SPL Attendences

[2NaFish]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14467953.stm

 

"Rangers reported a ?4.2m gain, while Celtic posted the SPL's biggest losses. Scottish Premier League clubs face going bust if the fans continue to stay away, according to a top football finance analyst.

 

Attendance figures show that almost 600,000 fans have stopped attending SPL games in the past five years."

 

Can anyone give me a rough idea of how much of this 600,000 is made up by OF fans? I'd imagine, and this is horribly rough, that over five years celtic's attendences have dropped by 5,000 on average. If that's the case that makes (5,000*19games*5years) a smidgen under 1/2million.

 

Thats fag packet maths though, anyone got any idea that actually knows what they're on about?

[Chad Sexington]

Football is far too dear in this country for the rubbish that is served up.

 

Completely empty stands are a common site at most games.

 

A drastic overhaul in pricing strategy is needed.

 

Surely it would be better for clubs like Killie and Well to charge a fiver and fill up their ground than to play to 3/4 empty stadiums every week?

[givememychoice]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14467953.stm

 

"Rangers reported a ?4.2m gain, while Celtic posted the SPL's biggest losses. Scottish Premier League clubs face going bust if the fans continue to stay away, according to a top football finance analyst.

 

Attendance figures show that almost 600,000 fans have stopped attending SPL games in the past five years."

 

Can anyone give me a rough idea of how much of this 600,000 is made up by OF fans? I'd imagine, and this is horribly rough, that over five years celtic's attendences have dropped by 5,000 on average. If that's the case that makes (5,000*19games*5years) a smidgen under 1/2million.

 

Thats fag packet maths though, anyone got any idea that actually knows what they're on about?

 

I did the figures a while back, its been quite a drastic reduction for both the OF and non OF teams...and the malaise is over a 10 year period.

[I.T.K]

I think since the first banking crash a lot of people have stopped traveling, and you have a lot less people travelling over for Ireland (north/south) for the old firm games etc.

 

Going to games is expensive these days, I just paid ?57 for me the Misses to see the Aberdeen game.

 

I think I would be better off giving her ?30 to go up town for a couple hours.

[Cut The Crap]

Football is far too dear in this country for the rubbish that is served up.

 

Completely empty stands are a common site at most games.

 

A drastic overhaul in pricing strategy is needed.

 

Surely it would be better for clubs like Killie and Well to charge a fiver and fill up their ground than to play to 3/4 empty stadiums every week?

 

Didn't john Boyle try that about ten years ago?

 

They ended up in administration.

[mutley]

Yip. You should have sent her up town with her 30 quid and went to the game with your mates

[MaroonTorres]

"Each club gets around ?1m a year from the broadcasting deal, therefore the majority of the income for Scottish clubs is actually coming from fans coming through the turnstyles,"

 

Taken from the attached article.

 

If this is the case, then why did Dunfermline's season opener against St. Mirren get moved to a Monday night?! For TV. I know we need the broadcasting money, but if it means that games now get moved to fit around the televised EPL & Championship matches then no wonder we're are driving the fans away.

 

Last weekend, Saturday 3PM. Two games played in our top flight, mainly due to friendlies and Sunday games but still no excuse. I know the price isn't helping the situation, but it used to be that a Saturday was football day. This needs to change. IMO.

[heartsfc_fan]

I'm sure we're one of the few (if only team) who's home attendances haven't dropped much over the last 2 or 3 years

[Chad Sexington]

Didn't john Boyle try that about ten years ago?

 

They ended up in administration.

 

Aye, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the sole reason they went into it though.

 

There would have been a number of factors.

 

Bottom line is, it's far too expensive to watch football in this country. Particularly when you consider the sub standard product you pay for.

 

Clubs need to wise up and start slashing prices,imo.

 

I'm sure most Bundesliga clubs sell tickets for about a tenner for parts of their grounds and they have fantastic attendances.

