New 5 year contract with Sky/ESPN for the SPL

[Hungry hippo]

Charlie - I tried to post a similar thing last night but my phone was playing up. The timing of it suggests that may be Sky's motivation given they had no need to renegotiate it at this time. It's a decent deal for the league but it will be a farce if our hands are tied and any new Rangers can just walk into the top division.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Gutted, another half decade of the same old pish it is then aye?

[jamboboy1954]

So there we have it http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/3950642/TV-deal-kills-16-team-league.html

 

Straight from the erses mouth, it seems the clubs signed up to this without a whisper of what was going on to the fans, gutted that we have had to lie down to the OF again.

[IMA MAROON]

Motherwell, Killie, United, St Mirren, St Johnstone will be paying out wages of ?3-?4 million a season and they cannot afford to lose the tv money which could make up as much as half of that.

 

Without the tv money half the SPL would have to go part-time. Imagine how great the league would be then. Amateur football, just what we need.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Doncaster is a complete arsehole, with a misguided and wholly innacurate view of what is "the lifeblood" of the SPL as he puts it... The real life blood of the clubs are already votng with their feet and another 5 years of this shite will only bleed the system further. Gutted. Oh and the deal centres around 4 OF games a season aye? **** me he has just made Rangers safe from liquidation too.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

What would happen if Rangers had a really shite season and never made the top six?

[trotter]

I assume this deal is the BRIBE to ensure any Rangers newco is allowed straight back into the SPL ?

 

that's a bloody good point there CB, IF Rangers go to the wall and need to reapply for entry into the 3rd Division, will the SPL be liable for breach of contract? Surely not as it's through no fault of their own - its essentially the same if they had an exceptionally pish season and got relegated, could Sky pull out of the deal then?. However, on the flipside will they break the rules to let Rangers back in to avoid breaching the contract? It seems to me whatever way this goes down, some rules/regulations are getting broken.

 

And my opinion, FWIW, is that the day the powers-that-be allow newco Rangers to waltz back in to the SPL with no sanction is the beginning of the end for Scottish football. Anyone who thinks this would be afforded to anyone other than the uglies are kidding themselves. If it was us i wouldn't like to start again in Div 3, but thems the rules.

 

EDIT: here's the proof in the pudding for Rangers fans..."One of the conditions is that Celtic and Rangers remain part of the league ? and it's also a condition that they play each other four times a season."

 

The orcs must be sighing with relief now...

 

graeme

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

that's a bloody good point there CB, IF Rangers go to the wall and need to reapply for entry into the 3rd Division, will the SPL be liable for breach of contract? Surely not as it's through no fault of their own - its essentially the same if they had an exceptionally pish season and got relegated, could Sky pull out of the deal then?. However, on the flipside will they break the rules to let Rangers back in to avoid breaching the contract? It seems to me whatever way this goes down, some rules/regulations are getting broken.

 

And my opinion, FWIW, is that the day the powers-that-be allow newco Rangers to waltz back in to the SPL with no sanction is the beginning of the end for Scottish football. Anyone who thinks this would be afforded to anyone other than the uglies are kidding themselves. If it was us i wouldn't like to start again in Div 3, but thems the rules.

 

EDIT: here's the proof in the pudding for Rangers fans..."One of the conditions is that Celtic and Rangers remain part of the league ? and it's also a condition that they play each other four times a season."

 

The orcs must be sighing with relief now...

 

graeme

 

"One of the conditions is that Celtic and Rangers remain part of the league ? and it's also a condition that they play each other four times a season."

 

The game's a ******* bogey then.

[Charlie-Brown]

Motherwell, Killie, United, St Mirren, St Johnstone will be paying out wages of ?3-?4 million a season and they cannot afford to lose the tv money which could make up as much as half of that.

 

Without the tv money half the SPL would have to go part-time. Imagine how great the league would be then. Amateur football, just what we need.

