Doubts over stadium

[jamboinglasgow]

According to the planning dept at the Council - the application was one of the most thorough and professional applications they have received on anything of this scale.

 

Maybe it will never happen but a whole lot of time, effort and money has been spent getting us to this stage. Also more importantly one of the stumbling blocks looks like it has been resolved - taken from today's evening Hobo.

 

It is understood a tripartite agreement has now been reached between the club, the city council and North British Distillers over the removal of the whisky from the bonds in Wheatfield Street.

 

May I ask something, why do we have to remove the whisky if that is on the wheatfield side and Roseburn side? Surely that would have no bearing on the main stand. Or is it that they feel its a risk for the ground that needs to be removed?

[ando]

May I ask something, why do we have to remove the whisky if that is on the wheatfield side and Roseburn side? Surely that would have no bearing on the main stand. Or is it that they feel its a risk for the ground that needs to be removed?

 

i think it has to do with the COMMA regulations for the .storage of flammable liquids

[PTBCAL]

i think it has to do with the COMMA regulations for the .storage of flammable liquids

 

Correct.

 

H&S have approved the plans in principle as well.

 

If VR is only pulling the wool over our eyes on this one then there must be easier and cheaper ways to do so.

[doctor jambo]

Correct.

 

H&S have approved the plans in principle as well.

 

If VR is only pulling the wool over our eyes on this one then there must be easier and cheaper ways to do so.

 

 

VR does not need to pull the wool over anyones eyes

- he has us by the plums

He can do what he wants from hundreds of miles away and it will have no effect on him whatsoever that the fans get annoyed

HE appears to be determined to do this

[redm]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

 

The artist impressions on the UBIG and Hearts websites are nothing more than fanciful impressions and are similar to drawings in kiddies bedtime story books.

 

This mob have little or no previous in delivering stadium construction projects and it's simply fanciful thinking on their/our part that this will come together.

 

We're the wrong side of ?38M in debt and are looking to borrow an unbeknown amount over and above this (?51M was previously stated but would be 2 years out of date if/when development begins).

 

These reports aren't without credence and the alarm bells should be ringing.

 

There's more negativity than positives and the AGM should make for some interesting retorts to the position.

 

 

Utter tripe.

[the voice from above]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

 

The artist impressions on the UBIG and Hearts websites are nothing more than fanciful impressions and are similar to drawings in kiddies bedtime story books.

 

This mob have little or no previous in delivering stadium construction projects and it's simply fanciful thinking on their/our part that this will come together.

 

We're the wrong side of ?38M in debt and are looking to borrow an unbeknown amount over and above this (?51M was previously stated but would be 2 years out of date if/when development begins).

 

These reports aren't without credence and the alarm bells should be ringing.

 

There's more negativity than positives and the AGM should make for some interesting retorts to the position.

 

I may be wrong but didn't the tractor boys of minsk (MTZ) get a new stadium thanks to our imperious leader...

[Ray Winstone]

I guess all we can do is wait and see what happens!

 

I still dont think the development of the stadium will happen - but I would be happy to be proved wrong!

[PTBCAL]

VR does not need to pull the wool over anyones eyes

- he has us by the plums

He can do what he wants from hundreds of miles away and it will have no effect on him whatsoever that the fans get annoyed

HE appears to be determined to do this

 

Think you may have mis-understand my point.

 

If he is not going to build it (and he may not) he and others are spending a hell of time, effort and money for nothing.

[SUTOL]

Ukios Bankos shares have been taking quite a tumble in the last couple of months.

 

Jan 22nd their share price was about 2.91 ltl. Today it is about 3.19 ltl.

 

Around the same time HBOS were about 630p they are now today about 507p.

 

Which one has taken the tumble?

 

Are you spreading bad news and worries about HBOS?

[jkato]

I may be wrong but didn't the tractor boys of minsk (MTZ) get a new stadium thanks to our imperious leader...

 

Not according to the UBIG website. Their stadium is at exactly the same stage as ours......

 

.....nice pics, shame about the bricks.

[John Findlay]

My first reaction on seeing this as the front page headline of the Evening News was. Why? Is it a story deserving of the front page? My answer now is the same as a couple of hours ago. No. Never in a million years.

 

Scaremongering pure and simple.

 

 

 

John

[the voice from above]

Not according to the UBIG website. Their stadium is at exactly the same stage as ours......

 

.....nice pics, shame about the bricks.

 

I stand corrected... At least they're adept at drawing pictures...

