The only real alternative

[Spellczech]

?20 a month? No-brainer. Where do I sign up?

Think you'd need a bit more...like you plus 9,999 of your closest friends stumping up ?3,000 each just to clear the debt...

[gowestjambo]

Think you'd need a bit more...like you plus 9,999 of your closest friends stumping up ?3,000 each just to clear the debt...

 

No one, not the people who won 160 million on the lottery or any Arab Billionaire is going to buy the club and the debt of 30 odd million.

 

Every day, month and year Romanov loses money keeping Hearts afloat - it is in his best long term interest to cut his losses sooner rather than later.

 

IMO he is unlikely ever to recoup his losses, it all depends on what he would accept as a damage limitation exercise.

 

Once we know that we would be in a position to work out what costs are viable both in number of fans and how much we would need to invest.

 

It has been achieved by both smaller and larger clubs than Hearts........

[Biffa Bacon]

Interesting points, I would consider chipping in if it was a goer, however, I have some reservations....

 

Unity would be an almost impossible goal, some members would be elected to represent others and would soon be ridiculed and berated by others that did not agree 100%. Look at the threads on here and see the disparity in opinions (thats without donating cash and making important descisions about our club).

Previously we have watched as our must have players have been allowed to sign for other clubs (Ricardo Fuller, Lee Miller, Paul Hartley, plus many others... emotions run high, and maintaining a budget would be difficult under pressure to just stretch that little bit further in a speculate to accumulate fashion. How could we all get a vote in such matters, transfers would be played out in public or a select few would decide for all of us...much more pratical but impossible to please everyone, potentially leading to I'm not paying for things I don't agree with.. more division and splits.

Sorry for being so negative, but realistic in my opinion, I would be delighted to be convinced otherwise. And thats all if Romanov decided to sell, a thankless task in itself

[jock62]

Interesting points, I would consider chipping in if it was a goer, however, I have some reservations....

 

Unity would be an almost impossible goal, some members would be elected to represent others and would soon be ridiculed and berated by others that did not agree 100%. Look at the threads on here and see the disparity in opinions (thats without donating cash and making important descisions about our club).

Previously we have watched as our must have players have been allowed to sign for other clubs (Ricardo Fuller, Lee Miller, Paul Hartley, plus many others... emotions run high, and maintaining a budget would be difficult under pressure to just stretch that little bit further in a speculate to accumulate fashion. How could we all get a vote in such matters, transfers would be played out in public or a select few would decide for all of us...much more pratical but impossible to please everyone, potentially leading to I'm not paying for things I don't agree with.. more division and splits.

Sorry for being so negative, but realistic in my opinion, I would be delighted to be convinced otherwise. And thats all if Romanov decided to sell, a thankless task in itself

[jock62]

sorry hit wrong button but count me in for ?20 a month worth a try better than just watching us going doon the toilet

[gowestjambo]

Interesting points, I would consider chipping in if it was a goer, however, I have some reservations....

 

Unity would be an almost impossible goal, some members would be elected to represent others and would soon be ridiculed and berated by others that did not agree 100%. Look at the threads on here and see the disparity in opinions (thats without donating cash and making important descisions about our club).

Previously we have watched as our must have players have been allowed to sign for other clubs (Ricardo Fuller, Lee Miller, Paul Hartley, plus many others... emotions run high, and maintaining a budget would be difficult under pressure to just stretch that little bit further in a speculate to accumulate fashion. How could we all get a vote in such matters, transfers would be played out in public or a select few would decide for all of us...much more pratical but impossible to please everyone, potentially leading to I'm not paying for things I don't agree with.. more division and splits.

Sorry for being so negative, but realistic in my opinion, I would be delighted to be convinced otherwise. And thats all if Romanov decided to sell, a thankless task in itself

 

No one said it would be easy - but I am sure we could follow the example of cubs who are already run this way. Agreed Barcelona is hardly a comparison - but on a little research there are a lot of clubs who seem to manage fine.

 

And surely it is better than the shambles we are in at the moment!

[Sheriff Fatman]

Well,Vlad would have to agree on a much reduced sum to be bought out, and Craig Whyte bought rangers for a pound.....

 

Craig Whyte did not buy Rangers for a pound. He paid a pound to Murray, but he paid $19 million to Lloyds for the debts.

 

I always laugh when people say that Vlad should take a hit on the debt Hearts owe him.

