Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Ulysses]

 

Listening to colleagues of mine from other EU countries is tough, they're fully expecting us to march on out in September, grab our chance by the scruff of the neck and take control. No messing about. They think that's what and who we are.

 

 

That's pretty much what people here think - and they get very surprised when they hear what the opinion polls have to say.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

That's pretty much what people here think - and they get very surprised when they hear what the opinion polls have to say.

 

Decades of being put down has inevitably infiltrated the psyche of some. Years of being called benefit scroungers and having accents, names, culture etc mocked. Being called ungrateful etc... It's only natural that this would happen for some, while others it has strengthened their resolve.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sir David Attenborough

[flecktimus]

That's pretty much what people here think - and they get very surprised when they hear what the opinion polls have to say.

 

I run a small Hotel with a high proportion of overseas visitors who want to know what i expect from a new independent Scotland, they are also very surprised when i tell them that the opinion polls say its not going to happen.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

30yrs i lived down there and not one bloody phone call, i feel very unloved this am.

 

They're probably waiting on the new high speed rail connection to take them there, the one that goes from London to Scotland... erm... North of England... errr... Birmingham? Don't worry though, they'll get there, like a mob of patronising Jehovah's Witnesses pepped up on Fanta and goodwill.

[Gorgiewave]

That's pretty much what people here think - and they get very surprised when they hear what the opinion polls have to say.

 

My father-in-law is forever accusing me of being "as bad as the Catalans".

 

I try to explain, but he goes off on his rant about how Scotland is a colony of England. His natural home would be the SNP.

[pablo]

 

 

Decades of being put down has inevitably infiltrated the psyche of some. Years of being called benefit scroungers and having accents, names, culture etc mocked. Being called ungrateful etc... It's only natural that this would happen for some, while others it has strengthened their resolve.

 

Nonsense. The polls don't a run away march towards Independence because there's no national characteristics distinct to the Scots. We share the same beliefs and values as much in English regions and we've never been repressed or discriminated against.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

Nonsense. The polls don't a run away march towards Independence because there's no national characteristics distinct to the Scots. We share the same beliefs and values as much in English regions and we've never been repressed or discriminated against.

 

Absolute garbage.

[pablo]

 

 

Absolute garbage.

 

Why's that?

[Gorgiewave]

National identity is like some kind of mental prison. Though it is becoming less and less relevant, the equation that one's identity is based on where one is from looks so logical and convincing that people can't see beyond it. Like going to university will guarantee you a better job - very seductive, very logical, not true.

[Alba gu Brath]

Nonsense. The polls don't a run away march towards Independence because there's no national characteristics distinct to the Scots. We share the same beliefs and values as much in English regions and we've never been repressed or discriminated against.

 

Rubbish.

 

Cameron's woeful plea backfiring?!

[pablo]

 

 

Rubbish.

 

Cameron's woeful plea backfiring?!

 

So what? Dave is an arse. Agreed.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

Why's that?

 

Oh, I understand your little pre-prepared speach about lowland Scots and the fact we never spoke Gaelic, we are culturally identical to the English etc. *yawn*

 

How far back do we go when deciding what a country's culture is though?

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sir David Attenborough

[Gorgiewave]

Oh, I understand your little pre-prepared speach about lowland Scots and the fact we never spoke Gaelic, we are culturally identical to the English etc. *yawn*

 

How far back do we go when deciding what a country's culture is though?

 

Living in Spain, I could be in Scotland most of the time given the typical social attitudes and mentality. A bit more Catholic Church, a bit more family, the same inferiority complex, the same mindless desire for money, power and status, the same cool as feck scepticism about the United States, the same total capitulation in education to egalitarian ideology, etc.

[GrimUpNorth]

At the moment, the Scottish government is given a block grant by Westminster to spend how it sees fit. It can also vary some taxes, such as the basic level of income tax, or local taxes like the council tax.The overall macroeconomic framework is in Westminster's remit, and the currency is controlled by the Bank of England whose responsibility is to control the inflation target (and print funny money to save banks ).

 

Now, in an independent Scotland, Scotland can set all the taxes it wants to, set government spending at whatever level it is and run whatever surplus or deficit on the public finances it wishes. The Scottish electorate would vote accordingly.

