topcat Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Oh, silly me, it's to wind up the Celtic fans, just like we sing the Fields of Athenry when Rangers visit. There's a crucial difference "Feilds of Athenry" is a shit tune while "Marching through Georgia" is a good tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Proportion of people singing the original words to the song who give a flying **** about Billy Fullarton? Not high, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I am sure you are right. When I was at school a long time ago, one of the set poems for O grade was Edwin Morgan's King Billy, about Fullarton's funeral. It contains the immortal line "deplore what is to be deplored and then find out the rest". if you don't know it, it's well worth a read. Do they still use that poem in schools today? http://www.glesga.ukpals.com/profiles/billyordan4.htm Among the things that are worth "finding out" is why on earth a rump of Hearts fans want to sing a song about a 1930's Glasgow gangster. Oh, silly me, it's to wind up the Celtic fans, just like we sing the Fields of Athenry when Rangers visit. interesting choice of collective noun..a rump..of arses perhaps They sing it because they are plooky faced laddies with the brains of a rocking horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 There's a crucial difference "Feilds of Athenry" is a shit tune while "Marching through Georgia" is a good tune Depends what mood you're in or how you see yourself, Sad and Mournful or Triumphal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 BBC said they would be investigating pro IRA chanting I do know that on Monday a lengthy email went to The First Minister, Lothian Borders Police, BBC, Sky News plus a couple of newspapers detailing Sundays events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 having not read all the posts in this thread I hope I aint repeating something someone else has posted but here goes I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security (missing Rudi`s goal in the process ) and asked as to why I hadnt seen any action taken against those in the away end the majority off who were singing NOT the minority. I was told that LBP had instructed the stewards not to enter the away end but to identify the culprits and their picture would be taken and action would be taken later, this was partly due to the safety aspect in that the police felt that it would be unsafe to try and remove individuals given what went on last time they did it. I was also told there were police in amongst the away fans identifying people who were taking part in sectarian singing to be fair to the two guys I spoke to they were as frustrated as I was that nothing was seen to be being done but they did assure me and I have no reason to doubt them that action would be taken hope this is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 having not read all the posts in this thread I hope I aint repeating something someone else has posted but here goes I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security (missing Rudi`s goal in the process ) and asked as to why I hadnt seen any action taken against those in the away end the majority off who were singing NOT the minority. I was told that LBP had instructed the stewards not to enter the away end but to identify the culprits and their picture would be taken and action would be taken later, this was partly due to the safety aspect in that the police felt that it would be unsafe to try and remove individuals given what went on last time they did it. I was also told there were police in amongst the away fans identifying people who were taking part in sectarian singing to be fair to the two guys I spoke to they were as frustrated as I was that nothing was seen to be being done but they did assure me and I have no reason to doubt them that action would be taken hope this is the case This sounds about right and I hope it true. As much as we'd like to see them dragged out it makes sense that they aren't. Still didn't stop them taking a boy out our end for what I'm told was having a JW mask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickfest Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yes, something like that but as far as Scottish football goes Fenian means Celtic fan to most people. Only to idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 having not read all the posts in this thread I hope I aint repeating something someone else has posted but here goes I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security (missing Rudi`s goal in the process ) and asked as to why I hadnt seen any action taken against those in the away end the majority off who were singing NOT the minority. I was told that LBP had instructed the stewards not to enter the away end but to identify the culprits and their picture would be taken and action would be taken later, this was partly due to the safety aspect in that the police felt that it would be unsafe to try and remove individuals given what went on last time they did it. I was also told there were police in amongst the away fans identifying people who were taking part in sectarian singing to be fair to the two guys I spoke to they were as frustrated as I was that nothing was seen to be being done but they did assure me and I have no reason to doubt them that action would be taken hope this is the case Thanks for the info. I look forward to around 2,000 arrests then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickfest Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I think we forget that the majority of celtic fans are against the whole ira garbage that a large majority of their away fans sing. Problem is their club does absolutely nothing to try and stop this, they are too busy trying to prove that every non-catholic in Scotland is a bigot This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I make assumptions all the time. So do we all. Life would be boring if we didn't. 1 There's people who sing "one John Wilson" 2 There's people who sing sectarian or Rangers-minded stuff (a wide spectrum from Fenian blood to Rule Britannia) 3 (My assumption) there is an overlap between the two groups. My guess is that most people who would do 2 would also do 1, and many who would do 1 would