Scotland have improved massively

[david mcgee]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I wouldn't say the improvements were massive , I would say it was CL that let himself down with craven tactics in the first half of the group games ,he clearly had no faith in the players in the squad .

Plus points is that i think the overall squad is more talented that it has been for many a year and thats a lot down to CL, I think CL maybe has been persuaded to play two up front at least at home against most teams after Mackail Smith and Goodwullie in the second half (though Spain had took the foot off ).

 

I hope he has learned because he now has a reasonable squad to work with ,failure to use that squad positively in the next campaign will set us back for another generation .

[GYL]

We have improved yes, massively no. But certainly heading in the right direction

[leginten]

No wish to murder the guy, as I've always had a lot of time for him. But the campaign has been a failure. That's the bottom line. And a failure in one of the weakest groups imaginable, with the Czech Republic still a force in name only.

 

The frustrating thing for me? When we have gone forward, we have looked capable and quite slick - more likely to cause damage to the opposition than in previous campaigns. We just haven't done enough of it - particularly in three key games, two of which were against the Czechs. Frankly, it's getting really boring watching us wait to go a goal down in vital games before we decide we can actually attack after all. And that's down to tactics.

[Coco]

Not one 'good' result in a whole qualifying campaign. No draws or better against Spain. No away wins in Prague or Lithuania. 2 scraped wins against a pub team in Lichtenstein.

 

Very poor.

[Hurooba]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Would you not accept that if he hadn't played the 4-6-0 against what isn't a great Czech team we would have had a better chance of going through?

[Spleedoink]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

[Sydney]

I think one of the improvements has been our ability to score goals (we score 5 goals against the top two ranked team in our group) - but we have definite defensive weaknesses - we let in 9 goals against the same two teams. Back in the days of Roxburgh and Brown, we were strong defensively and hoped to nick a goal.

 

Where have all the decent Scottish centre halves gone? Berra, as much as i like him as a former Jambo, is not IMO convincing at international level. Wilson has a lot to learn. Webster? Can he be trusted in big matches to not sh*te himself?

 

We've got some decent midfielders (Fletcher, Adam, dare I say Brown), and actually some decent forwards - although I would definitely like Fletcher back in.

 

Keepers - Gordon and McGregor are fine.

 

Defenders - that is our problem. If we'd managed one clean sheet in four games against the top two we'd have finished second.....

[Coco]

No wish to murder the guy, as I've always had a lot of time for him. But the campaign has been a failure. That's the bottom line. And a failure in one of the weakest groups imaginable, with the Czech Republic still a force in name only.

 

The frustrating thing for me? When we have gone forward, we have looked capable and quite slick - more likely to cause damage to the opposition than in previous campaigns. We just haven't done enough of it - particularly in three key games, two of which were against the Czechs. Frankly, it's getting really boring watching us wait to go a goal down in vital games before we decide we can actually attack after all. And that's down to tactics.

 

We have looked much better in the desperation phases after the sit back rope a dope strategy has failed.

 

One indication of the unbelievable negativity - on the bench tonight in a game where we just had to win there was only 1 striker.

[Sydney]

Would you not accept that if he hadn't played the 4-6-0 against what isn't a great Czech team we would have had a better chance of going through?

 

We dont really know, do we? We've slaughtered him for 4-6-0 (and in my opinion, it was a shocking tactic and anti-football at its worst), but maybe we'd have been pumped 3-0 if we'd played a different formation. We just dont know. Away at Lithuania was a worse result IMO.

[Spleedoink]

Levein loves Dundee United.

More importantly to him,he loves Houston,and did I say it already,Dundee United.

Any Dundee Utd players who Housty wants capped,or put in the squad Craig is the man.

Kenny Black,what a superb nobody as a coach.

Levein,legend?

Na,a great player yes.

He should have a shave,as only only continental managers with pedigree get away with that.

