i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Easily the most ridiculous and unfair things in sport. Let?s take football (seeing as it?s a football forum), why on Earth should 2 teams not meet each other in a first round? Why should small clubs never get an easy tie. I utterly despise the concept of them. It?s like getting a group of heavyweight boxers and a group of fleaweight boxers in a room, putting the heavyweights on one side and the fleaweights on the other and saying pick someone from the other side to fight. Can someone also confirm if the last 16 of champs League is seedings or is it just the first 32? Why shouldn?t Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany draw each other in a group? (????) Therefore, is there even a point doing a draw? Anyone else agree (forget the fact that it is me that is posting this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I hate them as well.Same shit you have to watch in European competions all the time but in saying that look at the spankings that Zagreb have taken this season but then if they kept getting champs league money they might not always be the whipping boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Easily the most ridiculous and unfair things in sport. Let?s take football (seeing as it?s a football forum), why on Earth should 2 teams not meet each other in a first round? Why should small clubs never get an easy tie. I utterly despise the concept of them. It?s like getting a group of heavyweight boxers and a group of fleaweight boxers in a room, putting the heavyweights on one side and the fleaweights on the other and saying pick someone from the other side to fight. Can someone also confirm if the last 16 of champs League is seedings or is it just the first 32? Why shouldn?t Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany draw each other in a group? (????) Therefore, is there even a point doing a draw? Anyone else agree (forget the fact that it is me that is posting this) To maximise the chances of the best 2 teams actually meeting each other in the final, not game 1 and devaluing the entire tournament as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I hate them as well.Same shit you have to watch in European competions all the time but in saying that look at the spankings that Zagreb have taken this season but then if they kept getting champs league money they might not always be the whipping boys. The Champions League (although obviously isn't always the case)is set up so the G16 clubs are the last 16. It truly is minblowingly unfair. Two teams awaiting the same draw with the same teams in it - both qualified fair and square, but one team knows it will get an easier draw than the other. How can anybody defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Champions League (although obviously isn't always the case)is set up so the G16 clubs are the last 16. It truly is minblowingly unfair. Two teams awaiting the same draw with the same teams in it - both qualified fair and square, but one team knows it will get an easier draw than the other. How can anybody defend it. You didn't see last night results then? (apologys, didint see the bit in brackets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 To maximise the chances of the best 2 teams actually meeting each other in the final, not game 1 and devaluing the entire tournament as a result. Yeah sweaty baps I am aware of the logic. But how the **** is this acceptbale? It actually makes me angry. Fair play to the SFA/FA for not having seedings for Scottish Cup or it would be a Celtic Rangers final year in year out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Are APOEL in this G16? CSKA? Napoli? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Are APOEL in this G16? CSKA? Napoli? Just wondering. It's the same people shooting me down every thread FFS I said it doesnt always happen. Take Tennis too. Why should Nadal and Feder never meet until the semi finals? why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Europa league is virtually becoming impossible to get to the groups in now as well as you are always going to face a far far better team in the last qualifying round and what makes it worse as when they knock you out they couldnt give a **** about the rest of the tournament.They would be as well just making the Champs League for the big nations and the Europa for the smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yeah sweaty baps I am aware of the logic. But how the **** is this acceptbale? It actually makes me angry. Fair play to the SFA/FA for not having seedings for Scottish Cup or it would be a Celtic Rangers final year in year out. Because as with most things, those with money and power are the ones that enforce decisions and want to protect that. It does make it more exciting but is inherently unfair I guess. But if you want to the injustice over an unfair playing field you dont really need to look any further than the OF and the SPL. Also As the recent attemtped court proceedings have shown football is as corrupt as any other billion dollar business - the parasites that rise to the top have done so not out of being fair and doing things for the good of the game but through 'favours' and 'promises'. They dont want the boat rocked or thier position undermined so do what it takes to maintain that. The surprising thing is that they are often able to do it in a way that makes everyone else think its being done for the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Europa league is virtually becoming impossible to get to the groups in now as well as you are always going to face a far far better team in the last qualifying round and what makes it worse as when they knock you out they couldnt give a **** about the rest of the tournament.They would be as well just making the Champs League for the big nations and the Europa for the smaller. Throw in the fact that half the teams in it are not even champions. It really is a disgrace. And now the big boys who finish 3rd in the Champs league get shoehorned and pushed to front of the queue (as they are VIPs) for the Europa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Because as with most things, those with money and power are the ones that enforce decisions and want to protect that. It does make it more exciting but is inherently unfair I guess. But if you want to the injustice over an unfair playing field you dont really need to look any further than the OF