also do 2. These are just my assumptions. Yes of course he did. OK, it's Wikipedia but Hooliganism refers to unruly, destructive, aggressive and bullying behaviour. If what he did is not "unruly" or "aggressive" I don't know what is. The name of the offence is Breach of the Peace, which covers a multitude of sins, including hooliganism. You really think that chanting "one John Wilson" is not condoning what he did? Kickback rules include: do not encourage or condone criminal activity . I'm not referring to you here, but there have been plenty of posts recently that appear to condone what John Wilson did. You said he was a "convicted football hooligan" i wasn't sure if he had any of the football hooligan laws used against him, thats why i asked. And i really think people chanting "one john wilson" was a wind up rather than condoning what the muppet did.We maybe have a differant sense of humour. I think your assumptions will be right in some cases but not most,but i feel the majority of the minority who sing the songs you refer to do so to wind up the celtic fans,hence why we dont hear them sung elswhere.Not condoning it but rather than being full on bigotted people i assume they are 90 minute bigots and need to smarten up or the club will be fined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 having not read all the posts in this thread I hope I aint repeating something someone else has posted but here goes I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security (missing Rudi`s goal in the process ) and asked as to why I hadnt seen any action taken against those in the away end the majority off who were singing NOT the minority. I was told that LBP had instructed the stewards not to enter the away end but to identify the culprits and their picture would be taken and action would be taken later, this was partly due to the safety aspect in that the police felt that it would be unsafe to try and remove individuals given what went on last time they did it. I was also told there were police in amongst the away fans identifying people who were taking part in sectarian singing to be fair to the two guys I spoke to they were as frustrated as I was that nothing was seen to be being done but they did assure me and I have no reason to doubt them that action would be taken hope this is the case Sadly this just means that mob rule has won, Like when they roll off buses, drunk, then proceed to urinate openly in public, only for Scotlands finest to do the sum total of hee-haw to them, WONDERFUL-NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 An interesting take on all of this from a member of the Catholic hierarchy in Scotland. It seems to me that listening and reading the comments that have come from him, that there no such thing as Catholic bigotry - only bigotry and sectarianism carried out by others against Catholics. He's obviously closed both his eyes and ears to much of what comes out of the mouths of Celtic supporters for years. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/273439-bishop-warning-over-problematic-new-sectarianism-laws/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Well it actually glorifies the killing of the fenian's who, as explained above, were both protestant and catholic. In this context however it probably does mean catholic. I think you'd be pushing it to say that glorifying the killing of orangeman or British politicians is a bone of contention. It should be outlawed and I'm surprised that you're defending it Definitely not defending it hence me saying "properly outlawed" just pointing out that, as it stands, there is some contention over whether or not they are consider folk songs in the eyes of the law. Until that's sorted we would be done and they won't. That's all I'm saying. You are wrong The song was originally a glasgow gang song..which doeas glorify Billy Fullerton who was a thug and a facist..bodyguard for Mosley when he visited Glasgow The fenian blood referred to was another gang called The Fenian Boys.,who used to have gang fights with The Billy Boys on Glasgow Green. Wasn't aware of that, haven't really done much research into it. Knew it was a glasgow gang, didn't know about the fenians boys. The main point was Hello, Hello is considered sectarian and no-one will make a call on whether or not the Celtic songs are pro-IRA propaganda or folk songs and until that's solved we'll get done and they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 with regards to the hello hello song was this not on a Hearts cd in the 80`s but had the lines on Saturday you`ll hear us roar/sing from Gorgie to Dalry when we go marching to Tynie or at least similar and one of the "choir" would have been a certain John Colquhoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndicalist Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 with regards to the hello hello song was this not on a Hearts cd in the 80`s but had the lines on Saturday you`ll hear us roar/sing from Gorgie to Dalry when we go marching to Tynie or at least similar and one of the "choir" would have been a certain John Colquhoun Fairly sure it was the 70's and may even have been released as part of our centenary celebrations in 1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Fairly sure it was the 70's and may even have been released as part of our centenary celebrations in 1974 It was - the "b" side of what was supposed to have been a new club song - which was pretty awful. I' ve still got the record somewhere in my loft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 you had better explain to some of the younger posters on here what a "record" is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 An interesting take on all of this from a member of the Catholic hierarchy in Scotland. It seems to me that listening and reading the comments that have come from him, that there no such thing as Catholic bigotry - only bigotry and sectarianism carried out by others against Catholics. He's obviously closed both his eyes and ears to much of what comes out of the mouths of Celtic supporters for years. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/273439-bishop-warning-over-problematic-new-sectarianism-laws/ you are correct..pressure is being put on a SCottish Governement by the Catholic church to amend the legislation,read Michael Kellys "article" in todays Scotsman. What they want for example on Sunday is that Hearts fans would be arrested ,but The Tims would be allowed to indulge in an IRA fest as it is celebrating their heritage and traditions. This is the same kind of pressure that was put on New Labour in respect of the minutes silence for the last pontiff to fall of his perch. Hopefully Salmond will prove stronger than Mcconnell. Another example ..after Sunday there were many complaints to the police about the IRA chanting,I believe NO complaints had been received about Hearts supporters ,but the statement that both sets of fans were being investigated was issued..who would insist on that ,and to appease whom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 you had better explain to some of the younger posters on here what a "record" is Ah - the things they'll never know - 78, 45 or 33. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 you are correct..pressure is being put on a SCottish Governement by the Catholic church to amend the legislation,read Michael Kellys "article" in todays Scotsman. What they want for example on Sunday is that Hearts fans would be arrested ,but The Tims would be allowed to indulge in an IRA fest as it is celebrating their heritage and traditions. This is the same kind of pressure that was put on New Labour in respect of the minutes silence for the last pontiff to fall of his perch. Hopefully Salmond will prove stronger than Mcconnell. Another example ..after Sunday there were many complaints to the police about the IRA chanting,I believe NO complaints had been received about Hearts supporters ,but the statement that both sets of fans were being investigated was issued..who would insist on that ,and to appease whom Yep had a look at the article- and yet again someone closely associated with Celtic (and the West of Scotland Catholic Church)seeking dispensation for their outrageous songs and chants. Calling the glorification of murder and terrorism heritage and tradition puts all of this into perspective really. I hope that the Scottish Government don't back down on this and alter any bill just to suit the "heritage and traditions" of morons who glory in murder and mayhem. Personally I feel that the bill will solve nothing - the attitudes of bigotry and sectarianism in Glasgow are far to ingrained in every day life in the west of Scotland for it to make any real difference. Kelly's comments just reinforce this impression with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDudley Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 having not read all the posts in this thread I hope I aint repeating something someone else has posted but here goes I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security (missing Rudi`s goal in the process ) you missed part of a crucial match to go and clipe on the other teams fans? never has a single post summed up Kickback so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 you missed part of a crucial match to go and clipe on the other teams fans? never has a single post summed up Kickback so well well firstly next time I need to go and have a p**s I`ll send a message to you to see if 1.. its okay to do so and 2.. if you can tell me if its a wrong time to go as there is about to be a goal scored and any chance of the lottery numbers whilst were here mr clairvoyant but then you knew I`d ask you that eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDudley Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 well firstly next time I need to go and have a p**s I`ll send a message to you to see if 1.. its okay to do so and 2.. if you can tell me if its a wrong time to go as there is about to be a goal scored and any chance of the lottery numbers whilst were here mr clairvoyant but then you knew I`d ask you that eh but you didn't say you went for a piss, you said "I went to speak to a couple of supervisors in security" those are 2 very different things! ...and I'd tell you the lottery numbers but I don't see any reason to half my winnings this weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 no worries just didnt think that JKB readers would be interested in my bladder believe me I`ve no issues with arseholes singing their biggoted bile after many many years hearing it from both sides its in one ear and right out the other but what I do have an issue with is FAIRNESS I witnessed a few Hearts fans being taken out and if they`ve been breaking the law then fine but I`d not seen any action at the other end and was only asking why come on let us know the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 i assume they are 90 minute bigots and need to smarten up or the club will be fined. I think they probably are - we still need to put a stop to it though. I don't want to support a team that is known for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 So the answer to a tiny percentage of our support starting and not finishing a sectarian song is to switch teams? **** me that is astounding logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 So the answer to a tiny percentage of our support starting and not finishing a sectarian song is to switch teams? **** me that is astounding logic. Probably to the team he actually supports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 AJD, It's just mental mate! . Seriously prissy stuff likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 AJD, It's just mental mate! . Seriously prissy stuff likes. From previous posts he's made on another thread his 'support' for the Hearts could be called into question. He seems to prefer to question the integrity of Hearts fans then run away when he gets answers that don't fit his agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Ah okay... What a pointless waste of life that is... If he is what you suggest then its pointless even having a go at him really, his life would have to be a complete void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Ah okay... What a pointless waste of life that is... If he is what you suggest then its pointless even having a go at him really, his life would have to be a complete void. I just hope I've not read him wrong and he is in fact a Hearts fan who feels the need to question things