[eckyboo]

Would you not accept that if he hadn't played the 4-6-0 against what isn't a great Czech team we would have had a better chance of going through?

yes of course he blew it big time that night and he knows it, and 0 0 against a poor lith team away poor

[Munch]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

 

 

LEVEIN

[meister]

Have to admit, I like the look of the current squad, there's a decent mix in there and I think we're at the "difficult to beat" stage (for most teams at least). I think the main difference seems to be the players attitude though, joining up for internationals doesn't seem to be an embuggerance any more and they want to play for Levein, that's half the battle I reckon.

 

Fed up hearing about no strikers in Prague, would kenny miller have defended that corner any better ? Would he **** !! I'm fairly sure we have lost in Prague before playing with a striker or two.

 

WC group is going to be the real test of this squad, no hiding place for Levein in that one.

[Fozzyonthefence]

The campaign has been a failure - you just have to look at the results and performances which have mostly been abysmal. I do believe we have a better squad now, however, than we did a couple of years ago but that is not down to Craig Levein that is down to a lot more players playing in the EPL and less SPL based players. CL now has to make the most of that - to date he hasn't.

[Hurooba]

We dont really know, do we? We've slaughtered him for 4-6-0 (and in my opinion, it was a shocking tactic and anti-football at its worst), but maybe we'd have been pumped 3-0 if we'd played a different formation. We just dont know. Away at Lithuania was a worse result IMO.

 

I hear what you're saying we don't know for sure but as it was it didn't work anyway and it made us a laughing stock. We could and should have taken something out of that game.

 

Even against Lichtenstein we scored in what the 7th added minute? And your right the Lithuanian game was a shocker.

 

I just think he's far too negative.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

It's a good point about the players wanting to play for Levein. Compare this to the attitude under Burley and it's like night and day.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can say the campaign was a failure. We finished where we were seeded. It's like Hearts finishing 3rd and saying the season was a failure.

 

As has been said, we are lacking defensively and need Wilson to come through and be ready for the next campaign. Attacking wise though, we are looking pretty good for a Scottish team. Goodwillie and Makail-Smith looked so dangerous at points tonight.

[shaun.lawson]

It's a good point about the players wanting to play for Levein. Compare this to the attitude under Burley and it's like night and day.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can say the campaign was a failure. We finished where we were seeded. It's like Hearts finishing 3rd and saying the season was a failure.

 

As has been said, we are lacking defensively and need Wilson to come through and be ready for the next campaign. Attacking wise though, we are looking pretty good for a Scottish team. Goodwillie and Makail-Smith looked so dangerous at points tonight.

 

 

Not just that, but Coco - bless him - is even doing Levein for failing to take a point off World and European Champions Spain, a side who haven't failed to win a qualifying match since September 2007!

 

If you recall, the SFA actually stuck with Burley in the immediate aftermath of what, for me, was a far worse campaign. They got rid when, in Cardiff, it became clear he'd lost the players completely. Yet tonight, the reverse was evident: the spirit was all too apparent, and the team clearly want to play for the manager.

[jack D and coke]

Levein has done my box in with some of his tactics but the fundamental question is does he deserve another chance?

 

I believe he does and like others have said there'll be no hiding place in the WC qualifiers.

[david mcgee]

Levein has done my box in with some of his tactics but the fundamental question is does he deserve another chance?

 

I believe he does and like others have said there'll be no hiding place in the WC qualifiers.

I think he will get us through the World cup qualifiers with the team spirit he has built up.

 

Even after defeat tonight i feel as if we are on a roll.

 

Better teams than us will look at the Scotland v Spain games to see how to get the World champions beat because at times in both games we had them looking decidedly panicked.

 

Something that very few teams have managed against Spain recently.

[leginten]

It's a good point about the players wanting to play for Levein. Compare this to the attitude under Burley and it's like night and day.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can say the campaign was a failure. We finished where we were seeded. It's like Hearts finishing 3rd and saying the season was a failure.

 

As has been said, we are lacking defensively and need Wilson to come through and be ready for the next campaign. Attacking wise though, we are looking pretty good for a Scottish team. Goodwillie and Makail-Smith looked so dangerous at points tonight.

