Munch Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Der Huns 3 year business plan was to end up playing champions league after ceptics mess up again last night with the millions they have to spend i just dont see sevco getting to that level ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Out of money sept/oct. Admin 2 incoming. Oh the joys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Out of money sept/oct. Admin 2 incoming. Oh the joys. We know this how? Happy if it's true for our promotion chances, don't get me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Out of money sept/oct. Admin 2 incoming. Oh the joys. It has no impact on the current Rangers owners. Doesnt this mean it has little or no effect on The Rangers and only on the Murray Group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We know this how? Happy if it's true for our promotion chances, don't get me wrong. We dont know. Its an estimate of when its going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 No no no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We know this how? Always pose questions with the query at the end do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) FF, Can I ask a favour? The UTTT decision came out IIRC when you were on holiday. Again, IIRC you said you would review and come back with opinions but I don't think you did. Apologies if I missed it, but would you have time to do a precis of the findings. If you already have, can you provide me with a link? As you no doubt know, here is the high level decision:- Case remitted to the FTT (i) with a direction to allow the taxpayers? appeals against the assessments relating to the payments to the sub-trusts of Sir David Murray, his sons, Mr McClelland, and Mr MacMillan; (ii) to proceed as accords in relation to the termination payments, the payments in respect of guaranteed bonuses, and any related questions of grossing up. Quoad ultra the appeal is dismissed. I find the referal back to FTT for termination interesting. Didn't Billy Dodds say his EBT related only to his contract termination and something along the lines that he was due ?190k (net) from Rangers? And as long as his bank account was credited with that amount, then the tax/NI was the responsibility of MG/RFC and the vehicles they used to pay (or avoid it). And I suppose the secondary question - if FTT find in favour of HMRC re guaranteed bonuses and termination payments, does this render any of LNS null and void if these elements of the players renumeration package were not disclosed to the SPL. Not that it likely matters as Sandy Bryson's testimony over-rides everything anyway. Thanks for reminding me ..... not! I did look over the full decision, but there was nothing particularly revealing in Lord Doherty's report that merited further discussion beyond what I posted at the time. With regard to the main part of the appeal, the UTTT upheld the majority's (Mure & Rae) decision in the FTTT on the basis that it was reasonable for them to have come to the conclusion they did on the evidence and arguments presented to them. He also stated that the majority in the FTTT had adequately considered the alternative arguments and documented their reasons why they accepted the Murray group position rather than the HMRC position. He was quite critical of HMRC for failing to present evidence to the UTTT that fitted the precedents that they sought to use. What Lord Doherty didn't do was to consider why the minority decision (Poon's) was so much at odds with the majority and the reasons why that might be. I've come to the conclusion that had the "majority" had found in favour of HMRC, then Lord Doherty's decision would have found in favour of that outcome on the basis that it was reasonable for them to ............etc. For the outstanding issues referred back to the FTTT, you have to look back at the original FTTT decision itself, where they failed to come to a decision on the Murray group executives trusts (SDM included), the Termination Payments for affecting 35 Trusts, and the 5 Trusts where it was accepted that there was a tax liability. I think that there was an expectation that HMRC and Murray Group would come to an agreed position on these points following the FTTT, but that has not materialised. From the original FTTT report "Special considerations do arise in certain individual cases, and we are conscious that these may require to be dealt with further." (i) Executives? bonuses (Murray execs) (ii) Footballers: on engagement (iii) Footballers: termination payments (35 cases) (iv) Footballers: guaranteed bonuses (5 cases) (i) has been referred back to the FTTT with a direction to find in favour of the Murray Group. The others have been referred back to the FTTT for them to make a decision, in the absence of an out of court settlement. The 35 Termination payments ranged from ?1.55M (Tore Andre Flo) to ?20,000. Among them were McLeish's ?530K, Ogilvie's ?95K and Dodds (???) Edited August 28, 2014 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavers Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 If the Courts were to rule these EBT's as loans does this mean that the administrators BDO for the old Company can then call these loans in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) If the Courts were to rule these EBT's as loans does this mean that the administrators BDO for the old Company can then call these loans in ? No, the (tax) courts have already accepted that they were loans. The loans were made by the Trustees of each of the EBTs. Once Rangers had funded the trusts then that was their involvement over (at least officially/legally). Edited August 28, 2014 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No, the (tax) courts have already accepted that they were loans. The loans were made by the Trustees of each of the EBTs. Once Rangers had funded the trusts then that was their involvement over (at least officially/legally). Talking about loans its not long now till the million pound plus loan is due to be repaid but do they have the money to repay this loan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine how exhausting this must be if you're a Rangers fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.T.K Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Imagine how exhausting this must be if you're a Rangers fan! After our last season................. Edited August 28, 2014 by I.T.K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 After our last season................. Exactly, we only had a year of it to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine how exhausting this must be if you're a Rangers fan! Shame eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Shame eh? There are some in my extended family so the official public line is yes, it's a real shame. A catastrophe if you will. An apocalypse in fact. I'm surprised Hearts still exist