Doubts over stadium

[Ryan Gosling]

http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/Delays-and-debt-fuel-fears.3977256.jp

 

Would PTBCAL like to re-assure us?

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The question I'd ask is not about the debt as any stand will come down to whether Vlad/UBIG decides to fund it. The question is why has the council chosen to brief The Hootsmon now about their concerns, given that the proposal was submitted in January?

 

Pardon my cynicism, but given The Hootsmon's previous with relations with HMFC, and the fact that the club were putting out 'feelers' to have a 'constructive' relationship with certain members of the Scottish media, could there have been a breakdown in this relationship causing a backlash? Call in a few favours from a contact off the record and hey presto, a 'story'!

 

When does the council planning department discuss the proposal anyway? Let's hear them on the record rather than off it.

[Commander Harris]

http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/Delays-and-debt-fuel-fears.3977256.jp

 

Would PTBCAL like to re-assure us?

 

"the club is on track"

 

there you go.

[ToadKiller Dog]

The question I'd ask is not about the debt as any stand will come down to whether Vlad/UBIG decides to fund it. The question is why has the council chosen to brief The Hootsmon now about their concerns, given that the proposal was submitted in January?

 

Pardon my cynicism, but given The Hootsmon's previous with relations with HMFC, and the fact that the club were putting out 'feelers' to have a 'constructive' relationship with certain members of the Scottish media, could there have been a breakdown in this relationship causing a backlash? Call in a few favours from a contact off the record and hey presto, a 'story'!

 

When does the council planning department discuss the proposal anyway? Let's hear them on the record rather than off it.

 

Agree with geoff ,why is the councilor not wishing to be named its his job to comment on the record ,he is not a certain lib dem councilor is he?

and should he not be discussing his fears with the club and not mischief making with the Hootsmon?

[ToadKiller Dog]

Also look at there todays vote ,loaded question,stupid question what does the average punter know about emergency requirments .

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

BF is a wind up merchant with little interest in real journalism. Anything will do for him. He's one of the reporters on my work list that we don't speak to because he's happy to twist whatever he gets to turn in a story, irrespective of the facts.

[S.N.T.H.]

Time will tell.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Well seeing as the club need to wait on the council to re-locate the nursery in order to start work, they're not exactly speeding the process up.

[flecktimus]

First things first the planning application should not take any debt of a company into consideration,thats why they wont go on record .The thing is if i could have got a bet on a negative Tynecastle development story today i would have taken the bookies to the cleaners. This story is opportunists journalism at best.

[Guest GhostHunter]

The Club may be on track (sic), but what about the fecking stadium ?

[Sherlock]

It's time the club stopped having anything at all to do with the Scotsman stable, inc. the Evening News and the Scotland on Sunday.

 

Deny them access to Tynecastle and Riccarton in any official capacity and stop commenting on any stories they print.

 

Any future requests for interviews or comments should simply be met with "No Comment".

 

Feck 'em.

[Goldenboy]

A bullsheet non story. No direct quotes from any named source. Oh and of course it just happens to be the agm this week.

[Deek]

http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/Delays-and-debt-fuel-fears.3977256.jp

 

Would PTBCAL like to re-assure us?

 

 

Wonder if this is the same guy.

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11339#post201890

 

http://www.hibs.net/message/showpost.php?p=1566739&postcount=15

 

A shiiete stirrer of the highest order.

[troonjambo]

really poor non story ffs some people are alarmed re hearts level off dedt no **** sherlock

[castlerock]

there are in fact no doubts; the stadium plans as currently proposed, will never happen.

[Sherlock]

there are in fact no doubts; the stadium plans as currently proposed, will never happen.

 

Sniff

[The Real Maroonblood]

Hearts are like an ashtray full of doubts.

[SUTOL]

Have we been granted planning permission for the development?

 

If not, how can they expect us to start without it, if the council were that worried surely they could fast-track the planning application.

[Coco]

There are plenty doubts over the financing of the stadium redevelopment given what is happening in property/banking markets etc.

