CostaJambo Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 A post on another thread got me thinking that this deserves some debate as I disagreed with the poster's opinion. I reckon Vlad's biggest mistake so far was to allow Burley to leave and think he could obtain similar results while still having significant input in team/squad selection. In 30 years of following Hearts only the Dad's Army team of Alex McDonald in the mid-eighties comes close in terms of the style of play and results obtained. I heard once on Radio 5 live that Vlad had met Roman Abrahamovich who asked him why he invested in Hearts. Vlad's reply was reputedly that he only had 2 teams to beat to get into the Champions League. If this is correct then it makes his decision to allow Burley to leave even more bewildering given our form at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Wearing a 1950's Hearts lapel badge during the 06 run in. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Not telling us he would do it his way from the start? Giving us a glimpse of what could be? Burley and Pressley are way down my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkserino Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Malofeev - case closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Saving a club that has the most ungrateful, whinging support the world has ever seen:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Committing such a big overspend on player contracts prior to stadium redevelopment being finalised or else not moving to murrayfield for the duration to capitalise on bigger demand / attendances to help balance the books after 2005-06 season & beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Not telling us he would do it his way from the start? Giving us a glimpse of what could be? Burley and Pressley are way down my list. I would have to agree with that I also think He needed a talisman a good start so people would Believe So hence why burley came in a name that could excite the fans and also the players Awake the sleeping giant so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Slowly bust surely, making a miles hunt of the Burley era. In fact, sorry Johnny - sacking Burley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Getting involved in team selection/rotation policy!!! ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Okay Burley was a howler and most people would say his biggest mistake. He kind of got away with that one in some ways though because we still qualified for the Champions league. His biggest mistake came then IMO. THATS when a decent manager and 2 or 3 quality signings should have been made. He didnt do it. Things might have been so different today if he had done it and if he had managed to get to the group stages. A huge mistake IMO and one we have never recovered from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Having heard stories of Burley's drinking and Anderton's over-spending I have changed my previous feelings that these were the two biggest gaffs. Now I will say that his biggest mistake was not replacing them with the quality we and the club deserved. With Campbell in place, if he secures a good manager then he has finally managed to do that. But to do so nearly two years later is just farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Burley, no question. It completely and utterly burst the bubble. Even if, as we are led to believe to some of Vlad's cheerleaders, the decision was necessary to ensure the viability of Vlad's "cost-cutting" strategy, the timing was so pointlessly destructive it almost made you want to literally weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Thomson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Not realising ,you dont have to pay ?12.000 per week salarys in the SPL, to get success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Slowly bust surely, making a miles hunt of the Burley era. In fact, sorry Johnny - sacking Burley. My point being, If he had came in and told us how it was going to be from the off, The fans would still have been happy, I don't need to point out to you GA how desperate we were at that time. It could be argued imo that appointing Burley was a huge mistake on Romanovs part. It was the fact he allowed people to see what could be only for him to dismantle it so quickly that has a lot of fans foaming at the mouth, Again IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 My point being, If he had came in and told us how it was going to be from the off, The fans would still have been happy, I don't need to point out to you GA how desperate we were at that time. It could be argued imo that appointing Burley was a huge mistake on Romanovs part. It was the fact he allowed people to see what could be only for him to dismantle it so quickly that has a lot of fans foaming at the mouth, Again IMO. Agree with this. Although, it must be said, Vlad is entirely to blame for the heightened expectations of the fans. That's why comments like the one above about ungrateful fans is just ludicrous. Vlad himself was the one who talked up his plans for success. As far as I recall not one single fan put any pressure on him - we were just quite happy to have somebody halt the sale of the ground. He, and only he, talked of big-name signings, league success, European glory, money no object etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 My point being, If he had came in and told us how it was going to be from the off, The fans would still have been happy, I don't need to point out to you GA how desperate we were at that time. It could be argued imo that appointing Burley was a huge mistake on Romanovs part. It was the fact he allowed people to see what could be only for him to dismantle it so quickly that has a lot of fans foaming at the mouth, Again IMO. I do appreciate that, mate. But why appoint a man on big wages who will want to play his own team ? (I do appreciate it was a Anderton/Foulkes gig) Why bring in high earnerslike Jani, Takis etc ? The squad did need a serious overhall- no need to spend the kind on wages they did though if they were jumping the gun on progress. To start taking apart good work, with the money Vlad invested - just seems a bit odd mate. Mind you, its one of many things that dont add up in my eyes. Still, mistakes have been made - still a chance to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalMac Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Mistake?