 

There's a massive difference. Unless the expectations of a Hearts manager under the current SPL set-up are ludicrously unrealistic, third is the best he can possibly do. That's more or less universally acknowledged. And third brings its reward - a European place. It's regarded as a success.

 

Third in a Euro qualifying group is not and never has been the remit of any Scotland manager. And third in this particular group of mediocrity was a failure. If we're saying that no campaign where we reach our seeding and no more can ever be regarded as a failure, we're never again going to regard not qualifying for the World Cup as failure, because as long as we keep failing to qualify for finals our seedings are going nowhere except down.

[Diego10]

No wish to murder the guy, as I've always had a lot of time for him. But the campaign has been a failure. That's the bottom line. And a failure in one of the weakest groups imaginable, with the Czech Republic still a force in name only.

 

The frustrating thing for me? When we have gone forward, we have looked capable and quite slick - more likely to cause damage to the opposition than in previous campaigns. We just haven't done enough of it - particularly in three key games, two of which were against the Czechs. Frankly, it's getting really boring watching us wait to go a goal down in vital games before we decide we can actually attack after all. And that's down to tactics.

Agree with every word of that.

[Sydney]

 

Not just that, but Coco - bless him - is even doing Levein for failing to take a point off World and European Champions Spain, a side who haven't failed to win a qualifying match since September 2007!

 

 

But......they're not as hungry as they once were....so maybe we should have taken points of them?

[Martin_T]

 

Not just that, but Coco - bless him - is even doing Levein for failing to take a point off World and European Champions Spain, a side who haven't failed to win a qualifying match since September 2007!

 

If you recall, the SFA actually stuck with Burley in the immediate aftermath of what, for me, was a far worse campaign. They got rid when, in Cardiff, it became clear he'd lost the players completely. Yet tonight, the reverse was evident: the spirit was all too apparent, and the team clearly want to play for the manager.

 

Football and indeed life Shaun, is not all about rankings, seedings and statistical probability. The world in which you inhabit. Scotland and Levein had the easiest possible group they could have drawn. Irrespective of who the no.1 ranked team was, we were unlikely to take points off them. A pathetic, limp draw against a poor Lithuania team away and a dismal failure in the head to head games versus a mediocre and declining Czech team mean that this campaign has been a failure. Make no mistake, this was a golden chance to reach the play-offs.

 

I don't think Levein should go, but he should feel under some pressure and I cannot help but feel that he looks at this campaign as some sort of success, when it patently wasn't.

[i8hibsh]

3rd and no majors before Levein and 3rd and no majors with him.

 

Improved?what a bunch of loser bullshit talk.

[Hurooba]

It's a good point about the players wanting to play for Levein. Compare this to the attitude under Burley and it's like night and day.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can say the campaign was a failure. We finished where we were seeded. It's like Hearts finishing 3rd and saying the season was a failure.

 

As has been said, we are lacking defensively and need Wilson to come through and be ready for the next campaign. Attacking wise though, we are looking pretty good for a Scottish team. Goodwillie and Makail-Smith looked so dangerous at points tonight.

 

You're probably right about us finishing 3rd but the Czechs were a poor 2nd seed and we had a good chance, in my opinion to overhaul them.

 

I wouldn't just highlight the Czech game, we struggled pretty badly against Lichtenstein, a really pretty poor side and we were poor againt Lithuania away, I think those performances say just as much and they were disappointing.

 

I'd still say things were a lot better than they were under Burley, but that's really not saying much!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

There's a massive difference. Unless the expectations of a Hearts manager under the current SPL set-up are ludicrously unrealistic, third is the best he can possibly do. That's more or less universally acknowledged. And third brings its reward - a European place. It's regarded as a success.

 

Third in a Euro qualifying group is not and never has been the remit of any Scotland manager. And third in this particular group of mediocrity was a failure. If we're saying that no campaign where we reach our seeding and no more can ever be regarded as a failure, we're never again going to regard not qualifying for the World Cup as failure, because as long as we keep failing to qualify for finals our seedings are going nowhere except down.