[Victorian]

neil doncaster doesn't seem to be worried. he dismissed this report as being negative and the arguments being made as "too simple". it's all about the recession innit.

 

yeah thanks nero.

 

i don't suppose we'll ever get anyone of any clout to examine whether falling attendances could conceivably have anything to do with the fact that our entire game is centred around, run for the benefit of, and run by the old firm. too much to ask that anyone might ponder whether or not people are turning their backs on attending matches because they are sick and tired of the peripheral shite that the old firm bring along with them.

 

not long now until the game dies altogether.

[KillieMitch]

Football is far too dear in this country for the rubbish that is served up.

 

Completely empty stands are a common site at most games.

 

A drastic overhaul in pricing strategy is needed.

 

Surely it would be better for clubs like Killie and Well to charge a fiver and fill up their ground than to play to 3/4 empty stadiums every week?

 

Motherwell are a good team to bring up in fact - did you hear their chairman on sportsound a few days ago? Their season ticket sales went up 10% last year and another 10% this year. There were a load of initiatives that other clubs could follow - i.e. free season tickets under a certain age. She also said that reducing ticket prices, as they have tried there, didn't have a huge impact and that getting young fans into the stadium was key. However, Motherwell have been pretty successful of the past few seasons so I always wonder if everything just comes back to having a decent team on the pitch.

[hmfc1440]

"It is hitting supporters in the pocket but our clubs are responding to that with competitive pricing packages.

 

Sober up! Doncaster always was and always will be a complete ass. This is the same guy who tried to push

through a 10-team league with 90% of fans opposed when the article indicates most club income comes

from fans through the gate and told us "we've done our homework". Get him out fast!

[JamboAl]

There are many reasons for this situation.

Firstly the OF is too dominant and everyone panders to them including the SFA, the media, refs and Uncle Tom Cobley and all so demeaning the status of other clubs.

The cost to take your kids has escalated out of proportion. If I were the father of say 2 young boys (as once was the case) I probably wouldn't be able to afford the 3 STs so it would cost me ?35-?40 to get in and if any of the little treasures wanted something to eat you could add at least another tenner.

There is too much football on TV especially now with pirate channels. If HMFC were playing St Mirren at the same time Arsenal were playing Man U on the box do I make the journey ti Tynie (possibly in the rain/snow) or do I nip down to the club for a couple of hours. It's a hard decision.

The economic climate for the last couple of years and the uncertainty of the future will also play a part. We already see pubs/clubs closing because it's cheaper to get booze from the supermarket.

I could add more.

[kingantti1874]

football is a product, and the spl product is a poor poor produce.... not only is the quality sensationally bad - every season you know how it is going to end... if it was a movie itd be like a shite remake that you were forced to watch year in year out...

 

yet doncaster and the sfa do all they can to protect the dupololy

 

a lot of fans get abuse on here for not turning up every week, there are various levels of fans, and various levels of commitment - it harder and harder to shell out good money to watch utter shite, i watch these plums and think - christ your not that much better than i was....

 

scottih football is on its knees, make no bones about it.

[TheBigO]

Some good points already on this thread, which I'll now try to ruin no doubt.

 

The Imp: You're totally right, but I think the worry is that teams slash prices and the numbers don't come. The thinking is that those who come to football are those who come. A tenner less won't cram people into Rugby Park, so fleecing the loyal ones is the way to go. Not saying I agree and I'd suggest thorough market research is needed either by the SPL or individual clubs.

 

heartsfc_fan: I'm pretty sure our attendances peaked in 05/06 but then since the following season we've risen year by year. Definitely the only team to do so.

 

Jimpanzee: Of course the monotony of OF dominace is killing our game. Noone worthwhile will ever say or do anything about it though. Look at Stephen Thompson at United. Good chairman, outspoken about what is wrong and seems pretty proactive. But he couldn't get voted on to the SFA board - Lawell of Celtic got on no probs even after all their vile bullshit last season. In a massive way, we need VR to follow through and scare them shitless. With success could come clout.

