

Her books may be gash but she makes the point that will be the downfall of the Yes Campaign.

 

I want to know what Plan B is for currency.

 

I want to know what will happen to the Govan Shipyards once the MoD order moves to Portsmouth, as it will.

 

I want to know what is the plan for re-entry to the EU. How long will it take to get re-accepted, if at all? Will there need to be another referendum post-Independence on whether we re-apply, and if so, how long will that take?

 

None if the above is "scaremongering". Its legitimate questions that the Yes Campaign need to answer, and just fobbing-them off as "scaremongering" is an amateur attempt to avoid answering, something which the Yes Campaign should be ashamed of.

 

unfortunately for everyone in scotland, alex looks like he got caught with his pants doon when they said "ok you can have your vote", from the beginning the seperatistist have come across as if they'd never considered what the consequences would or even could be and that getting the vote would actually throw up problems.

 

the campaign has done nothing to make you proud of being scottish, it's quite embarrasing how amatuerish the whole thing from both sides has been. SPL, SFA, SNP, BT it's like looking at the same organisation.

[reaths17]

 

Seriously Rowling? The most historic event in the last few centuries and Harry Potter wants a say? Gtf.

 

This is really what it's going to come down to. I shouldn't be surprised...yet...

 

She also said there was a "fringe of nationalists who like to demonise anyone who is not blindly and unquestionably pro-independence".

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Seriously Rowling? The most historic event in the last few centuries and Harry Potter wants a say? Gtf.

 

This is really what it's going to come down to. I shouldn't be surprised...yet...

 

Fair enough, you let us know who's entitled to an opinion and we'll go from there.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

And here is the head of the 'No Thanks' campaign likening Scottish Nationalists to Nazis and the Leader of the SNP to Kim Jong-il

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-27793285

 

Only through tinted glasses does he compare the Nats to Nazis. Seriously...

[IMA MAROON]

And here is the head of the 'No Thanks' campaign likening Scottish Nationalists to Nazis and the Leader of the SNP to Kim Jong-il

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-27793285

 

Humza Yousaf

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Her books may be gash but she makes the point that will be the downfall of the Yes Campaign.

 

I want to know what Plan B is for currency.

 

I want to know what will happen to the Govan Shipyards once the MoD order moves to Portsmouth, as it will.

 

I want to know what is the plan for re-entry to the EU. How long will it take to get re-accepted, if at all? Will there need to be another referendum post-Independence on whether we re-apply, and if so, how long will that take?

 

None if the above is "scaremongering". Its legitimate questions that the Yes Campaign need to answer, and just fobbing-them off as "scaremongering" is an amateur attempt to avoid answering, something which the Yes Campaign should be ashamed of.

 

[modedit]

 

[reaths17]

 

 

 

What else does he mean then? The explanation afterwards is pretty clear too.

 

think it means we can execute the singer from sparks in hitlers place because his moustache was similar.

[jack D and coke]

 

You will be waiting a long time for proper answers to any of your questions. Perhaps the NATS on here will offer up some fantasy though.

Well the order won't move to Portsmouth because BAE systems have already said they only have the plans and capabilities to build them on the Clyde. I've noticed this though that everybody up here is happy to see the Portsmouth workers horsed out on their arse as long as the Clyde workers are kept on hmm not a very British spirit that old chaps and the Portsmouth workers are furious at what they see are their jobs being sacrificed for Scottish votes. As I've said plenty on here perspective is a funny thing. The EU thing is fairly straightforward I think, we'll get in. Are you suggesting people who have been in it for 40 years, who have contributed and meet all the requirements for EU membership and who might be living and working abroad will automatically lose all their rights as an EU citizen overnight? Really? The currency one is defintely the SNP's biggest faux pax IMO but to say there is no plan B is nonsense. If you don't know then your kidding yourself on.

 

As I said on an earlier post too, I believe anyway, that they are frightened to say anything because in politics now everything is pounced upon and makes activists mums cry so you have to be careful what you say. I actually wonder how Britain managed to get through the war we're so touchy. Just as well the Germans weren't tweeting us all the time we'd have got gubbed with them swearing at us calling us bad names and our mums would've been upset and running to the papers.

