Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[manaliveits105]

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Not necessarily

If folk think there's an actual reason to vote SNP other than just more of the same pension-padding, gravy-train, career-focused Westminster bums on seats then a de facto referendum could be a viable tactic

But at this point in time there is no desire for it, if the SNP standing in the polls is anything to go by.

[lost in space]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

But at this point in time there is no desire for it, if the SNP standing in the polls is anything to go by.

I think there is a desire for the "blue sky" country that the SNP are suggesting.

The wealthy and debt free, green, nuclear free, NATO and EU member. It would have free health service with no waiting times, education as good as it was before they came to power, free Public transport, high tax for the wealthy, high level benefits.

In reality, many of those who say they want independence, would not vote for such an unrealistic future, unless there was clear evidence to show it was likely.

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, lost in space said:

In reality, many of those who say they want independence, would not vote for such an unrealistic future, unless there was clear evidence to show it was likely.

 

Or financially viable.

[AyrJambo]

45 minutes ago, Boris said:

But at this point in time there is no desire for it, if the SNP standing in the polls is anything to go by.

 

Desire for the SNP or desire for independence?

You have pointed out yourself that the two are not the same

There's no desire for an SNP which has no strategy to deliver independence other than to keep asking for an S30 referendum

[Boris]

21 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Desire for the SNP or desire for independence?

You have pointed out yourself that the two are not the same

There's no desire for an SNP which has no strategy to deliver independence other than to keep asking for an S30 referendum

Desire for the SNP.  As you say, I'd pointed out the difference between SNP and independence.

 

After hubris comes nemesis and this is what the SNP in its current guise are about to experience, IMO.

[Boris]

52 minutes ago, lost in space said:

I think there is a desire for the "blue sky" country that the SNP are suggesting.

The wealthy and debt free, green, nuclear free, NATO and EU member. It would have free health service with no waiting times, education as good as it was before they came to power, free Public transport, high tax for the wealthy, high level benefits.

In reality, many of those who say they want independence, would not vote for such an unrealistic future, unless there was clear evidence to show it was likely.

 

Desire for independence is still there, going by how well Yes is consistently polling, so wouldn't disagree with you there.

 

I just think that the whole country (UK & Scotland) is in such a state that the short term economic recovery and reestablishing of infrastructure, public services etc is at the front of more peoples priorities than independence.  One could argue that independence would bring us this, but as you say that is a tough one to convince the majority of voters.

46 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Or financially viable.

 

Again, fair point and due to the skepticism surrounding that issue, given cost of living etc who would really want to take that risk?

 

I voted yes in 2014, but my view was that had Yes won, things would have been tough, economically, in the short term.

[AyrJambo]

7 minutes ago, Boris said:

Desire for the SNP.  As you say, I'd pointed out the difference between SNP and independence.

 

After hubris comes nemesis and this is what the SNP in its current guise are about to experience, IMO.

 

And after nemesis no doubt the withering scorn of @JudyJudyJudy which is altogether more serious 🙂

 

[Boris]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

And after nemesis no doubt the withering scorn of @JudyJudyJudy which is altogether more serious 🙂

 

 

[AyrJambo]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

 

Poll summarys get yer poll summarys here, 2 fer a pound, 2 fer a pound

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Wiki_Scots_Indep_V6_recent_polls.pdf

 

Edited April 24 by AyrJambo
wrong file format

[JudyJudyJudy]

The only poll which matters is the actual ref poll and that ain’t happening for a Long time so suck it up buttercups 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, AyrJambo said:

 

And after nemesis no doubt the withering scorn of @JudyJudyJudy which is altogether more serious 🙂

 

Oh I can do scorn like no one else . 😝

[manaliveits105]

The snp have ensured that the games up the pole for independence 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

The snp have ensured that the games up the pole for independence 

They royally hibsd it . I hate to piss on anyone’s chip but that’s how it is now . They have had so many open goals but still there has been no shift in the polling . No significant one to warrant a new ref . This thread is just a revolving door of comments. 