 

Why would they need to go part-time? They could just pay (& offer less) lower wages and play more younger players who naturally earn less.

 

In 1982 Willie Miller was Scotland & Aberdeen captain and one of Scotland most successful and highest paid players - he earned a good wage and had quite a nice life. His wage was less than ?300 per week and adjusted for inflation would be less than ?1000 per week today.

 

Big money TV deals & higher admission prices are what have enabled the players to ask for and get bigger wages that are now well above what they once were and what the clubs can afford.

 

SPL players today are vastly overpaid and ultimately it is fans who are paying for it through greatly increased match ticket prices and digital TV subscriptions. The Clubs aren't seeing any benefit in terms of improved performances or higher crowds. The only people benefitting are those involved in the game earning much higher wages than their predecessors did.

[rudi]

If HMFC could fill Tynecastle with ST holders we could tell Sky/ESPN to ram their deal up their feckin erse, as the bums on seats would generate more money than we will get through Sky. These deals benefit only two clubs in Scotland, and we ain't one of them. The more games they show the more they will want control of kick off times/days etc, tell them to feck off and lets get back to Saturday football, 15:00, with those wanting to watch being inside the stadia.

The same could be said of hibs,the sheep,killie and dundee utd,but they and we can't,so this looks like the best deal unfortunately.

 

As I've said without the OF there would be no TV deal so we just have to make the best of it,if they go by how the money was split like the last deal(and I can't see why it would change) then the prise for winning the league and coming 3rd is only ?400'000 difference,not a great deal considering.

[southside1874]

What would happen if Rangers had a really shite season and never made the top six?

 

Like oor Vlad has been saying...................Scottish Football is stitched up so that wouldn't be allowed to happen

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I hate the SPL it is ******* shite. The only two possible chances of it being more interesting in my view was Rangers being out the league for three years and working their way back up through the SFL or league extension... This deal kills off both those possibilities. I would have rather had no TV deal.

[IMA MAROON]

If you think Scottish football can turn down this kind of money then yer nuts.

[Charlie-Brown]

If you think Scottish football can turn down this kind of money then yer nuts.

 

Do you think we should be dictated to by TV companies about which teams must be in the SPL and how many times they must play each other every season and what day & times matches must be re-organised at relatively short notice to accommodate?

[Mysterion]

We're locked in now so it's time to start the fight for a fairer set of rules (voting system changes etc) and a better distribution of revenue.

 

Those on twitter who are commenting I encourage you to use the hashtag #fairdealforallSPLteams

 

[IMA MAROON]

Do you think we should be dictated to by TV companies about which teams must be in the SPL and how many times they must play each other every season and what day & times matches must be re-organised at relatively short notice to accommodate?

 

It is hardly ideal.

[colinmaroon]

Doncaster is a complete arsehole, with a misguided and wholly innacurate view of what is "the lifeblood" of the SPL as he puts it... The real life blood of the clubs are already votng with their feet and another 5 years of this shite will only bleed the system further. Gutted. Oh and the deal centres around 4 OF games a season aye? **** me he has just made Rangers safe from liquidation too.

 

 

This "glorious" result is a bad day for Scottish Football!

 

 

It's like someone dying of emphysema being given an increase on their tobacco allowance!!!

 

 

 

Doncaster is fiddling while Scottish football "burns"!!!

[Mysterion]

If you think Scottish football can turn down this kind of money then yer nuts.

 

I think we could have turned it down.

 

SPL TV should have been pursued.

 

Before Setanta went for the Prem rights they had a working business model and Scottish Football had a good deal.

 

Short term pain would have resulted in long term gain IMO. Even just doing the basics and after paying bills I don't believe there would not have generated more money than this new Sky/ESPN deal.

[southside1874]

It is hardly ideal.

 

Its less than hardly ideal. Its like saying that Germany, Brazil and Italy will be at the next world cup finals so if you're in their qualifying group then don't bother trying too much

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Its less than hardly ideal. Its like saying that Germany, Brazil and Italy will be at the next world cup finals so if you're in their qualifying group then don't bother trying too much

 

It's as good an analogy as any.