[Boris]

Sniff

 

Double sniff.

[Ben Dover]

I have 'concerns' about this project too................but that is just a complete non-story. The Scotsman is about as informative as the Viz letters page these days

[davieholt]

There are plenty doubts over the financing of the stadium redevelopment given what is happening in property/banking markets etc.

 

Correct. Property developments across the country may be struggling just now.

 

Call me a cynic but the timing of the fire in the new buidling going up near fester road seemed a coincidence too far ! An old fashioned 'insurance job' ?

[PTBCAL]

My take on this is simple - if Hearts want to build the stadium then the council will not stand in their way. However Hearts must meet their obligations first (nursery, chemical vats, trams etc..).

 

However people within the project (from the Hearts end of things) have questioned the financial viability of the overall re-development and this maybe adds some fuel to the fire.

 

The timescales slipped - but the actual application is pretty much spot on. A few things to change but nothing major espically when you look at the size of the project.

 

Simply from what I hear the only way it will not happen if VR decides not to proceed.

[coppercrutch]

There are plenty doubts over the financing of the stadium redevelopment given what is happening in property/banking markets etc.

 

Spot on IMO.

 

Commercial property is in a mess. Residential property is not far behind. Whether Vlad intends to actually go through with this is in fact secondary of importance. There are far bigger things going on in the World right now that could scupper all his plans.

 

Of any time in the last 15 years to decide to do this development with hearts stadium ? This is probably the worst. By a long, long way.

 

May still work of course. Just depends how smart UBIG/Vlad have been with their money. Considering huge banking/investment companies are writing off $10 billlion here and there on an almost weekly basis? My hopes are not too high.

[PTBCAL]

Have we been granted planning permission for the development?

 

If not, how can they expect us to start without it, if the council were that worried surely they could fast-track the planning application.

 

Assumming HEARTS meet their obligations (nursery, trams, chemical vats) then I have been told permission will be given. August the likely date.

 

In hindsight the article kin of confirms this - the council are angry but are not threatning to refuse permission.

 

The story really tells us that Hearts are running 12 months behind. Shock.

[JohnT74]

 

However people within the project (from the Hearts end of things) have questioned the financial viability of the overall re-development and this maybe adds some fuel to the fire.

 

Simply from what I hear the only way it will not happen if VR decides not to proceed.

 

 

Are Vlad's people advising him not to proceed?

[vegas-voss]

I don't see where that article really tells us anything.I was expected some big huge report instead it's just a short article and a small quote from an unnamed source.

 

Seems to me it has been written to try and spread paranoia

[Coco]

Spot on IMO.

 

Commercial property is in a mess. Residential property is not far behind. Whether Vlad intends to actually go through with this is in fact secondary of importance. There are far bigger things going on in the World right now that could scupper all his plans.

 

Of any time in the last 15 years to decide to do this development with hearts stadium ? This is probably the worst. By a long, long way.

 

May still work of course. Just depends how smart UBIG/Vlad have been with their money. Considering huge banking/investment companies are writing off $10 billlion here and there on an almost weekly basis? My hopes are not too high.

 

I would be in favour of the club carrying out the basic work on the roof etc to ensure that it continues to get a safety certificate.

 

Allying a speculative property development to a grandiose new stand at this point in the cycle does not look like a very sensible investment to me.

[Cliffundo]

My take on this is simple - if Hearts want to build the stadium then the council will not stand in their way. However Hearts must meet their obligations first (nursery, chemical vats, trams etc..).

 

However people within the project (from the Hearts end of things) have questioned the financial viability of the overall re-development and this maybe adds some fuel to the fire.

 

The timescales slipped - but the actual application is pretty much spot on. A few things to change but nothing major espically when you look at the size of the project.

 

Simply from what I hear the only way it will not happen if VR decides not to proceed.

 

I would take a punt on that! I do not think it will happen! I thought it would have before, but seeing how things have gone over the last year....I have serious doubts!

[PTBCAL]

Are Vlad's people advising him not to proceed?

