southside1874 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 OK, everything is fine. No crisis here - move along folks nothing to see. (You are not the Greek Prime Minister in disguise are you?) If you care to tell me what the crisis is? As Hearts fans do not riot at the moment or even hold any form of 12 man revolts then I'm afraid your comparison to the greek crisis washes over me mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 If someone missed 1 payment due to being made redundant, but had paid hundreds into the scheme. Money that was already spent. Would they forfeit their rights to be a part owner too? What if it was a choice between paying for their ST and your cash? It is like entering into any financial agreement - do you expect to end up owning a car if you missed payments? Would you ask these questions if you were a Barcelona supporter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 OK actions speak louder than words. At what point recently have you been led to to believe he is committed to Hearts long term? He is the owner who has sanctioned this ridiculous expenditure. Do you think all his companies spend more than they earn? Is this the basis on how we go forward in the future? Would you appoint him as Managing Director to run your company? If your 5th in the league and not quite playing to your potential and yet taking on the SFA and the stupid media..........................actions do speak louder than words from my view point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 If you care to tell me what the crisis is? As Hearts fans do not riot at the moment or even hold any form of 12 man revolts then I'm afraid your comparison to the greek crisis washes over me mate. Look Southside I am not looking for arguments, I was suggesting an alternative to the current regime. If you are not aware of the Greek crisis affecting the entire world, then I am not surprised you do not see the big picture regarding the future of Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dode41 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 OK actions speak louder than words. At what point recently have you been led to to believe he is committed to Hearts long term? He is the owner who has sanctioned this ridiculous expenditure. Do you think all his companies spend more than they earn? Is this the basis on how we go forward in the future? Would you appoint him as Managing Director to run your company? Ive not seen nothing that makes me think he wont be around so on that basis im not overly concerned about our future under his tenure. I would rather have him than someone who wants 14,999 randoms chipping in a fiver a week running my company any day. You started a thread saying Vlad was on his way did you not? Can you show me where he has said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Look Southside I am not looking for arguments, I was suggesting an alternative to the current regime. If you are not aware of the Greek crisis affecting the entire world, then I am not surprised you do not see the big picture regarding the future of Hearts. Its you that doesn't seem to see how the greek crisis has came about mate. Folk not paying their taxes. As Hearts have 12k season ticket holders then I suggest your similarity or analogy is futile. As I've said, your wish can only come true if Hearts go into administration. It seems to go against your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Ive not seen nothing that makes me think he wont be around so on that basis im not overly concerned about our future under his tenure. I would rather have him than someone who wants 14,999 randoms chipping in a fiver a week running my company any day. You started a thread saying Vlad was on his way did you not? Can you show me where he has said that? Can I suggest you read any of the recent Newspapers.................. (and only as an aside if he was committed to staying, what is going to happen differently to make us a successful team in the future?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Can I suggest you read any of the recent Newspapers.................. (and only as an aside if he was committed to staying, what is going to happen differently to make us a successful team in the future?) Newspapers.......................................on that note, I'll leave this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Can I suggest you read any of the recent Newspapers.................. (and only as an aside if he was committed to staying, what is going to happen differently to make us a successful team in the future?) That doesn't quite do it for me, strangely enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dode41 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Newspapers.......................................on that note, I'll leave this this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Its you that doesn't seem to see how the greek crisis has came about mate. Folk not paying their taxes. As Hearts have 12k season ticket holders then I suggest your similarity or analogy is futile. As I've said, your wish can only come true if Hearts go into administration. It seems to go against your wish. I will give the EU your number in the morning, its a mystery why they had not figured it out themselves! The world can now relax from the threat of contagion........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I will give the EU your number in the morning, its a mystery why they had not figured it out themselves! The world can now relax from the threat of contagion........ Was that not reported in the newspaper you read...............I wonder why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Gowest - your living in a fantasy world. Lucky to get 1000 fans agreeing to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 OK actions speak louder than words. At what point recently have you been led to to believe he is committed to Hearts long term? He is the owner who has sanctioned this ridiculous expenditure. Do you think all his companies spend more than they earn? Is this the basis on how we go forward in the future? Would you appoint him as Managing Director to run your company? Can you explain how fan ownership would work? Do we buy the club from Romanov with the first 3.6 million raised? Does every fan vote in a board of directors to run the club? Is the board made up of fans that have invested their ?20 a month or outsiders? Do the fans give the 3.6 million to the board every year to spend as they see fit? Do the fans vote for the next manager, signings etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Garcia Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Its a positive thought but as has been suggested unmanagable, especially in this current financial climate. Getting 15,000 to agree to ?5 a week is a big ask (yes you can give me the fish supper, couple of pints argument yadda yadda but people will argue they have paid there season tickets, bought the merchandise and they want there hard earned money, be it only a fiver to go elsewhere) especially if you want to throw in the 10 year agreement angle with the miss and payment and your out rule. It would be a logistical nightmare and admin costs alone would be high to keep it all in check. As someone says what happens if someone is that hard up its a choice between being a member of the club and paying there ?20 a month or getting a ticket for the match? The match will more often than not come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Personally I think you'd only wanting to charge ?20 per month to raise an initial amount (say a few million quid) that would enable a membership scheme to approach HMFC with an offer to buy a stake in the club and some representation. Thereafter it is my firm belief that fitba clubs just like golf clubs or bowling clubs should be largely self financing through it's ordinary activities and it is down to the board & management of the football club to sell enough match tickets, hospitality, merchandising, catering, sponsorship & advertising plus whatever league & cup money generated and use this revenue to run the club and meet costs which should (must always) be kept below income if annual losses & debt increases are to be avoided. As for a membership scheme - once a stake or controlling interest had been acquired in the club thereafter the cost should be quite low say ?2 or ?5 per month to attract as many subscriptions as possible and make club ownership as wide as possible. (some clubs have tens or hundreds of thousands of members) The goal of the membership scheme is to represent fans input into the club and provide oversight over the running of the club. The football club would still be run by professional managers & directors accountable to the membership counsel. The membership counsel would be a committee of members & prominent jambos / ex-players etc who would seek a term election and would be responsible for oversight of the club and liasing between football club & it's members. Ordinary members would vote in those standing for election to the members counsel and also would have 1 member 1 vote (assuming subscription payments are current and up to date). Important club decisions of major financial or historical nature 9ie stadium relocation) would have to be explained and voted for/against by the ordinary members. If golf clubs and bowling clubs members can own their sporting facilities and run their affairs properly year after year for decades then why should a football club be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I discussed this subject some time ago, and received mixed reactions. However, the fact remains that Romanov is now on his way with limited options to recoup some or indeed any money from this ill fated venture. Regardless of what we hoped he would bring, we all now realise that his vision - or pockets will not support his initial aspirations. This is not intended as an investigation of what he has actually achieved during his rein. I think it is apparent in the current economic climate that a multi millionaire is unlikely to appear as our new saviour! Lets face it as a club we have under achieved for decades, and always thought if only we had a Millionaire backer we would finally achieve what we felt was our rightful place at the top of Scottish & European football!! With the investment required in our ground, and our bloated wage bill we are not exactly a prime investment target! Do we as fans have the commitment and determination to take over the club and run it as a proper business? (I have already assumed Vladimir Romanov is not going to get a mug punter to buy this loss making business and for him to recoup his losses) So to a great extent this is an academic exercise based upon what he would expect to receive as a price to sell the club. We currently as far as we all know operate at a large loss every season. His business model is, even allowing for his eccentricities totally flawed. No business can spend more than it generates in income. The question is would we as fans be able to generate enough money to break even - or make money to improve the team? On rough guidelines would we be able to commit 15,000 fans to pay ?20.00 per month over and above the Season Ticket prices to own Hearts? 20.00 per month (?5.00 per week) = ?240.00 per annum x 15,000 = 3.6 million per year. Would this cover the shortfall in income we currently have? (Bearing in mind we pay ridiculous sums for very average players) Thoughts.........? We tried to allow fans to own the club by offering shares. It didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 We tried to allow fans to own the club by offering shares. It didn't work. The share offer achieved it's subscription and the money was raised and also a number of fans did buy shares (many still own them whilst others sold to UBIG) however the share issue required a reasonably large one-off payment or a loan which would naturally restrict those who were able to afford to subscribe as opposed to a much lower monthly or annual charge for a membership scheme. Also whilst share issues are notionally democratic it is possible for individuals to buy blocks of shares and voting rights and with enough money can buy the controlling interest so it is wealth based democracy not as representative as one member one vote democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The thread is well intentioned. The major obstacle is the existing Trust, which a number of fans find untrustworthy. Once bitten, twice shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 GWJ, Fairly certain I was involved in the debate last time you mentioned it. I felt it was a good idea but would never work. If I remember right, you got very defensive and almost retaliatory then as well. I had to type the words "I'd join" to get you to engage in debate on the subject. Learning from that experience..... I'd join. You'd need to bring a plan to the table, though. Oh, and I only see one completely negative responder, be prepared for questions, if this gets remotely near a launch the questions will intensify tenfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The thread is well intentioned. The major obstacle is the existing Trust, which a number of fans find untrustworthy. Once bitten, twice shy. I have long thought that the sustainable future for the club would not involve a pie tycoon or Russian oligarch. I would like to see a sustainable organisation owned by the fans and community with a strong constitution which stipulates: - the club will play at Tynecastle - the club will not be allowed to run at a loss - so the wage bill is not allowed to increase beyond season ticket sales for example - there is no net positive spend on transfers until debt is eradicated - the owners of the club entrust the running of the club (within the limits of the constitution) to professional managers - no owner can own more than 5% of the shares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Perhaps the FHSC or HoMST could invite speakers from perhaps a German or Dutch club to explain how their model works, how it is set up, their constitution etc and have a question & answer session? It's obviously perfectly practical and feasible given that some of the biggest clubs in Germany, Holland & Spain are owned & controlled on this basis. Literally dozens of clubs in Western Europe. I think the fact that HMFC have lost upwards of ?50M over the last 10-15 years necessitates that a more financially sustainable model of ownership and control is seriously considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 My tuppence worth: 1. You can't work an effective scheme taking in monthly subs. 2. Needs to be an annual membership - it reduces the cost. It also means a trade off in the amount that can be charged so it doesn't put people off. You do it at Season Ticket renewal time. 3. Realistically it would take upwards of 10-15years to get things remotely close to manageable. 4. Funds need to be guaranteed/ring fenced against clearing the existing club debt. Funds to be kept in a separate bank account. 5. The existing debt needs to be hived off IMO so the club can function easier. The membership is purely about long term payback. 6. Add a ?1 charge to all other ticket sales - guaranteed ?1 goes to the ring fenced funds. 7. Clear and transparent updates every 6months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambosr1985 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Maybe we could wheel Godsajambo to come out of retirement to run it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vanderlay Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I think we should all do this. And, when we have control of the club, asset strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 My tuppence worth: 1. You can't work an effective scheme taking in monthly subs. 2. Needs to be an annual membership - it reduces the cost. It also means a trade off in the amount that can be charged so it doesn't put people off. You do it at Season Ticket renewal time. 3. Realistically it would take upwards of 10-15years to get things remotely close to manageable. 4. Funds need to be guaranteed/ring fenced against clearing the existing club debt. Funds to be kept in a separate bank account. 5. The existing debt needs to be hived off IMO so the club can function easier. The membership is purely about long term payback. 6. Add a ?1 charge to all other ticket sales - guaranteed ?1 goes to the ring fenced funds. 7. Clear and transparent updates every 6months. Wow - you took this all way too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Why do people think they can participate, contribute and share in their local golf club or bowling club or Hearts Supporters club etc but not their chosen football club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 GWJ, Fairly certain I was involved in the debate last time you mentioned it. I felt it was a good idea but would never work. If I remember right, you got very defensive and almost retaliatory then as well. I had to type the words "I'd join" to get you to engage in debate on the subject. Learning from that experience..... I'd join. You'd need to bring a plan to the table, though. Oh, and I only see one completely negative responder, be prepared for questions, if this gets remotely near a launch the questions will intensify tenfold. i am thinking somewhere along the same lines as this. it's been a good thread all-in-all and the OP has afforded lots of goodwill along the way. but i think he's really just looking for people to agree with him and start banging the same drum. it's a shame that the goodwill shown towards the OP has been largely met with comments like "easier to moan about it than do something" and "sometimes i wonder if people want success". maybe it's actually easier live in utopia than it is to live in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Wow - you took this all way too seriously. I've given it some serious thought - and why not? I want to see HMFC prosper. I've even done the figures... they are horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ?20 a month? No-brainer. Where do I sign up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I've given it some serious thought - and why not? I want to see HMFC prosper. I've even done the figures... they are horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ?20 a month? No-brainer. Where do I sign up? PM sent with bank acc No. and s/c details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Personally