 

Mitch: That sounds interesting - got a link or seen it in print at all?

 

Just so you know, I'm considering calling everyone by girls names today. That won't be annoying.

[TheBigO]

"It is hitting supporters in the pocket but our clubs are responding to that with competitive pricing packages.

 

Sober up! Doncaster always was and always will be a complete ass. This is the same guy who tried to push

through a 10-team league with 90% of fans opposed when the article indicates most club income comes

from fans through the gate and told us "we've done our homework". Get him out fast!

 

It's a shame. I really did like the cut of his job when he arrived. He was from outwith Scotland so wasn't tainted by OF bias/fear. He seemed to have done pretty good work in the Football League down south and I'm pretty sure Lawson (where is he?) said he was pretty liked at Norwich (though don't quote me).

 

He just seems to have bought in to the whole OF bandwagon though. He allowed them to steamroller the whole process on reconstruction and that was his downfall. He now just seems to talk constant bullshit.

[Chad Sexington]

I think the points made about the institutional pandering to the OF having a big effect on attendances is very valid.

 

Clubs out-with the OF are routinely patronised and demeaned. All this "Best of the rest" shite is a fairly recent phenomenon.

 

Unfortunately, we appear to have a governing body and a media who want this to be the stutus quo.

 

No wonder the game is dying on it's arse. It's probably just as boring for the OF fans as it is for the rest of us.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Hearts Average Attendances

 

01/02- 12,080

02/03- 12,058

03/04- 11,947

04/05- 12,272

05/06- 16,767

06/07- 16,937

07/08- 14,253

08/09- 14,398

09/10- 14,484

10/11- 14,185

11/12(1game)- 13,821

 

So we've increased on 10 years ago, and decreased slightly on 5. We've been regularly clearing 14,000 for 6 seasons.

[Victorian]

Some good points already on this thread, which I'll now try to ruin no doubt.

 

The Imp: You're totally right, but I think the worry is that teams slash prices and the numbers don't come. The thinking is that those who come to football are those who come. A tenner less won't cram people into Rugby Park, so fleecing the loyal ones is the way to go. Not saying I agree and I'd suggest thorough market research is needed either by the SPL or individual clubs.

 

heartsfc_fan: I'm pretty sure our attendances peaked in 05/06 but then since the following season we've risen year by year. Definitely the only team to do so.

 

Jimpanzee: Of course the monotony of OF dominace is killing our game. Noone worthwhile will ever say or do anything about it though. Look at Stephen Thompson at United. Good chairman, outspoken about what is wrong and seems pretty proactive. But he couldn't get voted on to the SFA board - Lawell of Celtic got on no probs even after all their vile bullshit last season. In a massive way, we need VR to follow through and scare them shitless. With success could come clout.

 

Mitch: That sounds interesting - got a link or seen it in print at all?

 

Just so you know, I'm considering calling everyone by girls names today. That won't be annoying.

 

i think a distinction should be clearly drawn between old firm dominance and unfair old firm dominance.

 

i have no problem whatsoever with the old firm being dominant on the field of play, as long as everything is fair and above board. something approaching a level playing field. nobody should complain about them being the dominant clubs because they are the biggest and best resourced clubs. it's only natural.

 

the unfair dominance is the way the game is run for their benefit, and to the detriment of everyone else. i believe it's this underlying policy that drives people away. the berserk situation of the majority of the television revenue being given to the top two in the league. on the face of it, it's something open to all clubs to compete for... but in practice it's a virtually unachievable target and remains the sole preserve of the old firm... thus widening the gap year on year. stunting any possible hope that other clubs can begin to shin up the greasy pole.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Anyone else remember when Rangers only used to pull in crowds of around 20k? And Celtic pulled in crowds of round about the same amount? (sometimes less)

 

Some people doing these stats have short memories and see a drop in Old Firm figures as a drop in Scottish football figures, but then we should come to expect this as everything is geared for them anyway, but if Old Firm fans didn't have a big club to support with almost guaranteed success because they can afford to pay the bigger bucks, and had to suffer watching the same shite that Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen fans had to watch for the last 10 years, then their crowds would be a lot smaller, they're nothing but glory hunting bassas!