 

I see what you're saying but it's still not a failure. Finishing bottom would have been failure. We performed as expected, unfortunately. On that basis I can't see how the calls for Levein's head are realistic and think it's almost certain he'll get another campaign.

 

I also think folk are underrating Czech Republic a bit as well. They still have a few great players and are certainly better than us at the moment.

[Diego10]

You know what game cost us the most in these qualifiers? The friendly in Sweden. That game persuaded Levein to abandon any attacking intent in the opening games.

[david mcgee]

Football and indeed life Shaun, is not all about rankings, seedings and statistical probability. The world in which you inhabit. Scotland and Levein had the easiest possible group they could have drawn. Irrespective of who the no.1 ranked team was, we were unlikely to take points off them. A pathetic, limp draw against a poor Lithuania team away and a dismal failure in the head to head games versus a mediocre and declining Czech team mean that this campaign has been a failure. Make no mistake, this was a golden chance to reach the play-offs.

 

I don't think Levein should go, but he should feel under some pressure and I cannot help but feel that he looks at this campaign as some sort of success, when it patently wasn't.

I will laugh my heed off if the Czechs have a stonking European Championships because the very easy comment from the Chick Young types everywhere was to slate the Czechs as poor immitations of their former selves.

 

How do you, or anyone else know this as fact?

 

Are you all experts on Czech football?

 

I put my hands up, i am not, but i dont for a minute think it impossible that the Czechs are building a very good new team.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

 

I wouldn't just highlight the Czech game, we struggled pretty badly against Lichtenstein, a really pretty poor side and we were poor againt Lithuania away, I think those performances say just as much and they were disappointing.

 

 

Can't argue with that but on the flip side, we played better than expected again Spain at Hampden and in the second half tonight.

[Diego10]

I see what you're saying but it's still not a failure. Finishing bottom would have been failure. We performed as expected, unfortunately. On that basis I can't see how the calls for Luevein's head are realistic and think it's almost certain he'll get another campaign.

 

I also think folk are underrating Czech Republic a bit as well. They still have a few great players and are certainly better than us at the moment.

the Czechs are average. Bar Cech they have no great players. We could have beaten them twice with a different approach. Unless they get Estonia in the play-off they'll get pumped imo.

[leginten]

I see what you're saying but it's still not a failure. Finishing bottom would have been failure. We performed as expected, unfortunately. On that basis I can't see how the calls for Levein's head are realistic and think it's almost certain he'll get another campaign.

 

I also think folk are underrating Czech Republic a bit as well. They still have a few great players and are certainly better than us at the moment.

 

I think he will get another campaign and I'm pretty much in favour of that despite my feelings about this one. The points made about the need for continuity and also the improvement in team spirit are valid. Hopefully he will now know that he has a team that is at its best when it's making opposition teams uncomfortable in their own half.

 

I'm just gutted that it's now seven tournaments in a row. As someone who has always measured his life in World Cup-sized chunks, I'm wondering how many more I've got left.

 

[david mcgee]

the Czechs are average. Bar Cech they have no great players. We could have beaten them twice with a different approach. Unless they get Estonia in the play-off they'll get pumped imo.

Betting opportunity?

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Levein is one of the intelligent managers

 

He is still young as international managers go and he is clearly making improvement and learning fast

 

He is the best man for the job

Although he is more defensive and sets his team out not to get beat he does not do enough attacking and positive going out to win selections

 

I believe he will get us to the next world cup honestly , as we are more than capable of winning our home games added to Leveins gained experience and his maturing international team he is building , will get us to Brazil

[alanjambo]

I think it's harsh to criticise Levein too much. Yes he's made mistakes, but he's learned from them. He never went back to 4-6-0. It's Levein that found Makail-Smith and he really tried hard to get Andy Carrol to play for us. He has got the ambition to do well for Scotland.

 

I kind of write off the first part of the campaign. We were still a team demoralised from Burley's disasterous reign. It's clear that the team spirit is there now and that's hugely important. If we were to play Lithuania away now, I'm certain that we'd put on a far better show than we did a year ago. I have really high hopes for Scotland now. I genuinely believe that we'll be at the next world cup.

