i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Barclays Premier League Table 30 March 2008 17:59 P GD PTS 1 Man Utd 32 53 76 2 Chelsea 32 33 71 3 Arsenal 32 36 70 4 Liverpool 32 32 62 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 Everton 32 21 57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 Portsmouth 32 13 53 7 Blackburn 32 4 50 8 Aston Villa 32 8 49 9 Man City 32 0 49 10 West Ham 32 -4 44 11 Tottenham 32 6 39 12 Newcastle 32 -21 35 13 Middlesbrough 32 -17 34 14 Sunderland 32 -20 33 15 Reading 32 -21 32 16 Wigan 32 -19 31 17 Birmingham 32 -11 30 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18 Bolton 32 -18 26 19 Fulham 32 -24 24 20 Derby 32 -51 10 Home Grown managers in the Premiership and 7 of them are the bottom 9 clubs None in the top 5 Granted Redknapp is a good manager and I think Southgate is very decent But ona whole is this a country with the worst managers right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeVee Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Always has been - after Clough and (maybe) Revie I can't think of many really good English managers in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry Heart Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Only 9 English managers isn't it? Unless you're counting Hughes (Welsh), O'Neill (N. Irish) or Keane (Irish) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Last English manager to win the English top flight league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH13 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Last English manager to win the English top flight league? Howard Wilkinson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Howard Wilkinson? Correct. I had to word the question right as no English manager has won the Premiership! Ferguson, Dalglish, Wenger and Mourinho are the only ones that have as far as I can remember. I think, stress think, that Steve McLaren was the last Englishman to win any of the three top English trophies when he won the League Cup with Middlesborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 This is probably why Engerland have went down the foreign route twice in the last 3 appointement. Still, the jobs for the boys brigage down south want an English manager......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 This is probably why Engerland have went down the foreign route twice in the last 3 appointement. Still, the jobs for the boys brigage down south want an English manager......... It's not just the managers position though, it's the players too. English footballers are pretty over-rated imho with very few being what you could call world class. This is where the "Premiership Myopia" steps in. Best league in the world but very few English players. Those that are deemed to be good, or even average really, end up being sold for prices far far higher than they are worth. That Bent chappie that Spurs signed for ?17m for example! No wonder people buy tried and trusted continentals for a third of the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Only 9 English managers isn't it? Unless you're counting Hughes (Welsh), O'Neill (N. Irish) or Keane (Irish) ? Doh!!! I was including Hughes 0 god that makes the record even worse only 2 in top 10 (none in top 5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Correct. I had to word the question right as no English manager has won the Premiership! Ferguson, Dalglish, Wenger and Mourinho are the only ones that have as far as I can remember. I think, stress think, that Steve McLaren was the last Englishman to win any of the three top English trophies when he won the League Cup with Middlesborough. Oh my god so out of the past 45 Domestic trophies (3 a year for 15 years) one has went to an English Manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Oh my god so out of the past 45 Domestic trophies (3 a year for 15 years) one has went to an English Manager! Possibly an Englishman won something prior to McLaren. 1995 FA Cup - Joe Royle at Everton 1996 League Cup - Brian Little with Aston Villa were both prior to McLaren but McLaren was the first Englishman since Little to win something. Again I stress that I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Possibly an Englishman won something prior to McLaren. 1995 FA Cup - Joe Royle at Everton 1996 League Cup - Brian Little with Aston Villa were both prior to McLaren but McLaren was the first Englishman since Little to win something. Again I stress that I think! Villa won nowt in 96 but Joe Royle is one 2 out of 45 - shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Villa won nowt in 96 but Joe Royle is one2 out of 45 - shocking Villa beat Leeds 3-0 in the 96 League Cup Final. Honest! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Football_League_Cup_Final http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Honours/0,,10265,00.html if you don't trust wikipedia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 In the last 10 years Celtic have had Jansen, Venglos, Barnes, O'Neil, Strachan as manager whilst Rangers have had Advocaat, McLeish, Le Guen & W.Smith...that is 6 from 9 being non-Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 In the last 10 years Celtic have had Jansen, Venglos, Barnes, O'Neil, Strachan as manager whilst Rangers have had Advocaat, McLeish, Le Guen & W.Smith...that is 6 from 9 being non-Scottish. I reckon theres a good chance collectively the scottish ones have won more though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I reckon theres a good chance collectively the scottish ones have won more though? I am fairly certain Advocaat & O'Neil had a fairly impressive trophy haul between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 In the last 10 years Celtic have had Jansen, Venglos, Barnes, O'Neil, Strachan as manager whilst Rangers have had Advocaat, McLeish, Le Guen & W.Smith...that is 6 from 9 being non-Scottish. Fail to see your point 99% of teams in Scotland have Scottish managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 