[givememychoice]

Since the inception of the SPL,

OF attendances are down 12%

Since it became a 12 team league, non OF Attendaces are down 16%.

 

Since the inception of the SPL, Hearts have had only a 0.33% dip in attendance.

Hibs (from season 99/2000) have also had less than a 1% dip. The worrying ones are killie (42%), motherwell (38%) and St Johnstone (45%), but also Aberdeen are down 28% and dundee united are down 20%.

 

in the past 17 years, there has only been one occasion where the top non OF team has finished with 15 points of the title winner. (us in 97-98)

[Gregory House M.D.]

Some good points already on this thread, which I'll now try to ruin no doubt.

 

The Imp: You're totally right, but I think the worry is that teams slash prices and the numbers don't come. The thinking is that those who come to football are those who come. A tenner less won't cram people into Rugby Park, so fleecing the loyal ones is the way to go. Not saying I agree and I'd suggest thorough market research is needed either by the SPL or individual clubs.

 

heartsfc_fan: I'm pretty sure our attendances peaked in 05/06 but then since the following season we've risen year by year. Definitely the only team to do so.

 

Jimpanzee: Of course the monotony of OF dominace is killing our game. Noone worthwhile will ever say or do anything about it though. Look at Stephen Thompson at United. Good chairman, outspoken about what is wrong and seems pretty proactive. But he couldn't get voted on to the SFA board - Lawell of Celtic got on no probs even after all their vile bullshit last season. In a massive way, we need VR to follow through and scare them shitless. With success could come clout.

 

Mitch: That sounds interesting - got a link or seen it in print at all?

 

Just so you know, I'm considering calling everyone by girls names today. That won't be annoying.

 

Peaked in 06/07

[givememychoice]

i think a distinction should be clearly drawn between old firm dominance and unfair old firm dominance.

 

i have no problem whatsoever with the old firm being dominant on the field of play, as long as everything is fair and above board. something approaching a level playing field. nobody should complain about them being the dominant clubs because they are the biggest and best resourced clubs. it's only natural.

 

the unfair dominance is the way the game is run for their benefit, and to the detriment of everyone else. i believe it's this underlying policy that drives people away. the berserk situation of the majority of the television revenue being given to the top two in the league. on the face of it, it's something open to all clubs to compete for... but in practice it's a virtually unachievable target and remains the sole preserve of the old firm... thus widening the gap year on year. stunting any possible hope that other clubs can begin to shin up the greasy pole.

 

But what is worse is that the TV revenue they get from the SPL is a tiny amount of their revenue. Its much more about stopping others having it.

[TheBigO]

i think a distinction should be clearly drawn between old firm dominance and unfair old firm dominance.

 

i have no problem whatsoever with the old firm being dominant on the field of play, as long as everything is fair and above board. something approaching a level playing field. nobody should complain about them being the dominant clubs because they are the biggest and best resourced clubs. it's only natural.

 

the unfair dominance is the way the game is run for their benefit, and to the detriment of everyone else. i believe it's this underlying policy that drives people away. the berserk situation of the majority of the television revenue being given to the top two in the league. on the face of it, it's something open to all clubs to compete for... but in practice it's a virtually unachievable target and remains the sole preserve of the old firm... thus widening the gap year on year. stunting any possible hope that other clubs can begin to shin up the greasy pole.

 

100% this, Fiona.

 

The prize money thing is a joke. I think Hearts wanted it more like in the EPL where the prize money is dished out in equal increments for each league placing (think there's about ?0.5M difference as you go down 1st:10m; 2nd:9.5m; 3rd:9m).