 

In a currency union, however, Scotland would be unable to do that. Indeed, Scotland would have to move in line with Westminster because (i) Scotland is one tenth roughly of the currency zone, meaning it has very little leverage in economic direction and (ii) if it didn't, speculators would move capital away from Scotland (on the assumption Scotland would run a bigger fiscal deficit which left of centre governments tend to get associated with more) to the rest of the UK, leaving Scotland in a situation with a capital shortage and the Bank of England being lender of last resort.

 

To overcome this scenario, a strict fiscal pact must be adhered to within the zone, meaning that a "sovereign" government can be forced to either raise taxes or cut spending against its will, even if the electorate did not vote for it. It also creates more investor uncertainty, with investors demanding a higher interest rate for lending governments money. This is why it is an issue for the rest of the UK.

 

Scotland can, of course, use sterling if it wishes outside of a currency zone. It then runs the risk, however, of running out of sterling and not being able to pay its bills.

 

So a separate Scottish currency makes much more sense. In the initial stages, to "prove" Scotland's fiscal rectitude, it would make sense to peg the currency to sterling at a 1:1 exchange rate and a new Scottish Central Bank work with the Bank of England to preserve that rate. This allows for breaking of the link if there was some sort of economic shock (e.g. a spike in the price of oil which would drive up the Scottish pound relative to sterling and make Scottish goods in the rest of the UK relatively more uncompetitive to domestic goods). Then after a period of time (5 years say), the Scottish Central Bank could float the Scottish pound and allow it to find its own level.

 

A currency zone keeps taxpayers in the rest of the UK on the hook to bail out a Scottish government and vice versa. How would Scots feel if they had to pony up for Barclays going tits up, for example, in an independent Scotland? Similarly, if Westminster went to war against someone in the Middle East and borrowed more, how would Scots feel about that as their government responded in kind to maintain the fiscal pact?

 

excellent post Geoff, cheers. Clears up a lot.

 

Quite bizarre why you'd commit your whole life to independence then come up with this currency union. I'm suprised there's not more criticism from SNP/Yes supporters. Or is it independence at whatever costs ?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

Living in Spain, I could be in Scotland most of the time given the typical social attitudes and mentality. A bit more Catholic Church, a bit more family, the same inferiority complex, the same mindless desire for money, power and status, the same cool as feck scepticism about the United States, the same total capitulation in education to egalitarian ideology, etc.

 

They should just make Spain part of the UK too then, clearly they are culturally identical. Pretty selfish of those ungrateful Spaniards to not want to be ruled by Westminster imo.

[GrimUpNorth]

Hi Mr Grim,

 

Loads going on, at least on the Yes side, check out: http://yesscotland.n...m/join_an_event

 

cheers, just did a search by my postcode and closest event is a 3 hour drive, not even anything in Inverness. There's over 200,000 potential voters incl Inverness and further North.

[Gorgiewave]

They should just make Spain part of the UK too then, clearly they are culturally identical. Pretty selfish of those ungrateful Spaniards to not want to be ruled by Westminster imo.

 

There is difference, it's just that it's not much. I think you or I would feel more or less at home culturally in Ireland, Spain, Australia or Germany. It wouldn't be a shock.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

There is difference, it's just that it's not much. I think you or I would feel more or less at home culturally in Ireland, Spain, Australia or Germany. It wouldn't be a shock.

 

I have workmates from Portugal, Poland, Spain, England, China, Japan, Ecuador etc, our similarities are more than our differences. The differences however should be embraced and appreciated rather than dismissed, imo.

 

Scots have an identity of their own just as those others do, and to just dismiss it as some do, is pretty insulting I think. We have a unique history just as others do and it confuses me that some are so in denial of that. I love my English family, but I absolutely feel that we have our own similar but different cultures. We share many periods of our history as a United Kingdom, but we also have that which is unique.

[JamboInSouthsea]

There is difference, it's just that it's not much. I think you or I would feel more or less at home culturally in Ireland, Spain, Australia or Germany. It wouldn't be a shock.

 

 

All the more reason to ignore claims that we should be in a union because we're the same culturally, socially, kith and kin etc.

[Gorgiewave]

I have workmates from Portugal, Poland, Spain, England, China, Japan, Ecuador etc, our similarities are more than our differences. The differences however should be embraced and appreciated rather than dismissed, imo.

