Scotland have improved massively

[Martin_T]

No it wasn't. And the relative pessimism on here at the time of the draw said as much too.

 

Yes it was :-)

[shaun.lawson]

Yes it was :-)

 

Oh, you.

 

Pointless debate, though - because Levein ain't going anywhere. Could seriously do with a shave and some sort of fitness regime, mind. And lose the baseball cap too, Craig!

[shaun.lawson]

It may not be popular but I do think that quite a lot of Scottish (and English) supporters have little idea on the game in relation to overseas opposition and to a great extent the complexities of tactics (i.e. I think strikers are held as mythical beings who simply having two up front means lots of goals) but I know that may be a very unpopular view.

 

When English had finished destroying the guys idea of bringing Souness in to manage Scotland, the caller said well everyone has views and then asked the presenter what he thought on his idea in the hope that someone would agree with him

 

It may not be popular - but it's certainly true. For example, only in the UK is a corner always viewed by all fans as some sort of glorious attacking opportunity, from which a goal might well come. Sorry - but it hardly ever works out that way.

[Martin_T]

Oh, you.

 

Pointless debate, though - because Levein ain't going anywhere. Could seriously do with a shave and some sort of fitness regime, mind. And lose the baseball cap too, Craig!

 

Agreed, top managers project a professional image. Clean shave and uncovered bonce pleaded Craig.

 

Our World Cup qualifying group is IMO, the first in the modern era in which any of the teams could win it. Such is the improvement and potential of the Welsh and Belgians.

[david mcgee]

It may not be popular - but it's certainly true. For example, only in the UK is a corner always viewed by all fans as some sort of glorious attacking opportunity, from which a goal might well come. Sorry - but it hardly ever works out that way.

And if your Celtic a penalty is hardly something to be celebrated.

[Ulysses]

World Cup 2010 qualifiers: 8 games, 10 points, -5 goal difference, finished 3rd of 5.

 

Euro 2012 qualifiers: 8 games, 10 points, -1 goal difference, finished 3rd of 5.

 

Just before Craig Levein took over, Scotland were ranked 26th in Europe. Tonight, Scotland are ranked 27th, with a virtually unchanged co-efficient.

 

You might not call that failure, but it doesn't really look like success.

[shaun.lawson]

Agreed, top managers project a professional image. Clean shave and uncovered bonce pleaded Craig.

 

Our World Cup qualifying group is IMO, the first in the modern era in which any of the teams could win it. Such is the improvement and potential of the Welsh and Belgians.

 

Macedonia can't! And neither Wales nor Scotland will. 2nd's the best either of them could do; and anyone who knows anything about the history of Welsh football knows they'll need to win their last qualifier, at home to either Croatia or Serbia, in order to finish in the top two - only to choke and lose 1-2 or something.

 

Certainly agree about the overall unpredictability of the group, though. If anything sums up how difficult qualifying in Europe often is now, it's this group.

[jamboinglasgow]

It may not be popular - but it's certainly true. For example, only in the UK is a corner always viewed by all fans as some sort of glorious attacking opportunity, from which a goal might well come. Sorry - but it hardly ever works out that way.

 

I know what you mean, I remember this evening while in the pub, when it went out for a Scotland corner the people in the pub started applauding and cheering. When I watch Hearts play I rarely expect a goal from a corner, for it to happen it requires a mistake from a defender (as I am remember reading from the guardian's secret footballer, he said that most pretty much that and only in 5% of times is a player on the line actually required, yet people keep going on about putting a player on the line.)

 

It annoys me reading people saying when at home we must play 4-4-2 and then get angry when that does not happen. Yes 4-4-2 as a tactic can be used effectively but 4-2-3-1 can be even more effective at winning the midfield battle then using the 4 attacking players to push a quick break through or use the loan striker to unleash the 3 behind him (either through the two wingers/forwads hitting on the diagonal to get in behind the defence, or laying of to the attacking midfielder to unleash a shot.)

[david mcgee]

World Cup 2010 qualifiers: 8 games, 10 points, -5 goal difference, finished 3rd of 5.

 

Euro 2012 qualifiers: 8 games, 10 points, -1 goal difference, finished 3rd of 5.

 

Just before Craig Levein took over, Scotland were ranked 26th in Europe. Tonight, Scotland are ranked 27th, with a virtually unchanged co-efficient.

 

You might not call that failure, but it doesn't really look like success.

I thunk it all aboot wat you c on the park.

 

An tht to mi luke beter.

[HillmanHearts]

At the end of the day Craig made some mistakes along the way but almost, almost about managed it.