and the SPL.Also As the recent attemtped court proceedings have shown football is as corrupt as any other billion dollar business - the parasites that rise to the top have done so not out of being fair and doing things for the good of the game but through 'favours' and 'promises'. They dont want the boat rocked or thier position undermined so do what it takes to maintain that. The surprising thing is that they are often able to do it in a way that makes everyone else think its being done for the right reasons. It is very unfair when the Old Firm get to a final and play a non Old Firm team. Straight away the ticket allocation should be 50/50 and anything unsold should then go to the other team. But it's not. It goes to season ticket sales (Glasgow is biggger and is riddled with glory hunters) so therefore is usually 65/35. This then makes it an away game for the non old firm team (it's always home for the Glasgow bigots anyway)thus unfair. If you are playing in a stadium that has far more of the opposition supporters than your own then you are clearly at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Easily the most ridiculous and unfair things in sport. Let?s take football (seeing as it?s a football forum), why on Earth should 2 teams not meet each other in a first round? Why should small clubs never get an easy tie. I utterly despise the concept of them. It?s like getting a group of heavyweight boxers and a group of fleaweight boxers in a room, putting the heavyweights on one side and the fleaweights on the other and saying pick someone from the other side to fight. Can someone also confirm if the last 16 of champs League is seedings or is it just the first 32? Why shouldn?t Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany draw each other in a group? (????) Therefore, is there even a point doing a draw? Anyone else agree (forget the fact that it is me that is posting this) The Champions League (although obviously isn't always the case)is set up so the G16 clubs are the last 16. It truly is minblowingly unfair. Two teams awaiting the same draw with the same teams in it - both qualified fair and square, but one team knows it will get an easier draw than the other. How can anybody defend it. Yeah sweaty baps I am aware of the logic. But how the **** is this acceptbale? It actually makes me angry. Fair play to the SFA/FA for not having seedings for Scottish Cup or it would be a Celtic Rangers final year in year out. It's the same people shooting me down every thread FFS I said it doesnt always happen. Take Tennis too. Why should Nadal and Feder never meet until the semi finals? why? WHY??? Is this were you burst into tears i8 Throw in the fact that half the teams in it are not even champions. It really is a disgrace. And now the big boys who finish 3rd in the Champs league get shoehorned and pushed to front of the queue (as they are VIPs) for the Europa. You get upset at the stupidest things.....Away and Blow up your girlfriend and relieve some of the pent up anguish you've built up in a more.....Well you know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Easily the most ridiculous and unfair things in sport. Let?s take football (seeing as it?s a football forum), why on Earth should 2 teams not meet each other in a first round? Why should small clubs never get an easy tie. I utterly despise the concept of them. It?s like getting a group of heavyweight boxers and a group of fleaweight boxers in a room, putting the heavyweights on one side and the fleaweights on the other and saying pick someone from the other side to fight. Can someone also confirm if the last 16 of champs League is seedings or is it just the first 32? Why shouldn?t Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany draw each other in a group? (????) Therefore, is there even a point doing a draw? Anyone else agree (forget the fact that it is me that is posting this) re your point about brazil argentina spain and germany drawing each other. I like the way they try to keep nations from the same continent in the same group (apart from the top seeds) as it gives you mostly one south american, one african and one or two european teams (with one sometimes replaced by one from asia north america). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Easily the most ridiculous and unfair things in sport. Let?s take football (seeing as it?s a football forum), why on Earth should 2 teams not meet each other in a first round? Why should small clubs never get an easy tie. I utterly despise the concept of them. It?s like getting a group of heavyweight boxers and a group of fleaweight boxers in a room, putting the heavyweights on one side and the fleaweights on the other and saying pick someone from the other side to fight. Can someone also confirm if the last 16 of champs League is seedings or is it just the first 32? Why shouldn?t Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany draw each other in a group? (????) Therefore, is there even a point doing a draw? Anyone else agree (forget the fact that it is me that is posting this) re your point about brazil argentina spain and germany drawing each other. I like the way they try to keep nations from the same continent in the same group (apart from the top seeds) as it gives you mostly one south american, one african and one or two european teams (with one sometimes replaced by one from asia north america). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I agree with i8. I really don't agree with seedings. Like most things, just enhances the gulf between best and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Take the world cup for example... When they are selling the TV rights, they are doing so safe in the knowledge that the majority of the "bigger Nations" will make it through the group stages - which in turn guarantee's viewers from these countries. Sponsorships as well from adverts etc. Not saying its right - but its cold truth - money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 re your point about brazil argentina spain and germany drawing each other. I like the way they try to keep nations from the same continent in the same group (apart from the top seeds) as it gives you mostly one south american, one african and one or two european teams (with one sometimes replaced by one from asia north america). Aye but it's a world cup, not a continents cup. Otherwise what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Take the world cup for