sarissa Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Things like this will make me vote Yes... http://www.mirror.co...-handed-3123469 The total of English NHS services being privatised is much, much more http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/05/a-definitive-list-of-166bn-worth-of-nhs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dear oh dear. I see Obama says Nope is all over the TV/Radio news but silence on here. Where are they all me wonders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What are you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So when Labour won their landslide in 1997 did you think those who didn't vote Labour had to reconsider their position? Well the Tories moved towards Blair like policies and were converted to the minimum wage and the independence of the Bank of England if my memory serves me well. When Labour lost in 2010 obviously those who had previously voted Labour reconsidered their position!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What are you on about? News stories that Obama respects right of Scots to decide but wants a united UK, special partnership etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well the Tories moved towards Blair like policies and were converted to the minimum wage and the independence of the Bank of England if my memory serves me well. When Labour lost in 2010 obviously those who had previously voted Labour reconsidered their position!! Yeah, but they don't have to reconsider their position. If there's a No votes, people can still feel that Scotland would be better off independent; likewise, if there's a Yes vote, people can still feel that Scotland would be better off in the Union. So your post above (#14554) is a load of rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 News stories that Obama respects right of Scots to decide but wants a united UK, special partnership etc. Aye I knew that; I didn't know how he was applying that to that particular post of mine in reply to a couple of his. Anyway, what Obama said is as unsurprising and to be expected as Hearts beating Hibs. He doesn't want one of America's closest allies splitting up. He was sincere and honest in his answer. That's all there is to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 My point is valid, I think. As the SNP are the "number one" party at Holyrood and in polls for Holyrood, then I'd say that the SNP has a lot to offer current and aspiring politicians. Also, if No wins, then that doesn't mean that independence is off the table forever. If at once you don't succeed etc etc etc You are entitled to your position. There will be a political earthquake in Scotland regardless of the result of the referendum. My view is what ever the constitutional position is it must be embraced and it mus be all ahead full throttle at Holyrood. If YES wins that means the Unioinists parties have to embrace Independence and stop moaning and get on with it. That may mean new allegiances.for individuals and groups. If No wins then separatist parties have to get on with Devolution and stop moaning and that may mean new allegiances for individuals and groups. In politics nothing is forever but IMO the electorate wont tolerate their decision being usurped by any parties status quo. The SNP may rebrand themselves but Independence will be off the agenda for a long long time or forever. Similarly if we vote YEs then reunification will be off the agenda for a long long time or forever. Someone once said that a successful politician is someone with common views but uncommon abilities. Current and aspiring politicians will have choices to make to abide my another principle. Politics is the art of the possible so dont back lost causes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The total of English NHS services being privatised is much, much more http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/05/a-definitive-list-of-166bn-worth-of-nhs.html So why are we told the NHS is one of things under threat if we vote for Independence? The entire thing is being privatised in England and Wales with barely a word of protest! The thing is I'd bet labour wouldn't change a single thing if they fluked their way into power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarissa Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 [modedit] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If it is a no vote in September,how long do we think we should wait before another referendum can be allowed. 10, 20, 30 years or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 They've done well nationally of late but have lost by election after by election as well. So where is it going wrong? Local candidates they offer or their local councillors may be the reason there. Don't think they've won a by election council or MSP since Donside. This is largely because of the 6,000 or so postal voters that follow Labour around. They don't show up on polls hence the surprise when labour wins and they don't affect General Elections since they can't be everywhere at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 This is largely because of the 6,000 or so postal voters that follow Labour around. They don't show up on polls hence the surprise when labour wins and they don't affect General Elections since they can't be everywhere at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If it is a no vote in September,how long do we think we should wait before another referendum can be allowed.10, 20, 30 years or what? Personally I hope there's not another one in my lifetime tbh but I possibly it'll depend on two things. Firstly how close the result is and secondly the next few years. I mean if Scotland starts to take a pounding then I reckon there will be a backlash and people might end up demanding another referendum much sooner. If the SNP where to win by huge majority's then I don't see who could stop them offering another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Seems Cameron wants to insist it's a matter for the Scottish people yet calls on all other leaders to stick their oar in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Seems Cameron wants to insist it's a matter for the Scottish people yet calls on all other leaders to stick their oar in. Doubt we've seen the last of this kind of nonsense either. And as gestures of support go, it was fairly lukewarm, was it not? "We've got a special partnership with the UK, but, erm, it's up to the folks in Scotland to decide". If I were Cameron, I'd be a bit gutted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 BOYCOTT THE USA!