FORTHCLYDE Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Two men from Cheshire have been jailed for four years each for using Facebook to incite disorder during riots in England last week. Jordan Blackshaw, 21, of Vale Road, Marston and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Richmond Avenue, Warrington, were jailed at Chester Crown Court. The Recorder of Chester, Judge Elgan Edwards praised the swift actions of Cheshire Police. He said he hoped the sentences would act as a deterrent to others. Both men pleaded guilty under sections 44 and 46 of the Serious Crime Act to intentionally encouraging another to assist the commission of an indictable offence. The Crown Prosecution Service said Blackshaw had created a Facebook event called "Smash d[o]wn in Northwich Town", intended for the receipt of the "Mob Hill Massive Northwich Lootin'". The page went on to specify a meeting time and place of 9 August, between 13:00 and 16:00 BST, "behind maccies" - thought to be the McDonald's restaurant in Northwich town centre. 'Serious disorder' Blackshaw also added the first comment on his page, writing: "We'll need to get this kickin off all over." Police were alerted to Sutcliffe-Keenan's page when members of the public raised concerns on 9 August. The page invited people to "riot" on 10 August between 19:00 BST and 22:00 BST. Martin McRobb, from the Merseyside and Cheshire Crown Prosecution Service, said: "They both used Facebook to organise and orchestrate serious disorder at a time when such incidents were taking place in other parts of the country. "Both defendants, in Northwich and Warrington respectively, sought to gain widespread support in order to replicate similar criminality." 'Abused technology' He added: "While the judge heard the two defendants were previously of good character, they admitted committing very serious offences that carry a maximum sentence of 10 years." Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Police, Phil Thompson, said: "From the offset Cheshire Constabulary adopted a robust policing approach using the information coming into the organisation to move quickly and effectively against any person whose behaviour was likely to encourage criminality. "Officers took swift action against those people who have been using Facebook and other social media sites to incite disorder. "The sentences passed down today recognise how technology can be abused to incite criminal activity and sends a strong message to potential troublemakers about the extent to which ordinary people value safety and order in their lives and their communities. "Anyone who seeks to undermine that will face the full force of the law." Sure to be discussed over the next few days you've only got a 7% chance of going to jail for raping someone what's more serious? It also seems that politicians are interfering with the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14551582 Sure to be discussed over the next few days you've only got a 7% chance of going to jail for raping someone what's more serious? It also seems that politicians are interfering with the courts. If they get four years for that then Guildford should get life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Ridiculous sentencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 That's ******* outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 That is a total disgrace; it's clear that there is political involvement and influence on the courts, but that is really worrying. Some of the sentencing in England is a joke; a guy was jailed for ten weeks for swearing at Police last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Throw away the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoussetsShorts Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Finally the justice system works!! That will teach them a lesson. Good on the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Finally the justice system works!! That will teach them a lesson. Good on the judge. Really? Two guys with no previous convictions post something stupid on Facebook and will now be in jail for four years?! Surely a warning would have been perfectly fair in this instance, reeks of a political conviction and one that could set a very dangerous precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If they get four years for that then Guildford should get life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjl Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Really? Two guys with no previous convictions post something stupid on Facebook and will now be in jail for four years?! Surely a warning would have been perfectly fair in this instance, reeks of a political conviction and one that could set a very dangerous precedent. It is political sentencing. People were scared by the rioting and the government want to make them feel better. It's as simple as that. Pandering to the knee jerk reaction as opposed to dealing with the real issues. Only a complete idiot would see it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilandy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Really? Two guys with no previous convictions post something stupid on Facebook and will now be in jail for four years?! Surely a warning would have been perfectly fair in this instance, reeks of a political conviction and one that could set a very dangerous precedent. Indeed it was stupid to post it but they were still posting messages to encourage people to take part in rioting/vandalism/theft and what have you. And with most of the sentences that have been given to folk involved in the riots, this is maybe a bit harsh, but seems similar to the heavier than normal sentences we've seen in the last few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Political prisoners. So, purely hypothetically, if I type the words "let's start a riot at half time on Thursday", I could go to prison for four years! Utterly ridiculous, we are heading towards totalitarianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 A lot of populist retribution being dished out by the courts it would seem. We'll likely see the re-introduction of the stocks by the end of this parliament. You expect it from the tories but what are the lib dems up to...