I think you'd only wanting to charge ?20 per month to raise an initial amount (say a few million quid) that would enable a membership scheme to approach HMFC with an offer to buy a stake in the club and some representation. Thereafter it is my firm belief that fitba clubs just like golf clubs or bowling clubs should be largely self financing through it's ordinary activities and it is down to the board & management of the football club to sell enough match tickets, hospitality, merchandising, catering, sponsorship & advertising plus whatever league & cup money generated and use this revenue to run the club and meet costs which should (must always) be kept below income if annual losses & debt increases are to be avoided. As for a membership scheme - once a stake or controlling interest had been acquired in the club thereafter the cost should be quite low say ?2 or ?5 per month to attract as many subscriptions as possible and make club ownership as wide as possible. (some clubs have tens or hundreds of thousands of members) The goal of the membership scheme is to represent fans input into the club and provide oversight over the running of the club. The football club would still be run by professional managers & directors accountable to the membership counsel. The membership counsel would be a committee of members & prominent jambos / ex-players etc who would seek a term election and would be responsible for oversight of the club and liasing between football club & it's members. Ordinary members would vote in those standing for election to the members counsel and also would have 1 member 1 vote (assuming subscription payments are current and up to date). Important club decisions of major financial or historical nature 9ie stadium relocation) would have to be explained and voted for/against by the ordinary members. If golf clubs and bowling clubs members can own their sporting facilities and run their affairs properly year after year for decades then why should a football club be any different? Can I be on the membership council please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Can I be on the membership council please? I'd vote for you tc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'd vote for you tc Cool, The campaign starts here. Incidentally I've established that it costs ?12/month to be a Socio at Barca and they only let you join if your related to an existing Adult Socio Can I just point out that for this whole thing to have a chance or working we'd probably have to get somebody else to either buy the ground or build us a stadium and then lease it off them while we ran the football club. Possibly buying a bigger and bigger stake slowly over time under some form of Hire purchase deal. That way the investment partner would be making the boring but predictable investment with a big lump of real estate as security but we'd actually be able to get control of the club. When Vlad took over he effectively bought the ground from the bank for far more than he paid the Pieman for the club. It's not ideal but anybody whose ever moved out from their parents house into a rented flat will see the attraction. Especially if their parents house had a hole in the roof When Vlad took control he spent ?3-4m on taking control of the company from the pieman but five or six times as much on getting control of the ground from the bank. Attempting to drum up enough funds to buy both components outright now would be hugely ambitious but the smaller one could be possible, not easy but possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Cool, The campaign starts here. Incidentally I've established that it costs ?12/month to be a Socio at Barca and they only let you join if your related to an existing Adult Socio Can I just point out that for this whole thing to have a chance or working we'd probably have to get somebody else to either buy the ground or build us a stadium and then lease it off them while we ran the football club. Possibly buying a bigger and bigger stake slowly over time under some form of Hire purchase deal. That way the investment partner would be making the boring but predictable investment with a big lump of real estate as security but we'd actually be able to get control of the club. When Vlad took over he effectively bought the ground from the bank for far more than he paid the Pieman for the club. It's not ideal but anybody whose ever moved out from their parents house into a rented flat will see the attraction. Especially if their parents house had a hole in the roof When Vlad took control he spent ?3-4m on taking control of the company from the pieman but five or six times as much on getting control of the ground from the bank. Attempting to drum up enough funds to buy both components outright now would be hugely ambitious but the smaller one could be possible, not easy but possible HMFC were making losses when Romanov bought out Robinson and are still making losses, just even bigger now than before. Hearts have negative net worth, negative cash-flow and negative profitability and thus ownership is actually costing money thus the equity has negative worth ie essentially worthless. I reckon HMFC could be bought for a relatively low purcharse price if a deal could be done with Romanov & UBIG on the debt & the stadium. Regardless of what happens massive cost cutting is immediately necessary to stem losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A member based club is an interesting prospect, but it throws up new problems that a single owner club doesn't. As you have elections to vote in a president in a set number of years you have a new set of politics inside the club as rival factions appear. You also can easily have poor financial running under Presidents who are desperate to get re-elected so will spend over budget in their last year to appeal to members meaning the club is burdened later on. At Barcelona, when Sandro Rossell took over from Joan LaPorte he looked at the finances and discovered that rather then a healthy profit the previous year which Laporte had claimed, Barcalona had actually racked up massive debts. That is not to say there is not merits in the system, I do think if Hearts want to generate money from overseas jambos, then you could gain this from the membership system. So say for a ?70 overseas membership, a person would get voting rights, the ability to book tickets (I know you have to be a Barca member to buy a ticket) and also a years subscription to Hearts tv (thus allowing them to see highlights and televised games.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 What about creating a partnership with Vladimir Romanov? We create a society, put money in (an annual fee of ?200 or ?20/month), the society buys a share of the club from VR. Once we (the society) owns a share of the club, our future annual fees are used to invest in building a squad and/or covering any costs. We would elect a board of 7 members to have a say in the running of the club with every member having a say when it comes to important votes, sponsors, advertising etc. The benefits to this are we don't have to buy the stadium, we don't have to use all of our investment to pay off the debt, we are giving the club additional revenue to build a squad and stabilize the club for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I like the idea of fan ownership. My main disagreement with the OP is in seeing the membership subscription as a major source of revenue, and thus setting it too high. Barcelona give members a 5% discount on tickets for Real Madrid and major Champions League matches and 20% for others; see their website.. You can also get 3, 6, 9, or 12 match passes. Topcat has quoted the cost of membership at Barca as being ?12/month. A member who buys an expensive seat for 9 or 12 matches is going to recoup the cost of his membership through the discount on tickets. I agree with Topcat that a fan owned club would have to lease its ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A member based club is an interesting prospect, but it throws up new problems that a single owner club doesn't. As you have elections to vote in a president in a set number of years you have a new set of politics inside the club as rival factions appear. You also can easily have poor financial running under Presidents who are desperate to get re-elected so will spend over budget in their last year to appeal to members meaning the club is burdened later on. At Barcelona, when Sandro Rossell took over from Joan LaPorte he looked at the finances and discovered that rather then a healthy profit the previous year which Laporte had claimed, Barcalona had actually racked up massive debts. That is not to say there is not merits in the system, I do think if Hearts want to generate money from overseas jambos, then you could gain this from the membership system. So say for a ?70 overseas membership, a person would get voting rights, the ability to book tickets (I know you have to be a Barca member to buy a ticket) and also a years subscription to Hearts tv (thus allowing them to see highlights and televised games.) The examples of Spanish member owned clubs are not surprisingly less prudent or financially cautious as the German & Dutch examples who have constitutions and also League-FA rules mandating financial fair play & sound financial governance of clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Here is Schalke-04 club structure for those interested. http://www.schalke04.com/club/club-bodies/structure.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 GWJ, Fairly certain I was involved in the debate last time you mentioned it. I felt it was a good idea but would never work. If I remember right, you got very defensive and almost retaliatory then as well. I had to type the words "I'd join" to get you to engage in debate on the subject. Learning from that experience..... I'd join. You'd need to bring a plan to the table, though. Oh, and I only see one completely negative responder, be prepared for questions, if this gets remotely near a launch the questions will intensify tenfold. Thanks BH, Rome was not built in a day - I dont profess to have all the answers. Never the less I am happy to give my view to the people who dont think its a good idea. There are plenty of examples where such a system DOES work, so I cannot see why we could not make it work also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 What about creating a partnership with Vladimir Romanov? We create a society, put money in (an annual fee of ?200 or ?20/month), the society buys a share of the club from VR. Once we (the society) owns a share of the club, our future annual fees are used to invest in building a squad and/or covering any costs. We would elect a board of 7 members to have a say in the running of the club with every member having a say when it comes to important votes, sponsors, advertising etc. The benefits to this are we don't have to buy the stadium, we don't have to use all of our investment to pay off the debt, we are giving the club additional revenue to build a squad and stabilize the club for the future. Well said Statto. Heartening to hear not everyone thinks it is unworkable............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba gu Brath Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Would love this. Other clubs from Stirling Albion to Barcelona manage it. I'm sure I heard that Feyenoord - more our level than Barca or Real - were in similar circumstances to us and went for it. As Hearts are also a community then maybe even government help might be forthcoming. Crofting estates get it. I'm sure it would also bring out lots of older fans too. Even my auld dear who's nigh 80 and minds Bauld et all would give something. Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 After having a quick look at other examples, it appears that ALL Swedish and Turkish teams are owned by fans. Indeed they do not allow any other from of ownership! So there is plenty proof it can be acheived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Would love this. Other clubs from Stirling Albion to Barcelona manage it. I'm sure I heard that Feyenoord - more our level than Barca or Real - were in similar circumstances to us and went for it. As Hearts are also a community then maybe even government help might be forthcoming. Crofting estates get it. I'm sure it would also bring out lots of older fans too. Even my auld dear who's nigh 80 and minds Bauld et all would give something. Give it a try. The government set up "Supporters Direct" for precisely this kind of project http://www.supporters-direct.