[Sheriff Fatman]

No one said it would be easy - but I am sure we could follow the example of cubs who are already run this way. Agreed Barcelona is hardly a comparison - but on a little research there are a lot of clubs who seem to manage fine.

 

And surely it is better than the shambles we are in at the moment!

You are right, Barcelona are not the best comparison. A better one for your idea would be the SoH campaign that couldn't raise $1 million over the course of a year when the club was about to lose it's home. Thinking that you could raise something like ?3 million a year for ten years is laughable.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Craig Whyte did not buy Rangers for a pound. He paid a pound to Murray, but he paid $19 million to Lloyds for the debts.

 

I always laugh when people say that Vlad should take a hit on the debt Hearts owe him.

Do you think he'll be able to sell the club without taking a hit on the debt?

[Sheriff Fatman]

Do you think he'll be able to sell the club without taking a hit on the debt?

 

He might take a small personal one, his companies are very unlikely agree to take more given the amount they have all ready ploughed in via the debt for equity deals and the like. Plus as a publicly listed company Ukio could be liable for legal action from their investors if they just right of debts of that size, especially in the current world economic state.

[Charlie-Brown]

He might take a small personal one, his companies are very unlikely agree to take more given the amount they have all ready ploughed in via the debt for equity deals and the like. Plus as a publicly listed company Ukio could be liable for legal action from their investors if they just right of debts of that size, especially in the current world economic state.

 

Sheriff Fatman - UBIG moved HMFC debt out of Ukio Bankas and it's now held by UBIG itself - presumably becuase the quality of loans didn't meet commercial lending criteriia and standards for a publicly listed company like Ukio Bankas so that's a non-argument it simply no longer applies.

 

Hearts have negative net worth - in short that means the liabilities exceed the value of the assets or in layman's terms the value of the assets simply doesn't cover the value of the debts so UNLESS UBIG can convince somebody to take on Hearts debts (but why would they?) then UBIG face a big haircut on Hearts debt - I estimate by approx 50% will require to be written down or written off as it simply cannot be collected. Their only real chance to recover their ?30M debt is to write off ?15M, exercise their floating charge and take ownership of Tynecastle stadium in lieu of ?15M remaining debt meaning Hearts debt would reduce to zero however by renting Tynecastle back to Hearts for 10 seasons at ?1.5M per season UBIG could recover the ?15M they had to write off as described above.

[HMFC4ME]

]List of fan-owned sports teams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

We would not be alone..............

 

i spotted a link to this page here

 

http://www.myfootballclub.co.uk/

 

sounds quite an interesting idea

 

 

Also, if it cost me ?20 a month to see hearts do well then Im in

[Sheriff Fatman]

Sheriff Fatman - UBIG moved HMFC debt out of Ukio Bankas and it's now held by UBIG itself - presumably becuase the quality of loans didn't meet commercial lending criteriia and standards for a publicly listed company like Ukio Bankas so that's a non-argument it simply no longer applies.

 

Hearts have negative net worth - in short that means the liabilities exceed the value of the assets or in layman's terms the value of the assets simply doesn't cover the value of the debts so UNLESS UBIG can convince somebody to take on Hearts debts (but why would they?) then UBIG face a big haircut on Hearts debt - I estimate by approx 50% will require to be written down or written off as it simply cannot be collected. Their only real chance to recover their ?30M debt is to write off ?15M, exercise their floating charge and take ownership of Tynecastle stadium in lieu of ?15M remaining debt meaning Hearts debt would reduce to zero however by renting Tynecastle back to Hearts for 10 seasons at ?1.5M per season UBIG could recover the ?15M they had to write off as described above.

 

The land is not worth as much as it was just now, it will be worth more in the future. UBIG could just shut down the entire club and wait for land prices to increase to a level where they retrieve their money. UBIG have already written off a large amount of Hearts debt, I seriously doubt they would be rushing to right of tens of millions more.

 

There has not been a single sensible or workable suggestion as to who would buy the club from Vlad anyway, so the entire conversation is just an exercise in pointless speculation.

[kennyblack'sshot]

The land is not worth as much as it was just now, it will be worth more in the future. UBIG could just shut down the entire club and wait for land prices to increase to a level where they retrieve their money. UBIG have already written off a large amount of Hearts debt, I seriously doubt they would be rushing to right of tens of millions more.

 

There has not been a single sensible or workable suggestion as to who would buy the club from Vlad anyway, so the entire conversation is just an exercise in pointless speculation.