[Smack]

 

 

 

Fair enough, you let us know who's entitled to an opinion and we'll go from there.

 

She can say what she likes. If her opinion is a media event then it's worth a mention.

 

Everyone resident in Scotland is entitled to a view for the sake of clarity.

[flecktimus]

Her books may be gash but she makes the point that will be the downfall of the Yes Campaign.

 

I want to know what Plan B is for currency.

 

All the proposals are in the Scotland's Future publication http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/0

 

I want to know what will happen to the Govan Shipyards once the MoD order moves to Portsmouth, as it will.

 

Proposed to close http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-26065760

 

I want to know what is the plan for re-entry to the EU. How long will it take to get re-accepted, if at all? Will there need to be another referendum post-Independence on whether we re-apply, and if so, how long will that take?

 

You need to ask the UK Government as the Scottish Government are not allowed access to the EU

 

None if the above is "scaremongering". Its legitimate questions that the Yes Campaign need to answer, and just fobbing-them off as "scaremongering" is an amateur attempt to avoid answering, something which the Yes Campaign should be ashamed of.

 

There you go all questions answered

[TheMaganator]

http://mobile.jkrowling.com/en_GB/news-events/latest#better-together-campaign

 

Here's her full statement.

 

 

[deesidejambo]

Well the order won't move to Portsmouth because BAE systems have already said they only have the plans and capabilities to build them on the Clyde. I've noticed this though that everybody up here is happy to see the Portsmouth workers horsed out on their arse as long as the Clyde workers are kept on hmm not a very British spirit that old chaps and the Portsmouth workers are furious at what they see are their jobs being sacrificed for Scottish votes. As I've said plenty on here perspective is a funny thing. The EU thing is fairly straightforward I think, we'll get in. Are you suggesting people who have been in it for 40 years, who have contributed and meet all the requirements for EU membership and who might be living and working abroad will automatically lose all their rights as an EU citizen overnight? Really? The currency one is defintely the SNP's biggest faux pax IMO but to say there is no plan B is nonsense. If you don't know then your kidding yourself on.

 

As I said on an earlier post too, I believe anyway, that they are frightened to say anything because in politics now everything is pounced upon and makes activists mums cry so you have to be careful what you say. I actually wonder how Britain managed to get through the war we're so touchy. Just as well the Germans weren't tweeting us all the time we'd have got gubbed with them swearing at us calling us bad names and our mums would've been upset and running to the papers.

 

Portsmouth - your wrong. it is stated MoD policy that all warships will be built in the UK. There is a final decision date that falls after September and Portsmouth is easily capable of taking over the work. It will happen.

 

As for Europe - you "think we'll get in". Sorry thats not sufficient. We will have to reapply, and prior to that Scotland will have to decide on whether or not to re-apply, either by referendum or voting in a party in the new Scottish Gov't with a manifesto that we would reapply. Then once all that is done the EU would need to accept, and for them to accept, Scotland will need to sacrifice something to be allowed entry. First on the list will be fishing rights, something which the Spanish in particular are after. Furthermore, the Spanish do not want a precedent set whereby breakaway Countries can re-join the EU. In their case its the Basques. For that reason they have already said they will not support Scottish re-entry.

 

An for currency you suggest I am kidding, so please enlighten me, as I appear to be stupid - what, specifically, is Plan B?

[The Comedian]

Let's hold of on Independence for the shipyards which have been dying on their arse for decades.

 

[djf]

Rowling's point is pretty reasonable and well put across but I really can't agree with her sentiments on rabid Scottish nationalists. Whilst they do exist it's pretty lazy to point an accusation that they won't value her opinion as a non-Scot at a group who is by a vast majority in favour and actively support a referendum built on civic-nationalism.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Loved this comment on the Grauniad about Rowling

 

Alex Salmond will insist that Westminsiter will continue to share the Ministry of Magic, and then reveal independent analysis that an Independent Scotland will be 33% safer from Death Eater attacks.

[JKBMod 1]

Today's debate is starting to get a bit tasty. If anyone here wants to test our resolve to keep this debate within JKB rules just try, and join the nearly 3 dozen people banned or blocked from the thread.