[Diego10]

I will laugh my heed off if the Czechs have a stonking European Championships because the very easy comment from the Chick Young types everywhere was to slate the Czechs as poor immitations of their former selves.

 

How do you, or anyone else know this as fact?

 

Are you all experts on Czech football?

 

I put my hands up, i am not, but i dont for a minute think it impossible that the Czechs are building a very good new team.

The Czechs will be an excellent yeam again soon, they have some outstanding youth players. The current first team is, by their standards, gash.

[shaun.lawson]

Football and indeed life Shaun, is not all about rankings, seedings and statistical probability. The world in which you inhabit. Scotland and Levein had the easiest possible group they could have drawn. Irrespective of who the no.1 ranked team was, we were unlikely to take points off them. A pathetic, limp draw against a poor Lithuania team away and a dismal failure in the head to head games versus a mediocre and declining Czech team mean that this campaign has been a failure. Make no mistake, this was a golden chance to reach the play-offs.

 

I don't think Levein should go, but he should feel under some pressure and I cannot help but feel that he looks at this campaign as some sort of success, when it patently wasn't.

 

Sorry - this is abject nonsense.

 

To start with, Scotland drew a side which has only gone and won both the last two major tournaments. Anybody at all would've been preferable to this; Russia and especially Croatia, somewhat vulnerable; while France, Italy and England all had appalling World Cups. The struggles of Les Bleus in particular, England to an extent, have continued.

 

Of the second seeds, the Czechs were by no means at all the worst of them. Romania have just finished an absolutely hopeless campaign; Serbia have just been eliminated by Estonia; Switzerland are as moderate as ever; Slovakia are back in decline after their remarkable achievements at the World Cup; Greece aren't exactly much kop either. The Czechs, who are actually now beginning to improve again, were simply a middling second seed.

 

Of the teams in Pot 4, Lithuania are certainly not noticeably worse than Latvia or Cyprus; and at the time of even the World Cup draw, never mind the Euro 2012 qualifying draw, Wales were so bad, they'd dropped into the bottom group of seeds altogether. Scotland didn't even draw a Pot 6 side for Euro 2012: they merely drew the weakest of the Pot 5 teams, Liechtenstein.

 

Where has this "easiest possible group" nonsense come from? Has it just been invented by folk or something?

[portobellojambo1]

Players who want to play for the jersey and a manager that knows what he is doing.

 

Anyone still out there that does not see progress?

 

The weegie press would have him out on his ear anytime bacause he aint old firm, but he has built a team ethos in very little time and has a captain who would walk over broken glass for his Country.

 

Such a refreshing change from welchers like Weir, Oconnor and Boyd.

 

We are far from the finished article and have no super stars but believe under Levein we can achieve much more than expected from a nation of 5 million.

 

He is learning all the time but learning fast, and for the youngsters on here that never saw "silky" play , i can tell you if it wasnt for injury he would have been right up there with Dave MacKay.

 

Craig Levein was and is a Hearts legend we should be proud of.

 

Now let the better informed murder the guy.

 

I think it is maybe an exaggeration to say the international side has improved dramatically, although it is difficult to know what you are using as your benchmark for that improvement. Has it been a disastrous campaign, not really not in terms of Scotland's placing in international terms. Has it been a success, absolutely not, success surely has to be judged as qualifying, and in reality I think it has been a chance missed. Outwith Spain the other teams in the group were all there to be beaten, and we didn't achieve good enough results against them. Maybe just me but I don't think there is any glory to be taken from the performances in Kaunas and Prague, nor the performances against Liechtenstein. While accepting we won both games against them, the home game was won thanks to a last minute/injury time header and we didn't exactly set the heather on fire at the weekend while winning 1-0 against a country whose population is slightly less than the population of Falkirk, and whose 'star' player, from what I read somewhere, started his proper job 2 hours after the game finished.