 

This is also why a land swap is a better deal for the council than Hearts - no matter how the papers choose to spin it.

[Charlie-Brown]

This is also why a land swap is a better deal for the council than Hearts - no matter how the papers choose to spin it.

 

This is illogical - it is simply not possible for either party to swap land of a higher value for land of a lower value. That would mean that either Hearts shareholders or else City of Edinburgh Tax-payers were essentially being fiddled/robbed/disadvantaged and almost certainly open to a legal challenge or interdict.

[topcat]

Craig Whyte did not buy Rangers for a pound. He paid a pound to Murray, but he paid $19 million to Lloyds for the debts.

 

I always laugh when people say that Vlad should take a hit on the debt Hearts owe him.

 

 

Easily amused post IMO

[Victor Meldrew]

I don't think that the circumstances are right at the moment for a fans' buy-out, but I don't think that the idea should be dismissed in the medium to long term.

 

In order to get Vlad to go, he'll need some form of return on investment. The obvious source of money is Tynecastle. Split the club from the ground and there is the possibility (perhaps) of getting Vlad to let the club go to the fans.

 

That leaves the club homeless though. We would therefore need some form of community stadium that is being talked of at the moment. The one upside is that building a community stadium for a fan owned club is far more palatable than for the plaything of a foreign businessman.

 

A fan-owned club (without its main asset of a ground) would also need to live within its means (nothing substantial to borrow against) and therefore playing costs would have to be reduced. That means a focus on youth which is no bad thing.

 

Ultimately, I think it would be a good thing, but there would be a lot of difficulties getting there.

[Charlie-Brown]

I don't think that the circumstances are right at the moment for a fans' buy-out, but I don't think that the idea should be dismissed in the medium to long term.

 

In order to get Vlad to go, he'll need some form of return on investment. The obvious source of money is Tynecastle. Split the club from the ground and there is the possibility (perhaps) of getting Vlad to let the club go to the fans.

 

That leaves the club homeless though. We would therefore need some form of community stadium that is being talked of at the moment. The one upside is that building a community stadium for a fan owned club is far more palatable than for the plaything of a foreign businessman.

 

A fan-owned club (without its main asset of a ground) would also need to live within its means (nothing substantial to borrow against) and therefore playing costs would have to be reduced. That means a focus on youth which is no bad thing.

 

Ultimately, I think it would be a good thing, but there would be a lot of difficulties getting there.

 

Romanov & UBIG can either look to cut all ties with HMFC as quickly as they possibly can or else they can seek to maximise the amount of money they can recoup from their investment & involvement with HMFC which are at this moment in time are 2 mutually exclusive goals.

 

UBIG bailing out quickly would involve taking a massive haircut on debt and selling Tynecastle stadium in a depressed property market.

 

IF they want to maximise the amount they can recoup then by my reckoning they need to do the following;

 

1. Write off approx 50% of HMFC debt and take ownership of Tynecastle stadium in lieu of the remaining debt.

 

2. HMFC would now be virtually debt free but also minus their main asset (Tynecastle) however this would make the cost of buying HMFC much lower which should serve to increase the number of potentially interested parties & those able to afford to buy.

 

3. As HMFC income / expenditure is so far out of kilter a big restructuring job has to be undertaken to slash costs & ensure the club can live within it's means. Nobody is going to finance newstadium with Hearts as major tenants or part-owners on the back of 10-15 years of almost continuous financial losses and over-spends. We have to learn to become prudent, live within our means and prove that we could reliably repay any rent or commercial interest charges that would be required for a new community stadium.

 

4. A new community stadium is a highly speculative investment and given current depressed economic circumstances it is a venture that's highly unlkely to be funded and built within the next 5 years and it could conceivable be 2020 or beyond before finances and construction of any new stadium was ready. Therefore HMFC & UBIG could seek to agree a 5-10 year lease for Tynecastle for an annual rent of somewhere in the region of ?1M to ?1.5M per year giving HMFC exclusive use of the stadium and also naming & sponsorship rights. UBIG would then collect somewhere between ?7.5M-?15M in rent over the next decade which would see them recoup a large part of the debt they previously had to write off.

