The irony of "loyalty" points

[Sten Guns]

Anyone else in the same boat as me?

 

ST holder, didn't have enough LP for WHL tickets.

 

However secured them from a ST holder who did.

 

Despite going, will be getting nae LP's. They obviously will.

 

Further widening the gap, making it harder still in future.

 

[Vincent B.A]

Dry your eyes out and start going to more away games

[rossthejambo]

Anyone else in the same boat as me?

 

ST holder, didn't have enough LP for WHL tickets.

 

However secured them from a ST holder who did.

 

Despite going, will be getting nae LP's. They obviously will.

 

Further widening the gap, making it harder still in future.

 

 

Console yourself with the fact that you won't have to bother with LP's again this season.

[Homme]

Anyone else in the same boat as me?

 

ST holder, didn't have enough LP for WHL tickets.

 

However secured them from a ST holder who did.

 

Despite going, will be getting nae LP's. They obviously will.

 

Further widening the gap, making it harder still in future.

 

 

But you didn't purchase the ticket from Hearts, so therefore don't deserve any loyalty points. You didn't have enought points so shouldn't really have the ticket in the first place (in Hearts' eyes)

 

I wouldn't be expecting them if i'd been passed a ticket either.

 

Anyway loyalty points now mean feck all again if you go to a decent munber of games. I'll bet it's years before anything like this happens again.

[brux]

Dry your eyes out and start going to more away games

 

How does that show loyalty to hearts, spending money on away teams to boost their income?

 

LP's are an irony

[Sten Guns]

Console yourself with the fact that you won't have to bother with LP's again this season.

 

 

True mate.

 

And to Vincent BA, if I could go every week, I would.

 

However since climbing on the mortgage ladder 2 years ago, a ST and selecting 3 or 4 away games is all I can afford.

 

I think it's a damn good effort.

 

My point is, there will be a lot of jambos getting no LP's for this, and loads who are, but selling their tickets. Find it a little ironic and couldn't give a toss how you felt about that. My question was - is anyone in the same boat.

[redm]

Even if people are in the same boat they probably won't now care Sten. The momentary value of LPs has been and gone.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if we see a shake up of the system in months to come though.

[amadjambo]

How does that show loyalty to hearts, spending money on away teams to boost their income?

 

LP's are an irony

 

Do you really need this explained?

 

Because you are supporting the team and not sitting at home.

 

Simple really.

 

Go to all our games and you'll have no problem ever again.

[mahgrassyshoes]

Do you really need this explained?

 

Because you are supporting the team and not sitting at home.

 

Simple really.

 

Go to all our games and you'll have no problem ever again.

 

 

Not true, I've not missed any games worth loyalty points this season or the previous 2, but i only have 73. I can see there are loads of points missing from my total, but the wifie refused to help me when i called because i was too far away from the 106 total. I'm not going to bother getting it fixed as that is the last time for a long time we'll need it and I ended up getting my ticket in the end.

[redm]

Not true, I've not missed any games worth loyalty points this season or the previous 2, but i only have 73. I can see there are loads of points missing from my total, but the wifie refused to help me when i called because i was too far away from the 106 total. I'm not going to bother getting it fixed as that is the last time for a long time we'll need it and I ended up getting my ticket in the end.

 

They really refused to help you? That's terrible.

 

 

Take it you spoke to the TO and not just some Ticketmaster dafty though?

[SectionG]

What's ironic about loyalty points is I struggled to get a ticket for the home match as not got a season ticket this year due to work commitments, and was unable to get one before they were sold out on the Saturday they went on sale, once again due to work. BUT I did have enough points to get a ticket for WHL.

[Alan Johnson]

I'm a season ticket holder, have been for years but was some way off the loyalty points needed for WHL tickets. I don't go to every away game but fit a lot in, the problem is that I've paid at the gate for almost all of them over the last 3 seasons so don't get loyalty points for them. Think the club should find a way to incorporate this into the system, but not sure how it would work exactly.

 

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

[AndyWHL]

LPs allways brings up the same debates at Spurs.

Can i please ask how many times you actually needs points to get tickets for away games, I have read earlier in another thread that your average away support is 600 to 800.

Do you ever get allocated less tickets that this in the SPL?

What about cup ties? Do you get allocated less than 800?

 

At Spurs

The only time it goes to LPs is for

Arsenal Away

and away cup ties.

Chelsea Liverpool Man United all go on sale to members, but still people complain that they can not get a ticket for Real Madrid away.

Yet they dont travel to Everton Blackburn Villa and the rest.