[AyrJambo]

3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The snp have ensured that the games up the pole for independence 

 

No matter how much you wish this to be the case or how many times you say this....

 

It is not the case

[Lord Montpelier]

15 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The snp have ensured that the games up the pole for independence 

You can't say that on here, the snp and independence are not the same thing. Apparently. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

You can't say that on here, the snp and independence are not the same thing. Apparently. 

I Ken , that’s some spin ! 😂

[AyrJambo]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

You can't say that on here, the snp and independence are not the same thing. Apparently. 

 

The SNP will tell you that independence is the SNP and the SNP is independence

The gullible will probably believe them

 

Aside from at least 3 other political parties there are also...

 

All Under One Banner

Christians for Independence

Constitution for Scotland

Fife Plus for Independence

Liberation Scotland / SNC Steering Group

NHS for Yes

Peoples Assembly Scotland

Pensioners for Indy

Perth & Kinross Hub

Salvo Scotland

Scottish Currency Group

Scottish Independence Foundation

Scottish Sovereignty Research Group

Yes Edinburgh & Lothians

Yes for EU

Yes Highlands & Islands

Yes North East

National Yes Registry

SNP Trade Union Group

Vive Ecosse

[lost in space]

39 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

The SNP will tell you that independence is the SNP and the SNP is independence

The gullible will probably believe them

 

Aside from at least 3 other political parties there are also...

 

All Under One Banner

Christians for Independence

Constitution for Scotland

Fife Plus for Independence

Liberation Scotland / SNC Steering Group

NHS for Yes

Peoples Assembly Scotland

Pensioners for Indy

Perth & Kinross Hub

Salvo Scotland

Scottish Currency Group

Scottish Independence Foundation

Scottish Sovereignty Research Group

Yes Edinburgh & Lothians

Yes for EU

Yes Highlands & Islands

Yes North East

National Yes Registry

SNP Trade Union Group

Vive Ecosse

Using "rough"recent polls - SNP has 39% of vote and Indy is wished by 53% - so you are right - many (14%) want Indy but don't want SNP.

So, what "route to goal" do you see happening? And what is timescale?

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Using "rough"recent polls - SNP has 39% of vote and Indy is wished by 53% - so you are right - many (14%) want Indy but don't want SNP.

So, what "route to goal" do you see happening? And what is timescale?

It’s an odd paradox that as you say many want Indy but don’t like the SNP . They clearly are doing something wrong . 

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Desire for independence is still there, going by how well Yes is consistently polling, so wouldn't disagree with you there.

 

I just think that the whole country (UK & Scotland) is in such a state that the short term economic recovery and reestablishing of infrastructure, public services etc is at the front of more peoples priorities than independence.  One could argue that independence would bring us this, but as you say that is a tough one to convince the majority of voters.

 

Again, fair point and due to the skepticism surrounding that issue, given cost of living etc who would really want to take that risk?

 

I voted yes in 2014, but my view was that had Yes won, things would have been tough, economically, in the short term.

Buried among the goading bottery you do occasionally do come across grown up and sensible posts like this 👍. 

I'd rather independence was parked for a while to see if any kind of working relationship can be fostered with an incoming labour government who for all their blandness will at least try to govern with some consideration for the national interest and try and see if they can salvage something from the wreckage. 

If there is still enough support after a term of labour in charge then I can see a case for another referendum. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

My name sake minus one J is not reading the room as per usual . Or deliberately distorting others analysis.  Nearly everyone on this is saying they might accept Indy if the current Govt even attempted to Govern within our fiscal levers and concentrated on the economy , homelessness , the nhs etc instead of cultural wars shit like gender ideology which only appears to oddballs in the Green Party and some in the SNP who have been captured . Good attempt at gaslighting though dear . 

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s an odd paradox that as you say many want Indy but don’t like the SNP . They clearly are doing something wrong . 

Well, that's a bit of a crazy theory but it's possible I suppose.........