 

"Cybernats": Be very careful about how you use that word, and expect a ban if you use it about a JKB member. In fact we'd rather you didn't use it at all.

 

"Quislings": In a very nasty example of just how low members can stoop in this debate, the term "Quislings" was used to describe some people who are opposed to independence. That was wrong, and it won't happen again. But equally members should not drag it up and use it again in the debate.

 

Please kindly keep the debate civil and on topic, or we will come down on you like a ton of bricks.

 

And if you have any questions or comments about this post, address them to me by PM only.

[TheMaganator]

http://www.buzzfeed....adly-to-jk-rowl

 

 

 

18 Scottish Nationalists Who Reacted Really Badly To JK Rowling Opposing Independence

 

 

Edited June 11, 2014 by TheMaganator

[Radio Ga Ga]

If this is a cross section of Nationalists folowing The ?1M donotion, god help Scotland - http://www.buzzfeed....adly-to-jk-rowl It is a democracy we live in FFS

 

Half the posts are from Celtic supporters and we know what most of them they think of the United Kingdom (apart from when begiing to get in the Englsif Premiership)

 

Beat me to it Maganator

Edited June 11, 2014 by Radio Ga Ga

[TheMaganator]

 

 

Wow!!!! Though let's be honest Internet brings worst out in people. The belief hiding behind screen and exaggerated your worst personality traits.

 

Sure you could find similar from other side.

 

Though did remind me of rangers/celtics taking about creating lists off people who are against them. The Internet is a huge embarrassment to the human race in so many ways.

 

I read her piece I thought it expressed her feeling pretty well and I can relate to the number of issues she brings up. That said I don't really give a toss what she thinks. Not sure why supporters of either side would. Not like Harry potter going to cast a spell and make it happen.

I thought she wrote a good piece.

 

I agree that it probably won't make a difference but the ?1m will. I suspect that's at the root of the seethe.

[TheMaganator]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27795389

 

Salmond ordered his smearing agent to apologise.

[dobmisterdobster]

Her books may be gash but she makes the point that will be the downfall of the Yes Campaign.

 

I want to know what Plan B is for currency.

 

I want to know what will happen to the Govan Shipyards once the MoD order moves to Portsmouth, as it will.

 

I want to know what is the plan for re-entry to the EU. How long will it take to get re-accepted, if at all? Will there need to be another referendum post-Independence on whether we re-apply, and if so, how long will that take?

 

None if the above is "scaremongering". Its legitimate questions that the Yes Campaign need to answer, and just fobbing-them off as "scaremongering" is an amateur attempt to avoid answering, something which the Yes Campaign should be ashamed of.

[modedit]

Let's hold of on Independence for the shipyards which have been dying on their arse for decades.

 

 

1979: Vote No to save 32,000 shipbuilding jobs.

2014: Vote No to save 3,000 shipbuilding jobs

 

 

Where did the other 29,000 jobs go? I doubt I will get an answer.

 

[reaths17]

 

 

 

 

 

1979: Vote No to save 32,000 shipbuilding jobs.

2014: Vote No to save 3,000 shipbuilding jobs

 

 

Where did the other 29,000 jobs go? I doubt I will get an answer.

 

the answer is easy, we went from a manufacturing based kingdom to an administration based work force thanks to the rise of computers, the internet and our old friend dear maggie, no rocket science.

this was not a scottish thing that nats can hijack, this was a UK thing, thanks to maggie.

[deesidejambo]

1979: Vote No to save 32,000 shipbuilding jobs.

2014: Vote No to save 3,000 shipbuilding jobs

 

 

Where did the other 29,000 jobs go? I doubt I will get an answer.

 

The missing jobs are due to redundancises brought on by t e inevitible decline of the shipbuilding industry. These were mitigated by the UK Gov't locating alternative industries to areas like Greenock, for example IBM (or maybe it was HP) Thats an example of Gov't-controlled changing from one industry to another to manage the downturn. Similarly firms like Toyota moving to Sunderland and other examples - these are brought about by UK Gov't leverage and subsidy.

 

In the case if Independence, that leverage, and the ability to subsidise, will be gone- rUK will win all battles to locate new industries simply by their ability to do bilateral agreements with other countries (e.g. China et al) and also provide subsidies that the Scottish Gov't won't be able to do.