 

There again, I don't really follow international football as much as others do, so maybe those that watch the national team are witnessing an improvement they are happy with. Over the course of this campaign I've witnessed many performances which were just typical Scotland performances, similar to previous campaigns. And the opposition in the forthcoming World Cup qualifying group doesn't inspire much confidence. While some are saying all are beatable I would say equally these are all fixtures we shouldn't be surprised if we lose, or at least lose/draw a lot more than we win.

 

I would be inclined to say the national side remains in a state of unpredictability, a level we have been at for a while now. I don't think a change of management would alter things much one way or the other, I think it is more a reflection of the players we have available to us selection wise, which reflects in our standing seed wise in such competitions. Maybe it is wrong to only judge success by qualifying for the finals of tournaments, but then how do you quantify failure. Has our failure to qualify for the forthcoming tournament been a better style of failure than similar failings under the likes of George Burley, Alex McLeish and Walter Smith, at the end of the day we failed when they were in charge as well, I don't know how you differentiate between failing under one manager in comparison with failing under another, and then judge this failed campaign as a better type of failure.

[Gizmo]

We need to stick with him, as long as he has the players on side he can learn from this campaign. I don't see any really good choices waiting in the wings in any case.

[david mcgee]

Levein is one of the intelligent managers

 

He is still young as international managers go and he is clearly making improvement and learning fast

 

He is the best man for the job

Although he is more defensive and sets his team out not to get beat he does not do enough attacking and positive going out to win selections

 

I believe he will get us to the next world cup honestly , as we are more than capable of winning our home games added to Leveins gained experience and his maturing international team he is building , will get us to Brazil

I really hope he does, and after Bertie, Broonie, Roxburgh ( who were rotten) and McLeish and Smith who looked promising, ( but turned their back on Scotland for club teams) we now have a Hearts legend in charge, who has no intention of going anywhere else.

 

And the Jambo faithful support him fully?

 

Not!

 

You can fill in the blanks.

[Diego10]

I really hope he does, and after Bertie, Broonie, Roxburgh ( who were rotten) and McLeish and Smith who looked promising, ( but turned their back on Scotland for club teams) we now have a Hearts legend in charge, who has no intention of going anywhere else.

 

And the Jambo faithful support him fully?

 

Not!

 

You can fill in the blanks.

Brown and Roxburgh qualified for 4 tournaments between them. I wish we were that rotten now.

[jamboinglasgow]

 

Not just that, but Coco - bless him - is even doing Levein for failing to take a point off World and European Champions Spain, a side who haven't failed to win a qualifying match since September 2007!

 

If you recall, the SFA actually stuck with Burley in the immediate aftermath of what, for me, was a far worse campaign. They got rid when, in Cardiff, it became clear he'd lost the players completely. Yet tonight, the reverse was evident: the spirit was all too apparent, and the team clearly want to play for the manager.

 

Completely agree as well Shaun, I still think Scots underestimate the Czech in this group. I keep hearing people saying they are not as good as they used to be, but they are still that bit better then us. As much as international football is affected by tactics and luck, the pool of quality players is the biggest thing. Why are Spain world and European champions? Because they have some unbelievable talented players that play the same style and slot in, tonight Mata dropped out and Silva came in. Torres was on the bench while Villa played. Germany are the same, they have developed their pool so that it has created fantastic players. Bulgaria back in 1994 were some team, now they are a shadow of their former selves because they have no quality in their pool (with one or two exceptions.) Scotland has suffered since 1998 because the pool of international quality players dried up, the odd one or two (McFadden, D. Fletcher and Ferguson) came through and we struggled to come close, but not enough to qualify. Scotland under Levein searched for the next lot of quality, we had talented players in our squad already but Levein found Bardsley, Mackail-Smith, Jamie Mackie (though he has been injured but looked a great player) to the first team through searching deeper for quality Scotland players, crucially he has made the lower levels to do the same, bring these players in sooner, so in the under 21 team that played yesterday we had Liam Palmer who looked decent and Jordon Rhodes who looks a fantastic goal scorer. He also looked to promote young talents which could go far so Bannan, Hanley, Wilson, Goodwillie and Forrest. Get them in early and used to the set-up and you reap the benefits as they develop. Craig Levein has rightfully identified that the key to improving Scotland is getting the very best players as possible to play for us, it is a long term project and one which will give us the chance to push higher. With the SFA's long term strategy to get the most out of elite talent in this country it should put us in the right direction.