[Ulysses]

28 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Buried among the goading bottery you do occasionally do come across grown up and sensible posts like this 👍. 

I'd rather independence was parked for a while to see if any kind of working relationship can be fostered with an incoming labour government who for all their blandness will at least try to govern with some consideration for the national interest and try and see if they can salvage something from the wreckage. 

If there is still enough support after a term of labour in charge then I can see a case for another referendum. 

 

@Boris has always been a sound poster, whether agreeing with others or not, and to be honest a majority of contributors to political threads, regardless of their opinions, would do well to take a leaf out of his book.  

 

As for what you've said, I think the SNP went into the referendum campaign not really thinking it would be won, but when the polls showed the margins tightening they started to believe it was possible - and then were deflated and "punch drunk" when the result came in.  For that reason, they had no strategy for "an alternative win" - for building a case to win over another few percent of the electorate, for developing a better and stronger devolution settlement, or for devising some new and different strategy to win a future referendum.  They stalled instead of keeping momentum going.  And even if we accept that the SNP isn't the only political driving force for Scottish independence, we have to accept that it's the biggest, so once it lost its sense of direction and momentum the whole project did likewise.

 

Also, I don't think seeking another referendum with a Yes/No to independence is the right strategy, just as it wasn't in 2011 and after.  Support and opposition are broadly static, and a referendum on the same terms as 2014 is likely to result in a similar result to 2014.

 

So the right approach for the SNP is to figure out how to develop and implement policies in Scotland  coupled with a better relationship with Westminster, in a way that improves people's lot in Scotland in the current constitutional configuration.  At the same time, the SNP needs to sit down, by itself or with other "independence minded" political and civil society actors, and conduct a searching and honest examination of how they can advance their cause.

 

With that in mind, I'm not sure they have the strategic energy and momentum to do both.  In other words, they can do a bit of the governance work if/when Labour takes office, but I think a spell in Opposition might be in order so that they can get their thinking caps on regarding the future of the independence agenda.  Also, I'm not sure their current leader is up to the task of leading the kind of self-evaluation that's needed.  Mind you, I've no idea if Kate Forbes would have been either, and no idea who'll lead the SNP whenever Humza Yousaf stands down.

[Lord Montpelier]

2 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 

The SNP will tell you that independence is the SNP and the SNP is independence

The gullible will probably believe them

 

Aside from at least 3 other political parties there are also...

 

All Under One Banner

Christians for Independence

Constitution for Scotland

Fife Plus for Independence

Liberation Scotland / SNC Steering Group

NHS for Yes

Peoples Assembly Scotland

Pensioners for Indy

Perth & Kinross Hub

Salvo Scotland

Scottish Currency Group

Scottish Independence Foundation

Scottish Sovereignty Research Group

Yes Edinburgh & Lothians

Yes for EU

Yes Highlands & Islands

Yes North East

National Yes Registry

SNP Trade Union Group

Vive Ecosse

Right now, like it or not, to your Average Joe, Humza Yousaf is the figurehead of the independence movement.

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

@Boris has always been a sound poster, whether agreeing with others or not, and to be honest a majority of contributors to political threads, regardless of their opinions, would do well to take a leaf out of his book.  

 

As for what you've said, I think the SNP went into the referendum campaign not really thinking it would be won, but when the polls showed the margins tightening they started to believe it was possible - and then were deflated and "punch drunk" when the result came in.  For that reason, they had no strategy for "an alternative win" - for building a case to win over another few percent of the electorate, for developing a better and stronger devolution settlement, or for devising some new and different strategy to win a future referendum.  They stalled instead of keeping momentum going.  And even if we accept that the SNP isn't the only political driving force for Scottish independence, we have to accept that it's the biggest, so once it lost its sense of direction and momentum the whole project did likewise.

 

Also, I don't think seeking another referendum with a Yes/No to independence is the right strategy, just as it wasn't in 2011 and after.  Support and opposition are broadly static, and a referendum on the same terms as 2014 is likely to result in a similar result to 2014.