 

Funnily, assuming we're hitting our natural spot of 3rd, this would actual very slightly reduce our prize money. Hearts and you have to say VR - he gets credited for the negative stuff so only fair he does with the positive - actually seem to tale to the table things to progress Scottish football rather than ourselves. I'd say only Dundee United also outwardly do this.

 

The 11-1 voting system was totally designed to give the OF veto rights on anything which could harm them. For example, a couple of years ago it was suggested that the compensation for signing youth players from other teams be redesigned. The OF were able to veto it. I think in the end it may have passed, with only Celtic against it, my memory doesn't serve, but the point is it was something good for Scottish football and the OF were able to stand against it together.

[I.T.K]

Going to get shot down but I think the game needs more 'shazam' ala firework Phil.

[Victorian]

But what is worse is that the TV revenue they get from the SPL is a tiny amount of their revenue. Its much more about stopping others having it.

 

exactly the point. an artificial stunting of competition. the powers that be could claim that it's money open for anyone to 'win' by finishing in the top 2... but in practice it's highly unlikely. the old firm have always claimed it's fair because it reflects their status as 'the main attraction' for the broadcasters... failing to recognise that they kinda need the other teams to provide opposition in their matches.

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

the main problem with scottish football is that there is only competition between two clubs.

 

the league is not competetive and only serves a purpose for the old firm to practice for europe.

 

the sfa and media preserve the old firm's power in every sense, but in the most real sense in monetary terms. These clubs get stronger and bigger and take more supporters with them from other places. They also try to purchase or steal the best young players in the country for peanuts, and have the arrogance and ignorance to believe that they have the right to do this, and get annoyed if they cannot e.g. goodwillie situation.

 

they usually do really badly in europe and part of the reason is because they are not tested during the league campaign

 

the problem with lack of fans is the cost mixed in with the recession, however people always find money if they need to and the underlying problems are as outlined above, i.e. a rubbish league dominated by a duo-opoly that wont let anyone else come close to them. It is quite frankly boring.

 

it is amazing that the media dont recognise this and actually get behind other teams when they go on a run.

 

the other thing they could do is increase the league to say 18 teams and play each other twice. I think this would help get a bit more variety in the league, however it has its own financial implications.

 

 

 

 

[Gregory House M.D.]

Since the inception of the SPL,

OF attendances are down 12%

Since it became a 12 team league, non OF Attendaces are down 16%.

 

Since the inception of the SPL, Hearts have had only a 0.33% dip in attendance.

Hibs (from season 99/2000) have also had less than a 1% dip. The worrying ones are killie (42%), motherwell (38%) and St Johnstone (45%), but also Aberdeen are down 28% and dundee united are down 20%.

 

in the past 17 years, there has only been one occasion where the top non OF team has finished with 15 points of the title winner. (us in 97-98)

Where did you get these figures from?

[Charlie-Brown]

High ticket prices simply don't reflect good value for money especially when considering the opportunty cost of the other things that money could buy instead.

 

In terms of fair value for the product offered SPL adult ticket prices should be ?15 maximum for category B games and ?20 maximum for category A games.

 

Falling attendances & reduced demand shows unequivocally that the match entry prices are simply too high - FACT!

[Victorian]

100% this, Fiona.

 

The prize money thing is a joke. I think Hearts wanted it more like in the EPL where the prize money is dished out in equal increments for each league placing (think there's about ?0.5M difference as you go down 1st:10m; 2nd:9.5m; 3rd:9m).

 

Funnily, assuming we're hitting our natural spot of 3rd, this would actual very slightly reduce our prize money. Hearts and you have to say VR - he gets credited for the negative stuff so only fair he does with the positive - actually seem to tale to the table things to progress Scottish football rather than ourselves. I'd say only Dundee United also outwardly do this.