Is this the same as not going to Dundee United St Johnstone Kilmarnock and Dunfirmline. But complaining that they can't get at ticket for WHL.

 

coys

[Francis Albert]

I am not sure we can assume they won't be used again - a quarter final cup tie at Easter Road for example would bring them into play.

 

The system certainly needs overhauled. In theory someone who doesn't buy an ST but travels to all away games (for example one of the many JKBers who have pledged for various reasons not to give another penny to the club while Vlad is there) could accumulate more loyalty points than an ST holder. To get 20 points for an ST but as many as 7 for one away or one non-ST home game seems a little skewed. And as recent experience shows the rules are either confused or not applied or both.

 

 

[mahgrassyshoes]

They really refused to help you? That's terrible.

 

 

Take it you spoke to the TO and not just some Ticketmaster dafty though?

 

 

Sorry, I made it sound worse than it was, but it was the day before they went on sale and she said they were only helping people who were close to the cut off. There were 21 points missing that I could see (2 x 7 for Zagreb and 7 for Paksi home) which would have taken me to 94 which I thought was pretty close. I had got a ticket through a supporters club at this point and was trying to get more for the club.

[Nicholas Brody]

Only 60 LP now

 

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110823/ticket-info-spurs-a_2241384_2429155

[PTBCAL]

LPs allways brings up the same debates at Spurs.

Can i please ask how many times you actually needs points to get tickets for away games, I have read earlier in another thread that your average away support is 600 to 800.

Do you ever get allocated less tickets that this in the SPL?

What about cup ties? Do you get allocated less than 800?

 

At Spurs

The only time it goes to LPs is for

Arsenal Away

and away cup ties.

Chelsea Liverpool Man United all go on sale to members, but still people complain that they can not get a ticket for Real Madrid away.

Yet they dont travel to Everton Blackburn Villa and the rest.

Is this the same as not going to Dundee United St Johnstone Kilmarnock and Dunfirmline. But complaining that they can't get at ticket for WHL.

 

coys

 

Our average away support can vary from 800 on Sunday v Killie to around 1600 last time we went to Aberdeen. We usually take around 1,000-1,200 to most away games if on a Sat and not on TV.

 

Last season we sold out our allocation away to both Celtic and Rangers (over 1,000 each game) and took 1,600 to St Mirren and Dundee Utd. Hibs obviously we sell out 3,800 but midweek games and live on TV hits the away travel hard.

 

But nowadays most away games seem to be cash only gates only so loyalty points are becoming few and far between. This season both Mwell and Killie away have been pay gates. I got loyalty points for going to both Paksi games (7 home and 7 away) and I think 2 points for Ibrox.

 

Reality is this is the only time this season where people panicked about getting a ticket - yet a fair number of fans going down to London with tickets for the Hearts end rarely attend an away game full stop.

 

However what is not indispute is the way Hearts handled the whole ticket allocation fiasco - Shambles.

[AndyWHL]

I am not sure we can assume they won't be used again - a quarter final cup tie at Easter Road for example would bring them into play.

 

The system certainly needs overhauled. In theory someone who doesn't buy an ST but travels to all away games (for example one of the many JKBers who have pledged for various reasons not to give another penny to the club while Vlad is there) could accumulate more loyalty points than an ST holder. To get 20 points for an ST but as many as 7 for one away or one non-ST home game seems a little skewed. And as recent experience shows the rules are either confused or not applied or both.

 

This is how the Spurs LP works

If you are a season ticket holder you get allocated LPs for going to away games, these range from

Arsenal Chelsea Man United Liverpool 1 point

Villa West Brom Wolves 3 points

Blackburn Wigan Sunderland 5 points

Away cup ties 1-5 points

 

Away tickets go on sale first to Season ticket holders.

I more apply that allocated it goes to LPs.

If not it goes to members.

 

Members have a seperate LPs system.

They get allocated points for home games and away games, but only get a chance at applying for away tickets when season ticket holder have had their chance.

 

It seems to work.

However we do get people season ticket holders buying tickets for non season ticket holders.

You can't stop that.

For some away games in europe (Milan Twente) we where told the Italian/Dutch police would check passports against tickets as if!

 

COYS

[PTBCAL]

This is how the Spurs LP works

If you are a season ticket holder you get allocated LPs for going to away games, these range from

Arsenal Chelsea Man United Liverpool 1 point

Villa West Brom Wolves 3 points

Blackburn Wigan Sunderland 5 points

Away cup ties 1-5 points

 

Away tickets go on sale first to Season ticket holders.