 

So the right approach for the SNP is to figure out how to develop and implement policies in Scotland  coupled with a better relationship with Westminster, in a way that improves people's lot in Scotland in the current constitutional configuration.  At the same time, the SNP needs to sit down, by itself or with other "independence minded" political and civil society actors, and conduct a searching and honest examination of how they can advance their cause.

 

With that in mind, I'm not sure they have the strategic energy and momentum to do both.  In other words, they can do a bit of the governance work if/when Labour takes office, but I think a spell in Opposition might be in order so that they can get their thinking caps on regarding the future of the independence agenda.  Also, I'm not sure their current leader is up to the task of leading the kind of self-evaluation that's needed.  Mind you, I've no idea if Kate Forbes would have been either, and no idea who'll lead the SNP whenever Humza Yousaf stands down.

He made a lot of good points. 

I think that the SNP did a fairly decent job of government at first and while dealing with a relatively moderate WM I think they showed competence.  If Brexit hadn't happened that may well have continued and I doubt a second referendum would have got any serious traction but it was indeed a material change of circumstances and gave credibility to indyref2. They couldn't help themselves to rise to it when Johnson took over and the banditry got serious. 

What doesn't get much coverage was the the decision to introduce a Scottish Social Security service in response to austerity. I think that was a necessary evil tbh but for good or ill it has put a lot of pressure on an administration with limited revenue raising powers and the mess Truss made of the UK economy makes that an even bigger challenge to make it work without paralysing everything else.  Looking for causes that are of limited interest to the wider population doesn't help either and only stirs up the frothers and creates unnecessary distraction. 

FWIW, I'd just like to see some stability after 16 years of political and financial chaos. That probably means a return to minority govt in Holyrood and hopefully the Tories down south will tear up their own arsehole so much that the Scottish Tories disown them and we get some form of moderate, grown up consensual politics back. 

I'm thoroughly scunnered with what we've been served up and just want to see governments in both capitals get back to getting the basics right. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

4 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No matter how much you wish this to be the case or how many times you say this....

 

It is not the case

Any word on reparations yet? 

[AyrJambo]

5 hours ago, lost in space said:

Using "rough"recent polls - SNP has 39% of vote and Indy is wished by 53% - so you are right - many (14%) want Indy but don't want SNP.

So, what "route to goal" do you see happening? And what is timescale?

 

As I posted earlier in the thread...

 

The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations

 

Once a settlement has been agreed then a confirmatory referendum to be held in Scotland, by Holyrood, with a franchise that takes some account of nationality and residency - e.g  you were born here, one of your parents or grandparents were born here or you have had your main residence here for perhaps 10 years

 

3 hours ago, lost in space said:

Well, that's a bit of a crazy theory but it's possible I suppose.........

 

Not crazy at all

 

The SNP have lost many thousands of members and who knows how many voters but most of those people still want independence

They won't vote SNP though because they don't believe the SNP are a vehicle to independence or they cannot reconcile the batshit gender policies currently being forced through by the party and their Green puppermasters

 

[John Findlay]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

As I posted earlier in the thread...

 

The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations

 

Once a settlement has been agreed then a confirmatory referendum to be held in Scotland, by Holyrood, with a franchise that takes some account of nationality and residency - e.g  you were born here, one of your parents or grandparents were born here or you have had your main residence here for perhaps 10 years

 

 

Not crazy at all

 

The SNP have lost many thousands of members and who knows how many voters but most of those people still want independence

They won't vote SNP though because they don't believe the SNP are a vehicle to independence or they cannot reconcile the batshit gender policies currently being forced through by the party and their Green puppermasters

 

So who steps up to the independence plate?

[AyrJambo]

8 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Desire for independence is still there, going by how well Yes is consistently polling, so wouldn't disagree with you there.