that most Hearts fans accept quite readily. If I have read you wrong, 4Marsbars, I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I may be wide of the mark, but was it not an Irish fighter, or catholic Warrier from Ireland meant Fenian? irish american who fought against the British in the war of independence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 No one's bottled it and I think credit should be given to the Scottish government for trying to stamp out Sectarianism in Scottish society after all racist comments are now not accepted and the same should be applied for sectarian comments. Not sure how you have come to the conclusion this proposed legislation is going to stamp out sectarianism in Scottish society. The legislation isn't aimed at Scottish society in general, it is aimed at football fans, and many that will be caught up by it aren't, never will be or never were bigots. Anyone that thinks targeting football fans will rid Scottish society of sectarianism is even more loco than Alex Salmond and his cohorts who came up with this idea. It was conceived as an attempt to score some brownie points, and is being ripped to shreds by many, even Nil by Mouth have now said to shove it. If you want to change society you have to target society as a whole, not a small part of it. Until the Scottish government turn their thinking to the whole of society nothing will change. Those who presently partake in bigotry and sectarianism don't do so for 90 minutes on a Saturday and then stop. As I've said already on this thread if the Holyrood government want to be taken seriously doing away with denominational schools is where to start, and educate the kids. However, the statement by the Roman Catholic Church today and their indication that they will have to reconsider their "support for the SNP" suggests that will never happen or the SNP support going forward will plummet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm all for faith schools if the followers of that faith pay for them. I see the Church of Scotland want their own now too. Super. Rest assured no child of mine will attend a faith school of any organised religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm all for faith schools if the followers of that faith pay for them. I see the Church of Scotland want their own now too. Super. Rest assured no child of mine will attend a faith school of any organised religion Get on your knees avoid the fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Alex Salmond, a Hearts fan, must have sat in the Tynecastle stand, maybe even stood on the terracing, and, like most of us, wished he could find the opportunity to tell the world, or even just Scotland, of the vile bigotry of the Old Firm, and how both teams used and abused it to get strong. I'm sure, as a decent person, he must have longed for the opportunity to do something about it. Now he is arguably the most powerfull man in Scotland, a man, whether they want to or not, the media must listen to and report what he says, as must the MSPs, at least within the walls of Holyrood. He has the perfect forum to have it discussed and argued, to have OF supporting MSPs try to defend their clubs positions, but instead of pointing the finger where it so clearly belongs, he tries to introduce fudged legislation that, even if it was passed, he must know will largely be ignored in Glasgow while L&B Police, rightly or wrongly, do their best to show they are enforcing the law. I wouldn't be surprised if Salmond actually wishes he could open this can of worms, but it just shows the power of Rangers and Celtic within Scotland that he seems uninclined to take this radical step. He knows the media would crucify him, and although many Old Firm fans patriotic allegiencies lie elsewhere and have never voted SNP, he knows he will lose enough votes to ensure he loses the next election. It is a sad indictment of our country that two such vile football clubs can hold such power. It is also a sad indictment of all politicians that they are never as brave in office as out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You ae correct fella, but the fact remains that he needs to keep chasing the working class catholic vote and thus entice them away from Labour and as a result he can't do anything to upset the rank & file. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 As far as I'm aware all references to the IRA are related to the original army that fought in the early 19th century and not the terrorist organisation. That's what the celtic boy at work used to tell me. Very convenient I thought. He was always saying their songs were political and NLT sectarian. Well in that case, all references to the dreaded F word could relate to this? Gander / Goose. http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=Fenian+Brotherhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I suspect it may even be a Breach Of The Peace as defined in Scotland. http://www.police-information.co.uk/legislation/legislationindexsco.html#breach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 An interesting take on all of this from a member of the Catholic hierarchy in Scotland. It seems to me that listening and reading the comments that have come from him, that there no such thing as Catholic bigotry - only bigotry and sectarianpism carried out by others against Catholics. He's obviously closed both his eyes and ears to much of what comes out of the mouths of Celtic supporters for years. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/273439-bishop-warning-over-problematic-new-sectarianism-laws/ They (the Catholic Bishopry) are against same sex marriage but are happy to cover up paedophile Priests? Not the most balanced set of opinions I've come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Mugabe Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 you missed part of a crucial match to go and clipe on the other teams fans? never has a single post summed up Kickback so well The only shocker is that it wasn't to grass up the Hearts support tbh. Each time we have this outrage about the scum in the Roseburn and each time nothing ever gets done about it. Fairly immune to it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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