 

5. At the end of the 5-10 year lease HMFC should have fully investigated the viability and possibilities of any new stadium ventures been able to secure a site and funding etc or if this is not achievabel and vaiable then decided to remain put and seek to put in place a long term lease or buy-back agreement for Tynecastle stadium so that the club can regain ownership of Tynecastle probably gradually over a couple of decades on a repayment mortgage or else seek to raise enough new capital to buy it back outright. This is the least cost solution for HMFC and best long term option for UBIG to recoup their ?30M+ debt from HMFC.

 

6. Whoever owns HMFC going forward be that UBIG or new owners or a full or partial fans buy-out then some tough choices have to be made, costs cut radically to ensure the club's continued existence and the Tynecastle question - stay or go must be answered definitively and properly funded long term plans and savings/finances put in place and adhered to achieve these ends.

 

My predicition is that we will remain at Tynecastle and in a few years a plan will be put in place to repair & make safe the main stand or else put up a modest replacement.

 

It might not be Mr Romanov's currently intended goal or preference but my money is on his long-term legacy of his involvement with HMFC finally being remaining as the man who saved Tynecastle stadium from the wrecking ball and it's continued existence (even if ownership changes).

[Charlie-Brown]

double post!

[NextGenerationJambo]

I'm 16, still in school and would be more than happy to pay a fiver a month!

 

at this moment in time there are NO short term options to reduce the debt and ultimately gain success!

its a hugely viable and proven method and seems more achievable and realistic than any other options

[Italian Lambretta]

I really the idea of the club being owned by the fans. Its also possible that many small businesses would contribute regular income to the club to support this idea.

 

I would certainly consider contributing to this through my business with an agreed advetising level dependent on how much i would be willing to contribute. I would think that there ars 100's of small businesses that would do the same.

[NextGenerationJambo]

I really the idea of the club being owned by the fans. Its also possible that many small businesses would contribute regular income to the club to support this idea.

 

I would certainly consider contributing to this through my business with an agreed advetising level dependent on how much i would be willing to contribute. I would think that there ars 100's of small businesses that would do the same.

 

I agree entirely. It would not just be individual fans - this offers an opportunity for other business owners to contribute, and maybe even some Network opportunities!

[gowestjambo]

I really the idea of the club being owned by the fans. Its also possible that many small businesses would contribute regular income to the club to support this idea.

 

I would certainly consider contributing to this through my business with an agreed advetising level dependent on how much i would be willing to contribute. I would think that there ars 100's of small businesses that would do the same.

 

I am pretty sure this might even be a legitimate Business Expense!

[gowestjambo]

Shamrock Rovers and Cork City won the Premier and First Divisions of the Airtricity League in the past week.

Both clubs have come through some turbulent years ? at times flirting with extinction ? but are now owned by fans? groups.

 

UK-based Supporters Direct, a sports fan organisation, believe this model is the way forward for clubs in Ireland and throughout the world. Here?s why.

 

SUPPORTERS? TRUSTS AND ownership by the fans is not a new phenomenon in the League of Ireland.

 

Shamrock Rovers, as you will all know, is the most prominent example of ownership by supporters, and the recent resurgence of Cork City under a similar model is another cheering story. Lesser known is the long road being travelled by the Galway United Supporters Trust (GUST) in their restructuring of the financial mess at the club; pretty much the singular reason for their dire league season.

 

 

 

 

I also found this article whilst looking for similar examples............

[sandylejambo]

I cant see the problem with min ?5 per week per share but whats wrong with Multi share owners who can afford more than the minimum, surely this would plug the gap between the 15000 envisaged and the more likely 8000 who would, if Romanov would allow, he would also have to agree to stand down a bit year by year as he recoups his cash and forego his interest payments, which would eat up most of the money the scheme would bring in. I'm sorry if this has been covered in pages that I have skipped.

[gowestjambo]

I cant see the problem with min ?5 per week per share but whats wrong with Multi share owners who can afford more than the minimum, surely this would plug the gap between the 15000 envisaged and the more likely 8000 who would, if Romanov would allow, he would also have to agree to stand down a bit year by year as he recoups his cash and forego his interest payments, which would eat up most of the money the scheme would bring in. I'm sorry if this has been covered in pages that I have skipped.

 

No it has not ben covered, and I am sure others will want to contribute more if they can.

 

I have e-mailed the Swansea Supporters Trust who went through a similar project recently to see how they managed the process.

 

And unless a Billionaire is prepared to buy out Romanov, I cannot see another way he can at least recoup some of his money.

 

After all as each week passes he is losing more and more.........

[bighusref]

No it has not ben covered, and I am sure others will want to contribute more if they can.