 

I just think that the whole country (UK & Scotland) is in such a state that the short term economic recovery and reestablishing of infrastructure, public services etc is at the front of more peoples priorities than independence.  One could argue that independence would bring us this, but as you say that is a tough one to convince the majority of voters.

 

Again, fair point and due to the skepticism surrounding that issue, given cost of living etc who would really want to take that risk?

 

I voted yes in 2014, but my view was that had Yes won, things would have been tough, economically, in the short term.

 

A measured view but the danger in postponing independence until the conditions are ideal is that the conditions are never ideal

The mantra at the moment is "time for a change" but in my view replacing the blue tories with the red tories is like applying a sticking plaster to a gaping, blood-gushing wound

It won't change anything and as in the past, the tories will return to power and the whole sorry cycle will repeat ad nauseum with the establishment elites lining their pockets and feathering their nests no matter who is in power in the UK

 

It is tough to convince the majority of voters - many don't take much of an interest in politics until there is an election campaign and those are largely run on slogans and soundbites and to an agenda driven by the media moguls and big business

But just because it is tough shouldn't mean you stop arguing the case and settle for something less than what you want because there may be some risk

There is risk in every endeavour not least the risk to Scottish society and well-being by continuing as a subordinate partner in a corrupt union

 

If you want to be independent (who doesn't) then take responsibility and make it work, address the issues, solve the problems as does every other country in the world

 

[AyrJambo]

26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

So who steps up to the independence plate?

 

Who indeed?

 

We are crying out for leadership, political leadership but I don't see that emerging from any of the political parties currently touting for votes as they are largely populated now by party career drones who have little life experience outside of party machines

Salvo and Liberation.scot offer the most hope

 

Nae gods and precious few heroes

 

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, AyrJambo said:

 

A measured view but the danger in postponing independence until the conditions are ideal is that the conditions are never ideal

The mantra at the moment is "time for a change" but in my view replacing the blue tories with the red tories is like applying a sticking plaster to a gaping, blood-gushing wound

It won't change anything and as in the past, the tories will return to power and the whole sorry cycle will repeat ad nauseum with the establishment elites lining their pockets and feathering their nests no matter who is in power in the UK

 

It is tough to convince the majority of voters - many don't take much of an interest in politics until there is an election campaign and those are largely run on slogans and soundbites and to an agenda driven by the media moguls and big business

But just because it is tough shouldn't mean you stop arguing the case and settle for something less than what you want because there may be some risk

There is risk in every endeavour not least the risk to Scottish society and well-being by continuing as a subordinate partner in a corrupt union

 

If you want to be independent (who doesn't) then take responsibility and make it work, address the issues, solve the problems as does every other country in the world

 

 

I hear what you're saying, but the point I made earlier does still hold, in fairness.  The independence ambition is at best treading water or at worse has lost direction and impetus.  Meanwhile its main political champions have themselves lost direction and momentum for different reasons.  How do you realistically get the independence project back on track?  How do you energise and motivate those who say they want it to happen while also opening up discussion and consideration for those who say they don't?  Because if you don't do those two things, I don't see the situation changing any time soon.

 

(I don't mean you personally, I mean those who are seeking to promote independence.)

[AyrJambo]

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

So the right approach for the SNP is to figure out how to develop and implement policies in Scotland  coupled with a better relationship with Westminster, in a way that improves people's lot in Scotland in the current constitutional configuration.  At the same time, the SNP needs to sit down, by itself or with other "independence minded" political and civil society actors, and conduct a searching and honest examination of how they can advance their cause

 

Totally agree with the approach you outline but sadly I don't think the SNP are interested anymore

They have settled for running a devolved administration (badly) and with no vision as long as the short money (a bribe in their case) keeps rolling in from Westminster

They really only talk about independence now when they need votes

 

I think any searching and honest examination will come not from political parties but other "independence-minded" organisations and one thing they must do is to educate people on the true nature of constitutional politics in the UK

The UK likes to keep people ignorant while it operates in the shadows and most people in Scotland don't know their own history or constitution

 

For instance it is the Crown in England which, by (unlawfully) assuming rights in Scotland enables resources to be plundered

The Scottish crown is a very different beast and has in fact been vacant since 1702 when Anne was the last monarch to take the Scottish coronation oath

 

 

[Ked]

8 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

They royally hibsd it . I hate to piss on anyone’s chip but that’s how it is now . They have had so many open goals but still there has been no shift in the polling . No significant one to warrant a new ref . This thread is just a revolving door of comments. 

