Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Konrad von Carstein]

On 24/04/2024 at 10:09, Konrad von Carstein said:

This thread is now a car crash of the usual suspects either trolling and playing to the gallery along with certain posters just being  gigantic 🐓🐓🐓

 

Thread is ruined.

 

On 24/04/2024 at 10:25, JudyJudyJudy said:

Close the door on your way out then , my dear . Mind your head 

 

On 24/04/2024 at 10:43, Konrad von Carstein said:

Good idea, saves me having to watch you trying to play kissy catchy with your new pals...

 

 

 

7 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Thought u were leaving this thread ? You said so yesterday ! 😂

You took from our interaction above that I had thrown a strop and was leaving the thread?

Now, you carry on spamming and seeking approval from your playgroup and I will continue to post on here as and when I choose

 

[John Findlay]

9 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't think any other mainstream party will consider sharing power with the Greens in their current guise, to be honest. They are no longer going to be kingmakers.

Maybe they can be Queenmakers?

[TallPaul]

23 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Maybe they can be Queenmakers?

🤣

[redjambo]

7 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

The question is why did D Ross not move VONC in the government which if passed would be much more likely to result in a Holyrood election?

And if Yousaf remains in post next week will Sarwar move such a VONC, targeted at the SG rather than at Yousaf himself?

 

 

Because it is unlikely that he could be guaranteed Green support for such a motion, imo, given that they have been part of the government up until now. Harvey has already expressed that his party would support a no confidence motion aimed specifically at Yousaf but not necessarily one that is critical of the entire government or its "progressive" policies which the Greens have been an integral part of.

[Lord Montpelier]

Nice sunny morning. Perhaps reflective of a more optimistic nation now the figurehead of Scottish nationalism has untied himself and the nationalists from the poisonous greens and their horrendous social policies.

 

Now I wonder what the next few days will bring. 

[Japan Jambo]

11 hours ago, OTT said:

 

 

Alex on point as normal  

 

I find it incredible that those serious about independence repeatedly turn their back on the one politician with the skill, charisma, perseverance and belief in the cause. He was done up like a kipper by the Murrells, I don't understand how he can't be habilitated back to the cause.

 

[Australis]

11 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nice sunny morning. Perhaps reflective of a more optimistic nation now the figurehead of Scottish nationalism has untied himself and the nationalists from the poisonous greens and their horrendous social policies.

 

Now I wonder what the next few days will bring. 

 

 

Will we get I was intending to stand down anyway.

 

 

I have thought about standing down for the last few months.

 

[Japan Jambo]

51 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Maybe they can be Queenmakers?

 

Surely in order to represent all the people of Scotland we need a Trans candidate? 🤣

[John Findlay]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Surely in order to represent all the people of Scotland we need a Trans candidate? 🤣

You mean become kieen/quing makers?

[Konrad von Carstein]

11 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Surely in order to represent all the people of Scotland we need a Trans candidate? 🤣

 

9 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

You mean become kieen/quing makers?

You two better gird your loins for death by giffage!!

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

You two better gird your loins for death by giffage!!

 

 

 

Front row seats for Blair Drummond 🤣 

 

Do I need to bring Eck back up the road with me?

[Lord Montpelier]

17 minutes ago, Australis said:

 

 

Will we get I was intending to stand down anyway.

 

 

I have thought about standing down for the last few months.

 

If he does go it will be some lame excuse. Maybe he'll be tired like the Chief Mammy was.

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I find it incredible that those serious about independence repeatedly turn their back on the one politician with the skill, charisma, perseverance and belief in the cause. He was done up like a kipper by the Murrells, I don't understand how he can't be habilitated back to the cause.

 

The ones who dislike Salmond I have serious doubts about tbh. Speaks sense and has been sorely missed in Scottish politics. Imo. 
Anyone and I mean ANYONE siding with NS or that goon Humza just can’t be taken seriously imo. 
They’ve almost burnt it to the ****ing ground with all their shite. Those greens were toxic AF🤮
I liked Salmonds quip about liking a flutter on the horses and if Humza was a horse he wouldn’t back him  

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just heard some random SNP M<SP on the radio, she epitomises what's wrong with the SNP, she said she cant believe anybody would vote for anything put forward by ra Toareez?  labour should not be voting with them niether should the greens.

 

So in essence if there was a brilliant idea that the Conservatives put forward, the SNP will not vote with them.  That immature mantra is whats wrong with these nutters, and need to be kicked out.  They just have not read the room, even for reasons at both ends of the spectrum, Humza has naffed off every to a point they are all united in Humza must go.  Even though its for lots of reasons.