 

Makes you wonder hwat the MTZ fans think of our Vladamir

[Mon]

Jan 22nd their share price was about 2.91 ltl. Today it is about 3.19 ltl.

 

Around the same time HBOS were about 630p they are now today about 507p.

 

Which one has taken the tumble?

 

Are you spreading bad news and worries about HBOS?

 

The last time I looked (not today) the price had fallen in the last month.

 

I've had another look. Doesn't look as good as you are saying:

 

http://www.baltic.omxnordicexchange.com/market/?instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&pg=details&tab=historical&lang=en&currency=0&date=&period=6months&start_d=9&start_m=10&start_y=2007&end_d=9&end_m=4&end_y=2008&period=year

[SUTOL]

The last time I looked (not today) the price had fallen in the last month.

 

It has, all banks have, to a greater or lesser extent, had losses on share value over the last 6+ months.

 

My point being Ukio don't appear to be suffering as much as others, and have also recently posted improved year on year profits for the last quarter.

 

So I don't really understand what point you are trying to make

[SUTOL]

I've had another look. Doesn't look as good as you are saying:

 

http://www.baltic.omxnordicexchange.com/market/?instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&pg=details&tab=historical&lang=en&currency=0&date=&period=6months&start_d=9&start_m=10&start_y=2007&end_d=9&end_m=4&end_y=2008&period=year

 

It shows exactly what I said.

 

But compare that with HBOS or RBS

and it isn't as bad. Both of them have lost around 50% of their share value, Ukio is only about 25%.

[269miles]

Source says the cooncil are 'furious' about the delay in starting work on the nursery aspects. Wow , I'm gutted for them. It must be hard work running Edinburgh Cooncil these days if they're all getting worked up over the nursery.

 

Then the 'source' says there are a load of other issues only BF doesn't say what they are but presumably these are not making the cooncil 'furious' as the 'source' doesn't say what they are. What a load of absolute keech. Anybody on JKB could have written that world exclusive.

[Independence]

Yet another scare mongering nonsense from the Hibsman publications!!!!

 

I only bought the EEN because the billboards in Edinburgh were screaming out that there are problems with the new stand progressing!!!

 

Having now read the article which says ABSOLUTELY nothing. I have sent it to the bin where it belongs. It will be a long time before I buy another EEN!!!!!

 

The bottom line is that there is no football stories about the famous JT's today as they weren't playing at the weekend. As a result sales suffer on a Monday. With no other major news, the story hit the front page.

 

What a disgrace, journalism at its worst!!!!!

[Dr. Bapswent]

Utter tripe.

 

You cant say tripe on here...youll get in trouble....oh wait.

[Deevers]

Source says the cooncil are 'furious' about the delay in starting work on the nursery aspects. Wow , I'm gutted for them. It must be hard work running Edinburgh Cooncil these days if they're all getting worked up over the nursery.

 

Then the 'source' says there are a load of other issues only BF doesn't say what they are but presumably these are not making the cooncil 'furious' as the 'source' doesn't say what they are. What a load of absolute keech. Anybody on JKB could have written that world exclusive.

 

On a Quiet News Day" what better for the Hootsman and Erin Evening News to print a negative story about Hearts backed up by supposedly credible but unnamed sources. The News in particular is about as reliable as Football Rumours. I ceased believing anything that's written in either of these publications about Hearts - they should look out if there is a credibility gap appearing in the sports journalism and that is spilling over on to suppposedly news articles I can see their circulation figures starting to plummet.

[Ellycopter]

Now I don't know if the doubts expressed in these articles are founded or not but given that it's season ticket renewal time, was there ever any doubt that Romanov would issue a rebuutal?

 

When was the last time we heard an straightforward, unambiguous statement from Vlad or his henchmen?

 

Oh yes, on January 1st we were told that a new manager would be sought to stop our slide down the league.

 

It's April 14th now and we're still sliding.

 

I know I know, we're waiting on McGhee.

 

It's very hard not to believe that promises about a new manager and a new stand are just another case of more jam tomorrow.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I would presume the Henchman who authorised the clubs statement was the MD campbell ogilvie as per his job.

I wish people would stop talking about our club as if it were run by nazi germany and they were a voice over for a ww2 pathe news reel.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

What is wrong with todays report?

 

At least someone out there is giving us an "update" on progress(??)

 

Instead of all the smart - aleks of JKB who are happy to ridicule any heretical anti-Vlad propaganda.