[Rick Grimes]

 

EDIT: here's the proof in the pudding for Rangers fans..."One of the conditions is that Celtic and Rangers remain part of the league ? and it's also a condition that they play each other four times a season."

 

graeme

 

 

 

of course, it could argued that a Newco Rangers isn't the one specified in the TV deal so the contractual point is moot.

[skinnybob72]

For me this is just another nail in the coffin of the Scottish game.

 

?80m over 5 years is ?16m a season - or ?1.25m per team if the money was split evenly. However, we know that it's not split evenly so teams like St Midden, Dunfermline will get abound ?0.75m if they are lucky. They also get home games against the OF with crap KO times which will reduce the crowds at what should be their biggest games of the season. Very few OF home games are televised so no downside for them.

 

Looking at this forum there are a large number of folk who want a bigger league - they have all been disregarded for the SKY cash. The fans now have a further 5 years of total tedium to look forward to.

 

The only way to make a 12 team SPL more interesting is to relegate 3 teams each season.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

A good tv deal will ensure Doncaster and co continue to fail to see Scottish football's misgivings.

 

This reads good when in reality all it will do is see that we are served up the same old shit for the next half decade.

 

 

This

[B.S.]

So the majority of clubs have got together behind closed doors and come up with a cunning plan to save rangers.

The timing is amazing with rangers about to implode in the next few weeks/months.

The clubs are pretending they don't know what is about to happen. They are ready to plead ignorance to rangers plight and are already preparing their excuses to appease what will be the disgruntled fans of all the clubs outwith rangers.

 

"but we've budgeted for the next five years based on this sky money. For us to punish rangers would mean all the clubs suffer."

"Saving rangers saves us all". "It makes financial sense" etc etc.

 

Or am I just being paranoid ?

[davemclaren]

So the majority of clubs have got together behind closed doors and come up with a cunning plan to save rangers.

The timing is amazing with rangers about to implode in the next few weeks/months.

The clubs are pretending they don't know what is about to happen. They are ready to plead ignorance to rangers plight and are already preparing their excuses to appease what will be the disgruntled fans of all the clubs outwith rangers.

 

"but we've budgeted for the next five years based on this sky money. For us to punish rangers would mean all the clubs suffer."

"Saving rangers saves us all". "It makes financial sense" etc etc.

 

Or am I just being paranoid ?

 

 

For most clubs it does make financial sense I'm afraid. They can't afford to turn down the contract and the associated conditions.

[bigsuperslim1874]

So there we have it http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/3950642/TV-deal-kills-16-team-league.html

 

Straight from the erses mouth, it seems the clubs signed up to this without a whisper of what was going on to the fans, gutted that we have had to lie down to the OF again.

What really does my nut in is that he keeps harping on that we would lose ?20 million by extending the league - but i have not seen anything to back these claims up or explain how he/they have come to this figure.

[jamboinglasgow]

Apparently Pressley is raging at this deal and how it has killed off an extended league which he has been calling for, will be in the papers tomorrow, should be worth reading.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Apparently Pressley is raging at this deal and how it has killed off an extended league which he has been calling for, will be in the papers tomorrow, should be worth reading.

For all of Pressleys indescretions, i thot he was bang on the money with his comments about league reconstruction. Im gutted we are stuck with the same old pish for the next 5 years.

[skinnybob72]

If this deal has been signed I can't believe how few posts there are on this thread!

 

As others have stated this condemns us to another 5 years of the same rubbish that fans of all clubs have been moaning about for quite some time. If this is seen by those who run the game as a 'great deal' then heaven help us. The OF will win the league regardless of format but FFS lets at least try to bring some variety to the game.

 

I'd imagine the 1st Division clubs were praying for a bigger top league and now the ba's burst for them. If we maintain the same 1up 1down as we have just now then most have nothing to play for.