The positives were there for all ( but the narrow minded ) to see :

Players really playing for the country again.

Organisation.

Great work Ethic.

Togetherness.

Decent passing football.

 

Levein is an intelligent, hard working bloke

But it's a result's business - and at the end of the day we failed again.

The Glasgow rags need someone to blame to sell "papers" and they can't be bothered to look in depth.

Unfortunately they also have a huge influence on the sheep-like, moronic Old Firm orientated brain-dead man

in the Scottish streets.

So I have my doubts that he will be supported enough by the scum in the media to carry on the job he has started.

Which is a shame in my book.

 

Have to say - I kinda do not blame the Czeck fecker for diving - but I do have an issues with that arrogant **** of a Ref

who basically put us out of the play-offs.

He neglected his main duty of fairness out of an in-bred arrogance to influence the game. **** !

 

 

[Chester™]

It may not be popular but I do think that quite a lot of Scottish (and English) supporters have little idea on the game in relation to overseas opposition and to a great extent the complexities of tactics (i.e. I think strikers are held as mythical beings who simply having two up front means lots of goals) but I know that may be a very unpopular view.

 

 

It may not be popular - but it's certainly true. For example, only in the UK is a corner always viewed by all fans as some sort of glorious attacking opportunity, from which a goal might well come. Sorry - but it hardly ever works out that way.

 

Thank Mod Edit its not just me who thinks that! Anyone who follows Jonathan Wilson's writing will also understand this point.

[The Comedian]

I was delighted with the group.

 

Forget about Spain, the results against beatable Czech and Lithuania sides cost us dearly.

 

I accept changing managers hasn't worked so stick with Levein although my gut tells me his negativity will cost us again.

[meister]

Macedonia can't! And neither Wales nor Scotland will. 2nd's the best either of them could do; and anyone who knows anything about the history of Welsh football knows they'll need to win their last qualifier, at home to either Croatia or Serbia, in order to finish in the top two - only to choke and lose 1-2 or something.

 

Certainly agree about the overall unpredictability of the group, though. If anything sums up how difficult qualifying in Europe often is now, it's this group.

 

Is it better to be in a group that will have a clear winner and then hope Scotland can get a play-off place or is it better to get a group like this one where it's by no means unrealistic for scotland to take full points at home from these teams and then a few away ??

 

Forget who the manager is, our world cup qualification could be decided by the SFA getting suitable fixtures for us, it's that open. If that happens, I don't think Levein can have any excuses about not getting to the play offs at least.

[JamboJen]

Levein probably had a lot of "off-the-pitch" work to do with the squad when he got the job, similar to some of the work PS is having to with us since he arrived.

 

Morale was poor, there was no real team-spirit at all and Levein wanted to change the style of football we were playing as well. These things don't happen overnight in club football, let alone in international football where time to work on these things is at a premium.

 

I think someone said earlier that he didn't trust the players at first and I'd agree with that. There was probably distrust around just about everything to do with the national squad, including management, coaches, players and fans.

 

Most of the improvements in the national team have probably occurred in these off-the-pitch areas and they needed to happen first before on-the-pitch could follow, which I think it is starting to do.

 

New club managers always have talk of "transitional periods" and yet international managers don't seem to be afforded the same luxury despite the obvious limitations to their job. This campaign finished and we didn't do better or worse than expected. Yes, the Czech Republic might not be the force they once were but on paper they probably still have a much stronger squad and national pool than we do.

 

Levein should be given the next campaign to show what he can do and I hope he is successful with it. We have a crop of players coming through at the moment who could form one of the best squads in my lifetime and given that it seems Levein has laid the foundations in the campaign just finished, hopefully we can hit the ground running when it comes to WCQ.

[david mcgee]

I was delighted with the group.

 

Forget about Spain, the results against beatable Czech and Lithuania sides cost us dearly.

 

I accept changing managers hasn't worked so stick with Levein although my gut tells me his negativity will cost us again.

Did you seriously think him too negative against Spain in the two matches we played against them?

 

I listened to race horse trainer Ger Lyons, when asked about competing with A. Obrien, his reply was competing with the very best makes you better.

 

Does not mean that you act as a pacemaker for Rock of Gibralter.

[fabienleclerq]

Have to admit, I like the look of the current squad, there's a decent mix in there and I think we're at the "difficult to beat" stage (for most teams at least). I think the main difference seems to be the players attitude though, joining up for internationals doesn't seem to be an embuggerance any more and they want to play for Levein, that's half the battle I reckon.