 

John,

 

In a word No.

 

But they are questionning the returns and margins over the long term.

 

Hearts have spent a lot of time and money on this to get it this far - well over ?1m in fees alone.

[coppercrutch]

I would be in favour of the club carrying out the basic work on the roof etc to ensure that it continues to get a safety certificate.

 

Allying a speculative property development to a grandiose new stand at this point in the cycle does not look like a very sensible investment to me.

 

With the amount of money that has been spent on the proposed plans I do not doubt that the original intention was there.

 

However I imagine Vlad and his advisors are NOW possibly thinking exactly what you have stated above.

 

Times change, and what looked like a fantastic investment/plan 12 months ago looks more like potential financial suicide today.

[Coco]

John,

 

In a word No.

 

But they are questionning the returns and margins over the long term.

 

Hearts have spent a lot of time and money on this to get it this far - well over ?1m in fees alone.

 

It sounds like the advisors put the cart before the horse.

[Orkneyjambo]

I am delighted that pretty much everybody has put a positive spin on this negative piece by the Scotsman.

 

However, now is the time for the club to put out a positive statement to the effect that all is going to plan and there is no doubt that the stadium will be re-developed according to timescale.

 

Anything short of this, in my eyes, would make me wary of being quite so positive about the club's intent.

[coppercrutch]

I am delighted that pretty much everybody has put a positive spin on this negative piece by the Scotsman.

 

However, now is the time for the club to put out a positive statement to the effect that all is going to plan and there is no doubt that the stadium will be re-developed according to timescale.

 

Anything short of this, in my eyes, would make me wary of being quite so positive about the club's intent.

 

 

I know this may sound strange but IMO a statement of the opposite would re-assure me more. I think this development at this time is a bad idea. I would love it to happen but waiting a few years could be a far better option.

 

If Vlad is serious about this club I think a clear intent that he is actually THINKING before splashing his/our cash would be a good thing. As long as the reasons and future plans for the club are explained in detail.

[PTBCAL]

I know this may sound strange but IMO a statement of the opposite would re-assure me more. I think this development at this time is a bad idea. I would love it to happen but waiting a few years could be a far better option.

 

If Vlad is serious about this club I think a clear intent that he is actually THINKING before splashing his/our cash would be a good thing. As long as the reasons and future plans for the club are explained in detail.

 

CC.

 

The existing H&S certificate for the old stand runs out next season May 09. Hearts were warned last time that renewal would be unlikely.

[coppercrutch]

CC.

 

The existing H&S certificate for the old stand runs out next season May 09. Hearts were warned last time that renewal would be unlikely.

 

Ouch. However I reckon something like COCO described could work for a few years ? There are plenty of worse stands in Scottish football that get safety certificates. I would love to see Hearts have the spanking new stand and I am totally behind it. I just think a 'wait and see' policy could be the best option just now. Even if it did mean having to spend a few more hundred thousand on bringing the old stand up to scratch for a couple more years.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The problem with the existing stand isn't the roof as such, even though it has asbestos. It is the structure of the stand, which is wooden. A 'retro fit' of the stand, therefore, would be an expensive outlay for little payback (although that depends on the likelihood of the council closing the stand).

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Here's the club statement - a bit longer than the one line in its sister paper.

 

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/-Hearts-insist-51m-Tynecastle.3978111.jp

[marshallschunkychicken]

Here's the club statement - a bit longer than the one line in its sister paper.

 

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/-Hearts-insist-51m-Tynecastle.3978111.jp

 

I also like the fact that the apparent stand-off regarding the removal of the whisky has been resolved sometime between the Scotsman printing this morning, and approximately midday today if the first article is to be believed...

[ToadKiller Dog]

Here's the club statement - a bit longer than the one line in its sister paper.

 

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/-Hearts-insist-51m-Tynecastle.3978111.jp

 

Think its a pretty fair statement none of us except maybe the shareholders have the right to know exactly every single detail of how the project is funded or developing ,but the club needs to communicate better than waiting to respond once a new Hobo scare story appears.