[colinmaroon]

If this deal has been signed I can't believe how few posts there are on this thread!

 

As others have stated this condemns us to another 5 years of the same rubbish that fans of all clubs have been moaning about for quite some time. If this is seen by those who run the game as a 'great deal' then heaven help us. The OF will win the league regardless of format but FFS lets at least try to bring some variety to the game.

 

I'd imagine the 1st Division clubs were praying for a bigger top league and now the ba's burst for them. If we maintain the same 1up 1down as we have just now then most have nothing to play for.

 

 

 

Donkeyaster does not care one jot for the fans; neither do the SFA; nor most of the clubs!

 

 

I look forward to hearing what Pressley has to say!!!

[Boab]

I hope for the sake of our game that crowds go up and our football gets better......... .......aye right,Boab!

Colin and other posters are right,this will benefit no one apart from the old firm.Are they really going to wait till our game is on the brink and no one is going before they do something?

The game will die without fans and that's the way its going.

[jack D and coke]

This TV deal is practically the end IMO. 5 years of the same tripe that everybody is sick to death of watching is complete and utter insanity. Nobody is listening. Admission prices must come down drastically or it's f***** good and proper. Even then it's debatable whether that will save it.

[bigsuperslim1874]

I am an eternal optimist but i have to say this deal depresses me. We need money that is obvious but i cant believe/understand why we dont have someone with balls in charge who would stand-up and actually negotiate a deal that supports a bigger league.

 

All this bollox about "a great deal for our members" chat is doing my head in.

 

The fans are an afterthought and i do wonder what those poor sods in the 1st division are going to do (not that we dont have our own troubles to seek)...this was a chance for the SPL to do the right thing and have sold their souls for their own needs. And people wonder why supporters are leaving in their droves - its self-serving decisions like this that make me wonder how much worse is it going to get.

[JamboX2]

So another 5 years of 4 boring and predictable Old Firm Derbies and 4 games against the likes of St.Mirren a season. I hope Rangers collapse now so that this can be reassessed.

 

I agree with those who've argued for a 16 to 18 team league. It might not be ideal for tele revenue and the Old Firm, but it saddles all the other clubs with being lumped with the same old format and struggling for funds. Maybe we should vote with our feet and threaten to walk out of the SPL. Doncaster should've negotiated an interim deal to get a breathing space for reform of the SPL which would be a bigger league and done it for the good of the game. This deal is the 5 year run into becoming the Irish League.

[Mark_Mywords]

Here is a breakdown of the SPL prize fund...

 

[kennyblack'sshot]

Here is a breakdown of the SPL prize fund...

 

 

The difference between 1st/2nd and everyone else is obscene. I can accept whoever wins the league getting a large cash prize but there is no reason at all for 2nd place to get that much more than 3rd. Oh wait, there is one reason.... but no, no the league's not organised for the benefit of the OF at all. Vlad's just mad to suggest such a thing.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

A deal that sums up everything that is wrong about Scottish football. Bring on Rangers going bust!

[Wolfstar]

So another 5 years of 4 boring and predictable Old Firm Derbies and 4 games against the likes of St.Mirren a season. I hope Rangers collapse now so that this can be reassessed.

 

I agree with those who've argued for a 16 to 18 team league. It might not be ideal for tele revenue and the Old Firm, but it saddles all the other clubs with being lumped with the same old format and struggling for funds. Maybe we should vote with our feet and threaten to walk out of the SPL. Doncaster should've negotiated an interim deal to get a breathing space for reform of the SPL which would be a bigger league and done it for the good of the game. This deal is the 5 year run into becoming the Irish League.

 

Is that not what we done to form the SPL, clubs in the SPL look at short term gain. The only good side of this deal is it may help us get a buyer as its a gaurenteed 10% of our current turnover sorted for the next 5 years.