 

We are still living in a democracy, the last time I looked.

 

You are all sh*tting yourselves really arent you? I mean, the "stadium" is the last refuge of the Vladsheep...

[Rabbie_Burns]

Now I don't know if the doubts expressed in these articles are founded or not but given that it's season ticket renewal time, was there ever any doubt that Romanov would issue a rebuutal?

 

When was the last time we heard an straightforward, unambiguous statement from Vlad or his henchmen?

 

Oh yes, on January 1st we were told that a new manager would be sought to stop our slide down the league.

 

It's April 14th now and we're still sliding.

 

I know I know, we're waiting on McGhee.

 

It's very hard not to believe that promises about a new manager and a new stand are just another case of more jam tomorrow.

 

and more tripe from you...

[PTBCAL]

What is wrong with todays report?

 

At least someone out there is giving us an "update" on progress(??)

 

Instead of all the smart - aleks of JKB who are happy to ridicule any heretical anti-Vlad propaganda.

 

We are still living in a democracy, the last time I looked.

 

You are all sh*tting yourselves really arent you? I mean, the "stadium" is the last refuge of the Vladsheep...

 

Yes and likewise you must be sh*tting yourself in case Hearts do something that goes a long way to secure their long term future.

 

What a fine example of a Hearts fan you are.

[portobellojambo1]

The Club may be on track (sic), but what about the fecking stadium ?

 

I think you are getting the stadium project and the tram project mixed up, all these references to tracks. And please refer to it as oor fecking stadium, not the.

[PTBCAL]

What is wrong with todays report?

 

At least someone out there is giving us an "update" on progress(??)

 

Instead of all the smart - aleks of JKB who are happy to ridicule any heretical anti-Vlad propaganda.

 

We are still living in a democracy, the last time I looked.

 

You are all sh*tting yourselves really arent you? I mean, the "stadium" is the last refuge of the Vladsheep...

 

The only progress I saw in both articles today was the confirmation that an agreement had been reached between the Distillers, Council and Hearts. This was probably the main stumbling block still left.

 

Bet you almost spewed when you read that.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Yes and likewise you must be sh*tting yourself in case Hearts do something that goes a long way to secure their long term future.

 

What a fine example of a Hearts fan you are.

 

Certainly one who has a wit of intelligence to see that trading out of ?36m rising to ?80m is an impossibility.

 

But I suppose your mate Vlad, like Keyser Soze, can just make it all disappear, eh?

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

The only progress I saw in both articles today was the confirmation that an agreement had been reached between the Distillers, Council and Hearts. This was probably the main stumbling block still left.

 

Bet you almost spewed when you read that.

 

...and where is this ?51m coming from?

 

Still absolutely no word on exactly where the cash is coming from...

 

Christ, no wonder we are a laughing stock with gullible people like you supporting us.

[bighusref]

As much as I would like to blame the EEN, IMO doubts about our stand will continue to pop up, from Hibs fans, from Hearts fans, from the press up until the very first brick is put down on the new stand.

 

I personally think it will be built but everytime a deadline or suggested timeline passes, doubt springs up from somewhere.

[portobellojambo1]

...and where is this ?51m coming from?

 

Still absolutely no word on exactly where the cash is coming from...

 

Christ, no wonder we are a laughing stock with gullible people like you supporting us.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1218133,00.html

 

The relevant section is as follows -

 

How will the development of the Main Stand be financed? Will any debt be added to Heart of Midlothian Football Club's balance sheet or will the project be financed by UBIG? If the latter, will ownership of the Stadium or just the new buildings transfer to UBIG?

 

The debt for the development of the Main Stand will be added to the Club's existing debt however this should not be a concern to supporters as there will be no problem with us dealing with this situation.

 

 

Trust us to deliver.

 

 

So the building work is either not going to begin for an awful long time, as the accounts which will take in the likes of Craig Gordon's sale etc. will not be presented until around this time 2009, or on Friday the shareholders are going to be asked for their permission to allow Hearts debt to go rather high, or low, depending on which angle you view it from.

[PTBCAL]

Certainly one who has a wit of intelligence to see that trading out of ?36m rising to ?80m is an impossibility.

 

But I suppose your mate Vlad, like Keyser Soze, can just make it all disappear, eh?

 

I think you logged on to the wrong site. This is a Hearts site.

 

You should be on as*wipes.net - (I understand you are a life member).

[PTBCAL]

...and where is this ?51m coming from?