frankly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine how exhausting this must be if you're a Rangers fan! Imagine how it would have been for the poor poppets if they'd had to go through a proper administration/liquidation event and not the half arsed effort orchestrated by the duffers and backed by the gutless governing bodies in our game. Imagine if they'd had to re-apply for a league place? Imagine if they'd had to take a proper transfer ban? Never mind, i like to look on the bright side that is they've actually got the owners they really deserve and they haven't experienced even half of the pain that's coming their way. That makes me feel really warm and fuzzy inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine how it would have been for the poor poppets if they'd had to go through a proper administration/liquidation event and not the half arsed effort orchestrated by the duffers and backed by the gutless governing bodies in our game. Imagine if they'd had to re-apply for a league place? Imagine if they'd had to take a proper transfer ban? Never mind, i like to look on the bright side that is they've actually got the owners they really deserve and they haven't experienced even half of the pain that's coming their way. That makes me feel really warm and fuzzy inside. Imagine if everything you say is yet to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine how proud they'd have felt if they made an effort to save their club instead of crying, whinging, pantwetting and plotting revenge of other clubs. Imagine knowing you let your club die. **** that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 They never even got punished for all the cheating the tainted titles and other Trophys won during the period the bumped Hector should have been stripped from the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboz Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Imagine if everything you say is yet to come :smugger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c--plc--rfc-/rns/open-offer/201408290700203031Q/ Share offer details now released anticipated to raise ?3.6m after expenses if full take up. Wonder how many football associations across the globe would provide a new football licence to a club entering the bottom tier league requiring to raise ?20m+ by way of IPO within 6 months, a further share option of ?3.6m and another issue of ?30m within 2.5 years? USA? Wonder who at the SFA is tracking Charles Green's initial business plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Alasdair Lamont ?@BBCAlLamont 8m Rangers statement says they had "an unaudited cash balance of ?4.258m at 30 June 2014" including ?2.72m not currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdannyb Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 @BBCAlLamont 12m Rangers announce plans to Stock Exchange to try to raise ?4m by issuing new shares to existing shareholders at 20p each. Rangers statement says they had "an unaudited cash balance of ?4.258m at 30 June 2014" including ?2.72m not currently available. If minimum subscription not reached "Company will be unable to pay its creditors as they fall due and the future will be uncertain... The Directors will immediately have to seek emergency financing which may or may not be available." Bye-bye Sevco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab87 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 How long do they have to raise it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimUpNorth Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 And if they don't raise it or secure the emergency funding ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Reading the notes at the end is interesting. If 15m shares (roughly 75% or ?2.7m) not taken up, Share Offer won't go ahead and causes company serious challenges in having to identify other short term funding solutions. This ?2.7m min is needed to get them to end of year when open offer released to raise further ?20m-?30m. Wonder if hedge funds / institutional investors have committed to buy in this time round to cover 75%? Still no call to arms to beg fans to turn up to games so everything must be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeTheGnu2.0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 @BBCAlLamont 12m If minimum subscription not reached "Company will be unable to pay its creditors as they fall due and the future will be uncertain... And therefore trading as an insolvent Company. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Alasdair Lamont ?@BBCAlLamont 8m Rangers statement says they had "an unaudited cash balance of ?4.258m at 30 June 2014" including ?2.72m not currently available. There will still be season ticket money to be added to that figure. Wonder how much of the ?2.72m will ever be released from Rangers Retail to the club coffers and how much to saviour Mike Ashley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) How long do they have to raise it? Timeline suggests 9/11. That's 11 September not 9 November. Edited August 29, 2014 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownkg Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Is part of that ?2.72m not the season ticket installments? They have still not announced paying back the previous emergency loans edit I have now read the offer doc and this is in part to pay back these loans Edited August 29, 2014 by brownkg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alva-Jambo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 LOL these shares originally valued at a pound on AIM market, There wont be so many mugs wanting to buy such paper at 20p. Good chance it will fail to reach acceptances level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Is part of that ?2.72m not the season ticket installments? Tehy have still not announced paying back the previous emergency loans It's sitting with Rangers Retail (in part Mike Ashley / Sports Direct?). The notes also say that the funding raised will go to pay Easdale and Letham back in part. I'd guess Letham will be paid but Easdale happy to continue to hold security over Edmiston House and the car park until next share issue. I think there will have to be a more precise AIM release re the loans late Monday, open business Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownkg Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks I hadn't read the docs before I replied I now have and my previous post is now edited. Roll on Monday/Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Why's this thread still going? Oh aye... They're messed. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 @BBCAlLamont 12m Rangers announce plans to Stock Exchange to try to raise ?4m by issuing new shares to existing shareholders at 20p each. Rangers statement says they had "an unaudited cash balance of ?4.258m at 30 June 2014" including ?2.72m not currently available. If minimum subscription not reached "Company will be unable to pay its creditors as they fall due and the future will be uncertain... The Directors will immediately have to seek emergency financing which may or may not be available." Bye-bye Sevco. Oooft no punches there its either we get the cash or we are in soapy. ?2.7m raised will not get them to the end of the season even adding the ?2.72m they cant get there hands on at the mo its going to be tight. At a burn rate of ?700k per month loss (at a guess) what 8 months takes them to April/May losing ?5.6m. Interesting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownkg Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Qualifying Shareholders are being invited to participate in the Open Offer and (subject to certain exceptions) will have received an Application Form with the Circular. Who is on the blacklist and no getting an application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world_3 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Alasdair Lamont ?@BBCAlLamont 8m Rangers statement says they had "an unaudited cash balance of ?4.258m at 30 June 2014" including ?2.72m not currently available. I wonder if this "?2.72m not currently available" is future season ticket revenue from direct debits, or the loans that they got from Easdale and Letham that they've got to pay back? Or this month's wage bill? Either way it means they've only got about ?1.5m to pay their bills, and after Green shafting them with the "onerous contracts" then other than walk-ups they've got no significant revenue coming in. Looks like either Admin 2, or selling off Murray Park and/or Ibrox just to get them into 2015 without folding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavers Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "At the minimum level of subscription additional working capital will be required towards the end of the current calendar year? - December 2014 So as well as this share issue which is only available to current share holders they will still need to raise additional capital by the end of the year. Admin Part 2 coming soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "At the minimum level of subscription additional working capital will be required towards the end of the current calendar year? - December 2014 So as well as this share issue which is only available to current share holders they will still need to raise additional capital by the end of the year. Admin Part 2 coming soon Setting the scene for a sell off of the big hoose! !! The Mk3 Rangers will be renting forever at a horrendous cost. Champions League no more. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Bye bye Sevco. Was horrible while it lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Setting the scene for a sell off of the big hoose! !! The Mk3 Rangers will be renting forever at a horrendous cost. Champions League no more. ^_^ At least until the crowds dwindle to a level when they can ground share with Partick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I wonder if this "?2.72m not currently available" is future season ticket revenue from direct debits, or the loans that they got from Easdale and Letham that they've got to pay back? Or this month's wage bill? Either way it means they've only got about ?1.5m to pay their bills, and after Green shafting them with the "onerous contracts" then other than walk-ups they've got no significant revenue coming in. Looks like either Admin 2, or selling off Murray Park and/or Ibrox just to get them into 2015 without folding. The ?2.72m is money with Rangers Retail which I think is linked to a Sports Direct contract. There has been rumours of TRFC only getting ?3-?5 per shirt sale when the standard is closer to ?15-?20. This isn't quite last chance saloon to retain Ibrox / Murray Park. I think the bigger share option is. But the Bears have been built up into a frenzy as to their importance, so much so even if I was one of the hedge funds, I wouldn't touch them. Mind you an onerous sale and lease back would be crippling too. Union of Fans next statement will be interesting. Time to go back on its initial views and fully back the board or finish with them completely and go on full boycott and take a chance on another liquidation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 'Mr Regan, once you and Mr Ogilvie finish your audio conference with Mr King, Mr Wallace is waiting for your appointment' 'Coffee and biscuits for three please' 'On its way Mr Regan' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't know anything about shares and the stock market etc so sorry if this is a stupid question - but how can you keep issuing shares? Doesn't it dilute the value of existing shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Fascione Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Goodbye you bigoted Hun filth. Here's hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 April Review: Aim to make team Scottish Premiership winners by 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't know anything about shares and the stock market etc so sorry if this is a stupid question - but how can you keep issuing shares? Doesn't it dilute the value of existing shares? Basically yes. But most firms with a rights issue to existing shareholders intend to use the cash to generate more value for said shareholders. In time this can even increase the share price. In Rangers case, however, the cash is to be used to pay wages etc to limp along until the end of the season when some sort of Plan B is hoped for. The smart money must be on a sale and leaseback of Ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Phil Mc whatshisname has the following to say...interesting. http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-running-on-fumes/#more-5016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The ?2.72m is money with Rangers Retail which I think is linked to a Sports Direct contract. There has been rumours of TRFC only getting ?3-?5 per shirt sale when the standard is closer to ?15-?20. This isn't quite last chance saloon to retain Ibrox / Murray Park. I think the bigger share option is. But the Bears have been built up into a frenzy as to their importance, so much so even if I was one of the hedge funds, I wouldn't touch them. Mind you an onerous sale and lease back would be crippling too. Union of Fans next statement will be interesting. Time to go back on its initial views and fully back the board or finish with them completely and go on full boycott and take a chance on another liquidation? If they really distrust the board as much as they say, they may feel it is worth the risk, especially since they know the authorities will finally hey can to help them retain their current league position, it at worst, start at the bottom league again, rather than the non leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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