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Archaic sentencing with the government at the back of it. No wonder we have riots if this is an example of the justice and oppression thats afoot. Punish them...yes of course. Publicise the punishment as a deterrent....again Yes of course. Jail them ?....debatable, although the short sharp shock might have sent a good message. Jail them for 4 years ? Absolutely ridiculous and completely out of sync with the offence committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Lighter Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Todays Keiser Report discusses the riots and the sentencing.Always worth watching. Todays guest is Prof William Black,who convicted over 1,000 bankers in the savings and loans crisis of the '80's and 90's. Utterly draconian sentencing.Our politicians are in the pockets of the real looters,the banking elite. Fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Archaic sentencing with the government at the back of it. No wonder we have riots if this is an example of the justice and oppression thats afoot. Punish them...yes of course. Publicise the punishment as a deterrent....again Yes of course. Jail them ?....debatable, although the short sharp shock might have sent a good message. Jail them for 4 years ? Absolutely ridiculous and completely out of sync with the offence committed. Spot on OAG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 A lot of populist retribution being dished out by the courts it would seem. We'll likely see the re-introduction of the stocks by the end of this parliament. You expect it from the tories but what are the lib dems up to...? Getting ready to supply the rotten fruit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If they get four years for that then Guildford should get life. Don't free the Guildford one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoussetsShorts Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 i think they deserve it. thought they were smart. now who's laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Muller Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They won't be in jail after 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I would expect them to appeal the sentence and possibly be bailed until the appeal court consider, where I would hope common sense would prevail and a short custodial or a suspended sentence would be imposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I want to see the the courts turn their attention to the Hearts FB page next and come down hard on all the seethe jockeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 i think they deserve it. thought they were smart. now who's laughing. Anyone who thinks that any justice system should be based on retribution and making examples of people clearly has no appreciation of how any proper legal system should work. The English system is embarrassing itself by behaving in such a pathetic, short-term way. It goes alongside the Tory's ridiculous policy of evicting people from their homes and declaring 'War' on gangs. It seems to be typically Tory short termism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They plead guilty to and were convicted of a crime that carries a sentence of up to 10 years and received a sentence of less than half of that. Not exactly excessive in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They plead guilty to and were convicted of a crime that carries a sentence of up to 10 years and received a sentence of less than half of that. Not exactly excessive in my book. Talking shite on Facebook can get you a 10 year stretch? *deletes account hurriedly* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Four years!! Are they wanting more riots to start up....this time they might even have a purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 One can only ponder the sort of sentence this judge would have given Craig Thomson for his use of Facebook. Then again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It is political sentencing. People were scared by the rioting and the government want to make them feel better. It's as simple as that. Pandering to the knee jerk reaction as opposed to dealing with the real issues. Only a complete idiot would see it any other way. People will feel better for the time being. While they feel better, their attention will be diverted from the appeal against this sentence and the likely fact that these two will barely spend a week cooped up. So, purely hypothetically, if I type the words "let's start a riot at half time on Thursday", I could go to prison for four years! Utterly ridiculous, we are heading towards totalitarianism. Just be careful not to write anything about "sending them home in coffins" - 10 years in chokey guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Sure to be discussed over the next few days you've only got a 7% chance of going to jail for raping someone what's more serious? Where has this stat come from? Only 7% of people convicted for rape get a custodial sentence? That can't be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Where has this stat come from? Only 7% of people convicted for rape get a custodial sentence? That can't be right. I'm only on my phone just now so I can't hunt for a link, and I'm not sure of the 7% figure....but I remember reading an article a month or 2 ago in the metro I think it was, about how low the conviction rate for rape was, purely because of 'lack of evidence'. I remember the figure being something under 25%, but I couldn't say specifically so it could well have been 7% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Two men from Cheshire have been jailed for four years each for using Facebook to incite disorder during riots in England last week. Jordan Blackshaw, 21, of Vale Road, Marston and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Richmond Avenue, Warrington, were jailed at Chester Crown Court. The Recorder of Chester, Judge Elgan Edwards praised the swift actions of Cheshire Police. He said he hoped the sentences would act as a deterrent to others. Both men pleaded guilty under sections 44 and 46 of the Serious Crime Act to intentionally encouraging another to assist the commission of an indictable offence. The Crown Prosecution Service said Blackshaw had created a Facebook event called "Smash d[o]wn in Northwich Town", intended for the receipt of the "Mob Hill Massive Northwich Lootin'". The page went on to specify a meeting time and place of 9 August, between 13:00 and 16:00 BST, "behind maccies" - thought to be the McDonald's restaurant in Northwich town centre. 