 

As you say team spirit is also crucial, the fact players are trying as hard as possible to come through injury to play is such an important difference. And apart from one (admittedly high profile) player no one has fallen out with him.

 

You might be interested to know that I was listening to bbc Scotland after the match and their phone in, one guy phoned up demanding Levein be sacked and replaced with Graeme Souness, Tom English tore what he called "the myth" of souness to shreds (did well at Rangers with money, has failed in every managerial post since) which is what you said earlier on in the week,

[Jamboy81]

Levein has done my box in with some of his tactics but the fundamental question is does he deserve another chance?

 

I believe he does and like others have said there'll be no hiding place in the WC qualifiers.

Lithuania away was a sackable offence in its own right, not to mention prague and 2 games where we made Lichtenstein look like dark horses to win the Euros.

 

The question is who could we get who its better that would want the job. Lambert? Too earlg I would think. Unless we can tempt Smith out of retirement we're looking abroad again which after Vogts would have everyone on hia back from the start.

[Martin_T]

Sorry - this is abject nonsense.

 

To start with, Scotland drew a side which has only gone and won both the last two major tournaments. Anybody at all would've been preferable to this; Russia and especially Croatia, somewhat vulnerable; while France, Italy and England all had appalling World Cups. The struggles of Les Bleus in particular, England to an extent, have continued.

 

Of the second seeds, the Czechs were by no means at all the worst of them. Romania have just finished an absolutely hopeless campaign; Serbia have just been eliminated by Estonia; Switzerland are as moderate as ever; Slovakia are back in decline after their remarkable achievements at the World Cup. The Czechs, who are actually now beginning to improve again, were simply a middling second seed.

 

Of the teams in Pot 4, Lithuania are certainly not noticeably worse than Latvia or Cyprus; and at the time of even the World Cup draw, never mind the Euro 2012 qualifying draw, Wales were so bad, they'd dropped into the bottom group of seeds altogether. Scotland didn't even draw a Pot 6 side for Euro 2012: they merely drew the weakest of the Pot 5 teams, Liechtenstein.

 

Where has this "easiest possible group" nonsense come from? Has it just been invented by folk or something?

 

You seem to exist in this autistic world where stats mean everything Shaun. Given it is highly unlikely that any team will draw the easiest seed in each pot, the draw Scotland got, Spain apart was as good as we could have hoped for.

 

5 points from 12 against two relatively mediocre teams cannot be portrayed as anything other than poor and that has ultimately cost us qualification. That said, I am happy for Levein to be given more time, but the overall assessment so far is 'must do better'.

[shaun.lawson]

Completely agree as well Shaun, I still think Scots underestimate the Czech in this group. I keep hearing people saying they are not as good as they used to be, but they are still that bit better then us. As much as international football is affected by tactics and luck, the pool of quality players is the biggest thing. Why are Spain world and European champions? Because they have some unbelievable talented players that play the same style and slot in, tonight Mata dropped out and Silva came in. Torres was on the bench while Villa played. Germany are the same, they have developed their pool so that it has created fantastic players. Bulgaria back in 1994 were some team, now they are a shadow of their former selves because they have no quality in their pool (with one or two exceptions.) Scotland has suffered since 1998 because the pool of international quality players dried up, the odd one or two (McFadden, D. Fletcher and Ferguson) came through and we struggled to come close, but not enough to qualify. Scotland under Levein searched for the next lot of quality, we had talented players in our squad already but Levein found Bardsley, Mackail-Smith, Jamie Mackie (though he has been injured but looked a great player) to the first team through searching deeper for quality Scotland players, crucially he has made the lower levels to do the same, bring these players in sooner, so in the under 21 team that played yesterday we had Liam Palmer who looked decent and Jordon Rhodes who looks a fantastic goal scorer. He also looked to promote young talents which could go far so Bannan, Hanley, Wilson, Goodwillie and Forrest. Get them in early and used to the set-up and you reap the benefits as they develop. Craig Levein has rightfully identified that the key to improving Scotland is getting the very best players as possible to play for us, it is a long term project and one which will give us the chance to push higher. With the SFA's long term strategy to get the most out of elite talent in this country it should put us in the right direction.