Another football reference.

 

So many open goals.

Yet you forget those and go after performance.

 

Seriously if you believed in it and you cite open goals wtf?

Can understand the snp but open goals and you're choosing the ones who have the open goals.

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

Another football reference.

 

So many open goals.

Yet you forget those and go after performance.

 

Seriously if you believed in it and you cite open goals wtf?

Can understand the snp but open goals and you're choosing the ones who have the open goals.

Eh ?

🤣🥰

[Ulysses]

26 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Totally agree with the approach you outline but sadly I don't think the SNP are interested anymore

They have settled for running a devolved administration (badly) and with no vision as long as the short money (a bribe in their case) keeps rolling in from Westminster

They really only talk about independence now when they need votes

 

I think any searching and honest examination will come not from political parties but other "independence-minded" organisations and one thing they must do is to educate people on the true nature of constitutional politics in the UK

The UK likes to keep people ignorant while it operates in the shadows and most people in Scotland don't know their own history or constitution

 

For instance it is the Crown in England which, by (unlawfully) assuming rights in Scotland enables resources to be plundered

The Scottish crown is a very different beast and has in fact been vacant since 1702 when Anne was the last monarch to take the Scottish coronation oath

 

 

 

I'm not sure that seeking to "educate people" would be the right strategy.  I mean, it might be a good educational strategy, but I'd be less convinced of it as a way to win hearts and minds.

 

Not for the first time, I'm going to say that there is a reasonably strong conservative streak in the Scottish body politic, and unfortunately it doesn't get enough of an airing in the current constitutional and political setup.  It means that there is no visible sign of a centre-right vision for Scottish independence - a "Conservative and Nationalist" counterpoint to the "Conservative and Unionist" one.  I think the concept of independence would be enriched by the presence of a centre-right party that was also committed to Scottish independence, rather than what you have at the moment which is the SNP trying to be the independence "broad church" that covers all the political bases.  By the way, I'm saying that as someone who doesn't vote for conservative parties and policies.  But lots of people do, and right now, people are being sold the idea that in order to buy into independence you also have to buy into the SNP and a political spectrum that starts in the middle and tries to work its way left from there.  Meanwhile, what if you're an economic conservative, or maybe socially conservative, but you're Scottish AF?  Where's your political home?  I think having two "indy" options, one centre-left and the other centre-right, would animate and energise the independence agenda.  Of course, it may well energise and animate the anti-independence and devolution concepts as well, but that's just the price of good active political discourse.  Let those parties co-operate on advancing the claim to independence, but let them go their separate ways and seek to co-operate with other parties on developing and implementing government programmes and policies in Scotland.

 

Conservative hearts and minds might not be all that popular among some or many SNP and independence supporters, but some or more of them need to be won over and persuaded that an independent Scotland has something to offer them.  

[Ulysses]

16 minutes ago, Ked said:

Eh ?

🤣🥰

 

Would you vote for a Scottish "Conservative and National" political party?

[manaliveits105]

Separatists full of shit ! 
SNP and Green ministers have been accused of presiding over “fiefdoms of filth” after new data revealed sewage being dumped for thousands of hours in their backyards.

The Lib Dems said their new “sewage league table” showed filthy wastewater had spewed into Public Health Minister Jenni Minto’s Argyll and Bute constituency for more than 22,000 hours in 2023.

In second place, environment chief Mairi McAllan saw sewage piped into the environment in her Clydesdale constituency for a shocking 19,550 hours last year.