 

The 11-1 voting system was totally designed to give the OF veto rights on anything which could harm them. For example, a couple of years ago it was suggested that the compensation for signing youth players from other teams be redesigned. The OF were able to veto it. I think in the end it may have passed, with only Celtic against it, my memory doesn't serve, but the point is it was something good for Scottish football and the OF were able to stand against it together.

 

 

 

if you had the time you could probably name about another 20 examples of things being done to suit the old firm, or instances when the voting system has enabled them to get their own way.

 

it's not even as if there is a big groundswell of resentment among the majority of other clubs. an awful lot of them appear to be quite content to feed off the scraps coming down from the top table. it doesn't engender much hope.

[Charlie-Brown]

The solutions are simply too painful for the clubs and fans to voluntarily adopt or accept so there will be few meaningful changes and continued decline is inevitable until eventually drastic change will be forced upon them but even then they will still choose the sub-optimal self serving self preservation options instead of radical change necessary to regenerate our football.

[TheBigO]

High ticket prices simply don't reflect good value for money especially when considering the opportunty cost of the other things that money could buy instead.

 

In terms of fair value for the product offered SPL adult ticket prices should be ?15 maximum for category B games and ?20 maximum for category A games.

 

Falling attendances & reduced demand shows unequivocally that the match entry prices are simply too high - FACT!

 

We tend to sell out our CatA games, Cat.

 

It's a very tough call. Would we be able to fill the stadium for CatB games at a lower price? Only if we were doing very very well a la '05.

 

As I said above, the clubs or SPL simply must carry out extensive market research to see whether lower pricing would draw more fans in. Even if you made the same amount of money at the turnstile, extra fans means extra pies etc and every little helps.

 

Did the McLeish report not cover this at all? It should have.

[Footballfirst]

Celtic and Rangers actually post their season ticket numbers in their annual accounts.

 

The numbers for the last two seasons' published accounts 2008/09 and 2009/10 were:

Centic 54,252 and 50,826 (down 6.3%)

Rangers 43,107 and 40,306 (down 6.5%)

 

We won't get last season's (2010/11) figures for a few months yet but In Rangers interim accounts, they indicated a further fall of 4.9% which would have taken them down to around 38,330.

Celtic's interim report acknowledged a fall but didn't quantify it, but I understand that the fall was significantly greater, given that the had lost the league to Rangers in each of the previous two seasons.

 

Celtic have now gone a 3rd season without the league so will probably have been impacted further. Despite winning the league 3 years in a row Rangers ST sales have been falling and for this season they have been hit by the uncertainty of the financial status of the club, the HMRC case and the Craig Whyte takeover.

 

I'd suggest that both clubs have serious financial worries and that is reflected in the way the transfer dealings are being conducted (or not).

 

The trend is not good.

 

 

[TheBigO]

Celtic and Rangers actually post their season ticket numbers in their annual accounts.

 

The numbers for the last two seasons' published accounts 2008/09 and 2009/10 were:

Centic 54,252 and 50,826 (down 6.3%)

Rangers 43,107 and 40,306 (down 6.5%)

 

We won't get last season's (2010/11) figures for a few months yet but In Rangers interim accounts, they indicated a further fall of 4.9% which would have taken them down to around 38,330.

Celtic's interim report acknowledged a fall but didn't quantify it, but I understand that the fall was significantly greater, given that the had lost the league to Rangers in each of the previous two seasons.

 

Celtic have now gone a 3rd season without the league so will probably have been impacted further. Despite winning the league 3 years in a row Rangers ST sales have been falling and for this season they have been hit by the uncertainty of the financial status of the club, the HMRC case and the Craig Whyte takeover.

 

I'd suggest that both clubs have serious financial worries and that is reflected in the way the transfer dealings are being conducted (or not).

 

The trend is not good.

 

Or is!

 

The rest of the league need to start taking them to task. If they are struggling now is the time to do it. As Chaz said above, self-preservation will always kybosh any radical movement in Scottish football and it's a crying emmeffer of a shame.

[Victor Meldrew]

It's really quite simple.