 

Scots have an identity of their own just as those others do, and to just dismiss it as some do, is pretty insulting I think. We have a unique history just as others do and it confuses me that some are so in denial of that. I love my English family, but I absolutely feel that we have our own similar but different cultures. We share many periods of our history as a United Kingdom, but we also have that which is unique.

 

Yes, I am also proud of some aspects of the (somewhat mythologised) history of Scottish education and I can sing along with "Is there for Honest Poverty?" with as much gusto as the next man. But all that is already possible in the United Kingdom. This referendum is not pragmatic, which should be the final aim of politics, but rather unnecessarily ideological and hair-splitting. It is also possible to be Edinburgh-minded and a Lowlander within Scotland without demanding independence for the Lothians.

 

Out of interest, will your line of work, specifically funding, be affected by independence?

[Gorgiewave]

 

All the more reason to ignore claims that we should be in a union because we're the same culturally, socially, kith and kin etc.

 

No, all the more reason to look beyond cultural questions and be more pragmatic about it. The idea that Tories are alien is just false.

[Ulysses]

 

Decades of being put down has inevitably infiltrated the psyche of some. Years of being called benefit scroungers and having accents, names, culture etc mocked. Being called ungrateful etc... It's only natural that this would happen for some, while others it has strengthened their resolve.

 

That's one possible explanation. Another explanation could be that many people feel that their sense of Scottish identity is well catered for by the present constitutional arrangements. Maybe some Scots even feel that it wouldn't make any difference one way or the other.

[Gorgiewave]

I think some people need to grow a pair of balls or just calm down. Glasgow people mock Edinburgh for being Anglicised, snobby and unfriendly, Edinburgh people mock Glasgow for being manky. Who cares? "Decades of being put down". Scotland is not a humiliated nation, it just isn't. The thing is, it is less important than it thinks and gets huffy about that.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

Yes, I am also proud of some aspects of the (somewhat mythologised) history of Scottish education and I can sing along with "Is there for Honest Poverty?" with as much gusto as the next man. But all that is already possible in the United Kingdom. This referendum is not pragmatic, which should be the final aim of politics, but rather unnecessarily ideological and hair-splitting. It is also possible to be Edinburgh-minded and a Lowlander within Scotland without demanding independence for the Lothians.

 

Out of interest, will your line of work, specifically funding, be affected by independence?

 

There are key Scottish interests which are better served by a government who has them at the forefront of their priorities, rather than seeing them as secondary to the well being of a larger nation where the majority of the population and the capital city reside.

 

I'm so general in my skill set now that I would always find someone needing those skills in an independent Scotland or in a Scotland as part of a United Kingdom. The official University line is one of almost indifference to be honest, they do not try and push us in any direction and have a forum where staff can discuss the issues. Scotland will always be a country with an interest in discovery, medicine, research and science, so I don't worry too much about that to be honest.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

That's one possible explanation. Another explanation could be that many people feel that their sense of Scottish identity is well catered for by the present constitutional arrangements. Maybe some Scots even feel that it wouldn't make any difference one way or the other.

 

That would be fair enough. I think there are plenty who feel both ways.

[Guest GhostHunter]

That's one possible explanation. Another explanation could be that many people feel that their sense of Scottish identity is well catered for by the present constitutional arrangements. Maybe some Scots even feel that it wouldn't make any difference one way or the other.

 

[Gorgiewave]

There are key Scottish interests which are better served by a government who has them at the forefront of their priorities, rather than seeing them as secondary to the well being of a larger nation where the majority of the population and the capital city reside.

 

I'm so general in my skill set now that I would always find someone needing those skills in an independent Scotland or in a Scotland as part of a United Kingdom. The official University line is one of almost indifference to be honest, they do not try and push us in any direction and have a forum where staff can discuss the issues. Scotland will always be a country with an interest in discovery, medicine, research and science, so I don't worry too much about that to be honest.

 

Scotland already has a government which is responsible for the majority of policy areas. That government will be happy to have decisions made in Brussels, however. Scotland already has considerably more autonomy than many places.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

Scotland already has a government which is responsible for the majority of policy areas. That government will be happy to have decisions made in Brussels, however. Scotland already has considerably more autonomy than many places.