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The government set up "Supporters Direct" for precisely this kind of project http://www.supporters-direct.org/ I think the HMFC Supporters Trust if it still functions was a memeber of supporters direct they still have a website :- http://homst.com/default.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 After having a quick look at other examples, it appears that ALL Swedish and Turkish teams are owned by fans. Indeed they do not allow any other from of ownership! So there is plenty proof it can be acheived. The question isn't so much whether a club can be run on a Supporter owned basis it's whether it can be successfully transferred from one system of ownership to another. Barcelona are routinely quoted as an example of a club that successfully make the model work but it's so huge that if they were privately owned it would be practically impossible to raise the gargantuan sums that would be needed to mount a fans take over. There were murmurs of an attempt by Manchester United Fans when the Glazers were bidding but it would have taken the thick end of ?10,000 per season ticket holder At the other end of the scale. Stirling Albion supporters were able to do it because they didn't need to buy out the stadium and the 84 year old outgoing chairman was willing to write off a loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 The question isn't so much whether a club can be run on a Supporter owned basis it's whether it can be successfully transferred from one system of ownership to another. Barcelona are routinely quoted as an example of a club that successfully make the model work but it's so huge that if they were privately owned it would be practically impossible to raise the gargantuan sums that would be needed to mount a fans take over. There were murmurs of an attempt by Manchester United Fans when the Glazers were bidding but it would have taken the thick end of ?10,000 per season ticket holder At the other end of the scale. Stirling Albion supporters were able to do it because they didn't need to buy out the stadium and the 84 year old outgoing chairman was willing to write off a loan. Well,Vlad would have to agree on a much reduced sum to be bought out, and Craig Whyte bought rangers for a pound..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 The Role Of The Trust Swans Trust has a daily input into the football club through our Supporter Director. It has been agreed within the shareholders agreement that this directorship cannot be removed irrespestive of future dilution of the shares through further issue. Currently the Trust is the third biggest shareholder in the club with 19.99% shareholdng. The Swans work on a business model that is very much ?live within your means? operating on a tight budget that is dwarfed by many clubs at their level. Along with fellow directors, the club have not paid director salaries/expenses with all directors offering their services FOC to progress the club. It has long since been documented that we prefer not to spend money not due that season and the club record transfer fee remains at significantly below ?1m and until three years ago stood at ?375k in a day and age where even League One sides spend ?1m to buy players. Trust involvement at the club aside from day to day duties has included Involvement in acting on supporter issues with both club and stadium management Foundation of the annual awards dinner ? now the most popular event on the club?s social calendar Organisation and running of the only two open days the Liberty Stadium has ever held Maintaining of social events to bring the club closer to the community including fans forums in areas outside of the city Management of a bus service to bring supporters from West Wales to the ground Involvement in the reduction of season ticket prices making the club more affordable Involvement in all family fun days which has led to the club being awarded in this sector by the Football League Organisation of the fund raising committees that now sees the Ivor Allchurch Statue and Robbie James bust sit outside the Liberty Stadium Production of the Vetch Field commemorative box set marking our departure from the Vetch in 2005 Current organisation of the centenary collection which will mark our centenary in 2012/2013 Our first supporter director ? Leigh Dineen ? was appointed vie-chairman of the club and still now retains a directorship in his own right. It is hard to quantify further in terms of what the Trust brings to the football club but suffice to say that the directorship is one that allows for as much input as you would imagine a director to have. Conclusion So to summarise in answer to the original question without the work of the Supporters Trust there may well have not been a football club at Swansea City if it wasn?t for the work that went in to save our club. Critically now following that crisis the supporters and the community have a voice in the way the club operates which adds to that feeling of togetherness and trust that seems to be sadly lacking from most other clubs where fans are purely seen as customers. We add a lot more than money to the club; be it professional skills, a unique understanding of our heritage and community, volunteer time, check and balance to the financial strategy, two way communication between the fans and the Board ? the list goes on. From our own experience at Swansea we would urge the Committee to look to ways they can facilitate meaningful supporter involvement like ours at other clubs, and where a privately owned club fails to explore legislation that enables a new club to be owned or part owned in the future by the fans and the community. This is an extract from the Swansea fans Trust, I see no reason why we could not incorporate this model into HMFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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