 

Still absolutely no word on exactly where the cash is coming from...

 

Christ, no wonder we are a laughing stock with gullible people like you supporting us.

 

Please refrain from using us when talking supporting Hearts. Sorry but you wouldn't even come close to my support for Hearts.

 

Jog on.

[PTBCAL]

As much as I would like to blame the EEN, IMO doubts about our stand will continue to pop up, from Hibs fans, from Hearts fans, from the press up until the very first brick is put down on the new stand.

 

I personally think it will be built but everytime a deadline or suggested timeline passes, doubt springs up from somewhere.

 

The actual timeline hasn't moved - completion date Dec 2010.

 

The starting date has - and I agree it puts seeds of doubt into everyone minds.

 

3 potential stumbling blocks stood in our way.....

 

Chemical Vats - HS have given Hearts the green light by H&S and the Police.

 

Whisky VATs - agreement been reached re removal.

 

Nursery - Hearts have to build a replacement for the current one - the funds should have been made available by now to do so but it hasn't happened. The actual number of objections Hearts received to the whole redevelopment was 17 - all from the nursery. The Cannongate project has received 3,000 and rising.

 

I honestly believe that it will get built - If VR wants it to happen. The council are very keen for it to happen but getting frustrated at the speed Hearts are doing things.

 

Bit like our hunt for a new manager....

[Commander Harris]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article3747707.ece

[bighusref]

The actual timeline hasn't moved - completion date Dec 2010.

 

The starting date has - and I agree it puts seeds of doubt into everyone minds.

 

3 potential stumbling blocks stood in our way.....

 

Chemical Vats - HS have given Hearts the green light by H&S and the Police.

 

Whisky VATs - agreement been reached re removal.

 

Nursery - Hearts have to build a replacement for the current one - the funds should have been made available by now to do so but it hasn't happened. The actual number of objections Hearts received to the whole redevelopment was 17 - all from the nursery. The Cannongate project has received 3,000 and rising.

 

I honestly believe that it will get built - If VR wants it to happen. The council are very keen for it to happen but getting frustrated at the speed Hearts are doing things.

 

Bit like our hunt for a new manager....

 

So the timeline HAS changed, if not the projected completion date.

 

I was not saying there was no reason for the delay, I am aware of the reasons. What I was saying is the more reasons that crop up, the more concerns crop up; simple really.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

I think you logged on to the wrong site. This is a Hearts site.

 

You should be on as*wipes.net - (I understand you are a life member).

 

...as opposed to the site you belong to: IlickVladsarse.netforaliving

 

You are a true Jambo, grovel,grovel,creep,creep.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1218133,00.html

 

The relevant section is as follows -

 

How will the development of the Main Stand be financed? Will any debt be added to Heart of Midlothian Football Club's balance sheet or will the project be financed by UBIG? If the latter, will ownership of the Stadium or just the new buildings transfer to UBIG?

 

The debt for the development of the Main Stand will be added to the Club's existing debt however this should not be a concern to supporters as there will be no problem with us dealing with this situation.

 

 

Trust us to deliver.

 

 

So the building work is either not going to begin for an awful long time, as the accounts which will take in the likes of Craig Gordon's sale etc. will not be presented until around this time 2009, or on Friday the shareholders are going to be asked for their permission to allow Hearts debt to go rather high, or low, depending on which angle you view it from.

 

My query was relating to where the money originates from, is there a syndicate involved, who are the backers, what construction company(s) will be used, what safety plans in are in place in case there are any hitches in funding throughout the build, Performance bonds, etc.

 

I suspect no British financial institution would touch this deal with a barge pole so understandably, I would be interested in the thinking of the obviously Eastern European backers reasons for ploughing such an immense sum into Hearts.

 

You are not supposed to ask these questions on JKB, I know.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

My query was relating to where the money originates from, is there a syndicate involved, who are the backers, what construction company(s) will be used, what safety plans in are in place in case there are any hitches in funding throughout the build, Performance bonds, etc.

 

I suspect no British financial institution would touch this deal with a barge pole so understandably, I would be interested in the thinking of the obviously Eastern European backers reasons for ploughing such an immense sum into Hearts.

 

You are not supposed to ask these questions on JKB, I know.

 

Lithuania is part of the EU. If you are suggesting there may be potential 'money laundering' is going on then it is dodgy ground. In saying that, as long as the money is clean by the time it reaches HMFC, I don't really care.

[walton1983]

Not according to the UBIG website. Their stadium is at exactly the same stage as ours......