 

Some decisions that effect Scotland more than anyone else are currently made by a government which cannot treat Scotland as its prime responsibility. I would prefer that to not be the case. As it stands we have a Scottish government that is secondary to a UK one, which is in turn answerable to a European one. I do not feel we need the middleman when dealing with issues that are of more importance to Scotland alone, rather than the whole of the UK.

[syndicalist]

The yes campaign has taken a really negative turn. "We're crap, but we'll be less crap without the English" seems to be the cry now. What was the response to Cameron's intervention? "Coward", hardly inspiring when faced with an open goal.

[pablo]

 

 

Oh, I understand your little pre-prepared speach about lowland Scots and the fact we never spoke Gaelic, we are culturally identical to the English etc. *yawn*

 

How far back do we go when deciding what a country's culture is though?

 

I hadn't even considered the Gaels to be honest, I've been to Islay for a wedding once. I think they are Gaels there and very nice they were too.

 

But, in my experience there are next to no cultural differences between the Scots and the English, especially in the North. It's just how I find things. I work closely with English people day in, day out. Guys the same age as me, with families and homes. We share the same concerns, share similar experiences and have the same priorities. what are these National Characteristics that I have, being from Edinburgh, which my Mancunian colleague doesn't ?

Edited February 8, 2014 by pablo

[coconut doug]

<a name="cke_range_marker">

 

 

what are these National Characteristics that I have, being from Edinburgh, which my Mancunian colleague doesn't ?

Lesley Riddoch will tell you.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/father-knows-best/

[Jessjambo]

Just vote YES

[Arnold Rothstein]

Just vote YES

 

Nah. Thanks though.

[djf]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/legal-advice-on-scottish-eu-membership-within-weeks.23373248

 

Hopefully the outcome of this is clear cut either way so we don't see both sides desperately attempting to spin it in their favour but i won't hold my breath.

[IMac]

 

 

 

 

I totally agree. A lot of my posts attempt to say that very thing. I don't know enough about Canadian politics but Cameron isn't an electable brand in Scotland for many and he isn't alk that popular. As I say I don't know enough about the Quebec/Canada issue but Cameron may bot be the best figure for this.

 

Out of interest do you know who fronted the Canadian/Quebec events? Also did the sitting Canadian PM debate the Premier? I assume IMac that you live in Canada lr did around then.

 

prime minister was a quebecer made it easy to be a voice for no but I think the no leader was a quebec minister.

 

Lived in ontario at the time.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Do the "No" voters actually have a viable argument to put forward or do they just post links to scaremongering articles that are usually dismissed or already have been, try and fail to ridicule the "Yes" argument and talk about how shite Scotland is and how we're just a big village in England?

 

It's beyond boring. Especially when it comes from people who don't even live here.

 

Nearly forgot the EU argument there, the same EU their no vote makes them less likely to be a part of

Edited February 9, 2014 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[A Boy Named Crow]

Do the "No" voters actually have a viable argument to put forward or do they just post links to scaremongering articles that are usually dismissed or already have been, try and fail to ridicule the "Yes" argument and talk about how shite Scotland is and how we're just a big village in England?

 

It's beyond boring. Especially when it comes from people who don't even live here.

 

Nearly forgot the EU argument there, the same EU their no vote makes them less likely to be a part of

 

I've tried asking NO folk that question many times before to no avail, it's no surprise that that The Herald published a story claiming it was someone from Better Together who first dubbed the NO campaign"Project Fear" - if I was arguing from a position as weak as theirs I'd probably try to avoid real debate too!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Do the "No" voters actually have a viable argument to put forward or do they just post links to scaremongering articles that are usually dismissed or already have been, try and fail to ridicule the "Yes" argument and talk about how shite Scotland is and how we're just a big village in England?

 

It's beyond boring. Especially when it comes from people who don't even live here.

 

Nearly forgot the EU argument there, the same EU their no vote makes them less likely to be a part of

 

You would have to ask them but you are right the No "campaign" isn't even worthy of the word.

 

Hands together at Hadrian's Wall?

[deesidejambo]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

The Open belongs more to Scotland than England.

 

As for the National, do the Irish who swarm to Aintree and Cheltenham feel any less of a connection?

[deesidejambo]

The Open belongs more to Scotland than England.

 

As for the National, do the Irish who swarm to Aintree and Cheltenham feel any less of a connection?