 

She also said that all SNP members will vote for Humza......I am not so sure

 

Shame I did not get her name

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

If he does go it will be some lame excuse. Maybe he'll be tired like the Chief Mammy was.

According to some inside the SG, I am hearing he did considering it, but wants to come out fighting.  Its being discussed, just events change very quickly, and what is said this morning might be a different narrative this afternoon.

 

 

[doctor jambo]

15 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

If he does go it will be some lame excuse. Maybe he'll be tired like the Chief Mammy was.

New first minister of Scotland- White

[Hagar the Horrible]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

New first minister of Scotland- White

Too Christian

[Gundermann]

39 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I find it incredible that those serious about independence repeatedly turn their back on the one politician with the skill, charisma, perseverance and belief in the cause. He was done up like a kipper by the Murrells, I don't understand how he can't be habilitated back to the cause.

 

 

Because he's a toxic creep.

[John Findlay]

13 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

According to some inside the SG, I am hearing he did considering it, but wants to come out fighting.  Its being discussed, just events change very quickly, and what is said this morning might be a different narrative this afternoon.

 

 

When they do the soundings(if not already done so) of the sitting SNP MSPs, and they find not all are forthcoming in their support for Humza, he will fall on his sword.

[XB52]

20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The ones who dislike Salmond I have serious doubts about tbh. Speaks sense and has been sorely missed in Scottish politics. Imo. 
Anyone and I mean ANYONE siding with NS or that goon Humza just can’t be taken seriously imo. 
They’ve almost burnt it to the ****ing ground with all their shite. Those greens were toxic AF🤮
I liked Salmonds quip about liking a flutter on the horses and if Humza was a horse he wouldn’t back him  

 

Salmond cares about one thing, Alex Salmond. I detest him with a passion.

[redjambo]

20 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Just heard some random SNP M<SP on the radio, she epitomises what's wrong with the SNP, she said she cant believe anybody would vote for anything put forward by ra Toareez?  labour should not be voting with them niether should the greens.

 

So in essence if there was a brilliant idea that the Conservatives put forward, the SNP will not vote with them.  That immature mantra is whats wrong with these nutters, and need to be kicked out.  They just have not read the room, even for reasons at both ends of the spectrum, Humza has naffed off every to a point they are all united in Humza must go.  Even though its for lots of reasons.

 

She also said that all SNP members will vote for Humza......I am not so sure

 

Shame I did not get her name

 

When the Scottish Parliament was set up, it was hailed as a new era of consensus, sensible, adult politicking and decision-making. Didn't take long for human nature to feck that up.

[XB52]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

When they do the soundings(if not already done so) of the sitting SNP MSPs, and they find not all are forthcoming in their support for Humza, he will fall on his sword.

Unfortunately I have to agree with this. Unless he has the 100% support of his MSPs then he will have to step down

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Salmond cares about one thing, Alex Salmond. I detest him with a passion.

 

Indeed. And add his stint on Russia Today into the mix, and you have someone whom Scottish politics should keep well at arm's length.

[OTT]

40 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I find it incredible that those serious about independence repeatedly turn their back on the one politician with the skill, charisma, perseverance and belief in the cause. He was done up like a kipper by the Murrells, I don't understand how he can't be habilitated back to the cause.

 

 

Yep. Clear as day that something absolutely reeks about his trial. The fact that he's successfully sued the government and is doing it again, thats not a man that pulled an OJ and is counting his lucky blessings, thats a man thats been wronged and is out of blood. I hope he's able to get to a point where what is clear to many, is clear to all. 

 

Its all well and good say "sleepy cuddles" and all the other nonsense at him, but break down the accusations - I mean twiddling someones hair which was a known office joke, allegedly putting his hand on someones leg which was impossible due to a seat divider in the vehicle and the driver testifying as much.. I think in one, he brushed past someone? Just laughable TBH and does a disservice to victims of actual sexual assault. 

 

How perjury charges haven't been laid is genuinely something we should have an answer for... 

[XB52]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. And add his stint on Russia Today into the mix, and you have someone whom Scottish politics should keep well at arm's length.

Alba have 1 unelected MSP and he thinks that turncoat should be deciding SG policy?? 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Dross has jumped to early with his vonc ,I would be suprised if Salmond orders Regan to bring down the FM ,his party struggles to get 2% in polls ,Regan would be gone as would Alba after a forced election .

The SNP would just say you stood with the unionist parties .

Alba if it is to grow ,bringing down a goverment wouldn't look good to independence supporters .

Greens are sore but won't want an election as they likely would take loses ,a big chunk of the support they get is SNP 2nd 3rd choice .