I more apply that allocated it goes to LPs.

If not it goes to members.

 

Members have a seperate LPs system.

They get allocated points for home games and away games, but only get a chance at applying for away tickets when season ticket holder have had their chance.

 

It seems to work.

However we do get people season ticket holders buying tickets for non season ticket holders.

You can't stop that.

For some away games in europe (Milan Twente) we where told the Italian/Dutch police would check passports against tickets as if!

 

COYS

 

As a result of the way Hearts dealt with the whole ticket allocation I think there will be upto 200 Hearts fans in the Spurs end when in reality they might have got tickets for the away end.

[BM1874]

the whole debate goes on about LP's

 

but Inverness away (unless its been changed in the last moments) gives no loyalty points when getting a ticket, something doesnt quite add up there does it?

[AndyWHL]

 

 

But nowadays most away games seem to be cash only gates only so loyalty points are becoming few and far between. This season both Mwell and Killie away have been pay gates. I got loyalty points for going to both Paksi games (7 home and 7 away) and I think 2 points for Ibrox.

 

This is where you system fall apart

You need to be awarded points for all away games attended.

If you do not get points when a game is pay on the day, how can the system work or be fair.

 

COYS

[Francis Albert]

This is how the Spurs LP works

If you are a season ticket holder you get allocated LPs for going to away games, these range from

Arsenal Chelsea Man United Liverpool 1 point

Villa West Brom Wolves 3 points

Blackburn Wigan Sunderland 5 points

Away cup ties 1-5 points

 

Away tickets go on sale first to Season ticket holders.

I more apply that allocated it goes to LPs.

If not it goes to members.

 

Members have a seperate LPs system.

They get allocated points for home games and away games, but only get a chance at applying for away tickets when season ticket holder have had their chance.

 

It seems to work.

However we do get people season ticket holders buying tickets for non season ticket holders.

You can't stop that.

For some away games in europe (Milan Twente) we where told the Italian/Dutch police would check passports against tickets as if!

 

COYS

 

 

Seems fair enough.

 

If you go regularly to away games but aren't an ST holder then you aren't in my book very loyal.

[Alfie Conn]

Seems fair enough.

 

If you go regularly to away games but aren't an ST holder then you aren't in my book very loyal.

 

I don't follow?

 

If you can't get an ST (45k waiting list) but nevertheless still attend away games under a membership how does that make a fan any less loyal than the ST holder?

[Francis Albert]

I don't follow?

 

If you can't get an ST (45k waiting list) but nevertheless still attend away games under a membership how does that make a fan any less loyal than the ST holder?

 

 

OK, different circumstances. There is no waiting list for Hearts STs. And the cheapest ones are pretty cheap.

[AndyWHL]

I don't follow?

 

If you can't get an ST (45k waiting list) but nevertheless still attend away games under a membership how does that make a fan any less loyal than the ST holder?

 

I don't think Hearts have a W/L for season tickets.

 

COYS

[Alfie Conn]

OK, different circumstances. There is no waiting list for Hearts STs. And the cheapest ones are pretty cheap.

 

Understood

[Alfie Conn]

I don't think Hearts have a W/L for season tickets.

 

COYS

 

 

See above

[Templeton'sUnderpants]

Dry your eyes out and start going to more away games

 

Not that simple though is it. I was at Motherwell and Killie and didn't get a single LP.

[chester copperpot]

I don't follow?

 

If you can't get an ST (45k waiting list) but nevertheless still attend away games under a membership how does that make a fan any less loyal than the ST holder?

 

I don't think he was getting at you Alfie.

 

Jeez, you're a bit touchy this morning fella, bit nervous about your meeting with the 'Fist of Gorgie' aye

[Francis Albert]

See above

 

 

But maybe worth also just making the point that being on a waiting list isn't the same thing as buying an ST. We did have reportedly a 6000 waiting list after the 2005/06 season., but very few actually bought an ST when they became available again. I don't doubt there are thousands, ten of thousands of Spurs fans who would buy an ST if they could, but I doubt there are 45,000. Especially if Spurs had a couple of poor seasons.

[AndyWHL]

But maybe worth also just making the point that being on a waiting list isn't the same thing as buying an ST. We did have reportedly a 6000 waiting list after the 2005/06 season., but very few actually bought an ST when they became available again. I don't doubt there are thousands, ten of thousands of Spurs fans who would buy an ST if they could, but I doubt there are 45,000. Especially if Spurs had a couple of poor seasons.