 

I would love a 16/18 team league, we are killing football in scotland. We could at least experiment and make the 1st div a 16/18 team league to start with and see how competative it becomes and how many players are blooded through etc.

 

1 team relegation for the next 5 years is crap, I will always follow hearts but the SPL has become boring and predictable... They know what the fans want but no one cares for us.

[SUTOL]

We could at least experiment and make the 1st div a 16/18 team league to start with and see how competative it becomes and how many players are blooded through etc.

 

I thought the 1st Division was/is reasonably competative this and last season at least.

 

And with Raith taking several Hearts U19's to blood as well as I'm sure other teams having SPL youngster also.

 

 

Maybe we don't need 16.18 team divisions, just a more level playing field, which currently anyway seems to some extent exist in the 1st division.

 

 

Edit to add,

 

I've just looked at the tables, between the second top and second bottom clubs, on points, in the 1st division the difference is 7 points, in the 2nd division it's 8 points, in the SPl it's 16 points.

 

Between the top and bottom clubs, 1st Div is 16 points, 2nd Div is 17 points, SPL is 27 points.

 

I wonder how the prize funds in the SFL are divided between the winners, 2nd place and the rest?

[heartsfc_fan]

Here is a breakdown of the SPL prize fund...

 

 

 

The difference between 2nd and 3rd no wonder Scottish football is a farce.

[Francis Albert]

If there was real interest in improving Scottish football and if Rangers and Celtic were really interested in improving the standards and level of competition, that table would be turned upside down. The impact on the OF would be negligible in the short term (quite possibly positive in the long term) but it would make a big difference to the clubs in the bottom half. It would be a tiny step in the direction of the principle behind the NFL system where the weakest teams get first picks of the college graduates.

[Diego10]

The vast majority of the media think its a great deal.

 

Which says a lot.

[colinmaroon]

The vast majority of the media think its a great deal.

 

Which says a lot.

 

 

It must be good then, because the media would never tell us anything but the truth, would they?

[jamboinglasgow]

Here is a breakdown of the SPL prize fund...

 

 

A poster a month or two ago put up a table of how the Premier League money is distributed, the top team only got ?3m more then the 2nd place team (the top team got ?65m to put it into perspective.) And it money went down pretty fairly as you went down the table, they then showed the league if it was distributed under the SPL terms, first now got ?90m+, second got ?85m then 3rd place got I think ?50m and 4th place got 40% less then first.

 

That table shows how wrong the league set up is, under the ?12m a year prize pot it goes up ?60k a place, till between 3rd and 4th is ?120k, 2nd and 3rd is ?660k (which is equal or more then the bottom 3 in the league receive.) Finally difference between 1st and 2nd is ?240k. It makes little sense why the increments are quite steady between 12th and 3rd (the increase between 4th and 3rd is double the increment of others, and between 2nd and 1st is double that of 3rd and 4th) yet between 3rd and 2nd is such a massive jump. It is 11x larger then the increment jump for all the other increases. In fact the difference between 2nd and 3rd is larger then the difference between 3rd and 12th.

 

The SPL prize fund alone shows a demonstration of the bias towards the old firm, yes you can say surely if a non-old firm gets 1st or 2nd it gets this money, that is true but it requires real luck or external funding to achieve. The old firm in their strong position at the creation of the SPL were always going to get 1st or 2nd, so they kept themselves in the money backed by the places giving them champions league access which added more money to them while everyone is trying to scrape a small amount to survive.

 

The SPL has once again whored itself out to Sky rather then deal with the problems, Neil Doncaster's bragging about the deal and saying how we must not upset Sky makes me feel dirty, it seems that priorities have been mixed up, in fighting for a small amount to survive in the current state the SPL has decided that trying to get fans back into the gates. I have just done a little calculation, for the extra that bottom place club is getting under the new deal (?180k) what would be the equivalent number of people needed into each game if you put a ticket at ?15 each, turns out it is just 700 people more a game. It is just wrong.