'Serious disorder' Blackshaw also added the first comment on his page, writing: "We'll need to get this kickin off all over." Police were alerted to Sutcliffe-Keenan's page when members of the public raised concerns on 9 August. The page invited people to "riot" on 10 August between 19:00 BST and 22:00 BST. Martin McRobb, from the Merseyside and Cheshire Crown Prosecution Service, said: "They both used Facebook to organise and orchestrate serious disorder at a time when such incidents were taking place in other parts of the country. "Both defendants, in Northwich and Warrington respectively, sought to gain widespread support in order to replicate similar criminality." 'Abused technology' He added: "While the judge heard the two defendants were previously of good character, they admitted committing very serious offences that carry a maximum sentence of 10 years." Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Police, Phil Thompson, said: "From the offset Cheshire Constabulary adopted a robust policing approach using the information coming into the organisation to move quickly and effectively against any person whose behaviour was likely to encourage criminality. "Officers took swift action against those people who have been using Facebook and other social media sites to incite disorder. "The sentences passed down today recognise how technology can be abused to incite criminal activity and sends a strong message to potential troublemakers about the extent to which ordinary people value safety and order in their lives and their communities. "Anyone who seeks to undermine that will face the full force of the law." Sure to be discussed over the next few days you've only got a 7% chance of going to jail for raping someone what's more serious? It also seems that politicians are interfering with the courts. 93% of rapists don't get a custodial sentence? What a load of rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Don't do the crime if you can't take the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm only on my phone just now so I can't hunt for a link, and I'm not sure of the 7% figure....but I remember reading an article a month or 2 ago in the metro I think it was, about how low the conviction rate for rape was, purely because of 'lack of evidence'. I remember the figure being something under 25%, but I couldn't say specifically so it could well have been 7% Out of those allegations that are taken to trial, the conviction rate is considerably higher. The Crown Office will not prosecute where this is a lack of evidence, or the evidence does not stack up. These are misleading figures being banded about. He said: "They say 'there's a 97-3 chance nothing's going to happen, I'm not going to get justice here', and that's nonsense, absolute nonsense."Of the cases we choose to prosecute - and we choose on the basis of the rules of evidence and the rules of procedure - of those cases, we will get more than half of them to court and convictions in court in those cases. "So is that a satisfactory statistic? I don't know. "A prosecutor's job is not to get convictions at any cost or to get convictions at a certain rate." http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-14298717 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORTHCLYDE Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Where has this stat come from? Only 7% of people convicted for rape get a custodial sentence? That can't be right. BBC NEWS 27 JULY 2011 The head of Europe's first specialist unit investigating serious sex crimes has said politicians must be cautious in considering changes to the way rape cases are handled in Scotland. Derek Ogg QC, 56, has stepped down as senior prosecutor in Scotland's National Sex Crimes Unit. Ministers are looking at ways of making it easier to secure rape convictions. Scotland has been criticised for having one of Europe's lowest conviction rates - around 3%. The Crown Office has disputed the figures which it said were based on the number of rape allegations which resulted in a conviction, and included cases where there was insufficient evidence to take to court or where a suspect could not be identified or traced. In 2008-09 it said 32% of charges reported to the procurator fiscal and subsequently indicted resulted in a conviction. But Mr Ogg, who was appointed to lead the Sex Crimes Unit in 2009 said these figures were "unfair and unjust" and deterred people from coming forward if they have been assaulted I was wrong the figure is worse it's 3% in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORTHCLYDE Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 93% of rapists don't get a custodial sentence? What a load of rubbish. Get your facts right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I have. It's ludicrous to say that only 7% of rapists go to jail which is what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I have. It's ludicrous to say that only 7% of rapists go to jail which is what you said. Err, 7% of Rape cases result in conviction. That means that 93% of people accused of rape aren't convicted, which seems a tad unrealistic. In Scotland, it's the need for corroboration of evidence which is the problem when it comes to rape cases. Mind you, until a few years ago in Scotland, a man could have sex with his wife without her consent and it wouldn't be rape. We're a little behind the times in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 People will feel better for the time being. While they feel better, their attention will be diverted from the appeal against this sentence and the likely fact that these two will barely spend a week cooped up. I don't feel better at all. Without being overly dramatic I am quite worried that the judicial system thinks that four years in prison is a fitting sentence for internet nonsense. When the judiciary is used by politicians for their own ends, in this case to make them look good, we are in danger of losing accountability and autonomy. It's only a short step from this kind of interference (albeit perhaps complicit) to removing people who speak out against you. On the other note; I think the rape statistics are that the conviction