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I do appreciate that, mate. But why appoint a man on big wages who will want to play his own team ? Why bring in high earnerslike Jani, Takis etc ? The squad did need a serious overhall- no need to spend the kind on wages they did though if they were jumping the gun on progress. To start taking apart good work, with the money Vlad invested - just seems a bit odd mate. Mind you, its one of many things that dont add up in my eyes. Still, mistakes have been made - still a chance to turn it around. I don't know, I honestly don't. Maybe he felt he needed to be doing this to make sure he got the shares he wanted (Leslie Deans)? Maybe he didn't realise just how little money could be made at Hearts even with full houses and record merchandise sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't know, I honestly don't. Maybe he felt he needed to be doing this to make sure he got the shares he wanted (Leslie Deans)? Maybe he didn't realise just how little money could be made at Hearts even with full houses and record merchandise sales? I think in all honesty mate, we all sit here and specualate on who when and why - **** knows why things have happened. Will just have to wait until he releases his book. "Will there ever be a rainbow ??" By V Romanov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Lying. I could take him being rubbish, being pigheaded and never admitting being wrong and everything else but the promises he makes which he must know he'll never keep are the dealbreaker for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 His biggest mistake was not ignoring the little voices in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 His biggest mistake was not ignoring the little voices in his head. Or listening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Having heard stories of Burley's drinking and Anderton's over-spending I have changed my previous feelings that these were the two biggest gaffs. Now I will say that his biggest mistake was not replacing them with the quality we and the club deserved. With Campbell in place, if he secures a good manager then he has finally managed to do that. But to do so nearly two years later is just farcical. I heard those rumours a few weeks after Burley left. They were bollox. Utter lies. Those guys were undoubtedly the best thing to happen to Hearts. The fact that he got rid of them (in one way or another) was scandelous. We could have done something big with them at the helm. So sad. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochend Brazil Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Shutting up shop at half time during the rix 5-1 game against the cracks heads. The wee team team where there for double figures that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I heard those rumours a few weeks after Burley left. They were bollox. Utter lies. Those guys were undoubtedly the best thing to happen to Hearts. The fact that he got rid of them (in one way or another) was scandelous. We could have done something big with them at the helm. So sad. . No they weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 No they weren't. Sorry, should have been a bit more precise. They were the pretext for getting rid. That is all. OK, GB liked a drink. So whats the problem? Robbo likes a drink & doesn't turn up for training some mornings yet he kept a few jobs whilst doing so. Did GB neglect his responsibility to the 1st team? Why, oh why, oh why. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 No they weren't. Was it someone at the club in an official capacity that has verified these allegations to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 January '06 - the day my world collapsed - releasing Neil MacFarlane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochend Brazil Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 No they weren't. I heard the storys about sir George and his love of the juice. My mate was behind the dug out during his first game in charge of th national team and that he heard George shouting Brellier thats your man, I assumed he thought he was still in charge of Hearts when I heard this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Sorry, should have been a bit more precise. They were the pretext for getting rid. That is all. OK, GB liked a drink. So whats the problem? Robbo likes a drink & doesn't turn up for training some mornings yet he kept a few jobs whilst doing so. Did GB neglect his responsibility to the 1st team? Why, oh why, oh why. . True. The real reasons for getting rid of both appeared to be that Vlad didn't like either of them. Why? I don't think anybody but Vlad knows the real reason. Still not entirely convinced how great things would have been had both still been here. Definitely better than now obviously but I feel a mistake bigger than the firing of they two was the failure to replace them with the people necessary to take the club forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 The more time I spend on JKB the more I realise my views differ from most posters! Someone has even argued that appointing GB was a mistake! Frankly I could suffer Vlad's lies if we were storming past teams below us before half-time and going to places like Ibrox and Darkhied and coming away with at least a draw. We used to have a manager in place who was doing that pre the January window and would surely only have improved the squad, not weakened it. I fully appreciate the fact that he saved us from playing at Murrayfield, but what I can't excuse is the opinion that we should therefore accept whatever whim he subsequently appears to work upon to satisfy his ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulah Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Letting Burley go IMO,coz till the day i die i will always wonder if we could have won the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 True. The real reasons for getting rid of both appeared to be that Vlad didn't like either of them. Why? I don't think anybody but Vlad knows the real reason. Still not entirely convinced how great things would have been had both still been here. Definitely better than now obviously but I feel a mistake bigger than the firing of they two was the failure to replace them with the people necessary to take the club forward. He should never have been in the position to have to look for another manager. We had one. And I firmly believe that we would have won the league that year had he not been sacked. You know, I get the same hideous, gut wrenching, painfull, twisting in my stomach feeling when I think of Dens 86. The sacking of GB was just another punch in the guts, on the very same level as Dens to me. I will never forget my dad saying to me as I swayed in the house to pick him up for the game; "you haven't heard the news, have you?" *******s! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Someone has even argued that appointing GB was a mistake! For Romanov it clearly was, Or do you think there would be this anger from the fans if he hadn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 "Single biggest mistake" YOU MUST BE FECKING JOKING SURELY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Race Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Having heard stories of Burley's drinking and Anderton's over-spending I have changed my previous feelings that these were the two biggest gaffs. Now I will say that his biggest mistake was not replacing them with the quality we and the club deserved. With Campbell in place, if he secures a good manager then he has finally managed to do that. But to do so nearly two years later is just farcical. oh dear oh dear, are you one of the posters that blames the great Glasgow media for all the other rumours, and bad press which have caused all the problems at the club. Too many on here are happy to condem whoever suits them based on posts from somebody on this site, who knows a man, who knows a man blah blah blah........yet blame the great west coast media machine for any detrimental reports they don't like the rest of the time. George Burleys apparent drink "problem" was not considered bad enough by his new employers to make him Scotland manager. Just maybe they would have investigated this before appointing him under the pretext there may be no smoke without fire. They obviously didn't check KB for the thoughts of the man, who knows a man blah blah blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 For Romanov it clearly was, Or do you think there would be this anger from the fans if he hadn't? I'm not entirely clear on your point JF, are you saying that if Vlad hadn't appointed Burley our current expectations wouldn't be so high? What I believe to be Vlad's single biggest mistake is to have installed a manger who had us playing great football and producing results too and then getting rid of him. Having being bought out by a man with a reported fortune of 270 million quid I think a decent manger with a reasonable squad and the freedom to do what most mangers are paid to do is the least we could have expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 He should never have been in the position to have to look for another manager. We had one. And I firmly believe that we would have won the league that year had he not been sacked. You know, I get the same hideous, gut wrenching, painfull, twisting in my stomach feeling when I think of Dens 86. The sacking of GB was just another punch in the guts, on the very same level as Dens to me. I will never forget my dad saying to me as I swayed in the house to pick him up for the game; "you haven't heard the news, have you?" *******s! . That's not as bad as a fecking smug Hibee barstard texting you when you wake up from a monumental hangover! :sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awadooningorgie2 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 This is a good thread. I think I know what the whole thing has been about but one cannot explicity spell it out. Vlad got his shares and next day GB and shortly PA were gone. Guys with brains and intergrity who were clued up on signings and salaries. For VR, success on the field was never the priority. Hearts spent ?22 million in wages and ?5 million in transfer fees in 2005-2007. A lot of money which we have maybe not seen value for on the field? We do not know how much of this ?27 million was paid to UBIG, FC Kaunas or Prosports Management. Fill in the blanks......the rest starts to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 That's not as bad as a fecking smug Hibee barstard texting you when you wake up from a monumental hangover! :sad: Hook the ****! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 VR's biggest mistake was an economic one - without a bigger capacity stadium in place (tynie or muddyfield) there was no way he could cover the cost of the contracts handed out to players - this meant not only did Hearts debts & losses increase massively but also the money UKIO / UBIG were investing wasn't being productively used on new investment in the club instead it was covering losses / debt increases..... If we'd moved to Muddyfield after winning the cup (until the new stadium was built) then the huge post cup / CL interest might have meant that bigger crowds & revenue meant that the best players didn't have to be sold or released to limit the financial damage.....paying high wages in a max capacity 17'500 tynie is a mistake we made in 1998-2001 & then again 2005-2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 oh dear oh dear, are you one of the posters that blames the great Glasgow media for all the other rumours, and bad press which have caused all the problems at the club. You clearly have no idea what role FJ has at the club or else you wouldn't be posting such ill-informed nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I'm not entirely clear on your point JF, are you saying that if Vlad hadn't appointed Burley our current expectations wouldn't be so high? What I believe to be Vlad's single biggest mistake is to have installed a manger who had us playing great football and producing results too and then getting rid of him. Having being bought out by a man with a reported fortune of 270 million quid I think a decent manger with a reasonable squad and the freedom to do what most mangers are paid to do is the least we could have expected. My point is if Romanov had told us from the off how it was going to be (Malofeev, Players from Kaunas, Him having a hand in team selection etc etc) back then the fans would have taken