 

Yes they do feel less connection. Its not their race and they can go to it if they want but they also have their own National, as does Scotland. Anyway I was using these as examples of things which of course will continue, but will be seen now as "English" i.e foreign. as to your point about the Open Golf - that presumably will continue but again it will imo lose some of its traditional value.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Yes they do feel less connection. Its not their race and they can go to it if they want but they also have their own National, as does Scotland. Anyway I was using these as examples of things which of course will continue, but will be seen now as "English" i.e foreign. as to your point about the Open Golf - that presumably will continue but again it will imo lose some of its traditional value.

Well, technically the National is the English Grand National in any case but it is an iconic race worldwide in the same way that the Prix de L'Arc or Melbourne Cup are. Indeed, here in VIC we get a holiday for the Cup. No one else in Oz does but it doesn't make it a VIC exclusive race by any means.

 

Culture is what you make it.

[A Boy Named Crow]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

 

Nobody has a crystal ball, and nobody can tell you 100% how things will be, either way. This video makes a good economic case for independence though. It's about half an hour long, but it's well worth watching.

 

 

 

[deesidejambo]

Nobody has a crystal ball, and nobody can tell you 100% how things will be, either way. This video makes a good economic case for independence though. It's about half an hour long, but it's well worth watching.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1W8cKHcZn60&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1W8cKHcZn60&app=desktop

 

When it comes to an economic argument you are correct - it cant be predicted with accuracy. Thats why I fall back on some direct examples which can - The warships on the Clyde and Faslane/Couplort will definately go, along with the associated employment. I expect there will be others. I don't see any direct evidence of new jobs being created by Independence , therefore I state that unemployment will increase.

[A Boy Named Crow]

 

 

When it comes to an economic argument you are correct - it cant be predicted with accuracy. Thats why I fall back on some direct examples which can - The warships on the Clyde and Faslane/Couplort will definately go, along with the associated employment. I expect there will be others. I don't see any direct evidence of new jobs being created by Independence , therefore I state that unemployment will increase.

 

Except that in the short to medium term Faslane is going nowhere, you can't just stick a nuclear sub in any old port. Over the time between independence abd any of these jobs being lost there would be the opportunity to reskill etc. Now have you watched the video?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Except that in the short to medium term Faslane is going nowhere, you can't just stick a nuclear sub in any old port. Over the time between independence abd any of these jobs being lost there would be the opportunity to reskill etc. Now have you watched the video?

I'm not going to watch it as I have a new drama biopic here about INXS to watch now. I'm guessing it doesn't mention the Scottish demographic issue though?

[flecktimus]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

 

How many shipbuilding jobs have been lost since 1979 when we where told they would be safe?

[jack D and coke]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

Since when did Wimbledon, The grand national and Glastonbury have anything to do with Scotland? I don't have any problem with great English things tbh and these things you mentioned are brilliant English things. They'll still just be down the road and you can still watch them. And it's not the the British Open it's The Open and it's ours if you want to be pedantic about it.

[jack D and coke]

I cant see what there is to gain by Independence.

 

But there is plenty to lose - shipbuilding jobs and jobs at Faslane/Coulport will go for certain. I predict unemployment will rise from that and other Companies who will relocate down south - the UK gov't will make sure of that - we will be in a competitive environment with them for jobs, and they have bigger levers to pull than us when it comes to attracting foreign investment. For example, if a Chinese or Indian Company wants to locate a factory in UK, the UK Govt will make sure it goes to them - they will have far more clout due to the ability to do big bilateral deals.

 

National cultural identity stuff like Wimbledon, British Open Golf, Grand National, Glastonbury, etc will continue but will no longer be part of Scottish identity. We will be left with T In The Park and The Festival. The "identity" thing will play on peoples emotions and is important, hence Camerons speech the other day.

 

Social policy in Scotland will change, for example they will can the Bedroom Tax. I don't agree with that. The bedroom tax, which incidentally isn't a tax at all - its a reduction in benefits, is a sensible and fair thing. If Scotland keep it the next episodes of Benefit Street will be up here.

 

I just don't see a material gain from voting Yes, but a lot of direct loss if we vote No.

Since when did Wimbledon, The grand national and Glastonbury have anything to do with Scotland? I don't have any problem with great English things tbh and these things you mentioned are brilliant English things. They'll still just be down the road and you can still watch them. And it's not the the British Open it's The Open and it's ours if you want to be pedantic about it.