[The Baldmans Comb]

In the current economic climate a 12 month delay sounds either very appropriate or very lucky.

 

I'm afraid until the bulldozers move in, I'm treating all this speculation either way with a pinch of salt as ?51m+ at this moment on time on a stand/hotel/houses/shopping complex looks a highly dangerous business propostion.

[Mon]

Ukios Bankos shares have been taking quite a tumble in the last couple of months.

[Martin_T]

I've always been of the opinion that an entirely new site would be much more financially viable. Why pay the premium to develop inner city land, and we are talking a premium of several million pounds, just because of an emotional attachment to Tynecastle?

 

Thinking back to the sale of Tynecastle in 2004, I think most of us were not against leaving Tynecastle in principle, it was leaving Tynecastle without any kind of long term sustainable plan.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just one point on the economic rationale of the development. If Vlad wants it, he'll go ahead despite the return etc. Why? Well, look at what he does on the pitch. He's not getting the return on his investment that he would be had he left things alone.

 

It's a vanity project for him first and foremost.

[jkato]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

 

The artist impressions on the UBIG and Hearts websites are nothing more than fanciful impressions and are similar to drawings in kiddies bedtime story books.

 

This mob have little or no previous in delivering stadium construction projects and it's simply fanciful thinking on their/our part that this will come together.

 

We're the wrong side of ?38M in debt and are looking to borrow an unbeknown amount over and above this (?51M was previously stated but would be 2 years out of date if/when development begins).

 

These reports aren't without credence and the alarm bells should be ringing.

 

There's more negativity than positives and the AGM should make for some interesting retorts to the position.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Ukios Bankos shares have been taking quite a tumble in the last couple of months.

 

They cant be doing that bad reported a profit in line with there size in fact 8% more than predicted plus they have been admitted to the NASDAQ OMX Baltic market not massive but a big step for a bank of that size.

Seems they are still growing.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Of any time in the last 15 years to decide to do this development with hearts stadium ? This is probably the worst. By a long, long way.

 

True that the worlds financial markets are in a state of turmoil at the moment however if their figures are indeed correct with regards to revenue generated from the new stand then it's a no brainer and will pay for itself.

 

Yes it's not the best time to start a project like this however if it were a case of waiting till the markets turned then it would never happen as the worst is still to come.

 

If he doesn't push ahead now then it is never going to happen. The market is going to be in a worse state this time next year!

[Guest casper]

Just one point on the economic rationale of the development. If Vlad wants it, he'll go ahead despite the return etc. Why? Well, look at what he does on the pitch. He's not getting the return on his investment that he would be had he left things alone.

 

It's a vanity project for him first and foremost.

 

I reckon he'll build it and then after about 3 months when he's not getting the return he wants, he'll knock it all down and rebuild it to an old Soviet plan.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I reckon he'll build it and then after about 3 months when he's not getting the return he wants, he'll knock it all down and rebuild it to an old Soviet plan.

 

Don't tempt him!

[PTBCAL]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

 

The artist impressions on the UBIG and Hearts websites are nothing more than fanciful impressions and are similar to drawings in kiddies bedtime story books.

 

This mob have little or no previous in delivering stadium construction projects and it's simply fanciful thinking on their/our part that this will come together.

 

We're the wrong side of ?38M in debt and are looking to borrow an unbeknown amount over and above this (?51M was previously stated but would be 2 years out of date if/when development begins).

 

These reports aren't without credence and the alarm bells should be ringing.

 

There's more negativity than positives and the AGM should make for some interesting retorts to the position.

 

According to the planning dept at the Council - the application was one of the most thorough and professional applications they have received on anything of this scale.

 

Maybe it will never happen but a whole lot of time, effort and money has been spent getting us to this stage. Also more importantly one of the stumbling blocks looks like it has been resolved - taken from today's evening Hobo.

 

It is understood a tripartite agreement has now been reached between the club, the city council and North British Distillers over the removal of the whisky from the bonds in Wheatfield Street.