rate is low, maybe only 7% of reported rapes end in conviction. There's a long way between a crime being committed and someone sitting in a jail cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 4 years is nothing short of scandalous IMO. They're being made an example of, quite rightly in that respect, but the sentence doesn't need to be as excessive as that to make a point. I missed the riots due to being on holiday but from what I've seen and heard since, everything that's getting handed out is OTT. Punishment is fair enough of course, I've nothing against any of these people feeling the force of the law and justice system but the sentences getting dished out left right and centre are just stupid and politically motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 This just gets more ridiculous. http://www.channel4.com/news/riot-sentences-criticised-as-out-of-proportion Neither of the riots the men attempted to organise actually happening. Blackshaw set up a Facebook event encouraging people to "Smash Down Northwich Town", while Sutcliffe-Keenan, of Warrington, created the page "Let's Have a Riot in Latchford". But no-one apart from the police turned up at the pre-arranged meeting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Err, 7% of Rape cases result in conviction. That means that 93% of people accused of rape aren't convicted, which seems a tad unrealistic. In Scotland, it's the need for corroboration of evidence which is the problem when it comes to rape cases. Mind you, until a few years ago in Scotland, a man could have sex with his wife without her consent and it wouldn't be rape. We're a little behind the times in that regard. Yes but a conviction rate is completely different. Unless the poster was saying that 93% of these people who have accusations brought against them and no proceedings are taken or they are found not guilty by a jury are rapists. Which it pretty much sounds like from the phrase "you only have a 7% chance of going to jail for raping someone". Not that the conviction rate of rape in Scotland is really relevant to the severity of sentence recieved in England for a an offence which they pled guilty to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 If they were serious and genuinely trying to incite a riot then I guess they were asking for it. The fact that riots didn't take place is neither here nor there. If they were just messing about then four years is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Excellent! 2 less scum bags on our streets. Use the little pieces of dog shit as an example. We will not tolerate Anarchy and gratuitous violence and theft in our society. I appreciate there are worse crimes and they get less sentencing but these guys wanted to be the ringleaders. They thought they were big and clever. You ask the people who have to pay the ? of a billion pounds back if this is unfair. You ask the loved ones of the victims of those who died if this is unfair You ask them who lost their lives work and livelihoods if this is unfair. Good people of Britain 1 scum of Britain 0 Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Were there not a couple of FB pages doing the rounds last week from people trying to organise riots in Edinburgh and Glasgow? They looked like piss-takes to me rather than anything serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 If they were serious and genuinely trying to incite a riot then I guess they were asking for it. The fact that riots didn't take place is neither here nor there. If they were just messing about then four years is laughable. I think the riots didn't happen cos the sites were quickly closed down by the cops so nobody saw them. 4 years seems long though - There must be an element of deterrent in prison sentencing but 4 years seems long, although the families of those who lost their lives (5 in total so far) may not agree. It will be reduced on appeal then once the sentence is amended they will only serve about half of that. They will be out by Halloween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-flogging-is-too-good-for-them-2338607.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Err, 7% of Rape cases result in conviction. That means that 93% of people accused of rape aren't convicted, which seems a tad unrealistic. In Scotland, it's the need for corroboration of evidence which is the problem when it comes to rape cases. Mind you, until a few years ago in Scotland, a man could have sex with his wife without her consent and it wouldn't be rape. We're a little behind the times in that regard. Cooroboration remains an important legal safeguard. Corroboration can come in different forms. Are you suggesting we do away with it in all rape cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So if I was to say "let's go kick Theresa May in her arid, dusty *****" I'm looking at four years in prison? Bit of a right-wingers' wet dream this, tough on crime and all that bollocks. It's shown we've got a fair amount of fascists in our country, one hint of unrest and any semblance of reason is jettison in favour of armed riot police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So if I was to say "let's go kick Theresa May in her arid, dusty *****" I'm looking at four years in prison? Bit of a right-wingers' wet dream this, tough on crime and all that bollocks. It's shown we've got a fair amount of fascists in our country, one hint of unrest and any semblance of reason is jettison in favour of armed riot police. You are trivializing this BIG TIME TW ? it wasn?t a harmless facebook page ? they knew what they were doing. You only have to look at them to tell that they are scum. I could not care if they die tomorrow. I only care about the decent people of Britain. Nothing ?fascist? about this. We are not lining up Jews and gassing them, we are wanting tough sentencing for criminals and justice for victims. I know there is never any justice in left wing politics as people rarely get what they deserve in life but the politics I believe in means bad things should happen to bad people and good things should happen to good people. This is a lefties wet dream in my opinion, **** the system, down with government and profit ? let?s take what we can for free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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