I am fairly certain Advocaat & O'Neil had a fairly impressive trophy haul between them? Any Tom Dick or Harry will win silverware with the bigot brothers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Fail to see your point 99% of teams in Scotland have Scottish managers This hasn't always been the case though in recent years with Aberdeen, Motherwell, Hibs, Hearts all had foreign / english managers nevermind Rangers or Celtic having 2/3rd non-Scots in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Fail to see your point 99% of teams in Scotland have Scottish managers plus theres a few decent Scottish managers outside Scotland, are there any decent English managers outside England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 plus theres a few decent Scottish managers outside Scotland, are there any decent English managers outside England? Indeed. The problem facing young up-and-coming English managers now is that all the top jobs are closed off. England, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea (normally, and this probably brief interregnum of Avram Grant excepted), Tottenham and Man City will only appoint proven, accomplished operators - while the best British managers, Moyes and O'Neill, are at Everton and Villa. This leaves Newcastle as the biggest job any English manager can realistically hope to attain - and creates a self-fulfilling cycle whereby the chance of winning things at a big club is denied, so the likes of Curbishley, Coppell, Boothroyd, Bruce or Jewell end up pigeonholed as tu'penny ha'penny managers, who big clubs will not gamble on - and hence, lack the experience or CV to take the England job when it comes up too. Given the EPL is now, because it enjoys far and away more wealth than any other league, the best in the world, it's really only natural that big clubs should look to appoint the best managers as well as sign the best players. But this leaves English managers, many of whom have done nothing wrong up to now, and remarkable things at smaller clubs, on the outside looking in. Even someone like Mark Hughes, British but not English, looks to have a seriious problem on his hands. A CL club has bigger fish to fry than recruiting someone straight from Blackburn - so how does he gain the chance to show what he can do with more money and more resources? This is also why I believe Moyes may well end up taking the Celtic job: he's brilliant, but has no chance of ending up at Man Utd, say, until he's won championships and especially achieved big things on the CL stage. What's the answer? Simple. Go abroad. Italian and Spanish players come from countries with big, strong leagues, yet they have much less compunction about playing in other country than English or indeed British players do - and it's the same for managers. What's to stop a promising English boss ending up at, say, Feyenoord, Sporting Lisbon, AEK, Hamburg or Trabzonspor? Nothing that I can see; yet none will take the risk. It's clearly a cultural thing: look at the way Brits stick together when holidaying in Spain or Portugal, for example; but it's also parochial and arrogant for players and managers to believe they have nothing to learn from other footballing cultures. Indeed, the tactical education it would provide could be priceless if any ultimately wanted to become England boss - but it's up to them. That should be the response the moment any of them next complain about having their careers blocked off: its they who've blocked it off by refusing to think outside the box, and look to really make a name for themselves elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Another good post Shaun. I guess Coleman tried his hand at the Spanish leagues. I think part of the problem is the old joke: if you speak three languages you are trilingual, if you speak two languages you're bilingual, if you speak one language you're British. I don't see why Moyes needs to leave Everton as long as the board keep backing him as they have at the moment. They seem like a club on the up and will be one of the better teams in the Uefa Cup next year (assuming they keep the squad together). This may well be the proving groung of young EPL managers - Look at Second Choice Steve getting the England job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Another good post Shaun. I guess Coleman tried his hand at the Spanish leagues. I think part of the problem is the old joke: if you speak three languages you are trilingual, if you speak two languages you're bilingual, if you speak one language you're British. I don't see why Moyes needs to leave Everton as long as the board keep backing him as they have at the moment. They seem like a club on the up and will be one of the better teams in the Uefa Cup next year (assuming they keep the squad together). This may well be the proving groung of young EPL managers - Look at Second Choice Steve getting the England job. As did John Toshack before. As well as El Tel & Bobby Robson. But only Tel & Bobby are English and were pretty much established when they went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 As did John Toshack before. As well as El Tel & Bobby Robson. But only Tel & Bobby are English and were pretty much established when they went. Souness went to Turkey as well, however the only guys i can think of who have had quite a few jobs abroad are Roy Hodgson and Stuart Baxter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 plus theres a few decent Scottish managers outside Scotland, are there any decent English managers outside England? excellent point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Gary Johnsson of Bristol city I think is clearly agood manager He will be in Premiership regardless next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Ian Malcolm Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 This year's FA Cup will be won by an english manager (ironic that it could be with a welsh club mind you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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