Club Accounts - again sorry.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Come on guys, I think it is fair to see the point Jambo Robbo is making ie we are unlikely to bring a Craig Gordon through the youths often and get such a fee.

If our business model were made on such assumptions it would surely be reckless.

 

 

Exactly. It's a great one off piece of business. However, it's not a sign that we're about to start turning a profit year after year.

[topcat]

In your opinion.

 

 

 

We've sold one 7M player in the history of the club. IMO, thats unlikely to recur.

 

If we were talking a typical transfer that we did every year (say 1M), you'd have a point. But we're not. We're talking a one off transfer that is almost the size of the annual turnover of the whole club.

 

While there is a valid point in there you overstate your case

 

For most of the history of football (not just our club) nobody anywhere had sold a player for ?7m.

 

The first one was Andy Cole from Newcastle United to Manchester United in 1995.

 

In the 13 years since then the Record has risen 340% to ?30.8m for Shevchenko which represents inflation at the rate of around 12%. Inflation has been historically high over that period but even if you follow the record back for a century then the rate comes to just over 10%

 

Trying to measure the overall trend by the extreme examples is of course unlikely to give you extreme precision but it is the easiest to find data for and it should serve as a rough guide.

 

the fact remains that ?7m at todays prices is big but its not an amazingly big fee. (As evidenced by the fact that would be relegation dodgers Sunderland were willing to pay that much for just a goalkeeper).

 

Certainly Craig Gordon was an unusualy high fee and it may be a few seasons before we see the likes again but it's hardly as freakish an occurence as you imply.

 

By the way:

The ?32,000 that Spurs paid for Dave McKay represented half the world record at the time (1957, John Charles from Leeds to Juventus, ?65,000) and so is roughly equivelant to ?15.4m today.

 

According to various elderly Hearts and Spurs fans it was Spurs that got the best deal.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

While there is a valid point in there you overstate your case

 

Agreed I overstated it a bit. But only in response to people who are overstating the opposite case even further. I don't see you picking them up on it though......

[Coco]

While there is a valid point in there you overstate your case

 

For most of the history of football (not just our club) nobody anywhere had sold a player for ?7m.

 

The first one was Andy Cole from Newcastle United to Manchester United in 1995.

 

In the 13 years since then the Record has risen 340% to ?30.8m for Shevchenko which represents inflation at the rate of around 12%. Inflation has been historically high over that period but even if you follow the record back for a century then the rate comes to just over 10%

 

Trying to measure the overall trend by the extreme examples is of course unlikely to give you extreme precision but it is the easiest to find data for and it should serve as a rough guide.

 

the fact remains that ?7m at todays prices is big but its not an amazingly big fee. (As evidenced by the fact that would be relegation dodgers Sunderland were willing to pay that much for just a goalkeeper).

 

Certainly Craig Gordon was an unusualy high fee and it may be a few seasons before we see the likes again but it's hardly as freakish an occurence as you imply.

 

By the way:

The ?32,000 that Spurs paid for Dave McKay represented half the world record at the time (1957, John Charles from Leeds to Juventus, ?65,000) and so is roughly equivelant to ?15.4m today.

 

According to various elderly Hearts and Spurs fans it was Spurs that got the best deal.

 

How many players from Scottish clubs have been sold for more than ?7m - from the Scottish club?

[topcat]

Agreed I overstated it a bit. But only in response to people who are overstating the opposite case even further. I don't see you picking them up on it though......

 

See people

 

If you try hard enough he can be made to back down (a bit)

 

Further rooting about shows that Hearts once sold the most expensive player in the world. Percy Dawson left for Blackburn Rovers in Feb 1914 for ?2,500 a move which probably saved his life when you think about it

 

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/BLACKBdawson.htm

[Guest JamboRobbo]

See people

 

If you try hard enough he can be made to back down (a bit)

 

If you have a point, I'll say so. Talk ****e, I'll say so too. I don't think that is unreasonable.

[NoseLikeMahe]

Players don't show as losses on a P&L. They do show as liabilities, rather than assets on a balance sheet though.

 

JR's point is clearly that if your business model relies on regularly selling an asset for well above what you would have budgeted it's worth at in order to remain viable, then you wont remain viable for very long.

 

The interest being charged on the debt is fairly comparable with what's available in the UK lending market. No bad deal, but also no special treatment for a subsidiary company.

 

I think the interesting thing next year will be to see how much of the loans that become repayable this year will be called in and how much will simply be "re-financed".

 

Hearts (like many companies) are sort of the equivalent of people who open up new credit cards every month and do balance transfers in order to avoid actually ever paying any of it off. It works for a while and gives you some breathing space... but eventually the lender start closing the doors and you have to put your hand in your sky rocket.

[Gibbo]

How many players from Scottish clubs have been sold for more than ?7m - from the Scottish club?

 

I can think of 3: Gordon, Alan Hutton from Rangers to Spurs for ?9m & Giovanni van Bronckhurst from Rangers to Arsenal for ?8.5m. There have been only 2 other sales by a Scottish club other than the Old Firm for over ?2m; Scott Brown by Hibs to Celtic for ?4.4m & Duncan Ferguson by Dundee Utd to Rangers for ?4m.

 

The problem with looking at transfers relative to the world or British record is that fees in England & the other top countries have increased by much more than those in Scotland, especially by non-OF clubs. When we bought Derek Ferguson for ?750,000 in 1990 the record for a British player was ?4.25m for Chris Waddle's move from Spurs to Marseilles. In the late 60s we paid ?20,000 each for Jim Townsend & George Millar; the British record was then ?115,000 for Man Utd's purchase of Denis Law from Torino.

 

Going much further back, there was a time when we could compete near the top of the market. In 1923 we paid ?2,700 for John White of Albion Rovers, ?2,550 for Alex Wright of Aberdeen & ?750 for White's brother Willie from Hamilton. The British & world record was then ?5,500. In 1948 we bought Bobby Flavell from Airdrie for ?10,000, George Hamilton from Aberdeen for ?8,000 & Archie Kelly & Arthur Dixon of Clyde for ?5,000. The British record was then ?20,000.

 

We have once sold a man for a world record fee; Percy Dawson to Blackburn for ?2,500 in 1914. This was to part finance the current Main Stand but it eventually cost ?12,000. The current world record of ?46m for Zinedine Zidane's move from Juventus to Real Madrid compares with ?51m for a replacment stand & a hotel.