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 BOYCOTT THE USA!!!!!!!! Well your going to boycott Scotland if the people decide they want independence so what you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well your going to boycott Scotland if the people decide they want independence so what you on about? No I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No I'm not. You've said it and so have a couple of my mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 BOYCOTT THE USA!!!!!!!! Yeah, the cheek they had leaving the Empire in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 You've said it and so have a couple of my mates. I've said I'd consider leaving until things settle down a bit. That's not boycotting something. That's taking a decision about how best to pe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 You've said it and so have a couple of my mates. I've said I'd consider leaving until things settle down a bit. That's not boycotting something. That's taking a decision about how best to progress my life based on the circumstances I find myself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, the cheek they had leaving the Empire in the first place! At last we agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Doubt we've seen the last of this kind of nonsense either. And as gestures of support go, it was fairly lukewarm, was it not? "We've got a special partnership with the UK, but, erm, it's up to the folks in Scotland to decide". If I were Cameron, I'd be a bit gutted. It was as good as could be hoped for IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Personally I hope there's not another one in my lifetime tbh but I possibly it'll depend on two things. Firstly how close the result is and secondly the next few years. I mean if Scotland starts to take a pounding then I reckon there will be a backlash and people might end up demanding another referendum much sooner. If the SNP where to win by huge majority's then I don't see who could stop them offering another one. What if it is something like 60/40 to NO. Then in the general election a Tory/UKIP coalition comes to power in the UK. Then proceeds to hammer Scotland in the same way that Thatchers Tories did post 1979. It seems to me like Scots have to take this chance of Independence or suffer the consequences . Perhaps the YES campaign should be promoting the nightmare scenario of Tory/UKIP government to encourage a YES vote. Edited June 5, 2014 by luckydug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I've said I'd consider leaving until things settle down a bit. That's not boycotting something. That's taking a decision about how best to progress my life based on the circumstances I find myself in. So what was the big BOYCOTT THE USA nonsense? Trying to make the nats out to be nutters and weirdos again? Nobody mentioned anything about boycotts I simply posted that number 10 had asked for another intervention. This is the man who won't debate anybody up here and says it's for us to decide yet keeps getting world leaders involved to talk us out of it. Is he going to make his mind up or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What if it is something like 60/40 to NO. Then in the general election a Tory/UKIP coalition comes to power in the UK. Then proceeds to hammer Scotland in the same way that Thatchers Tories did post 1979. It seems to me like Scots have to take this chance of Independence or suffer the consequences . Perhaps the SNP should be promoting the nightmare scenario of Tory/UKIP government to encourage a YES vote. Yeah that's what i mean and it's possible we will get what we deserve here. I could be wrong of course but i believe a lot of No voters will look back in 5-10 years and regret the decision they took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What Obama really meant: "I don't give a shit as long as my bases and missiles aren't touched". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So what was the big BOYCOTT THE USA nonsense? Trying to make the nats out to be nutters and weirdos again? Nobody mentioned anything about boycotts I simply posted that number 10 had asked for another intervention. This is the man who won't debate anybody up here and says it's for us to decide yet keeps getting world leaders involved to talk us out of it. Is he going to make his mind up or what? Lighten up JD. I'm taking the piss out of past organised boycotts of companies that have come out in favour of the Union. It wasn't directed at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What if it is something like 60/40 to NO. Then in the general election a Tory/UKIP coalition comes to power in the UK. Then proceeds to hammer Scotland in the same way that Thatchers Tories did post 1979. It seems to me like Scots have to take this chance of Independence or suffer the consequences . Perhaps the YES campaign should be promoting the nightmare scenario of Tory/UKIP government to encourage a YES vote. Scaremongering post IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Lighten up JD. I'm taking the piss out of past organised boycotts of companies that have come out in favour of the Union. It wasn't directed at you. I know it wasn't directly aimed at me but this is kind of shit you have to bat away every other day if you believe in a Yes vote. I don't make out that you are weird or anybody intending to vote No is weird or that you are a bit mental for wishing to remain in the union yet listen to Darling yesterday it is pretty outrageous claims. He can deny it all he likes but he compared AS to Kim Jong and basically called the SNP nazis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I know it wasn't directly aimed at me but this is kind of shit you have to bat away every other day if you believe in a Yes vote. I don't make out that you are weird or anybody intending to vote No is weird or that you are a bit mental for wishing to remain in the union yet listen to Darling yesterday it is pretty outrageous claims. He can deny it all he likes but he compared AS to Kim Jong and basically called the SNP nazis. No. He didn't. He made a joke about Salmond's comments about UKIP being beamed into our homes being the sort of thing Kim would come out with. He didn't call the SNP Nazis. If you're referring to the 'blood & soil' comment then the Newstatesman admitted that was their wording, not Darling's. Oh - where was the outrage when this happened btw? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9062404/Alex-Salmond-compares-BBC-boss-with-Nazi-official.html The SNP are increasingly offended by everything & ashamed of nothing IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah that's what i mean and it's possible we will get what we deserve here. I could be wrong of course but i believe a lot of No voters will look back in 5-10 years and regret the decision they took. The similarities with 1979 are very clear. Only this time we have the protection of our own devolved parliament. Which would have protected Scotland to a degree back then but we failed to get the target vote that the Government had decided on. What bothers me is the prospect of a UKIP drunk on power in coalition with the Tories . Whats to stop them trying to scrap the Scottish parliament after they have succeeded in getting the UK out of Europe ? Edited June 5, 2014 by luckydug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No. He didn't. He made a joke about Salmond's comments about UKIP being beamed into our homes being the sort of thing Kim would come out with. He didn't call the SNP Nazis. If you're referring to the 'blood & soil' comment then the Newstatesman admitted that was their wording, not Darling's. Oh - where was the outrage when this happened btw? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9062404/Alex-Salmond-compares-BBC-boss-with-Nazi-official.html The SNP are increasingly offended by everything & ashamed of nothing IMO Yeah the inaudible mumble incident, luckily for Darling. Are you suggesting we'd know much about UKIP was it not for our English run media prattling on about them all the time? They are only getting airtime and even picking up some support here due to the amount of time they get down south that is beamed into our lives they are irrelevant up here we don't have the English immigration problems yet if you listen to some people up here they talk like we're being overrun by foreigners. Again a couple of my mates constantly trot this pish out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah the inaudible mumble incident, luckily for Darling. Are you suggesting we'd know much about UKIP was it not for our English run media prattling on about them all the time? They are only getting airtime and even picking up some support here due to the amount of time they get down south that is beamed into our lives they are irrelevant up here we don't have the English immigration problems yet if you listen to some people up here they talk like we're being overrun by foreigners. Again a couple of my mates constantly trot this pish out. They are not irrelevant up here. We just elected one of them to serve as our MEP. Immigration is an issue for many. Just because it isn't an issue for you doesn't mean it isn't for others. Given that Salmond plans to get an extra 24k immigrants per year to meet his big plans - it is very much an issue. What do you think about Salmond's comments about the bbc chap? Look at this latest party poll too. Are the Greens irrelevant too, in your book? Edited June 5, 2014 by TheMaganator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The similarities with 1979 are very clear. Only this time we have the protection of our own devolved parliament. Which would have protected Scotland to a degree back then but we failed to get the target vote that the Government had decided on. What bothers me is the prospect of a UKIP drunk on power in coalition with the Tories . Whats to stop them trying to scrap the Scottish parliament after they have succeeded in getting the UK out of Europe ? Scary thing is those things are likely. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Anyone who genuinely thinks a Tory/UKIP coalition would attempt to scrap the Scottish Parliament is utterly bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 They are not irrelevant up here. We just elected one of them to serve as our MEP. Immigration is an issue for many. Just because it isn't an issue for you doesn't mean it isn't for others. Given that Salmond plans to get an extra 24k immigrants per year to meet his big plans - it is very much an issue. What do you think about Salmond's comments about the bbc chap? He doesn't plan to get an extra 24k we already have around 20k coming in each year and no I don't think it's a huge issue tbh. I've worked down south and tbh I might be a UKIP voter or worse if I lived in some parts of England but I digress, I still don't think most Scottish people have any idea what they are going on about tbh. Anyway why does everybody assume they have to Romanian or Bulgarian gypsies that will come to sponge off the state? Why can't they be qualified English, welsh, Irish, Aussies, Americans etc to expand our economy? I'm fairly sure when he says we need some immigrants he means decent hard working immigrants from all over to help us grow. Like I said on another post people up here are fed the English media and believe it to be their problem also when they haven't the faintest idea what's going on. Tell me where in Scotland are UKIP relevant? Where are the huge immigration problems that some parts of England are facing? Answer is people are reading the English press and watching the English news and believing it's happening all around them when it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah, the SNP is different though. Take away independence (either by achieving it or losing it for a generation) and you take away it's raison d'etra. I could be wrong but it'll be interesting Poor areas vote for Labour yet they stay poor. Politicians are careerists including the SNP. Edited June 5, 2014 by dobmisterdobster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Seems Cameron wants to insist it's a matter for the Scottish people yet calls on all other leaders to stick their oar in. The US Governemnt would've told him to ram it had they felt it