example... When they are selling the TV rights, they are doing so safe in the knowledge that the majority of the "bigger Nations" will make it through the group stages - which in turn guarantee's viewers from these countries. Sponsorships as well from adverts etc. Not saying its right - but its cold truth - money. The world watches the world cup regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Is this were you burst into tears i8 You get upset at the stupidest things.....Away and Blow up your girlfriend and relieve some of the pent up anguish you've built up in a more.....Well you know what I mean Hmmmmmmmmm don't really think those posts desrved your response sweetheart but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edin1874 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Seedings go against everything that sport is SUPPOSED to be about. One of the most ridiculous examples is the hosts of football WC and EC get seeded top - whether their actual football backs this up or not. It is not a joke. It is beyond a joke. And Dr I agree - those at the top are just looking after themselves. Time for the rest to tell them to go **** themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The world watches the world cup regardless. No it does not. Argentina/Brazil/Italy etc all going out of a WC would have a massive impact on global viewers around the world. Which would leave sponsors very pissed off. If you think that when FIFA are selling the TV/sponsors rights that they can take the chance of several "big hitters" going out early doors, you are either incredibly stupid or naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Take the world cup for example... When they are selling the TV rights, they are doing so safe in the knowledge that the majority of the "bigger Nations" will make it through the group stages - which in turn guarantee's viewers from these countries. Sponsorships as well from adverts etc. Not saying its right - but its cold truth - money. The best teams will still get through, the occassional big gun can go out but at least it makes the tournament exciting all the way through, rather than just towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I also agree with i8's general point (usual hyperbole aside), can't stand seedings either. Although hopefully this year will be a bit different in the Champs League with Napoli etc doing well, usually it's the same old teams playing the same old teams - very difficult break into that cartel when you've got to break through their resources and seeding advantages. Always feel like it's set up to squeeze as much money out of things now at the expense of the long term excitement factor of the competitions as a whole, as well as to the detriment of helping build clubs which aren't already powers. That, obviously, is the way they want it. Can't really blame them for looking after themselves I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The best teams will still get through, the occassional big gun can go out but at least it makes the tournament exciting all the way through, rather than just towards the end. They could not take the chance that Spain, Argentina, Brazil etc all get pitched in the same group though. It would be a disaster for FIFA when they get round the negotiating table. I would love to have seen the Euro's have one pot - here we go - this is the groups. Reality though, it is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 The best teams will still get through, the occassional big gun can go out but at least it makes the tournament exciting all the way through, rather than just towards the end. Cream will always rise to the top - I agreed - so why do they have to skip 5 stages then? And the lesser countries will never have achance to be better due to them always getting punted int he first round. What is the point in anyone competing in the Europa league right now? knowing that 8 big guns are about to skip the queue and go infront of them. Anyone know when seedings were introduced into sport? i'm guessing aeround the time of commercialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edin1874 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The best teams will still get through, the occassional big gun can go out but at least it makes the tournament exciting all the way through, rather than just towards the end. Yep - I would watch more Champs league and WC games if there were no seedings. They could not take the chance that Spain, Argentina, Brazil etc all get pitched in the same group though. It would be a disaster for FIFA when they get round the negotiating table. I would love to have seen the Euro's have one pot - here we go - this is the groups. Reality though, it is not going to happen. Would they lose more viewers than they gained ? Will never know unless they try it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychocAndy Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Your not always wrong I8 but when your right your right. I remember European Cup holders, Nottm Forest, getting the English League Champions, Liverpool, in the first round of the European Cup, when Forest went on to retain the cup. Couldn't have been seeding then and that was when you hardly had any dead games because it was just a "cup tie". Maybe an older kickbacker than me could remember if the League Cup sections were seeded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yep - I would watch more Champs league and WC games if there were no seedings. Would they lose more viewers than they gained ? Will never know unless they try it.... Lets be honest, if Norway, Mexico, Sebia, Wales Etc were all is the knock out stages and Holland. Germany. Italy were sent home as their groups were nuts, I can guarantee you nearly everyone would be bored shitless of this new system and would be moaning their arse's off. Have you any idea of the amount of viewers that Brazil, Argentina, Germany pull in at a WC? Its Johnny Marr standing at the mixing desk saying "I have a new song called Big Mouth Strikes Again" - its that huge. The Euro's is an interesting one though as due to the amount of teams that are in it - I think they could just pull them out of a hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I like the idea in principle, however I can't help but be dismayed that one of Germany, Portugal and Holland will go out of the Euros in the group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdoffstl Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Have