 

So the jobs will go, the yard will close, the industry will cease, forever, and there will be no IBM this time to offset.

[Rudolf]

1979: Vote No to save 32,000 shipbuilding jobs.

2014: Vote No to save 3,000 shipbuilding jobs

 

 

Where did the other 29,000 jobs go? I doubt I will get an answer.

 

You got your answer. Now what about you answering his other questions regarding currency & EU Membership?

Edited June 11, 2014 by Rudolf

[NRJ1966]

In the case if Independence, that leverage, and the ability to subsidise, will be gone- rUK will win all battles to locate new industries simply by their ability to do bilateral agreements with other countries (e.g. China et al) and also provide subsidies that the Scottish Gov't won't be able to do.

 

What like Ireland wasn't able to??

Aside from their later over expansion and financial mismanagement before "the great crash" the Irish Republic or the Celtic Tiger as it was known, was one of the most successful attractors of foreign investment and business in Europe. Didn't see the UK competing much then?

[dobmisterdobster]

the answer is easy, we went from a manufacturing based kingdom to an administration based work force thanks to the rise of computers, the internet and our old friend dear maggie, no rocket science.

this was not a scottish thing that nats can hijack, this was a UK thing, thanks to maggie.

 

The Unionists are the ones hijacking it. Making it a talking point in the referendum when it's a dead industry largely because of Westminster in the first place.

Edited June 11, 2014 by dobmisterdobster

[flecktimus]

Interesting Article on Scotland's potential Oil & Gas reserves on the Atlantic Margin

 

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/11/the-real-state-of-scotlands-oil-and-gas-reserves/

[curriehearts]

the answer is easy, we went from a manufacturing based kingdom to an administration based work force thanks to the rise of computers, the internet and our old friend dear maggie, no rocket science.

this was not a scottish thing that nats can hijack, this was a UK thing, thanks to maggie.

 

Ssshhh....don't tell this to George Osborne. He wants manufacturing to pick this back up to rebalance the economy....

 

And don't tell him he will struggle as the economy is set up to suit the service industry of London and the South East

[jack D and coke]

Interesting Article on Scotland's potential Oil & Gas reserves on the Atlantic Margin

 

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/11/the-real-state-of-scotlands-oil-and-gas-reserves/

I think most scots would rather pool and share this huge resource and spread the risk of this incredibly volatile and diminishing resource. After all they have subsidised us for 300 years, it's only fair.

[curriehearts]

 

 

So the jobs will go, the yard will close, the industry will cease, forever, and there will be no IBM this time to offset.

 

Wow - you are a very pessimistic person. Is that a 'No' official line, or have you ignored all the recent inward investment figures that says Scotland is the most attractive place in the UK outside of London.

[ToadKiller Dog]

People getting worked up about JK Rowling , she is a good friend of Gordon Brown and his wife , gives money to the Labour Party .

No shock she would support No .

 

Scottish Labour need to be careful with their staunch no stance standing side by side with the Tory party , UKIP and the Lib dems .

There lack of accepting or giving the yes supporters in the Labour movement some place might come back to haunt them .

 

http://m.scotsman.com/news/john-connell-the-yes-movement-within-labour-1-3439537

 

[Gizmo]

The missing jobs are due to redundancises brought on by t e inevitible decline of the shipbuilding industry. These were mitigated by the UK Gov't locating alternative industries to areas like Greenock, for example IBM (or maybe it was HP) Thats an example of Gov't-controlled changing from one industry to another to manage the downturn. Similarly firms like Toyota moving to Sunderland and other examples - these are brought about by UK Gov't leverage and subsidy.

 

In the case if Independence, that leverage, and the ability to subsidise, will be gone- rUK will win all battles to locate new industries simply by their ability to do bilateral agreements with other countries (e.g. China et al) and also provide subsidies that the Scottish Gov't won't be able to do.