 

As you say team spirit is also crucial, the fact players are trying as hard as possible to come through injury to play is such an important difference. And apart from one (admittedly high profile) player no one has fallen out with him.

 

You might be interested to know that I was listening to bbc Scotland after the match and their phone in, one guy phoned up demanding Levein be sacked and replaced with Graeme Souness, Tom English tore what he called "the myth" of souness to shreds (did well at Rangers with money, has failed in every managerial post since) which is what you said earlier on in the week,

 

You're spot on about the Czechs. No great shakes - but nowhere near as bad as is being made out, beginning to head back in the right direction, and awfully, awfully good at qualifying for the European Championship. They've only been there on every single occasion since the Czech Republic was even formed: what a load of crap, eh?

 

And good to hear that about the truth about Souness finally being spoken. I always did like that Tom English fella.

[colinmaroon]

I think he will get another campaign and I'm pretty much in favour of that despite my feelings about this one. The points made about the need for continuity and also the improvement in team spirit are valid. Hopefully he will now know that he has a team that is at its best when it's making opposition teams uncomfortable in their own half.

 

I'm just gutted that it's now seven tournaments in a row. As someone who has always measured his life in World Cup-sized chunks, I'm wondering how many more I've got left.

 

 

I'm sure more than me!

 

 

Levein said after the game tonight that he thought if he had a few more games before the campaign started then perhaps things would have turned out different and, having seen the improvement, I'm prepared to give him that!

 

The problem is that in the World Cup qualifiers it's a pretty heavy group!

 

If he gets into one of the "qualifying" positions it will be a superb achievement!

[david mcgee]

Brown and Roxburgh qualified for 4 tournaments between them. I wish we were that rotten now.

Brown and Roxburgh were the decemation of Scottish football, i dont care how many tournaments they qualified for.

 

Set back this Country by decades and explains much of the problems we face now.

 

F..k the kids, bring on Matt Elliot!

[benny]

You have to put this campaign down as another failure.Manager must take the blame..Found wanting in the two games against the Czech's.Away tie the worst display ever due to his tactics and the home tie with stupid substitutions.

[shaun.lawson]

You seem to exist in this autistic world where stats mean everything Shaun. Given it is highly unlikely that any team will draw the easiest seed in each pot, the draw Scotland got, Spain apart was as good as we could have hoped for.

 

5 points from 12 against two relatively mediocre teams cannot be portrayed as anything other than poor and that has ultimately cost us qualification. That said, I am happy for Levein to be given more time, but the overall assessment so far is 'must do better'.

 

No it wasn't. And the relative pessimism on here at the time of the draw said as much too.

[jamboinglasgow]

You're spot on about the Czechs. No great shakes - but nowhere near as bad as is being made out, beginning to head back in the right direction, and awfully, awfully good at qualifying for the European Championship. They've only been there on every single occasion since the Czech Republic was even formed: what a load of crap, eh?

 

And good to hear that about the truth about Souness finally being spoken. I always did like that Tom English fella.

 

It may not be popular but I do think that quite a lot of Scottish (and English) supporters have little idea on the game in relation to overseas opposition and to a great extent the complexities of tactics (i.e. I think strikers are held as mythical beings who simply having two up front means lots of goals) but I know that may be a very unpopular view.

 

When English had finished destroying the guys idea of bringing Souness in to manage Scotland, the caller said well everyone has views and then asked the presenter what he thought on his idea in the hope that someone would agree with him