 

.....nice pics, shame about the bricks.

 

The worrying thing is that on the UBIG site there are three stadium plans and none of them are started.Still think we should be building a normal football stand.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Lithuania is part of the EU. If you are suggesting there may be potential 'money laundering' is going on then it is dodgy ground. In saying that, as long as the money is clean by the time it reaches HMFC, I don't really care.

 

You said this not me.

 

All I would like to know is where the money is coming from since no UK bank would touch such a deal.

 

Why would foreign backers see HMFC as less of a risk than a UK bank?

[Guest casper]

The actual timeline hasn't moved - completion date Dec 2010.

 

The starting date has - and I agree it puts seeds of doubt into everyone minds.

 

3 potential stumbling blocks stood in our way.....

 

Chemical Vats - HS have given Hearts the green light by H&S and the Police.

 

Whisky VATs - agreement been reached re removal.

 

Nursery - Hearts have to build a replacement for the current one - the funds should have been made available by now to do so but it hasn't happened. The actual number of objections Hearts received to the whole redevelopment was 17 - all from the nursery. The Cannongate project has received 3,000 and rising.

 

I honestly believe that it will get built - If VR wants it to happen. The council are very keen for it to happen but getting frustrated at the speed Hearts are doing things.

 

Bit like our hunt for a new manager....

 

Is ?51M not a stumbling block?

Taking our debt to ?80M is total total madness.

[Coco]

Is ?51M not a stumbling block?

Taking our debt to ?80M is total total madness.

 

I think that there is still a lingering idea that 'the money is owed to ourselves, so it is no problem' amongst some fans.

 

The other lingering idea is that the property development will 1) make enough money to gift Hearts the stand and 2) make enough money to make enough money to increase the cash available for players.

[SUTOL]

All I would like to know is where the money is coming from since no UK bank would touch such a deal.

 

Why would foreign backers see HMFC as less of a risk than a UK bank?

 

Who says no UK bank would touch "such a deal"?

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Who says no UK bank would touch "such a deal"?

 

So pre the credit crunch they were queing up were they?

[Guest casper]

Who says no UK bank would touch "such a deal"?

 

HBoS couldn't wait to get out when we were only ?19M in debt.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm more concerned about the amount of money which is going towards *just* 10,000 seats. For the money, I reckon we should be looking for at least 12-15,000, although I dont know if we'd have the space for that.

[redm]

You said this not me.

 

All I would like to know is where the money is coming from since no UK bank would touch such a deal.

 

Why would foreign backers see HMFC as less of a risk than a UK bank?

 

Why wouldn't any UK bank touch it? And why does it have to be a bank anyway for that matter? There are many other avenues open to funding/investment in developments like this.

 

We don't have the answers and that's why we jump to conclusions, but if you're going to do that at least try to see the wider picture and not just the problems that might stand in the way. Maybe we see things differently but at the moment I don't see any reason to freak out about the stadium plans, and I certainly don't think we should be doing so on the basis of what some crappy local rag has decided to print on a slow news day.

[Coco]

HBoS couldn't wait to get out when we were only ?19M in debt.

 

To be fair, that was because they didn't want to be associated with a football club business which makes losses every year.

 

It might mean therefore that similar banks might balk at being associated with a football club business which makes losses every year and which is attached to a speculative and probably loss making office development in Gorgie.

[SUTOL]

So pre the credit crunch they were queing up were they?

 

I have no idea, but you seem to be implying that you know.

 

So which banks don't want anything to do with the project?

Which banks have been approached?

[Jammy T]

Why wouldn't any UK bank touch it? And why does it have to be a bank anyway for that matter? There are many other avenues open to funding/investment in developments like this.

 

.

 

Banks will be reassessing their risk options.

 

Risks re lending to a HMFC - 1. a football club currently in debt will be risky, 2. the management in charge of the development / money spend are unpredictable

 

If you were in charge of lending, say ?35m to Vlad, from a major bank, would you do it?

 

Most of these sort of developments, though - multi-mixed use - would be some sort of joint venture.

 

I dont think for one minute the entity that contracts with the construction guys here will be HMFC or some affiliate. But equally I dont see Vlad walking into an arrangement with a bigger partner he isnt in control of.

 

UBIG will no doubt be one party and I'd imagine some sort of non-UK business contact of Vlads will be the other. If he can avoid having to borrow from a bank all to the good.

 

The main cash rich economy looking for overseas investments at present is China......