Greens minister Patrick Harvie saw the greatest volume of sewage dumps, with 6,363,898 m³ of waste pumped into waters in his Glasgow region, the equivalent of 2500 Olympic swimming pools.

[Konrad von Carstein]

11 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Right now, like it or not, to me, MAI105, the opinion weathervane and the rest of us unionists on this thread, Humza Yousaf is the figurehead of the independence movement.

 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Separatists full of shit ! 
SNP and Green ministers have been accused of presiding over “fiefdoms of filth” after new data revealed sewage being dumped for thousands of hours in their backyards.

The Lib Dems said their new “sewage league table” showed filthy wastewater had spewed into Public Health Minister Jenni Minto’s Argyll and Bute constituency for more than 22,000 hours in 2023.

In second place, environment chief Mairi McAllan saw sewage piped into the environment in her Clydesdale constituency for a shocking 19,550 hours last year.

Greens minister Patrick Harvie saw the greatest volume of sewage dumps, with 6,363,898 m³ of waste pumped into waters in his Glasgow region, the equivalent of 2500 Olympic swimming pools.

They should make wee Paddy go clean it all up with a straw. 

[TallPaul]

14 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 

The SNP will tell you that independence is the SNP and the SNP is independence

The gullible will probably believe them

 

Aside from at least 3 other political parties there are also...

 

All Under One Banner

Christians for Independence

Constitution for Scotland

Fife Plus for Independence

Liberation Scotland / SNC Steering Group

NHS for Yes

Peoples Assembly Scotland

Pensioners for Indy

Perth & Kinross Hub

Salvo Scotland

Scottish Currency Group

Scottish Independence Foundation

Scottish Sovereignty Research Group

Yes Edinburgh & Lothians

Yes for EU

Yes Highlands & Islands

Yes North East

National Yes Registry

SNP Trade Union Group

Vive Ecosse

You forgot to mention the Scottish Resistance.

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

You forgot to mention the Scottish Resistance.

I live in Fife (someone has to) and looked up Fife Plus for Independence from AJs list as I'd never heard of them. Just for giggles. 

 

114 facebook members. Probably mostly pensioners. Vive la Revolution.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Separatists full of shit ! 
SNP and Green ministers have been accused of presiding over “fiefdoms of filth” after new data revealed sewage being dumped for thousands of hours in their backyards.

The Lib Dems said their new “sewage league table” showed filthy wastewater had spewed into Public Health Minister Jenni Minto’s Argyll and Bute constituency for more than 22,000 hours in 2023.

In second place, environment chief Mairi McAllan saw sewage piped into the environment in her Clydesdale constituency for a shocking 19,550 hours last year.

Greens minister Patrick Harvie saw the greatest volume of sewage dumps, with 6,363,898 m³ of waste pumped into waters in his Glasgow region, the equivalent of 2500 Olympic swimming pools.

How appropriate that the greens are full of filth ! 

[Konrad von Carstein]

11 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I live in Fife (someone has to) and looked up Fife Plus for Independence from AJs list as I'd never heard of them. Just for giggles. 

 

114 facebook members. Probably mostly pensioners. Vive la Revolution.  

Hi neebs 

[JudyJudyJudy]

34 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Hi neebs 

Your back ? I missed you . Been too long . 😝

[JudyJudyJudy]

47 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I live in Fife (someone has to) and looked up Fife Plus for Independence from AJs list as I'd never heard of them. Just for giggles. 

 

114 facebook members. Probably mostly pensioners. Vive la Revolution.  

I love Fife . Used to visit Dunfermline a lot . 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Harvey and slater have walked out of the Emergency meeting at Bute House, have they been thrown out, or walked?

[Hagar the Horrible]

Harvey said he would quit if party ended the power sharing agreement.......GOOD!

[Lord Montpelier]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Hi neebs 

Fife For Life 

[Hagar the Horrible]

FM questions will be good, Im off for some popcorn,  Shame I am working from home or I would have watched it