Does Dross want an election bit stupid as tory lot will get cut in half ,it does nowt to help the tory and the mess they are in  .

Would suit labour and the dims .

New SNP leader could argue distance between themselves and previous ,would argue this was unionists ganging up ,playing politics stopping holyrood from functioning .

 

Think Dross if he had nous would have waited a few months before pulling this stunt ,let people watch the FM flounder with a minority gov .

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Yep. Clear as day that something absolutely reeks about his trial. The fact that he's successfully sued the government and is doing it again, thats not a man that pulled an OJ and is counting his lucky blessings, thats a man thats been wronged and is out of blood. I hope he's able to get to a point where what is clear to many, is clear to all. 

 

Its all well and good say "sleepy cuddles" and all the other nonsense at him, but break down the accusations - I mean twiddling someones hair which was a known office joke, allegedly putting his hand on someones leg which was impossible due to a seat divider in the vehicle and the driver testifying as much.. I think in one, he brushed past someone? Just laughable TBH and does a disservice to victims of actual sexual assault. 

 

How perjury charges haven't been laid is genuinely something we should have an answer for... 

on one hand the SNP became obsessed with sexual assault, and the consequences for women of unwarranted touching etc

 

then on the other hand became obsessed with removing female protections for women who had been victims of sexual violence 

 

Go figure 

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Alba have 1 unelected MSP and he thinks that turncoat should be deciding SG policy?? 

Is she also a right wing fanatic?

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

When they do the soundings(if not already done so) of the sitting SNP MSPs, and they find not all are forthcoming in their support for Humza, he will fall on his sword.

I agree,  everybody and anybody has been up all night particularly in the SNP sounding each other out, do they show a united front, or cut their losses and break ranks.  Kate Forbes is already in the wings waiting

[The Mighty Thor]

49 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I find it incredible that those serious about independence repeatedly turn their back on the one politician with the skill, charisma, perseverance and belief in the cause. He was done up like a kipper by the Murrells, I don't understand how he can't be habilitated back to the cause.

 

 

Can't decide if you're serious or on a rather subtle fishing expedition 

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Salmond cares about one thing, Alex Salmond. I detest him with a passion.

 

I'm personally a big Salmond fan, but he does absolutely have an ego. Do think that he remains the most experienced and competent policitian in Scotland. 

 

The SNPs actions on Independence over the Sturgeon era is litered with one blunder and unforced error after another - trying to stop Brexit, Blackford being proven to be nothing but hot air, the position of accepting "now is not the time" to then becoming "no", the failed legal challenge and then dividing Scotland (and therefore the yes movement) with deeply unpopular policies like the GRA, HMPA and so on. 

 

I suppose we'd all have a bit of an ego if we were surrounded by such shite  

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Salmond cares about one thing, Alex Salmond. I detest him with a passion.

Fair enough.
Who did Nicola Sturgeon care about? 
Salmond was at least competent and a good politician. You don’t have to like them all but you need to know they’re not taking the piss. 

The SNP are mostly piss takers now. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Can't decide if you're serious or on a rather subtle fishing expedition 

 

Given JJ's political views expressed on here, I would hazard the latter.

[hughesie27]

SNPs problem now is that the Indy movement is so big in Scotland now that it's impossible for 1 pro Indy party to cover the political opinions of every Pro Indy constituent.

[redjambo]

Just now, OTT said:

 

I'm personally a big Salmond fan, but he does absolutely have an ego. Do think that he remains the most experienced and competent policitian in Scotland. 

 

The SNPs actions on Independence over the Sturgeon era is litered with one blunder and unforced error after another - trying to stop Brexit, Blackford being proven to be nothing but hot air, the position of accepting "now is not the time" to then becoming "no", the failed legal challenge and then dividing Scotland (and therefore the yes movement) with deeply unpopular policies like the GRA, HMPA and so on. 

 

I suppose we'd all have a bit of an ego if we were surrounded by such shite  

 

Trying to stop Brexit was a blunder?

[redjambo]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

SNPs problem now is that the Indy movement is so big in Scotland now that it's impossible for 1 pro Indy party to cover the political opinions of every Pro Indy constituent.

 

A fair point, Hughesie.

[Hagar the Horrible]

The mess Humza has made for himself un unparalleled.  The Greens are going after him because he stopped backing up their gender reform policies, but unless he come out and says so he done.

 

Ash has sent a letter to ensure that a woman is a woman, and that INDY v2.0 must be priority, then she will vote against him.

The Greens are only interested in kids and men being women

 

He has tried to sit on the fence, He has failed in every post, yet we are surprised he has failed in this one.