 

Give the customers (i.e. the fans) what they want: a larger, more competitive league so that they can go to see a match between teams which really matters. Making Scottish football more competitive isn't going to be easy but sorting out the TV revenues would be a start

[givememychoice]

Where did you get these figures from?

my calculations based on figures got from the spl website

[Charlie-Brown]

Until clubs can get their head round the need for the following little will change for the better

 

League expansion

Fewer repetitive fixtures

Lower Ticket Prices & more attractive ticketing packages & options

Fixed Kick Off Schedules to suit fans not the whims of TV

More Equal distribution of League income, sponsorship, TV & prize money

Shared Gate Receipts - 60% Home Club 40% Centrally pooled and equally distributed

Financial rules governing the following

Salaries capped as % turnover

Balanced Income v Expenditure

Debt Limits and Reserve requirements

Limits on Earned Income / Benefactor Income

Voluntary agreement on the number of home produced players and youth players included in matchday squads

[Francis Albert]

High ticket prices simply don't reflect good value for money especially when considering the opportunty cost of the other things that money could buy instead.

 

In terms of fair value for the product offered SPL adult ticket prices should be ?15 maximum for category B games and ?20 maximum for category A games.

 

Falling attendances & reduced demand shows unequivocally that the match entry prices are simply too high - FACT!

 

 

In that case Hearts revenue would be lower than it is now.

[Footballfirst]

I can recall that when I was going to matches in the 70s that the price was comparable to going to the cinema. Football now costs at least 3 x as much. The bulk of that money has gone in players wages, but without any improvement in the quality of the players.

[Charlie-Brown]

In that case Hearts revenue would be lower than it is now.

 

yes it possibly would however costs also have to be reduced - the SPL is a financially unstable product - all clubs costs have to be brought into line with earned income and capped as a % of turnover - clubs should also have debt limits as a % of assets and turnover - Hearts finances are a basket-case. Clubs should also have mandatory reserve to cover for unexpected drops in income or cashflow lost to unforeseen things like lots of cancelled games or bad weather or a bad season etc.

 

Since the inception of the SPL you could use it as an objective example of how NOT to financially manage football clubs and league - the combined debts and losses have been horrific.

 

Radical change is needed.

[Buffalo Bill]

I'd rather it was cheaper to get in (between ?10 and ?15) and see an end to overpaid, rubbish journeyman players who have extracted millions off us over the last 10 years.

 

 

 

Germany leads the way in terms of pricing, stadia and infrastructure.

[KillieMitch]

Some good points already on this thread, which I'll now try to ruin no doubt.

 

The Imp: You're totally right, but I think the worry is that teams slash prices and the numbers don't come. The thinking is that those who come to football are those who come. A tenner less won't cram people into Rugby Park, so fleecing the loyal ones is the way to go. Not saying I agree and I'd suggest thorough market research is needed either by the SPL or individual clubs.

 

heartsfc_fan: I'm pretty sure our attendances peaked in 05/06 but then since the following season we've risen year by year. Definitely the only team to do so.

 

Jimpanzee: Of course the monotony of OF dominace is killing our game. Noone worthwhile will ever say or do anything about it though. Look at Stephen Thompson at United. Good chairman, outspoken about what is wrong and seems pretty proactive. But he couldn't get voted on to the SFA board - Lawell of Celtic got on no probs even after all their vile bullshit last season. In a massive way, we need VR to follow through and scare them shitless. With success could come clout.

 

Mitch: That sounds interesting - got a link or seen it in print at all?

 

Just so you know, I'm considering calling everyone by girls names today. That won't be annoying.

 

Link to the news item here: http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2011/08/03/motherwell-report-season-ticket-growth/#5

She said a lot more on sportsound though. One of the things was getting the stadium in use most days of the week, getting schools in to train and using it for events for young people etc. The philosophy was to make the club a place that people were used to and wanted to come back to.