 

Fed up hearing about no strikers in Prague, would kenny miller have defended that corner any better ? Would he **** !! I'm fairly sure we have lost in Prague before playing with a striker or two.WC group is going to be the real test of this squad, no hiding place for Levein in that one.

That czech team were there for the taking, would miller have defended the corner better is a pointless argument tbh.If we had even played 4-5-1 we would've had an outlet to get us up the pitch maybe even keep the ball and then we might not have conceded that corner.

 

Lith's away we should've went for them but he bottled it.

 

I do see the squad coming together and i would give him the chance to go for the next campaign but this one goes down as a failure, mainly due to the boss.

 

Did i here chicko say on the radio the 2016 euro's is 24 teams? Surely we must qualify for that!

[Rick Grimes]

its really very simple.

 

if you believe the job of an international manager is solely to pick the best 11 players currently available, sort out their tactics & send them out then Levein is a failure.

 

if you believe that the team isn't good enough for this approach you take a longer term view & try to build a nucleus of players comfortable playing together by promoting youth ahead of its time with the ultimate aim in the 2-4 year range of having a squad that can make a better push for qualification.

 

Levein's obviously chosen the latter & I happen to agree with him.

 

early mistakes in the campaign shouldn't be forgotten but they're not enough to bin him with absolutely no credible alternative.

[meister]

That czech team were there for the taking, would miller have defended the corner better is a pointless argument tbh.If we had even played 4-5-1 we would've had an outlet to get us up the pitch maybe even keep the ball and then we might not have conceded that corner.

 

Lith's away we should've went for them but he bottled it.

 

I do see the squad coming together and i would give him the chance to go for the next campaign but this one goes down as a failure, mainly due to the boss.

 

Did i here chicko say on the radio the 2016 euro's is 24 teams? Surely we must qualify for that!

 

Absolutely correct, but you could argue the 4-5-1 might have left us more open in that game and they may have won 2 or 3 nil. My point is/was that Levein will get pummelled for that formation, it's an easy target for folk who will never accept him as manager, but it was not the reason we did not qualify, that's all.

 

You could argue the penalty awarded to the Czechs at Hampden was more to blame if you were looking for a single reason.

[jamboinglasgow]

Levein probably had a lot of "off-the-pitch" work to do with the squad when he got the job, similar to some of the work PS is having to with us since he arrived.

 

Morale was poor, there was no real team-spirit at all and Levein wanted to change the style of football we were playing as well. These things don't happen overnight in club football, let alone in international football where time to work on these things is at a premium.

 

I think someone said earlier that he didn't trust the players at first and I'd agree with that. There was probably distrust around just about everything to do with the national squad, including management, coaches, players and fans.

 

Most of the improvements in the national team have probably occurred in these off-the-pitch areas and they needed to happen first before on-the-pitch could follow, which I think it is starting to do.

 

New club managers always have talk of "transitional periods" and yet international managers don't seem to be afforded the same luxury despite the obvious limitations to their job. This campaign finished and we didn't do better or worse than expected. Yes, the Czech Republic might not be the force they once were but on paper they probably still have a much stronger squad and national pool than we do.

 

Levein should be given the next campaign to show what he can do and I hope he is successful with it. We have a crop of players coming through at the moment who could form one of the best squads in my lifetime and given that it seems Levein has laid the foundations in the campaign just finished, hopefully we can hit the ground running when it comes to WCQ.

 

Completely agree with this.

[fabienleclerq]

Absolutely correct, but you could argue the 4-5-1 might have left us more open in that game and they may have won 2 or 3 nil. My point is/was that Levein will get pummelled for that formation, it's an easy target for folk who will never accept him as manager, but it was not the reason we did not qualify, that's all.

 

You could argue the penalty awarded to the Czechs at Hampden was more to blame if you were looking for a single reason.

It seems you are mentioning single reasons! 4-6-0 meant the czechs could keep coming forward leaving us much more vunerable than 4-5-1 where we wouldnt essentially be giving the other team the ball 99% of the game so i dont think we would have got beat by more. He made many mistakes and a draw and defeat against a poor czech team ,a draw away in kaunas and two poor games v leichtenstein is poor.

 

I would give him another shot but i can understand people wanting rid. He still wont admit 4-6-0 was a mistake ffs!

[Ray Winstone]

As much as a don't like the way Levein sets out his team - I would think we have a good chance if we keep him at the helm and keep progressing in this manner of making a decent effort at the World Cup qualifiers.

 

That dodgy penalty against the Czechs will stick in the throat though - we really should be the ones going through to the play-offs.

[Coco]

 

Not just that, but Coco - bless him - is even doing Levein for failing to take a point off World and European Champions Spain, a side who haven't failed to win a qualifying match since September 2007!

 

If you recall, the SFA actually stuck with Burley in the immediate aftermath of what, for me, was a far worse campaign. They got rid when, in Cardiff, it became clear he'd lost the players completely. Yet tonight, the reverse was evident: the spirit was all too apparent, and the team clearly want to play for the manager.

 

No the point is that would be a good result to get something from one of those games. I did not expect anything. There were no good results ie better than expected in the whole campaign.

 

The crucial thing in the group was the cowardice against Lithuania and the Czechs away. Tactical masterstrokes from Levein which led to us desperately needing to get points against Spain away.

[Rick Grimes]

He still wont admit 4-6-0 was a mistake ffs!

 

 

he admitted that ages ago.

[Nookie Bear]

Levein probably had a lot of "off-the-pitch" work to do with the squad when he got the job, similar to some of the work PS is having to with us since he arrived.

 

Morale was poor, there was no real team-spirit at all and Levein wanted to change the style of football we were playing as well. These things don't happen overnight in club football, let alone in international football where time to work on these things is at a premium.

 

I think someone said earlier that he didn't trust the players at first and I'd agree with that. There was probably distrust around just about everything to do with the national squad, including management, coaches, players and fans.

 

Most of the improvements in the national team have probably occurred in these off-the-pitch areas and they needed to happen first before on-the-pitch could follow, which I think it is starting to do.

 

New club managers always have talk of "transitional periods" and yet international managers don't seem to be afforded the same luxury despite the obvious limitations to their job. This campaign finished and we didn't do better or worse than expected. Yes, the Czech Republic might not be the force they once were but on paper they probably still have a much stronger squad and national pool than we do.

 

Levein should be given the next campaign to show what he can do and I hope he is successful with it. We have a crop of players coming through at the moment who could form one of the best squads in my lifetime and given that it seems Levein has laid the foundations in the campaign just finished, hopefully we can hit the ground running when it comes to WCQ.

 

I'm not sure any international manager is able to transform their countries style of play in just a few training sessions every couple of months - and I don't think it is their job.

 

You need someone who can organise a group of players quickly, get across a game plan and message clearly and use the strengths of what is available to them. Terry Venables was good at this, Redknapp may be the same - in Scotland Walter Smith showed he can do it.

 

If Levein is intent on changing the way Scotland play then he should be appointed as the SFA's Football Director (a job he may well be suited for IMO) as he can influence coaches and also have more long term job security than now.

[syndicalist]

There may be some slight improvements under Levein, but its negligible. I don't want him sacked because I can't see a replacement that could do any better. My issue is more with the players we are producing and who's reponsible for that. That's us missed out on seven final appearances on the bounce and we only made the play offs in one of those, the first.

 

Looking at the squad, recent past and present, and those injured or on the point of breaking through, and what stands out a mile is the lack of players grown by the old firm. You would expect to see half a dozen who were brought through the ranks at each of the uglies, but its just not happening. Hearts and Hibs have probably produced more in the thirteen years since France than either of them.

 

We need to produce better players, but while our two major clubs aren't doing it then I don't see things improving.

[Ribble]

At the end of the day Craig made some mistakes along the way but almost, almost about managed it.

The positives were there for all ( but the narrow minded ) to see :

Players really playing for the country again.

Organisation.

Great work Ethic.

Togetherness.

Decent passing football.

 

Didn't really see a lot of those positives tbh,

 

organisation? certainly not in defence!

Not sure if it is work ethic or organisation but we still stand too far off teams allowing them to play!

I'll give you that they seem to have more togetherness

Decent passing football? Wouldn't actually say that it is decent, it looks difficult and almost unnatural for them at times (similar to Hearts at the moment) with a lot of long balls forward or overhit passes that the target doesn't have the ability to control.

 

As for 2014 qualification, 3rd could be a push for us in that group,

 

Croatia with the likes of modric and krankjaer supplying eduardo and klasnic.

Serbia have a scarily good defense with Vidic, Ivanovic, Kolorov and Subotic

Belgium are looking better than they have for a long time with varmaelen, Van Buyten and kompany in defence, Hazard in midfield and Lakaku up front

Even the Welsh have looked much improved under Speed and were very unluck not to take at least a point from England

[Walter Bishop]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

 

With an ageing squad and a handful of inexperienced youngsters who was the last coach to take us to a play off?

 

Levein`s tactical ineptness cost probably the best group of Scottish players since the 90`s to fail miserably, the man is way out his depth and too stubborn to see he caused all the problems with his tactics in the 1st 2 matches.

 

Nothing from the whole campaign gave me any optimism about Levein, we struggled to beat Liechenstein twice and Lithuania once. The rest was a joke.

[Cut The Crap]

The campaign was average-to-poor, but I'd still give Levein the World Cup qualifiers to see if he can take the better quality of player we have coming through and the undeniably improved togetherness in the squad and mould them into a team to qualify for the finals.

 

Levein might not admit his mistakes (why should he? it just adds fuel to the media fire) but he does learn from them, as he showed at both Hearts and Dundee United. He desperately wants to manage in the EPL and only way he's going to achieve that from his current position is by getting us to Brazil.

 

Could be a win-win situation for all parties.

[The Comedian]

Did you seriously think him too negative against Spain in the two matches we played against them?

 

I listened to race horse trainer Ger Lyons, when asked about competing with A. Obrien, his reply was competing with the very best makes you better.

 

Does not mean that you act as a pacemaker for Rock of Gibralter.

 

The Spanish results are irrelevant. We were never going to pickup points in those matches. We did eventually attack AFTER we were more or less beat.

 

He was too negative in his first 2 matches which sunk us right away.

 

Dreadful stuff.

[theo1874]

Give Levein another chance at the world cup qualifying campaign, then make a decision on his future afterwards. If we get rid of him now, its a backwards step imo.

[cosanostra]

I think we may have improved marginally but certainly not massively.

We haven't had one decent result or one good performance in the whole qualifying campaign.

We look awful in the centre of defence, we have a very poor and unreliable goalkeeper and we really do miss an absurd number of chances.

Our manager has very limited ability to change things up when it's not working for us and he's proven in the past that his decision making ranges from poor to embarrassing.

The players do look more up for it and they do seem to be scraping out results even though they're not playing well which is an improvement from Burley.

 

A combination of bad management by Levein and downright cheating by the Czech team prevented us from finishing 2nd. There's no point in sacking Levein unless we can get someone better so I guess we're in for another qualifying campaign where anything can happen.

[Diego10]

The campaign was average-to-poor, but I'd still give Levein the World Cup qualifiers to see if he can take the better quality of player we have coming through and the undeniably improved togetherness in the squad and mould them into a team to qualify for the finals.

 

Levein might not admit his mistakes (why should he? it just adds fuel to the media fire) but he does learn from them, as he showed at both Hearts and Dundee United. He desperately wants to manage in the EPL and only way he's going to achieve that from his current position is by getting us to Brazil.

 

Could be a win-win situation for all parties.

 

Again, I agree with that. There has been undoubted progress in team unity and in the togetherness of the squad. It's a much tighter ship than under Burley. We also have a far better squad of players available.

But performances have barely improved except in patches, (we haven't produced a single good 90 minutes in the qualifiers) and results have not improved at all unless you count friendlies.

 

We look to be heading, slowly, in the right direction but he must show more ambition to win games in a very open group.

[4marsbars]

Seems to be a remarkable consensus here that things are going in the right direction and Levein should be given more time.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that if some refereeing decisions had gone differently we might have qualified.

[Guest Dipped Flake]

We have improved yes, massively no. But certainly heading in the right direction

 

My thoughts too. No fantastic improvement but we have gradually brought some new players in and seem to have a club spirit in the squad now. No way will Levein be sacked until after the World cup campaign

[Chester™]

 

We look awful in the centre of defence, we have a very poor and unreliable goalkeeper and we really do miss an absurd number of chances.

 

 

And that will continue to be our undoing, especially playing Caldwell in the middle. I just dont know what managers see in him as no one I know rates him.

 

McGregor isnt 'poor' but has a problem of massive brain farts in games which has cost us dearly. His mistakes are never highlighted and when they are you are accused of being churlish.

 

Missing chances is a major factor in us not being in the playoff with both Miller and Naismith particularly culpable. We simply dont have enough depth in forward positions though.

[rossthejambo]

Scotland haven't improved massively, we have an improved squad of players IMO, much more quality in the ranks (the likes of Bannan, Mackail-Smith, Bardsley are all vast improvements IMO, even that prick Naismith), but that doesn't seem to be showing on the pitch for some reason.

 

Results against Lithuania and Czech's at the start of the campaign have ultimately cost us, but I don't think sacking him because of those 2 results over a year ago is a good idea by any stretch.

 

Do I think we'll improve and qualify for Brazil with Levein at the helm? Probably not but it would be stupid to have another new face come in and go back to square one. At least give him a chance to build on this campaign.

 

 

[cosanostra]

And that will continue to be our undoing, especially playing Caldwell in the middle. I just dont know what managers see in him as no one I know rates him.

 

McGregor isnt 'poor' but has a problem of massive brain farts in games which has cost us dearly. His mistakes are never highlighted and when they are you are accused of being churlish.

 

Missing chances is a major factor in us not being in the playoff with both Miller and Naismith particularly culpable. We simply dont have enough depth in forward positions though.

 

A goalkeeper that causes goals at an alarming rate is poor in my book. He has shipped so many goals from his comedy blunders over the last couple of years it's getting ridiculous.

 

Neither Caldwell, nor Berra are close to being good enough for international level. We really don't have anyone better though.

 

You're correct about the number of chances missed by Miller and Naismith. Miller's awful misses vastly outweigh his no. of goals but we still struggle to find someone to replace him.

[Cut The Crap]

Again, I agree with that. There has been undoubted progress in team unity and in the togetherness of the squad. It's a much tighter ship than under Burley. We also have a far better squad of players available.

But performances have barely improved except in patches, (we haven't produced a single good 90 minutes in the qualifiers) and results have not improved at all unless you count friendlies.

 

We look to be heading, slowly, in the right direction but he must show more ambition to win games in a very open group.

 

Agree with your last point as well.

 

Levein's instinct is always to make sure the back door is secure, wait and see what the opposition has to offer, then try and exploit whatever weaknesses he thinks he sees. Sometimes it works, but sometimes his team is a goal (or more) behind by the time he's figured out how to play it. Needs to be bolder and try to take the game away from the opposition from the start.

[The Mighty Thor]

And that will continue to be our undoing, especially playing Caldwell in the middle. I just dont know what managers see in him as no one I know rates him.

 

McGregor isnt 'poor' but has a problem of massive brain farts in games which has cost us dearly. His mistakes are never highlighted and when they are you are accused of being churlish.

 

Missing chances is a major factor in us not being in the playoff with both Miller and Naismith particularly culpable. We simply dont have enough depth in forward positions though.

 

 

A goalkeeper that causes goals at an alarming rate is poor in my book. He has shipped so many goals from his comedy blunders over the last couple of years it's getting ridiculous.

 

Neither Caldwell, nor Berra are close to being good enough for international level. We really don't have anyone better though.

 

You're correct about the number of chances missed by Miller and Naismith. Miller's awful misses vastly outweigh his no. of goals but we still struggle to find someone to replace him.

 

Good points made above.

 

FWIW i think we should give Levein some time to develop the squad he has and see where that takes us. I doubt Mourinho would have got us through to the finals in this particular campaign.

 

In terms of the personnel I'd add comment to the above and raise the issue of Darren Fletcher. He's effective playing a specific role at Man U but when he's being asked to be creative in a dark Blue jersey he just doesn't do it for me. Some of his short passing last night was woeful (as was Adam's) and when you're up against a team like Spain the last thing you need is the ball coming back at you all the time. For Fletcher read Scott Brown a player who we always look better without.

 

perhaps the biggest thing to overcome is the realisation that we are in reality footballing minnows.

 

 

 

I think there are still some areas that Levein needs to

[Chester™]

A goalkeeper that causes goals at an alarming rate is poor in my book. He has shipped so many goals from his comedy blunders over the last couple of years it's getting ridiculous.

 

Neither Caldwell, nor Berra are close to being good enough for international level. We really don't have anyone better though.

 

You're correct about the number of chances missed by Miller and Naismith. Miller's awful misses vastly outweigh his no. of goals but we still struggle to find someone to replace him.

 

I think Berra suffers from the same problem McManus had at Celtic - he looks like he's out of position constantly, when in actual fact, he's covering Caldwell's backside.

 

As for McGregor, perhaps. You'll have to define 'alarming' rate. And I think the same type of point applies to McGregor as does Miller - until Craig is 'fit' and playing again, there isnt anyone out there who I think is any better than him, which again highlights our depth.

 

 

In terms of the personnel I'd add comment to the above and raise the issue of Darren Fletcher. He's effective playing a specific role at Man U but when he's being asked to be creative in a dark Blue jersey he just doesn't do it for me. Some of his short passing last night was woeful (as was Adam's) and when you're up against a team like Spain the last thing you need is the ball coming back at you all the time. For Fletcher read Scott Brown a player who we always look better without.

 

perhaps the biggest thing to overcome is the realisation that we are in reality footballing minnows.

 

 

Two excellent points. Fletcher hasnt been playing anywhere near good enough in a Scotland shirt to be a first pick, never mind be captain. His constant 'Mabaw' and pointing routine isnt justified either, and the same point applies to Broon as it did in my previous point about Caldwell. I really dont see what managers and pundits see in him.

 

The second point is highly valid. I sometimes think we, as Scotland fans, are similar to Aberdeen fans, in that there is a constant harping back to the 'good old days' when we were half decent. Well this is the here and now, and we are not good enough. Plain and simple. There are some encouraging signs but certainly nothing to get massively excited about.

 

I would like to see just how much Levein is doing away from games to give a proper, overall judgement of his tenure. IIRC, when he was appointed, he was to work with the Technical Director to help improve grassroots, strategy and everything else in between. Has he made any improvements?

[ToadKiller Dog]

You're correct about the number of chances missed by Miller and Naismith. Miller's awful misses vastly outweigh his no. of goals but we still struggle to find someone to replace him.

 

Miller has been a great servant for Scotland but i think playing his strengths limits the development of others more so fellow strikers .

In Mackail Smith , GoodWullie and getting back Stephen Fletcher in the squad we have 3 strikers that have enought to punish any team outwith the real top sides and even them at times but only if used properly ,a clean Oconner (hate to say it)would also be an asset . Barry Bannon will be a good player in time but as his age dictates he will be hit and miss just now .

Charlie Adam can be top class in games when given space .Darren Fletcher is a good captain .

 

Webster if he can put together a run of games could be an important player to shore up the defence alongside Berra and Wilson

Caldwell in not great . Our centre backs are not the highest , Craig Gordon hopefully will be back number 1 by the next qualifers where he belongs .

 

I think we have a reasonable squad if used to there potential to qualify some time soon .

[cosanostra]

 

As for McGregor, perhaps. You'll have to define 'alarming' rate. And I think the same type of point applies to McGregor as does Miller - until Craig is 'fit' and playing again, there isnt anyone out there who I think is any better than him, which again highlights our depth.

 

 

In the last few months, McGregor has caused goals with comedy blundering against Ireland

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/8545211/Republic-of-Ireland-1-Scotland-0-match-report.html

 

Denmark

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/14438700.stm

 

and last night's first goal against Spain.

 

The other games we've played in the last few months were against Lithuania, Liechtenstein and the Czechs.

 

The way I see it, he's causing us one goal, every 2nd game with a blunder that an amateur goalkeeper would be embarrassed with. He also allowed a hilarious goal for Celtic against Rangers in the recent Old Firm game.

 

I can't think who we'd replace him with as we have no one fit and better. I also doubt that Levein would have the balls to drop him as soon as Gordon returns as the media outcry would be enormous.

[deejtee]

Not anti CL but don't get the great improvement. It was not a hard group and rabbiting about seedings overlooks how bizarre these are at times eg our being in the top 20 at one point and nearer 100 not that long ago. Success could only be getting to the play offs. I would regard a group where we missed out to Italy and france as being a better qualifying campaign myself. Some minor progress from a dire start to the group..yes. More than that...no!

Jury out on how things will go and we can't just judge him against Burley. I think it will be a big big ask to qualify from our World Cup group and if we do, and CL is the manager, then that will be the time to feel good about our improvement.

[Chester™]

In the last few months, McGregor has caused goals with comedy blundering against Ireland

 

http://www.telegraph...tch-report.html

 

Denmark

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...nd/14438700.stm

 

and last night's first goal against Spain.

 

The other games we've played in the last few months were against Lithuania, Liechtenstein and the Czechs.

 

The way I see it, he's causing us one goal, every 2nd game with a blunder that an amateur goalkeeper would be embarrassed with. He also allowed a hilarious goal for Celtic against Rangers in the recent Old Firm game.

 

I can't think who we'd replace him with as we have no one fit and better. I also doubt that Levein would have the balls to drop him as soon as Gordon returns as the media outcry would be enormous.

 

And therein we have the problem, which goes across all the team.

 

I still wouldnt say he's 'poor', as poor to me equals 'bad' which I dont think he is, but he's certainly not the World Class keeper Gers fans and the Meedja would have us all believe. I think he's starting to regress a bit in all honesty though. He's not being picked up for his mistakes (of which I agree are many) and the SPL of poor standard that he isnt continuing any sort of development. There is no question that Craig is the better of the two when both are fit.