[2NaFish]

A poster a month or two ago put up a table of how the Premier League money is distributed, the top team only got ?3m more then the 2nd place team (the top team got ?65m to put it into perspective.) And it money went down pretty fairly as you went down the table, they then showed the league if it was distributed under the SPL terms, first now got ?90m+, second got ?85m then 3rd place got I think ?50m and 4th place got 40% less then first.

 

That table shows how wrong the league set up is, under the ?12m a year prize pot it goes up ?60k a place, till between 3rd and 4th is ?120k, 2nd and 3rd is ?660k (which is equal or more then the bottom 3 in the league receive.) Finally difference between 1st and 2nd is ?240k. It makes little sense why the increments are quite steady between 12th and 3rd (the increase between 4th and 3rd is double the increment of others, and between 2nd and 1st is double that of 3rd and 4th) yet between 3rd and 2nd is such a massive jump. It is 11x larger then the increment jump for all the other increases. In fact the difference between 2nd and 3rd is larger then the difference between 3rd and 12th.

 

The SPL prize fund alone shows a demonstration of the bias towards the old firm, yes you can say surely if a non-old firm gets 1st or 2nd it gets this money, that is true but it requires real luck or external funding to achieve. The old firm in their strong position at the creation of the SPL were always going to get 1st or 2nd, so they kept themselves in the money backed by the places giving them champions league access which added more money to them while everyone is trying to scrape a small amount to survive.

 

The SPL has once again whored itself out to Sky rather then deal with the problems, Neil Doncaster's bragging about the deal and saying how we must not upset Sky makes me feel dirty, it seems that priorities have been mixed up, in fighting for a small amount to survive in the current state the SPL has decided that trying to get fans back into the gates. I have just done a little calculation, for the extra that bottom place club is getting under the new deal (?180k) what would be the equivalent number of people needed into each game if you put a ticket at ?15 each, turns out it is just 700 people more a game. It is just wrong.

 

for me the really galling thing is that, assuming rangers come first, then the ?2mil is about 5% of their income. Should motherwell finish third then it would be close to %20 of their income. The system is not set up to make sure the OF get rich, it just there to keep the other clubs as poor as possible.

[Diego10]

It must be good then, because the media would never tell us anything but the truth, would they?

The media have the best interests of Scottish Football at heart and are absolutely not only concerned with the Old Firm.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

The media have the best interests of Scottish Football at heart and are absolutely not only concerned with the Old Firm.

 

 

That's utter shite, the media admit that they would barely bother about Scottish football in the absence of the OF. This has come straight from the mouths of Traynor, English and a few other journos on BBC's Paper Talk Radio Show. So are you just wrong or were they making that up?

[Diego10]

 

That's utter shite, the media admit that they would barely bother about Scottish football in the absence of the OF. This has come straight from the mouths of Traynor, English and a few other journos on BBC's Paper Talk Radio Show. So are you just wrong or were they making that up?

sarcasm my friend, sarcasm.

[heartsfc_fan]

A fairer split of TV money:

 

I'm all for awarding the team that finishes first. But also top 6 teams should get a bit more.

 

1st - ?2.1M

2nd - ?1.8M

3rd - ?1.65M

4th - ?1.55M

5th - ?1.45M

6th - ?1.4M

7th - ?1.25M

8th - ?1.15M

9th - ?1.05M

10th - ?0.95M

11th - ?0.85M

12th - ?0.80M

 

 

 

 

[The Comedian]

for me the really galling thing is that, assuming rangers come first, then the ?2mil is about 5% of their income. Should motherwell finish third then it would be close to %20 of their income. The system is not set up to make sure the OF get rich, it just there to keep the other clubs as poor as possible.

 

Also the insistance of 4 OF bloodbaths a season ensures the 4 games per team fixture list continues. In effect giving the greatly stronger sides 4 chances to pickup points against woeful opposition which in a league where everyone else is much of a muchness utterly kills any chance of another side winning the league.

 

Pish.