 

So the jobs will go, the yard will close, the industry will cease, forever, and there will be no IBM this time to offset.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-dockyards-to-carry-on-building-warships-even-if-there-is-a-yes-vote-for-independence-9223811.html

[JamboX2]

 

 

I couldn't give a flying **** if it came from Salmonds own personal PC tbh no offence. The cry baby tactic of unionists is really starting to boil my water, what a bunch of big girls blouses they look honestly. How touchy are these people who put themselves in the public eye? Look at the stick ann budge got from our own supporters after day one in the job? Have you never had a bad argument with your mrs and said stuff you didn't really mean? I've had punch ups with my best pals but after it I'm cuddling them saying sorry. FFS people get emotional over things that matter and it's words at the end of the day. This is what's deeply wrong with politics these days you can't open your mouth and day anything without them using it to deflect from the real issues and use it as a stick to beat thousands of people with. They are the real disgrace here. Oh and it made her mother cry?

 

What's your point? Mock outrage?

 

What does her child have to do with this as well. I've seen this mentioned a lot. But what's the point in mentioning her child as you did a post above.

 

You do also realise if this did start from a tax paid party officer it's not exactly a good thing to have government officials do these types of things. In fact it's sick. I've yet to see proof of this. But to flippantly reject it is absolutely nonsensical. If it's true it's come form one of the first ministers officials he or she should be sacked as frankly it's unacceptable conduct from such a person. IMO of course. I'd expect that if it was a Cameron adviser or an adviser to Lamont or Rennie or Davidson too before I get branded a hypocrite.

 

What's really hypocritical is that the folk who are ranting and raving about this are the folk on both sides who'd happily do so if the boot was on the other foot.

 

It's pish like this which infuriates me about this whole debate. The future of this nation is better being decided by tossing a coin.

[JamboX2]

 

 

 

What like Ireland wasn't able to??

Aside from their later over expansion and financial mismanagement before "the great crash" the Irish Republic or the Celtic Tiger as it was known, was one of the most successful attractors of foreign investment and business in Europe. Didn't see the UK competing much then?

 

In a fatally unstable manner. Cutting business taxation back in a race to the bottom and making dodgy deals with developers fuelled the Irish tiger. Not a model I want to see emulated.

[Ulysses]

 

 

In a fatally unstable manner. Cutting business taxation back in a race to the bottom and making dodgy deals with developers fuelled the Irish tiger. Not a model I want to see emulated.

 

This is inaccurate. Ireland's relatively low corporation tax levels didn't contribute to the crash.

 

However, Ireland was only able to use the corporation tax strategy it did because the country's pre-existing corporation tax base was so low. Unless Scotland has a negligible CT base it won't be able to deploy the same policies successfully.

[reaths17]

 

 

 

The Unionists are the ones hijacking it. Making it a talking point in the referendum when it's a dead industry largely because of Westminster in the first place.

 

eh?

 

you say that manufacturing in scotland was decimated by the dreaded london as if this happened only to scotland. it was a way the democratically elected government of the time felt the UNITED KINGDOM should go, more in england lost jobs because of this than in scotland, and yet unionists are the ones using it, o'rielly.

 

PS i'm not a unionist

[reaths17]

 

 

 

Ssshhh....don't tell this to George Osborne. He wants manufacturing to pick this back up to rebalance the economy....

 

And don't tell him he will struggle as the economy is set up to suit the service industry of London and the South East

 

yip, thats how i see politics. one step forward and one step back, after 20 years of the party's playing musical chair tit fur tat, nowts changed, the poors still poor and the rich are still rich.

[JamboX2]

 

 

 

This is inaccurate. Ireland's relatively low corporation tax levels didn't contribute to the crash.

 

However, Ireland was only able to use the corporation tax strategy it did because the country's pre-existing corporation tax base was so low. Unless Scotland has a negligible CT base it won't be able to deploy the same policies successfully.

 

My mistake. And you're an expert on such things haha.

 

I have a general distrust and dislike of low business taxation as a means to quick growth.

[JamboX2]

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. You even see it on this thread. I don't know if it's maybe the length time debate has been going but is sad that this what it's become.

 

This should be about something so fundamental and different but people are arguing about nonsense and holding it up as a reason to vote one way or other. It's bizarre.

 

All this arguing has me coming to the belief that what should be a huge decision ain't all that important.

 

It's been going on for 30 odd years if you really think about it. No wonder it's dropped to the depths that it has.