not in their interests to voice, remember in the same conference he said the UK must stay in the EU. Bet call me Dave loved that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yeah the inaudible mumble incident, luckily for Darling. Are you suggesting we'd know much about UKIP was it not for our English run media prattling on about them all the time? They are only getting airtime and even picking up some support here due to the amount of time they get down south that is beamed into our lives they are irrelevant up here we don't have the English immigration problems yet if you listen to some people up here they talk like we're being overrun by foreigners. Again a couple of my mates constantly trot this pish out. Vote yes mate. Your hearts in it for a yes vote. Beware though. The pish you see and hear now will rattle on for years to come yes or no. There'll be cuts irregardless. War irregardless which scots die in. And poverty of wealth and the mind irregardless based on our society, UKIP get airtime because they make waves, Salmond did too when he made waves years back now. The SNP are an establishment party. The press don't care what they say. It's how and who says it. Not why they do. If you think it'll be different post yes, vote for it, but IMO it'll be more of the same crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JyTees Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The similarities with 1979 are very clear. Only this time we have the protection of our own devolved parliament. Which would have protected Scotland to a degree back then but we failed to get the target vote that the Government had decided on. What bothers me is the prospect of a UKIP drunk on power in coalition with the Tories . Whats to stop them trying to scrap the Scottish parliament after they have succeeded in getting the UK out of Europe ? Dear oh dear oh dear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Vote yes mate. Your hearts in it for a yes vote. Beware though. The pish you see and hear now will rattle on for years to come yes or no. There'll be cuts irregardless. War irregardless which scots die in. And poverty of wealth and the mind irregardless based on our society, UKIP get airtime because they make waves, Salmond did too when he made waves years back now. The SNP are an establishment party. The press don't care what they say. It's how and who says it. Not why they do. If you think it'll be different post yes, vote for it, but IMO it'll be more of the same crap. It won't quite be more of the same. the Govan Shipyards will close as the Navy contracts for the new warships will be cancelled. So unemployment will rise from day one. The Banks have their "contingency plans" for what happens in a Yes vote. They won't make that public but I'd suggest it will involve moving HQs down south to avoid english customers clsong their accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It won't quite be more of the same. the Govan Shipyards will close as the Navy contracts for the new warships will be cancelled. So unemployment will rise from day one. The Banks have their "contingency plans" for what happens in a Yes vote. They won't make that public but I'd suggest it will involve moving HQs down south to avoid english customers clsong their accounts. No, I agree with you too. It was more saying to JackD his hearts in a yes vote by the way he talks and he should just vote for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I predict that UKIP will get less than 5 seats at the general election and most likely none at all. The Tories have ruled out a coalition with them anyway and anyone who thinks devolution would be removed by a Tory government is delusional. Exactly the kind on non-sensical "scaremongering" and "bullying" rubbish the Yes campaign have been accusing Better Together of. This debate is swiftly becoming a race to the bottom and its now frankly embarrassing. Roll on September and let's get this over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It won't quite be more of the same. the Govan Shipyards will close as the Navy contracts for the new warships will be cancelled. So unemployment will rise from day one. The Banks have their "contingency plans" for what happens in a Yes vote. They won't make that public but I'd suggest it will involve moving HQs down south to avoid english customers clsong their accounts. There is apparently no plan B to build the warships anywhere else and debatable whether anywhere else can do it tbh. You can also read about people's opinions that used to work in shipyards that they have in huge decline under WM's watch and perhaps having to move into new markets could benefit. This union ideal works perversely in that people up here are quite happy to watch English shipyards close and people lose their jobs so we can guarantee jobs on the Clyde, that doesn't strike me as very British and I don't believe the Portsmouth workers don't see it that way either, they are angry as what they see jobs for votes. As for the banks there are no Scottish banks anymore anyway and this is another myth that they will fold up their tents and move south IMO. What about everybody's bank accounts, credit cards, mortgages, investments etc? They have billions of pounds of business here so have to keep their hand in surely. I read a bit the other day about the so called Scottish banks actually breaking away and becoming Scottish again in the unlikely event of a Yes can't find the link just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 What Obama really meant: "I don't give a shit as long as my bases and missiles aren't touched". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Gordon Brown is still political dynamite up here though isn't he? I honestly can't think of a single thing he's ever said where I'm not drifting into a coma the minute he starts talking. How this man became PM I'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Gordon Brown is still political dynamite up here though isn't he? I honestly can't think of a single thing he's ever said where I'm not drifting into a coma the minute he starts talking. How this man became PM I'll never know. He was apparently a top economist. We all saw how that panned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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