jamboinglasgow Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Finally got round to reading this article http://sliderulepass.net/bundesliga-youth-revolution/ It talks about how Germany changed back in 2000, the changes in youth football and how it benefited the national team and the clubs. Interestingly it says that for all the investment (70 million Euros a year at one point (which if you work out propotionatly to Population in relating to how much that would be in this country, then it would be investing 4 million Euros (or ?3.4m)) one of the most important changes is getting youngsters to play 4v4 games rather then 11v11, this has vastly increased the number of touches a youngster will have which was most noticably in midfield, it means that 10 years on Germany have some fantastic midfielders (Ozil, Khedira, Gotze etc) and top talent in the game again. They even look more likely to overthrow Spain in Euro 2012. And this has meant the league has prospered and it has become more competitive then most European rivals. Some decent points to debate there certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You could only pray that our clubs would ever take this long term view. I can't ever see it happening but I'd love to watch some German clubs get it right up EPL and La Liga clubs in particular in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You could only pray that our clubs would ever take this long term view. I can't ever see it happening but I'd love to watch some German clubs get it right up EPL and La Liga clubs in particular in the coming years. Well, I suppose the Man City v Bayern Munich Champs League group game will be a good barometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 give it up. not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 give it up. not going to happen. What's not? Kids playing smaller sided games, like they are now? Most under 12's I know of play 7v7 matches now, in small goals. Some are in 'non competative' leagues etc, others in competative leagues. Maybe the next development is yet smaller sided like 4v4. Why's it not going to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 give it up. not going to happen. I can understand that decades of backward thinking intransigence and mismanagement can have a soul destroying effect, but if no one even discusses these issues, we're going to be even pisher in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 What's not? Kids playing smaller sided games, like they are now? Most under 12's I know of play 7v7 matches now, in small goals. Some are in 'non competative' leagues etc, others in competative leagues. Maybe the next development is yet smaller sided like 4v4. Why's it not going to happen? Exactly, it is happening in Scotland. The SFA launched the player pathway intiative either this year which dictated how youngsters should be taught and play. Players from the age of 6 to 18 are split into 3 age groups (6-8, 9-12 and 13+) and and from a young age they play 4v4 or 7v7. This is on the SFA's website http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=442 The SFA seem to have a two prong way to bringing on better footballers in this country, the player pathway initative is for all youngster to get the basic skills sorted early, to give them a lot of touches and to build them up that way, while the elite performance plan will take the best in each region and develop through the new Performance schools (which will mean that at certain appoint schools, these elite kids will get football training before school, get a decent education through the day then have more practice in the evening) meaning that these players will get the 10,000 hours of football that experts say a player needs to become an elite player. It will take time for these improvements to really show a return, the SFA are using the year 2020 as the point they feel there will be a real difference. What needs to be done before that date is the clubs and leagues to sort themselvs out, and I think that may require the clubs making them financially sound and facilities ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swavkav Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Finally got round to reading this article http://sliderulepass...uth-revolution/ It talks about how Germany changed back in 2000, the changes in youth football and how it benefited the national team and the clubs. Interestingly it says that for all the investment (70 million Euros a year at one point (which if you work out propotionatly to Population in relating to how much that would be in this country, then it would be investing 4 million Euros (or ?3.4m)) one of the most important changes is getting youngsters to play 4v4 games rather then 11v11, this has vastly increased the number of touches a youngster will have which was most noticably in midfield, it means that 10 years on Germany have some fantastic midfielders (Ozil, Khedira, Gotze etc) and top talent in the game again. They even look more likely to overthrow Spain in Euro 2012. And this has meant the league has prospered and it has become more competitive then most European rivals. Some decent points to debate there certainly. youth football changing at a rapid pace, as of next season in england, all under 7 teams will be played 5 aside, with them going up to 7 aside at under 9, then 11 aside at under 13, I do agree with small sided games, as more time on the ball & all that, it is the way forward, as it gives the kids more time to develop thier skills , but more for me, thier confidence in thier own ability. so hopefully, more kids becoming stars of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Exactly, it is happening in Scotland. The SFA launched the player pathway intiative either this year which dictated how youngsters should be taught and play. Players from the age of 6 to 18 are split into 3 age groups (6-8, 9-12 and 13+) and and from a young age they play 4v4 or 7v7. This is on the SFA's website http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=442 The SFA seem to have a two prong way to bringing on better footballers in this country, the player pathway initative is for all youngster to get the basic skills sorted early, to give them a lot of touches and to build them up that way, while the elite performance plan will take the best in each region and develop through the new Performance schools (which will mean that at certain appoint schools, these elite kids will get football training before school, get a decent education through the day then have more practice in the evening) meaning that these players will get the 10,000 hours of football that experts say a player needs to become an elite player. It will take time for these improvements to really show a return, the SFA are using the year 2020 as the point they feel there will be a real difference. What needs to be done before that date is the clubs and leagues to sort themselvs out, and I think that may require the clubs making them financially sound and facilities ready. Their theoretical two pronged approach me look jolly fine on paper. However it falls flat when the coaches from the SFA get involved. From what I have heard it is garbage. They rarely use a ball but have the kids standing in positions on the field and then telling them what will happen at any given time. This from a friend who's son was at one session. Also I've heard very highly regarded ex-players walking out of the badge courses at Largs due to the lack of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well, I suppose the Man City v Bayern Munich Champs League group game will be a good barometer. For all the good things that have happened in the German leagues we still have Bayern getting all the other teams top players.It seems to have happened all my life and shows no sign of ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 For all the good things that have happened in the German leagues we still have Bayern getting all the other teams top players.It seems to have happened all my life and shows no sign of ending. i can't remember the last player Bayern stole from another German team? Gomez? The big team in germany can tell team like bayern to **** off when they try to unsettle their team, unlike the way teams like Man city just wave notes in the face of people under contract! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You could only pray that our clubs would ever take this long term view. I can't ever see it happening but I'd love to watch some German clubs get it right up EPL and La Liga clubs in particular in the coming years. But is it a true reflection of who`s country is better given most clubs these days are laced with foreigners? International football is acutally probably the only area of the game that reflects a country`s quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It won't work in this country, why? because at kids level football, the SYFA tried to instil the importance of skills being developed in youngsters & instructed the coaches to work on the technical side of the game eg: have soccer 7s have local teams play each other but in an organised set up (but not in league format) but what the SYFA failed to do was educate the coaches properly, far to many of them still foster the 'win at all costs' attitude thus, skills, equal playing time for kids, and the technical ability to read the game have been neglected, we have to educate coaches better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Football in Germany continues to grow @ both club level and obviously international level, also the game is priced at a level that most ordinary Germans can afford to attend, just look at the attendances. I was in Germany to watch the famous both in Munich & Stuttgart and had a ball, the german model still think about their fans, something that our clubs should look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Seeger Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 i can't remember the last player Bayern stole from another German team? Gomez? The big team in germany can tell team like bayern to **** off when they try to unsettle their team, unlike the way teams like Man city just wave notes in the face of people under contract! Neuer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD_JAMBO Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Neuer. Hardly stole neuer his contract was running out and he wanted to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Herbertson Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can only speak for what I've seen my son do here in Dortmund. He's been playing since 2003/4. I seem to remember the teams being quite big when he was little. Then it dropped to six at some stage. The team size then went up until at the age of 11, they go to 9 a side but crucially in the serious indoor training camps they seem to always play 4 a side, maybe 5 if the numbers are big. The trainers often play at the back and distribute the ball. It's one and half hours on skills and half an hour playing football with a lot of stops and instructions. At camps which are attended by about a hundred kids they train from 10 until 1-00. Occasionally after this they have a full game, open air. I've seen them play three twenty minute halves after a morning's hard training. I get knackered just watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Copy everything they do, right down to the uniforms and invading Poland. Too far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Football in Germany continues to grow @ both club level and obviously international level, also the game is priced at a level that most ordinary Germans can afford to attend, just look at the attendances. I was in Germany to watch the famous both in Munich & Stuttgart and had a ball, the german model still think about their fans, something that our clubs should look at. This times 20!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATW Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Football in Germany continues to grow @ both club level and obviously international level, also the game is priced at a level that most ordinary Germans can afford to attend, just look at the attendances. I was in Germany to watch the famous both in Munich & Stuttgart and had a ball, the german model still think about their fans, something that our clubs should look at. Yeah, I bet their TV deal helps though. Germany are one of the countries that depends on TV deals more than any other in Europe (except England). Without their TV deals their clubs would sink faster than a led balloon. Or, their ticket prices would be ?40 a pop within a week. Not a good argument is ticket pricing compared to Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yeah, I bet their TV deal helps though. Germany are one of the countries that depends on TV deals more than any other in Europe (except England). Without their TV deals their clubs would sink faster than a led balloon. Or, their ticket prices would be ?40 a pop within a week. Not a good argument is ticket pricing compared to Scotland. what? we are rather dependant upon TV money, our product is largely shite, and the ticket prices are ludicrous? It's possible the best comparison you can make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well, I suppose the Man City v Bayern Munich Champs League group game will be a good barometer. They have already beat them convincingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 what? we are rather dependant upon TV money, our product is largely shite, and the ticket prices are ludicrous? It's possible the best comparison you can make? The Germans have financial rules to hold down the % level of wages / revenues and also to place upper limits on debts. That allows them to use TV money to subsidise lower ticket prices. We are the polar opposite - we have no limits on wages or debts and as a result are totally reliant on TV deals and high ticket prices to enable clubs to pay higher wage demands. In Germany the players & TV serve the fans - here the fans serve the players & TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Germany basically had to change did they not because of the collapse of a previous tv deal when the tv company went bust just like Setanta.So really that's when we should have been looking into making drastic changes in our format when our Setanta deal went AWOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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