it because of the situation we found ourselves in. Instead of being honest, He allowed the fans to 'believe' by appointing a manager who demanded full autonomy, when in reality this was clearly what he never wanted. This, on his part was a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 This is a good thread. I think I know what the whole thing has been about but one cannot explicity spell it out. Vlad got his shares and next day GB and shortly PA were gone. Guys with brains and intergrity who were clued up on signings and salaries. For VR, success on the field was never the priority. Hearts spent ?22 million in wages and ?5 million in transfer fees in 2005-2007. A lot of money which we have maybe not seen value for on the field? We do not know how much of this ?27 million was paid to UBIG, FC Kaunas or Prosports Management. Fill in the blanks......the rest starts to make sense. This is exactly the point. Why are we even assuming VR has made any 'mistakes'? We don't know if his priority is on-field success, or just showcasing players in order for UBIG, himself or Prosports to benefit. It's pretty obvious Burley wouldn't have appointed in the first place had Romanov had full control at that time; and the same probably goes for Anderton. Both were impediments to what he wanted to do, so both went the moment he was in a position to get rid of them. From our vantage point, the footballing side of things has been careering downhill ever since then - meaning getting rid of Burley would have to be considered his biggest blunder in conventional circumstances. But these are anything but - and for all I know, Vlad might be perfectly content with how things have gone since. Until we know exactly what Romanov's motivations are, I think it's impossible to reach a conclusion on the events of the past two or three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 oh dear oh dear, are you one of the posters that blames the great Glasgow media for all the other rumours, and bad press which have caused all the problems at the club. Too many on here are happy to condem whoever suits them based on posts from somebody on this site, who knows a man, who knows a man blah blah blah........yet blame the great west coast media machine for any detrimental reports they don't like the rest of the time. George Burleys apparent drink "problem" was not considered bad enough by his new employers to make him Scotland manager. Just maybe they would have investigated this before appointing him under the pretext there may be no smoke without fire. They obviously didn't check KB for the thoughts of the man, who knows a man blah blah blah. I don't blame the media for the club's fortunes. I blame Vlad. Don't believe me if you want, that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't blame the media for the club's fortunes. I blame Vlad. Don't believe me if you want, that's up to you. With regard to what you've been told, FJ, have you factored in what might be in it for the people who've told you? An entirely objective source is a major rarity, and everyone has their own preconceptions and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 My point is if Romanov had told us from the off how it was going to be (Malofeev, Players from Kaunas, Him having a hand in team selection etc etc) back then the fans would have taken it because of the situation we found ourselves in. Instead of being honest, He allowed the fans to 'believe' by appointing a manager who demanded full autonomy, when in reality this was clearly what he never wanted. This, on his part was a huge mistake. Fair enough, he ought to have informed the supporters from the off of his intentions, but that wouldn't have changed the results on the park, would it? I think he made the fans "believe" by making wild claims about the CL, not by appointing a manager who with enough financial support may have been able to justify Edinburgh having a team to challenge nationally and also do enough in Europe to make his investments profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 This is exactly the point. Why are we even assuming VR has made any 'mistakes'? We don't know if his priority is on-field success, or just showcasing players in order for UBIG, himself or Prosports to benefit. It's pretty obvious Burley wouldn't have appointed in the first place had Romanov had full control at that time; and the same probably goes for Anderton. Both were impediments to what he wanted to do, so both went the moment he was in a position to get rid of them. From our vantage point, the footballing side of things has been careering downhill ever since then - meaning getting rid of Burley would have to be considered his biggest blunder in conventional circumstances. But these are anything but - and for all I know, Vlad might be perfectly content with how things have gone since. Until we know exactly what Romanov's motivations are, I think it's impossible to reach a conclusion on the events of the past two or three years. Where this theory falls down is that VR or UBIG could just as easily showcase players without making such financial losses / debt increases that have resulted - also if they only wanted to showcase Makela & Beslija etc why rarely play them? If they wanted to showcase FBK Kaunas players then why sign none in August 2005 or January 2006 when the team was at it's most recent peak and players would be attract higher prices as part of a winning team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 Anyway, sorry to post twice in a row on my own thread but what initially prompted me to start this thread was that someone said elsewhere that Vlad's biggest mistake was to let Elvis go. Since noone has even mentioned this I feel somewhat vindicated that my initial thoughts that this was a minor detail appear to have been confirmed. OK, No More Heroes got in between but you know what I mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 With regard to what you've been told, FJ, have you factored in what might be in it for the people who've told you? An entirely objective source is a major rarity, and everyone has their own preconceptions and so on. Very true Shaun, very true. But I'd heard about Burley's drinking through a friend long before I ever did any work for Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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