 

I have e-mailed the Swansea Supporters Trust who went through a similar project recently to see how they managed the process.

 

And unless a Billionaire is prepared to buy out Romanov, I cannot see another way he can at least recoup some of his money.

 

After all as each week passes he is losing more and more.........

 

Sorry, GWJ, I have not been at a pc for a few days, been functioning off the odd mobile view. I won't dredge up your post and respond directly, but I will add to my stance, hopefully explaining my concerns.

 

I am in. I will sign up to ?20 per month to go towards supporter ownership/share purchase on (off the top of my head concerns) this basis....

 

• You (I aint doing it!!!) need to come up with a bespoke version of the Swansea style manifesto. Tailored to our club and our support.
• This manifesto must have some sort of clarity on how somebody is "elected" and unfortunately, possibly "removed from office".
• It must give me a breakdown of what is going to happen to my money. When I say that, I mean how long will we be paying before we make a "bid" and where my money sits until used.
• It must have some sort of plan to reach the greater Hearts audience, ie, outwith this website.
• It must have a contingency plan in place if you fail to receive sufficient subscription that I am reimbursed.
• It must have clear accountability for the monies.
• And, now here is the biggy, you need to establish if such an approach would be welcomed by Romanov. Also, finding out a target figure to aim for/achieve.

If you fail to do any of the above, I won't be in.

 

Let us remember, with fans chipping in ?500, we managed to bring in circa ?150,000. Your plan to reach farther than that club will need to be a big winner.

 

I wish you all the best, I really do, but I don't think there is any chance of this happening. I'd love it to, I'd love to do my little bit to contribute to the running of the club (obviously over and above the little bits I do now!).

 

p.s. Whilst I still don't think that this will work, if it does happen to work, as a suggestion, wouldn't it be a good idea to have an initial outlay to join? For example, ?50/?100/? on joining then ?20 per month? This would get monies in immediately.

[Eastender]

I'm up for this ... like bighusref would have to understand the detail of how it works for our club and agree that Vlad needs to be on side.

 

Why not add a poll to this thread to see what levels of interest there are ?

[gowestjambo]

Sorry, GWJ, I have not been at a pc for a few days, been functioning off the odd mobile view. I won't dredge up your post and respond directly, but I will add to my stance, hopefully explaining my concerns.

 

I am in. I will sign up to ?20 per month to go towards supporter ownership/share purchase on (off the top of my head concerns) this basis....

 

• You (I aint doing it!!!) need to come up with a bespoke version of the Swansea style manifesto. Tailored to our club and our support.
• This manifesto must have some sort of clarity on how somebody is "elected" and unfortunately, possibly "removed from office".
• It must give me a breakdown of what is going to happen to my money. When I say that, I mean how long will we be paying before we make a "bid" and where my money sits until used.
• It must have some sort of plan to reach the greater Hearts audience, ie, outwith this website.
• It must have a contingency plan in place if you fail to receive sufficient subscription that I am reimbursed.
• It must have clear accountability for the monies.
• And, now here is the biggy, you need to establish if such an approach would be welcomed by Romanov. Also, finding out a target figure to aim for/achieve.

If you fail to do any of the above, I won't be in.

 

Let us remember, with fans chipping in ?500, we managed to bring in circa ?150,000. Your plan to reach farther than that club will need to be a big winner.

 

I wish you all the best, I really do, but I don't think there is any chance of this happening. I'd love it to, I'd love to do my little bit to contribute to the running of the club (obviously over and above the little bits I do now!).

 

p.s. Whilst I still don't think that this will work, if it does happen to work, as a suggestion, wouldn't it be a good idea to have an initial outlay to join? For example, ?50/?100/? on joining then ?20 per month? This would get monies in immediately.

 

Too many questions just before bed! Happy to see what I can come up with. As I have already said I do not profess to have all the answers. However, if we can identify a model which has been proven to work - I do not see why we can not learn from them.

[gowestjambo]

I'm up for this ... like bighusref would have to understand the detail of how it works for our club and agree that Vlad needs to be on side.

 

Why not add a poll to this thread to see what levels of interest there are ?

 

Sounds like a good idea, how do you fancy setting one up?

[Mysterion]

Big felly - do you not think monthly contributions are just too difficult to do/track?

 

Also - would there not be a situation where there's a minority contributing.