 

You are right each year Fans are offered tickets and not everybody takes up the offer.

One problem is the cost

You might be offed a tcket at ?600 behind the goal or ?1400 in the west stand, i suspect most people on the W/L want the cheaper tickets.

 

But the only fair wat is to allocate ticket to those who are first season ticket holders and second go to the most games.

Spurs LP system has been in operation for over 11 years ( The longest england )

It does have its faults but i think it works well.

 

COYS

[The People's Chimp]

Anyone else in the same boat as me?

 

ST holder, didn't have enough LP for WHL tickets.

 

However secured them from a ST holder who did.

 

Despite going, will be getting nae LP's. They obviously will.

 

Further widening the gap, making it harder still in future.

 

 

There is nothing ironic about loyalty points.

[Alfie Conn]

But maybe worth also just making the point that being on a waiting list isn't the same thing as buying an ST. We did have reportedly a 6000 waiting list after the 2005/06 season., but very few actually bought an ST when they became available again. I don't doubt there are thousands, ten of thousands of Spurs fans who would buy an ST if they could, but I doubt there are 45,000. Especially if Spurs had a couple of poor seasons.

 

 

Totally agree. Also agree with Andy's post.

[Alfie Conn]

I don't think he was getting at you Alfie.

 

Jeez, you're a bit touchy this morning fella, bit nervous about your meeting with the 'Fist of Gorgie' aye

 

I just midunderstood the post (not the first time & won't be the last - still getting used to your accent).

 

 

I will be paying a visit to HH around 4.45ish Thur

[chester copperpot]

I just midunderstood the post (not the first time & won't be the last - still getting used to your accent).

 

 

I will be paying a visit to HH around 4.45ish Thur

 

Excellent work sir.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Excellent work sir.

 

Will you have finished your tour of London by that time CC ???

 

There is no need to swear !

[Creepy Lurker]

Don't really think that the OP has much of a complaint, to be honest.

 

The system is flawed in that you only tend to get points for the 'glamour' games. The result is that fans who travel week in, week out but maybe have to miss one game against Hibs, Celtic or Rangers end up on less points than fans who rarely travel but always go to these big games. It's hard to see how the club could rectify that, though, and a system probably does need to be in place for the rare occasions such as Spurs away when there's this much demand.

 

Having said that, I don't think that the club handled this very well. My sister was at Paksi away and didn't get given any loyalty points for it because she couldn't prove it. Thing was, the club photographer had actually photographed her before the match and that photograph ended up in the programme. Even when she went into the ticket office and showed them that photo, along with her ticket stub, they still wouldn't add the points. Resultantly, she was below 106.

 

Also, I believe that you got 7 points for going to Paksi away. For going to the home leg, you got...7 points.

 

As others have said, though, it'll be a long time before loyalty points are ever relevant again. I can only see issues arising if we reach a cup final, and even then our allocation would be big enough to comfortably accomodate all of our season ticket holders anyway.

[chester copperpot]

Will you have finished your tour of London by that time CC ???

 

There is no need to swear !

 

I will be finished my open top bus tour by 1pm. Am going to Buckinham palace for 8, then a walk along to see the Houses of Parliament, then on to trafalgar square before jumping on the tube to Liverpool street.

 

Happy?

[Primavera]

the whole debate goes on about LP's

 

but Inverness away (unless its been changed in the last moments) gives no loyalty points when getting a ticket, something doesnt quite add up there does it?

 

I was at both Inverness away games last season and got 7 points for each.

[redm]

Don't really think that the OP has much of a complaint, to be honest.

 

The system is flawed in that you only tend to get points for the 'glamour' games. The result is that fans who travel week in, week out but maybe have to miss one game against Hibs, Celtic or Rangers end up on less points than fans who rarely travel but always go to these big games. It's hard to see how the club could rectify that, though, and a system probably does need to be in place for the rare occasions such as Spurs away when there's this much demand.

 

Having said that, I don't think that the club handled this very well. My sister was at Paksi away and didn't get given any loyalty points for it because she couldn't prove it. Thing was, the club photographer had actually photographed her before the match and that photograph ended up in the programme. Even when she went into the ticket office and showed them that photo, along with her ticket stub, they still wouldn't add the points. Resultantly, she was below 106.

 

Also, I believe that you got 7 points for going to Paksi away. For going to the home leg, you got...7 points.

 

As others have said, though, it'll be a long time before loyalty points are ever relevant again. I can only see issues arising if we reach a cup final, and even then our allocation would be big enough to comfortably accomodate all of our season ticket holders anyway.