to say I agree with the OP 100%. Real class will generally come out top in the end but what's wrong with minnows getting through a couple of rounds? isn't that for example, the very thing that people call the "romance" of the FA cup which is possibly the most successful domestic tournament in the world. A few years ago Denmark got in to the Euro finals as a replacement for somebody and actually went on to win it so it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I like the idea in principle, however I can't help but be dismayed that one of Germany, Portugal and Holland will go out of the Euros in the group stages. But are you not also thinking how exciting that group will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 What would really be the harm in more than the same handful of teams winning these 'elite' competitions? Nothing - in fact it would make it far more entertaining each year than deciding if Milan, Man Utd or Barca are going to win. (clearly not Man Uts this year ) But in the long run thats a FAR more attractive competition i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 But are you not also thinking how exciting that group will be? In a manner of speaking, but it also means that a Poland/Czech Republic/Greece will be through to the knock-outs and essentially cannon fodder, thereby removing the element of surprise/shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Every boxer should be in with a punchers chance, not manufactured out of the running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 In a manner of speaking, but it also means that a Poland/Czech Republic/Greece will be through to the knock-outs and essentially cannon fodder, thereby removing the element of surprise/shock. There will be 3 exciting group games and potentially 1 walkover QF (but still you never know what can happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Greece were cannon fodder anaw Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 For once, I actually agree with i8. This feels wierd, please go back to posting shite :greggy: There's a lot to be said of the American model for things like basketball and American football. Frist draught picks going to weakest teams, scheduled worked out to make things more difficult for tha top teams. Resulting in the development of the sport in general, not just the select few. In Europe, and in football, it's all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Greece were cannon fodder anaw Ryan. Once in a lifetime, Francis. Besides, they don't have that sexy mofo Panagiotis any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Greece were cannon fodder anaw Ryan. To be fair tho, they didn't even qualify for the championship. Won it fair and sqaure tho. I also think teams should not get Queue jumping passes just for holding it - ESPECIALLY when it is 2 teams hostign a joint one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hmmmmmmmmm don't really think those posts desrved your response sweetheart but hey ho. It's in response to your "Faux" anger at everything...It's like your Burzd threads that used to permiate the site, everybody cottoned on to the fact it was just you splaffing pesh about something you obviously had no experience with. Now you chose to start threads that shows your Anger about everything from TV personalities to people using certain "phrases". It gets you noticed and keeps you happy, so kick on wee man What's next i8, when people realise you just post "Look at me threads" because you're obviously a very lonely individual looking for human contact (this isn't human contact i8, try going out, meet REAL people) Anyway, seedings are magic, cheers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 To be fair tho, they didn't even qualify for the championship. Won it fair and sqaure tho. I also think teams should not get Queue jumping passes just for holding it - ESPECIALLY when it is 2 teams hostign a joint one. ... Aye they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Once in a lifetime, Francis. Besides, they don't have that sexy mofo Panagiotis any more. You're right, Ryan. Once in a lifetime. :greggy: Anyone would struggle to get the job done without Coleman at left back to be fair, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You're right, Ryan. Once in a lifetime. :greggy: Anyone would struggle to get the job done without Coleman at left back to be fair, though. Many people won't have witnessed both Greece and Denmark winning those trophies, so to be fair, it would be once in a lifetime for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 To be fair tho, they didn't even qualify for the championship. Won it fair and sqaure tho. I also think teams should not get Queue jumping passes just for holding it - ESPECIALLY when it is 2 teams hostign a joint one. Right enough. They certainly didn't top a group above Spain on their way to qualifying. Oh no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The reason for seedings is straight forward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdUVKP58g5g&feature=youtube_gdata_player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Right enough. They certainly didn't top a group above Spain on their way to qualifying. Oh no. Did you see our group for that qualifying campaign? We'd be dancing in the streets of Raith if we got a draw like that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 For once, I actually agree with i8. This feels wierd, please go back to posting shite. To be fair tho, they didn't even qualify for the championship. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Many people won't have witnessed both Greece and Denmark winning those trophies, so to be fair, it would be once in a lifetime for them. So it's once in a lifetime if you were born/died between 1993 and 2004, then? Bearing in mind the vast majority of those who died would have seen Czechoslovakia win it in 1976, I'm going to have to reiterate that Did you see our group for that qualifying campaign? We'd be dancing in the streets of Raith if we got a draw like that now. We drew one of the only two teams we didn't stand a chance against in the playoff. Such bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Did they? Fair enough if i'm wrong. How did that work then seeing as they were hosts? Fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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