 

He was put in by the Murrells so nobody will look under the hood of the SNP campervan

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

on one hand the SNP became obsessed with sexual assault, and the consequences for women of unwarranted touching etc

 

then on the other hand became obsessed with removing female protections for women who had been victims of sexual violence 

 

Go figure 

 

The GRA was such a fumble its unreal. So many experienced activists were telling them this is an awful idea and they decided to listen to some confused students copying what they saw in America... 

[Hagar the Horrible]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Trying to stop Brexit was a blunder?

NO, but once it was a done deal they spent time sabotaging it.  They could have tried o make it work and push for another referendum on re-joining the EU (after a trial period)

[i wish jj was my dad]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

A fair point, Hughesie.

That's exactly it. They need to split into what they actually believe in. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

SNPs problem now is that the Indy movement is so big in Scotland now that it's impossible for 1 pro Indy party to cover the political opinions of every Pro Indy constituent.

Nicola maintained a broad church and help control over it well, Right up to the point when she got into bed with the greens and push through extremist policies.  When she was found out it collapsed, and Humza is no more than a puppet for Her and (Him/Them)

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

The GRA was such a fumble its unreal. So many experienced activists were telling them this is an awful idea and they decided to listen to some confused students copying what they saw in America... 

it  was a massive misjudge of what people actually thought versus what they would admit .

most would say they support trans rights,

for fear of consequence 

but most think it’s a crock of shit

 

the timing with Isla Bryson was sublime.

Sturgeon being unable to say Bryson was a woman showed how utterly farcical gender self ID was.

She couldn’t even do it herself 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Trying to stop Brexit was a blunder?

 

Yes. 

 

Should have been characterised as Englands Brexit, position should have been clearly that this is a material change in circumstances from the future promised to Scots in 2014 for voting no, and we will be having another vote. 

 

I.e use the momentum of opposition on Brexit to force another referendum or put Independence front and centre of the 2017 general election (or 2019). So either way, voters get the opportunity to express their view. If they deny a referendum, it goes first line of the manifesto and presumably it goes legal thereafter - but rather than in Sturgeons failed legal challenge, the yes camp ideally have over 50% of voters expressing their desire for Independence, which carries weight when the brits try and stop it (as it is a clear expression of will). 

 

By trying to stop it, Sturgeon tacitly accepted it -which I think has made the whole situation impossible to extracate ourselves from. Blackford said one thing "Will not be dragged out of the EU against our will", then Sturgeons inaction/course of action effectively undermined him and left him looking like an idiot. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Humza just cancelled a speech on Indy in Glasgow this lunchtime

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

NO, but once it was a done deal they spent time sabotaging it.  They could have tried o make it work and push for another referendum on re-joining the EU (after a trial period)

 

Sabotaging it? You mean in the various Westminster votes on the precise nature of the relationship. Every party fecked it up there, the Tories controlled by the ERG and the others not realising that hard Brexit was actually a realistic possibility so getting sidetracked by their political squabbles.

[Hagar the Horrible]

The letter from Ash has been published and it is what I said  Independence and protecting Women's rights otherwise I will nip.

 

Indy first will just cause further division.  And women's right in direct conflict with the Greens,

 

She has set him up for a fall

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sabotaging it? You mean in the various Westminster votes on the precise nature of the relationship. Every party fecked it up there, the Tories controlled by the ERG and the others not realising that hard Brexit was actually a realistic possibility so getting sidetracked by their political squabbles.

You cannot deny grievance politics in play, they wanted even Devolution to fail, blame all on WM and all will be a bed of roses in an Indy Scotland.  They tried to take advantage of a bad decision by the UK people, who I think regret it now

[Des Lynam]

35 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Salmond cares about one thing, Alex Salmond. I detest him with a passion.

You didn’t always feel that way. Hell you were even backing him after the court trial when Sturgeon and the rest tried to fit him up. What made you change your mind? 

[manaliveits105]

25 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

SNPs problem now is that the Indy movement is so big in Scotland now that it's impossible for 1 pro Indy party to cover the political opinions of every Pro Indy constituent.

Really ! Yes was at 57% with Mammy at her zenith but now  back to 2014 levels and falling like a stone 

People just want the day job done and independence is far from being a priority for normal thinking Scots 

 

[Homme]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Really ! Yes was at 57% with Mammy at her zenith but now  back to 2014 levels and falling like a stone 

People just want the day job done and independence is far from being a priority for normal thinking Scots 

 

 

Agree with that. I have no strong Indy feeling either way. Have voted SNP the last twice but won't be next time around.

 

Day job as you say, first and foremost.