 

I genuinely believe that anything like this has to be done in conjunction with the club as an annual thing and is best tagged into Season tickets. Anything over ?50 per annum is difficult for people to accept IMO.

 

The whole concept IMO has to be visualised/realised as a hived off debt with annual fees guaranteed going direct to paying it off.

 

This leaves the club to run as a separate entity with the debt in a negotiated account.

[bighusref]

Too many questions just before bed! Happy to see what I can come up with. As I have already said I do not profess to have all the answers. However, if we can identify a model which has been proven to work - I do not see why we can not learn from them.

 

Appreciate what you say, but this sounds like the polar opposite of some of your earlier posts on the thread. You refer to people doing nothing, attempting a rallying call to get things going, but this post suggests that you won't do it either.

 

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post.

[bighusref]

Big felly - do you not think monthly contributions are just too difficult to do/track?

 

Also - would there not be a situation where there's a minority contributing.

 

I genuinely believe that anything like this has to be done in conjunction with the club as an annual thing and is best tagged into Season tickets. Anything over ?50 per annum is difficult for people to accept IMO.

 

The whole concept IMO has to be visualised/realised as a hived off debt with annual fees guaranteed going direct to paying it off.

 

This leaves the club to run as a separate entity with the debt in a negotiated account.

 

Very good ideas, but, this aint my show, it's GWJ's. I should make this abundantly clear, I will subscribe, I will not run this.

 

To have the monies being part of your season ticket is a good idea, but that would have to be after fans have attained some sort of footing. If we are saving for a "bid", we cannot get involved with stuff like ST monies until we have had that successful "bid".

[gowestjambo]

Appreciate what you say, but this sounds like the polar opposite of some of your earlier posts on the thread. You refer to people doing nothing, attempting a rallying call to get things going, but this post suggests that you won't do it either.

 

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post.

 

OK you are forgiven!

 

Rather than make it as we go, I am trying to find a credible way this can be done.

 

That means not a knee jerk hastily arranged system that would be easily criticised.

 

As I said earlier I have emailed Swansea Trust, and I will try and contact others. There seems no point in re-inventing the wheel!

 

I did not have a ready made plan - I wanted to gauge reaction first, but I am happy to commit my time to see if we can make this work.

 

I have also e-mailed George Foulkes to see if he would help front the idea, I still believe this is a real alternative and I am prepared to accept advice from anyone!

 

This is a big job for one person.......

[Italian Lambretta]

You should also email Leslie Deans. I think he would be more than happy to look at anything that will involve the fans trying to take over the club.

 

 

OK you are forgiven!

 

Rather than make it as we go, I am trying to find a credible way this can be done.

 

That means not a knee jerk hastily arranged system that would be easily criticised.

 

As I said earlier I have emailed Swansea Trust, and I will try and contact others. There seems no point in re-inventing the wheel!

 

I did not have a ready made plan - I wanted to gauge reaction first, but I am happy to commit my time to see if we can make this work.

 

I have also e-mailed George Foulkes to see if he would help front the idea, I still believe this is a real alternative and I am prepared to accept advice from anyone!

 

This is a big job for one person.......

[Mysterion]

Very good ideas, but, this aint my show, it's GWJ's. I should make this abundantly clear, I will subscribe, I will not run this.

 

To have the monies being part of your season ticket is a good idea, but that would have to be after fans have attained some sort of footing. If we are saving for a "bid", we cannot get involved with stuff like ST monies until we have had that successful "bid".

 

I get that you aren't running it and obviously It requires some sort of foot in the door.

 

Put everything aside about who runs it - The opinion I was asking for is what do you think would work better?

 

A minority collecting monthly or The majority of the faithful once a year?

 

Cheers.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Assuming 12,000 fans pay ?20 per month this would equal ?2,880,000. Can't see us continuing to be an ambitious club on this kind of income.

[Italian Lambretta]

St Mirren and other small clubs are doing pretty well at a fraction of our budget so why cant we still do well. Its maybe about long-term survival rather than being ambition.

 

 

Assuming 12,000 fans pay ?20 per month this would equal ?2,880,000. Can't see us continuing to be an ambitious club on this kind of income.

[Charlie-Brown]

Assuming 12,000 fans pay ?20 per month this would equal ?2,880,000. Can't see us continuing to be an ambitious club on this kind of income.

 

JT1874 that would be the HMFC Membership schemes income not the Football club's income. The money the membership scheme raised would be used principally to buy a partial (or majority?) stake in the Football club and/or contribute to other HMFC causes like helping Hearts youth development or events for junior jambos etc. The purpose of the membership scheme is to raise money to buy influence and a democratic presence in the control of HMFC.

 

Heart of Midlothian Football Club would still be responsible for generating their own income ie via ST sales, match ticket sales, advertising, hospitality, sponsorship, stadium naming rights, merchandising & strip sales, match-day catering, stadium events, SPL League & SFA/SFL Cup money, selling players etc etc.

[gowestjambo]

JT1874 that would be the HMFC Membership schemes income not the Football club's income. The money the membership scheme raised would be used principally to buy a partial (or majority?) stake in the Football club and/or contribute to other HMFC causes like helping Hearts youth development or events for junior jambos etc. The purpose of the membership scheme is to raise money to buy influence and a democratic presence in the control of HMFC.

 

Heart of Midlothian Football Club would still be responsible for generating their own income ie via ST sales, match ticket sales, advertising, hospitality, sponsorship, stadium naming rights, merchandising & strip sales, match-day catering, stadium events, SPL League & SFA/SFL Cup money, selling players etc etc.

 

 

Well put Charlie, I could not have described it better myself!

[gowestjambo]

You should also email Leslie Deans. I think he would be more than happy to look at anything that will involve the fans trying to take over the club.

 

 

 

 

 

Good idea, I will contact him asap.

 

Thanks

[Jam Tarts 1874]

JT1874 that would be the HMFC Membership schemes income not the Football club's income. The money the membership scheme raised would be used principally to buy a partial (or majority?) stake in the Football club and/or contribute to other HMFC causes like helping Hearts youth development or events for junior jambos etc. The purpose of the membership scheme is to raise money to buy influence and a democratic presence in the control of HMFC.

 

Heart of Midlothian Football Club would still be responsible for generating their own income ie via ST sales, match ticket sales, advertising, hospitality, sponsorship, stadium naming rights, merchandising & strip sales, match-day catering, stadium events, SPL League & SFA/SFL Cup money, selling players etc etc.

 

 

So you are going to buy in to Hearts and run the youth development etc for less than ?3m?

 

How many shares in Hearts are UBIG going to sell to this fan's forum for the projected cash available? How many shares would this fan's forum actually need to have to "influence" anything?

 

Sorry but this is bonkers and I guarantee that nowhere near the amount of cash necessary would be raised. How much did Save our Hearts raise again?

[Jam Tarts 1874]

St Mirren and other small clubs are doing pretty well at a fraction of our budget so why cant we still do well. Its maybe about long-term survival rather than being ambition.

 

 

 

 

I very much doubt that many Hearts fans would be happy being St.Mirren! When did they last finish in the top 3?

 

You seem to forget that St.Mirren were able to move stadium from making money on the sale of their old place. Hearts are not in a position to do the same.

[Italian Lambretta]

The league table never lies, they are just 2 points behind us at moment.

They have built there stadium albeit with help from a major supermarket and now they have built a team on a smaller budget than we have but can still compete.

 

I very much doubt that many Hearts fans would be happy being St.Mirren! When did they last finish in the top 3?

 

You seem to forget that St.Mirren were able to move stadium from making money on the sale of their old place. Hearts are not in a position to do the same.

[Charlie-Brown]

So you are going to buy in to Hearts and run the youth development etc for less than ?3m?

 

How many shares in Hearts are UBIG going to sell to this fan's forum for the projected cash available? How many shares would this fan's forum actually need to have to "influence" anything?

 

Sorry but this is bonkers and I guarantee that nowhere near the amount of cash necessary would be raised. How much did Save our Hearts raise again?

 

You completely misunderstand. ?3M raised by a membership scheme would be the funds money not HMFC.

 

HMFC currently generate approx ?8M revenue each year from ST sales, League & Cup money, Sponsorship, merchandising etc. That is Hearts budget to run the football club & youth development.

 

 

regards the members ?2.8M raised - how much of HMFC share capital would that buy 10%? 20%? 50%? or 100%? That really depends on what value & terms Romanov and UBIG are looking for to conclude a deal. Hearts shares are essentially worthless indeed ownership is currently costing UBIG money every month.

[gowestjambo]

Sorry, GWJ, I have not been at a pc for a few days, been functioning off the odd mobile view. I won't dredge up your post and respond directly, but I will add to my stance, hopefully explaining my concerns.