 

And what excuse did they give her for being unable to add the points after that sort of evidence?

Honestly. Are they completely incapable in there of independent thought or applying common sense?

[Lambo85]

System is flawed.

 

Was one of the 750 fans that travelled to Killie on Sunday.

 

Was pay at the gate so got sod all loyalty points!

[AndyWHL]

System is flawed.

 

Was one of the 750 fans that travelled to Killie on Sunday.

 

Was pay at the gate so got sod all loyalty points!

 

100% right

If you have LPs you have to have a system in lace that gives points for games taht are pay on day.

 

COYS

[Lambo85]

How many Loyalty Points do you usually need to go to Easter Road?

[Erik]

Am I right in thinking that you CAN claim points for pay at the gate games? But you just have to make a fuss about doing so?

 

Personally i've never done it or tried to do so - mostly due to the fact that for 99% of the time, loyalty points count for diddly squat and I never thought i'd need them.

[Statto]

One thing I would change about the loyalty point system is assign every other club in the SPL a number of points you get, Aberdeen/Inverness 7, closer ones like Dunfermline and Hibs 1, 20 pts for ST's.

 

Even if it's pay at the gate, you go into the ticket office with your ticket stub and get your LP added. Limit it to up two weeks after the game so you don't have the situation that we have a big game and have fans bringing in 50 ticket stubs from the last 2/3 seasons.

 

 

Also, after the end of the season, I would half everybody's loyalty points. This would be better for the long term as you're not going to get fans running their points up to 5-600. Even if they started not going to games they would get priority in big games over fans that had started going regularly, which I don't think is right.

[FTH]

How many Loyalty Points do you usually need to go to Easter Road?

 

1.

 

Normally starts about 60, but has ended up at "Anyone with a purchase history" more often than not. (Maybe even every time recently, apart from the game we only go half the stand possibly)

[FTH]

One thing I would change about the loyalty point system is assign every other club in the SPL a number of points you get, Aberdeen/Inverness 7, closer ones like Dunfermline and Hibs 1, 20 pts for ST's.

 

Even if it's pay at the gate, you go into the ticket office with your ticket stub and get your LP added. Limit it to up two weeks after the game so you don't have the situation that we have a big game and have fans bringing in 50 ticket stubs from the last 2/3 seasons.

 

 

Also, after the end of the season, I would half everybody's loyalty points. This would be better for the long term as you're not going to get fans running their points up to 5-600. Even if they started not going to games they would get priority in big games over fans that had started going regularly, which I don't think is right.

 

The last 2 away games this season have been pay at the gate there were ticket stubs, or at least I didn't get one at either game. I don't see other clubs putting extra costs/hassle into their ticketing plans just to help us out, not unless we get back to 05/06 levels of interest where we can sell tickets before hand and guarantee a large support attending.

[Creepy Lurker]

And what excuse did they give her for being unable to add the points after that sort of evidence?

Honestly. Are they completely incapable in there of independent thought or applying common sense?

 

The excuse was that 'if she'd bought tickets through the club, the representative at the game would've taken her details'. Her details weren't taken and neither were those of anyone else with whom she went to the game, but the tickets were very much purchased through the club. Effectively, they're compounding their own error.

 

I do feel sorry for the ticket office staff when situations like this crop up - they've got to put up with a lot of shit for what I can't imagine are particularly great wages - but in this instance common sense could've surely been applied.

[topcat]

While just about everybody would agree with the general principle that people who go to a more games where there are enough tickets to go round should be further up the queue for tickets when there aren't

 

However turning that broad principle into a workable system is another issue.

 

Trying to sort people into a precise order of how deserving of big game tickets they are would be difficult enough even if you could capture all the information easily.

 

The hearts loyalty points system is flawed but so would any other system

 

However as a rough and ready measure it's not bad.

 

 

 

 

[Feeno]

While just about everybody would agree with the general principle that people who go to a more games where there are enough tickets to go round should be further up the queue for tickets when there aren't

 

However turning that broad principle into a workable system is another issue.

 

Trying to sort people into a precise order of how deserving of big game tickets they are would be difficult enough even if you could capture all the information easily.

 

The hearts loyalty points system is flawed but so would any other system

 

However as a rough and ready measure it's not bad.

 

 

 

 

 

When I worked there they used to have an excellent, thorough system in place, basically the big fellie Neil knew who had been to games and who hadnt and would sort the applications out accordingly without prejiduced and based soley on how many games they had attended. thats was 2001 I dont think he works there anymore. **** computers.