[Rudy T]

I'm not sure how anyone can suggest Darren Fletcher shouldn't play for Scotland - his influence on the park is there for all to see, his commitment is second to none and wait for it - he can actually play football.

 

It's not Darren Fletchers fault he's asked to play along side some absolute huddies - Scott Brown being the stand out huddie. Guys coming into the team from the Championship etc couldn't lace Fletchers boots. At least in Charlie Adam he has a guy who plays at a similar level and if they can get a run of games together I think we'll see more from the two of them.

 

He plays at the very top level of european club football, he plays in a team that move the ball, and more importantly players who move after they pass - far to often he's covering for others and left without a pass in that Scotland team. As for his pointing - its called being a captain and trying to organise your team - I'm actually surprised Fletcher hasn't given up yet, between the fans and the donkeys around him he tries to inspire to play football.

 

Seriously, just because Mackail-Smith, Miller, Naismith etc run about like headless chickens doesn't make them footballers.

 

Who would you rather have playing than Darren Fletcher ???

[jack D and coke]

Lithuania away was a sackable offence in its own right, not to mention prague and 2 games where we made Lichtenstein look like dark horses to win the Euros.

 

The question is who could we get who its better that would want the job. Lambert? Too earlg I would think. Unless we can tempt Smith out of retirement we're looking abroad again which after Vogts would have everyone on hia back from the start.

He was very negative in the opening game in Kaunus but we hadnt exactly set the heather on fire in the earlier friendlies. We'd been gubbed by an average Norway and although beat the Czech's it really was one way traffic and then a game against the Faroes so perhaps his cagey set up was slightly justified. In the previous matches in Kaunus I don't remember us playing all gung ho and blowing them out the water either. The Prague debacle I struggle to defend but again his inexperience showed both during the match and after it.

 

Like I say he's infuriated me but I don't think changing now when the team seems pretty close knit and united it would change an awful lot. He knows he'll get pelters if the WC qualifiers pan out in a similar vein.

 

I'm willing to give him a break this time.

[Doc Rob]

CL must make peace with Steven Fletcher, and soon. We don't have enough strikers playing at a high level to be able to afford to freeze any of them out.

 

Also, I believe CL is learning from his tactical errors, but he us acting like a spoiled child over the SF issue.

 

(I don't believe SF is a world beater, but he's one of the best options we have).

[Chester™]

CL must make peace with Steven Fletcher, and soon. We don't have enough strikers playing at a high level to be able to afford to freeze any of them out.

 

Also, I believe CL is learning from his tactical errors, but he us acting like a spoiled child over the SF issue.

 

(I don't believe SF is a world beater, but he's one of the best options we have).

 

They are both acting like children, though on this one, I've got more sympathy with Levein's view on the subject. Fletcher is the one who withdrew and is now making noises he wants to be selected. As he withdrew, he can make the first call.

[hmfc1440]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Now provide hard evidence of progress rather than this sentimental meaningless guff.

[The Mighty Thor]

I'm not sure how anyone can suggest Darren Fletcher shouldn't play for Scotland - his influence on the park is there for all to see, his commitment is second to none and wait for it - he can actually play football.

 

It's not Darren Fletchers fault he's asked to play along side some absolute huddies - Scott Brown being the stand out huddie. Guys coming into the team from the Championship etc couldn't lace Fletchers boots. At least in Charlie Adam he has a guy who plays at a similar level and if they can get a run of games together I think we'll see more from the two of them.

 

He plays at the very top level of european club football, he plays in a team that move the ball, and more importantly players who move after they pass - far to often he's covering for others and left without a pass in that Scotland team. As for his pointing - its called being a captain and trying to organise your team - I'm actually surprised Fletcher hasn't given up yet, between the fans and the donkeys around him he tries to inspire to play football.

 

Seriously, just because Mackail-Smith, Miller, Naismith etc run about like headless chickens doesn't make them footballers.

 

Who would you rather have playing than Darren Fletcher ???

 

 

The point i made earlier is that Darren Fletcher does a very specific job for Man Utd. He's there to break up play, to pressurise the oppositions midfield and win the ball back. He does this fairly well for them. He does this in amongst more creative players.

 

Darren Fletcher is not a 'creative' midfielder and typically the role he's being asked to play for Scotland is not the one he plays for Man Utd. If Levein was to play him in his favoured role then great he undoubtedly an asset to the team but he's much less effective when the onus is on him to be the playmaker as we saw last night.