 

I am in. I will sign up to ?20 per month to go towards supporter ownership/share purchase on (off the top of my head concerns) this basis....

 

• You (I aint doing it!!!) need to come up with a bespoke version of the Swansea style manifesto. Tailored to our club and our support.
• This manifesto must have some sort of clarity on how somebody is "elected" and unfortunately, possibly "removed from office".
• It must give me a breakdown of what is going to happen to my money. When I say that, I mean how long will we be paying before we make a "bid" and where my money sits until used.
• It must have some sort of plan to reach the greater Hearts audience, ie, outwith this website.
• It must have a contingency plan in place if you fail to receive sufficient subscription that I am reimbursed.
• It must have clear accountability for the monies.
• And, now here is the biggy, you need to establish if such an approach would be welcomed by Romanov. Also, finding out a target figure to aim for/achieve.

If you fail to do any of the above, I won't be in.

 

Let us remember, with fans chipping in ?500, we managed to bring in circa ?150,000. Your plan to reach farther than that club will need to be a big winner.

 

I wish you all the best, I really do, but I don't think there is any chance of this happening. I'd love it to, I'd love to do my little bit to contribute to the running of the club (obviously over and above the little bits I do now!).

 

p.s. Whilst I still don't think that this will work, if it does happen to work, as a suggestion, wouldn't it be a good idea to have an initial outlay to join? For example, ?50/?100/? on joining then ?20 per month? This would get monies in immediately.

 

In answer to some of your questions, I have contacted the Supporters Direct in Scotland. (This is an organisation dedicated to help achieve fans ownership) According to their website the following clubs have been saved due to their intervention Dundee, Falkirk, Stirling Albion, Morton & Raith Rovers. I guess we would be their biggest project so far!

 

Regarding you last point, if Romanov would not welcome an approach then all of this is academic! I believe Leslie Deans and George Foulkes would be the best people to approach him. However, if they are not I am happy to chap n his door!

 

Any money paid would be held in trust. Regards how long we will be paying for prior to an approach depends upon Romanov and how much we can raise!

 

I am aware there lies a far greater audience of Hearts supporters outwith this site, we would need to enlist former players to help with publicity. I am happy to supply 15,000 leaflets to distribute at a home game, detailing our plans and asking if supporters will commit. Actually I might need some help to distribute them!

 

Scott Wilson may not be adverse to helping - if it was possible at half time!

 

Any money raised would be returned in full if the scheme never took off.

 

Accountancy for the monies will I agree need to be transparent. I am happy if a firm of Hearts supporting Accountants offers their services - free of charge of course!

 

Regarding the initial joining fee, I am unsure how this will be received. My opinion is the easier we make it for people to contribute the easier it will be to promote the idea.

 

Regarding the manifesto I am sure Supporters Direct will have some advice for us on that point.

 

I trust this answers your points, let me know if I have missed anything!

 

Once I have any feedback from the people I have contacted I will let everyone know.

 

 

 

[Italian Lambretta]

A few interesting quotes from George Foulkes tonight in the EEN.

 

Basically, saying that we should be all be saving to save the club if it reaches a critical state and he is ready to help front anything that will help the club survive. He said he is willing to take a call from person(s) who require his help.

 

Cant post a link but if someone would like to do that?

[IMA MAROON]

Assuming 12,000 fans pay ?20 per month this would equal ?2,880,000. Can't see us continuing to be an ambitious club on this kind of income.

 

 

6,000 fans would be an achievement. Where does the 12,000 number come from?

[Remnants of Standards]

I think we should stop plucking figures out of the air, whether 6,000 or 12,000. The idea in principle is a good one.

How the numbers stack up will be down the line.

 

The club has been someone else's toy for years now. Personally, I've never felt as detached from the club in a way despite enjoying seeing players we wouldn't have had a hope attracting normally. However, if it means the difference between the club existing or not, then i'd be delighted to go back to being "honest triers" with the bonus of us all having a tangible stake in the club.

 

What has to be ascertained is whether UBIG would even accept such an approach, after i imagine having to revise downwards what they might think they'll get back.

 

Some money back for them might be better than none.

[J.C 7]

It would be great if an idea like this got off the ground.

 

Theres obviously doubters and those who will point to SOH to why this wont work but all I can say to those in a position to do or try something is to go for it otherwise we'll never know.

 

I think once the aims/objectives are put on paper and viewable to your average fan then this could grow arms and legs.