 

The bigger problem, not yet brought up, is simple geography. Motherwell, St Mirren, Hamilton, Thistle and Killie are all commuter towns for Glasgow these days. I'm from a wee town just outside Kilmarnock. I live in Glasgow now - but when I went back home this week every wee kid was wearing a Rangers or Celtic top. When I looked around though, all the families in my street are now from Glasgow (or in and around) who have moved here to commute and therefore legitimate enough Old Firm fans passing it on to their kids. It's sucking the local support away to a large extent.

[Gregory House M.D.]

my calculations based on figures got from the spl website

 

That's where mines are from, and it doesn't show any averages until 01/02... Was just wondering where the rest of the averages came from?

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Looking back, I get the impression that the SPL money at the end of the 90's could be seen as a last hurrah in Scottish Football unless changes are made.

 

What changes though?

 

This poster ain't got a ******* clue what will turn Scottish Football around but pricing caps on wages/ticket pricing would be a start.

 

There is no doubt that foreign players on our shores can enhance the Scottish game, but I often wonder though if the number of players who do come across and play in the SPL could not be replaced by players who were plying their trade in Scotland already - either in a lower division or in the youth set up of the respected club.

 

Buffalo Bill mentions Germany - was there not something that they had drawn up several years ago as the product of the Bundesliga as well as the quality of the players coming through to the National team was becoming a concern?

[Rossmor38]

I don't think people will come back to the Scottish game until we get more managers in that want to play football as opposed to the headless chicken type pressing game we see from a lot of Scottish teams. Some SPL teams are charging nearly ?30 for a home league match this season which is just ridiculous considering the poor spectacle on offer most of the time.

 

There's far too many league teams in Scotland TBH, 42 league teams when you have only a population of 5m are numbers that don't really fit. What is really needed but will never happen is no relegation from the SPL for a few years so that teams can relax and start playing football instead of playing defensive 4-5-1's thus flooding the midfield and strangling the game.

[givememychoice]

That's where mines are from, and it doesn't show any averages until 01/02... Was just wondering where the rest of the averages came from?

they used to have them, and wikipedia uses the correct figures (checked when they WERE up on the spl site)

[RoussetsShorts]

I'd rather it was cheaper to get in (between ?10 and ?15) and see an end to overpaid, rubbish journeyman players who have extracted millions off us over the last 10 years.

 

 

 

Germany leads the way in terms of pricing, stadia and infrastructure.

 

That old chestnut. The only reason they can do such cheap gates is - sponsorship receipts (?573m) and broadcast income (?594m) - The SPL is like chicken feed compared to that. It's also unfair to compare anything in Scotland to anything in Germany due to the relative size of economy and population.

 

In conclusion - The SPL cannot recreate ANYTHING the bundesliga does in terms of pricing.

[Gregory House M.D.]

That old chestnut. The only reason they can do such cheap gates is - sponsorship receipts (?573m) and broadcast income (?594m) - The SPL is like chicken feed compared to that. It's also unfair to compare anything in Scotland to anything in Germany due to the relative size of economy and population.

 

In conclusion - The SPL cannot recreate ANYTHING the bundesliga does in terms of pricing.

 

 

Adapt to suit. Don't think anyone's expecting us to just copy Germany.

[Charlie-Brown]

1) Fewer people are attending SPL matches each season

2) Fewer people are prepared to pay the prices being asked for SPL matches compared to other ways they could spend that money

That automatically signals that the price / value being offered is mismatched and that prices are too high relative to what is being offered in exchange.

 

3) It might suit clubs to try to maintain higher prices and revenues with the burden falling on the reduced number of supporters continuing to attend or trying to make good the shortfall via additional television or sponsorship money etc but that will do zilch to reverse falling attendances because currently PRICES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE and fewer people are prepared to pay those prices at ALL SPL clubs.

[RoussetsShorts]

Adapt to suit. Don't think anyone's expecting us to just copy Germany.

 

:Vlad-Stupid: