Winston Churchill

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

The greatest Briton ever.

 

I could sit and listen to his war speeches all night.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkTw3_PmKtc

 

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

 

Makes you proud to be British.

 

[Jamhammer]

Sent tanks in against striking Welsh miners. The ****

[Moriarty]

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few

 

 

God bless you sir

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Sent tanks in against striking Welsh miners. The ****

 

Defeating Hitler > annoying a few sheep shaggers.

 

[Nicholas Brody]

[Das Root]

Not so good at Middle East diplomacy though

[Eckauskas]

Defeating Hitler > annoying a few sheep shaggers.

 

 

One and the same, imo.

[Moriarty]

Nancy Astor was a native Virginian who became Britain?s first woman member of the House of Commons. In the 1930?s she headed a clique in the House of Commons that found something to admire in Hitler?s Germany. Churchill described an Astorite as an appeaser "who feeds the crocodile hoping that it will eat him last." One time shortly thereafter, Churchill found himself at Cliveden, the Astor mansion.

 

After dinner Lady Astor presided over the pouring of coffee. When Churchill came by, she glared and said. "Winston, if I were your wife, I?d put poison in your coffee." "Nancy," Churchill replied to the acid-tongued woman, "if I were your husband, I?d drink it.

 

:verysmug:

[Tommy Wiseau]

When Sir Winston Churchill was Prime Minister during the 1950s, there was a scandal involving one of his (male) MPs having sex with a Guardsman in St. James' Park. Churchill was surprised because it was cold that night. The man breaking the news to him said it was one of the coldest February nights for 30 years, to which Churchill said: "Makes you proud to be British."

 

 

[Johanes de Silentio]

Just as an aside - Jambos Kickback has a member named Winston Churchill.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Can anyone recommend any good books about the great man (no the guy off KB).

[Eckauskas]

I have it on good authority that the original Winston Churchill was a massive fan of what Ismeal Bouzid brought to Hearts as a defender.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Just as an aside - Jambos Kickback has a member named Winston Churchill.

 

 

Aye we know - "Driver for POTY" this, "why didn't we sign Bouzid to a long term deal" that...

[wibble]

pah

[I.J]

If Winston Churchill was a politician today, he'd be derided by the vast majority of JKB.

 

Quite rightly, too.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Sent tanks in against striking Welsh miners. The ****

 

 

Complete nonsense.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Can anyone recommend any good books about the great man (no the guy off KB).

 

 

Martin Gilberts's 'Churchill: A life

 

Carlo D'Este: Warlord

 

Andrew Roberts: Masters and Commanders

 

 

And the greatest of them all:

 

Winston Spencer Churchill: My Early Life.

 

Enjoy these at your leisure, Andy.

[Boris]

Churchill was the right man at the right time, and for that he will be remembered as a great war leader.

 

Domestically though he was a bit of reactionary.

 

A firm believer in the class system, fervently opposed to bolshevism and socialism, perhaps to paranoia. See his actions in quelling the "Red" Clydesiders. Tanks in George Square, Non Scots troops station in case of mutiny...

 

His comments in the 1945 General Election campaign accusing the Labour Party of wanting to institute a secret police were the ramblings of a booze soaked nutbar.

 

Interestingly the people of the UK voted him out at that election, knowing that the rebuilding of the country would be in better hands with Atlee & Bevan.

 

His inability to grasp the new world order post WWII, or perhaps his inability to recognise the demise of the British Empire, led to his isolation when the US & the Soviets were carving up the world.

 

However, all that aside, his wartime leadership elevates him to greatness. It was, it would seem, his destiny.

 

FWIW, the film Young Winston is genius.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Churchill was the right man at the right time, and for that he will be remembered as a great war leader.

 

Domestically though he was a bit of reactionary.

 

A firm believer in the class system, fervently opposed to bolshevism and socialism, perhaps to paranoia. See his actions in quelling the "Red" Clydesiders. Tanks in George Square, Non Scots troops station in case of mutiny...

 

His comments in the 1945 General Election campaign accusing the Labour Party of wanting to institute a secret police were the ramblings of a booze soaked nutbar.

 

Interestingly the people of the UK voted him out at that election, knowing that the rebuilding of the country would be in better hands with Atlee & Bevan.

 

His inability to grasp the new world order post WWII, or perhaps his inability to recognise the demise of the British Empire, led to his isolation when the US & the Soviets were carving up the world.

 

However, all that aside, his wartime leadership elevates him to greatness. It was, it would seem, his destiny.

 

FWIW, the film Young Winston is genius.

 

As for the bit in bold:

 

A splendid post

[Harry Palmer]

I've just seen this thread! Why wasn't I all over it?!

 

Bessie Bradock: "Sir, you are drunk."

 

Churchill: Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.

 

Agree he was the right man at the right time.

[Debut 4]

As it has today, Britain had many do-gooders in the country at the time(1930`s). Chamberlain was warned many times Germany were preparing for war but wouldn`t listen, he didn`t want Britain involved.

 

Thank god for Winston Churchill...a man who had guts. Britain worryingly had high profile Nazi sympathisers too. S cum.

[Patrick Bateman]

Britain worryingly had high profile Nazi sympathisers too. S cum.

 

And now they make Academy award winning films to commemorate them. Funny how history is so malleable.

[Debtor]

Can anyone recommend any good books about the great man (no the guy off KB).

 

 

 

Roy Jenkins did a very good biography. Well worth a read, and moves fast unlike many political books.

 

 

 

.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Churchill was the right man at the right time, and for that he will be remembered as a great war leader.

 

Domestically though he was a bit of reactionary.

 

A firm believer in the class system, fervently opposed to bolshevism and socialism, perhaps to paranoia. See his actions in quelling the "Red" Clydesiders. Tanks in George Square, Non Scots troops station in case of mutiny...

 

His comments in the 1945 General Election campaign accusing the Labour Party of wanting to institute a secret police were the ramblings of a booze soaked nutbar.

 

Interestingly the people of the UK voted him out at that election, knowing that the rebuilding of the country would be in better hands with Atlee & Bevan.

 

His inability to grasp the new world order post WWII, or perhaps his inability to recognise the demise of the British Empire, led to his isolation when the US & the Soviets were carving up the world.

 

However, all that aside, his wartime leadership elevates him to greatness. It was, it would seem, his destiny.

 

FWIW, the film Young Winston is genius.

 

That seems like a fair enough assessment. It's what he achieved in his moment of 'destiny' that makes him so great. All against the backdrop of manic depression. The 'black dog'. I'd say most of the great historical figures had major flaws.

[Harry Palmer]

That seems like a fair enough assessment. It's what he achieved in his moment of 'destiny' that what makes him so great. All against the backdrop of manic depression. The 'black dog'. I'd say most of the great historical figures had major flaws.

 

You're correct about the 'Black Dog.' Herr Hitler also suffered from it.

 

I read his book on the Second World War basically as it happened.......he believed he was destined for the role..something to do with the Duke of Marlborough or something.

 

Tbh his politics aside..switch from Tory to Liberal to Tory etc.. I mainly concentrate on the War years. Sorry.

[Snake Plissken]

Churchill was the right man at the right time, and for that he will be remembered as a great war leader.

 

Domestically though he was a bit of reactionary.

 

A firm believer in the class system, fervently opposed to bolshevism and socialism, perhaps to paranoia. See his actions in quelling the "Red" Clydesiders. Tanks in George Square, Non Scots troops station in case of mutiny...

 

His comments in the 1945 General Election campaign accusing the Labour Party of wanting to institute a secret police were the ramblings of a booze soaked nutbar.

 

Interestingly the people of the UK voted him out at that election, knowing that the rebuilding of the country would be in better hands with Atlee & Bevan.

 

His inability to grasp the new world order post WWII, or perhaps his inability to recognise the demise of the British Empire, led to his isolation when the US & the Soviets were carving up the world.

 

However, all that aside, his wartime leadership elevates him to greatness. It was, it would seem, his destiny.

 

FWIW, the film Young Winston is genius.

 

Saved me typing the very same.

 

The right man at the right time is how I would sum up Churchill, it's a very good thing the 1945 electorate took this view as well.

 

For me, Clement Atlee was one of the finest Prime Ministers this country has ever had.

[Jamhammer]

Complete nonsense.

 

Only it isn't.

 

My great Grandad was on a picket line in South Wales when soldiers with prototype tanks were sent by Mr Churchill to keep the peace. From an autobigraphy, "Following the 1910 general election Churchill became Home Secretary. Hes introduced several reforms to the prison system, including the provision of lecturers and concerts for prisoners and the setting up of special after-care associations to help convicts after they had served their sentence. However, Churchill was severely criticized for using troops to maintain order during a Welsh miners's strike." Believe he did the same in Glasgow. Not popular with a lot of Welsh folk. And "Sheep Shaggers", how original and witty is that? :angry:

[Jamhammer]

Saved me typing the very same.

 

The right man at the right time is how I would sum up Churchill, it's a very good thing the 1945 electorate took this view as well.

 

For me, Clement Atlee was one of the finest Prime Ministers this country has ever had.

 

This x 100

[Harry Palmer]

Sir Winston was also elected after Atlee.

 

Just pointing that out.

 

I'll stick to the war years....

 

Giving the 'Fateful Decision' to sink the French Fleet at Oran sent a message out that here was someone who would do what is necessary to keep Britain as alive as possible back then.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Saved me typing the very same.

 

The right man at the right time is how I would sum up Churchill, it's a very good thing the 1945 electorate took this view as well.

 

For me, Clement Atlee was one of the finest Prime Ministers this country has ever had.

 

 

Agree with both you and Boris on this one. I don't think anyone would straight faced argue he was a perfect man, or that we would wholesale agree with his politics in these times - or even then. But he was the man for his times and can be considered one of the greatest Britons of all time.

 

When it came to social change and lifting people from poverty, no one has done more than the Attlee government though.

[269miles]

Sent tanks in against striking Welsh miners. The ****

 

Erm , not quite.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonypandy_Riots

 

When I was a nipper (I'm 'only' in my 50s now) we had a family member who had spent a lot of his life in the RN (including the whole of WWII).

He reckoned WC was as big a fascist as Hitler and absolutely hated him.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

As it has today, Britain had many do-gooders in the country at the time(1930`s). Chamberlain was warned many times Germany were preparing for war but wouldn`t listen, he didn`t want Britain involved.

 

Thank god for Winston Churchill...a man who had guts. Britain worryingly had high profile Nazi sympathisers too. S cum.

 

Chamberlain was not alone on that score.

 

What was happening in Germany at the time was very very worrying, but there was a hell of a lot of people high up in Britain at the time who had been involved in the great war and simply wanted to do anything to avoid another blood bath. Obviously it was a war that had to be fought, but as I say, a generation was either killed/wounded or scarred mentally previously in the last campaign.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Erm , not quite.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Tonypandy_Riots

 

When I was a nipper (I'm 'only' in my 50s now) we had a family member who had spent a lot of his life in the RN (including the whole of WWII).

He reckoned WC was as big a fascist as Hitler and absolutely hated him.

The first man to authorise the dropping of chemical bombs from planes on civilians to control rowdy states within the empire as it was cheaper than sending in troops .

 

WC was in many an admirer of fascism the big thing for him was that he was a British Imperialist first and foremost so would never have laid down to Hitler . Did he help keep Britians spirits up during the period when we fought the Nazis alone yes ,did he know that Germany would never have really been able to invade the UK mainland i dont know . Was he happy that Hitler went for the USSR yes obviously .

He did not win the war most of his hair brained military plans failed at some cost and he often blamed the generals . He was not a fan of Montgumery either as Monty wasnt of him . Our servicemen and women those in the mines and factories on the home front ,those from our empire who fought beside us plus our allies are the ones .

He was booed when visiting Bomb sites in the london east end at one point .

 

The Labour partys win in 1945 could be argued was won by the votes of the returning servicemen which says a lot .

 

A very important man in our history the right man at the right time . A great towering figure in our history no doubt but not a good man if judged on modern standards .

[Big D]

Only it isn't.

 

My great Grandad was on a picket line in South Wales when soldiers with prototype tanks were sent by Mr Churchill to keep the peace. From an autobigraphy, "Following the 1910 general election Churchill became Home Secretary. Hes introduced several reforms to the prison system, including the provision of lecturers and concerts for prisoners and the setting up of special after-care associations to help convicts after they had served their sentence. However, Churchill was severely criticized for using troops to maintain order during a Welsh miners's strike." Believe he did the same in Glasgow. Not popular with a lot of Welsh folk. And "Sheep Shaggers", how original and witty is that? :angry:

He also gave the orders to break up peaceful demonstrations in Glasgow with tanks, and forced striking Stirlingshire and Fife miners back to work at the bayonet point of the 'British' Army. Sure the Anzacs fete him for his management of the Galipolli landings too. The man was a chancer, an opportunist spiv and at one time a nazi sympathiser. If that is the greatest Briton, thank god we're getting rid of Britain.

[Harry Palmer]

Iron Curtain....

 

Visionary.

[Boris]

Iron Curtain....

 

Visionary.

 

A curtain he helped design by supporting the Allied intervention in the embryonic Soviet State.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

 

A very important man in our history the right man at the right time . A great towering figure in our history no doubt but not a good man if judged on modern standards .

 

Perhaps not but I'd hate to find out how a 'modern standard' wartime leader would guide us through a world war.

[FWJ]

There's something about those speeches that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up - but maybe that's down to the speechwriter.

Not as universally loved by the war-time generation as we may now believe.

[Harry Palmer]

A curtain he helped design by supporting the Allied intervention in the embryonic Soviet State.

 

As I said earlier Boris, I'm not an expert on the man. But as far as a War Leader goes...thank feck he was there.

 

Stalin was great though.

[Boris]

As I said earlier Boris, I'm not an expert on the man. But as far as a War Leader goes...thank feck he was there.

 

Oh, I agree completely!

 

Stalin was great though.

 

Well, on the one hand he was a paranoid maniac who had no qualms about killing hundreds of thousands of people.

 

On the other, he dragged the Soviet Union into the 20th century through his programmes of industrialisation and the electrification of the country. Without this, then Hitler would have been quite right when he said that all the Germans needed to do was to "kick in the front door" and the "whole rotten building will collapse".

 

Whether we like it or not, "Uncle" Joe's style of leadership and willingness to sacrifice his people for the greater good played a massive role in deciding the outcome of WWII.

[Harry Palmer]

 

Well, on the one hand he was a paranoid maniac who had no qualms about killing hundreds of thousands of people.

 

On the other, he dragged the Soviet Union into the 20th century through his programmes of industrialisation and the electrification of the country. Without this, then Hitler would have been quite right when he said that all the Germans needed to do was to "kick in the front door" and the "whole rotten building will collapse".

 

Whether we like it or not, "Uncle" Joe's style of leadership and willingness to sacrifice his people for the greater good played a massive role in deciding the outcome of WWII.

 

Leaders have to be ruthless....and you're right. I'll point to trains and what they run on, oh and horses re Barbarossa.

 

Back to the topic....Winston became Prime Minister the same day that the Low Countries were invaded. Beforehand, one could argue he was at fault for the Norwegian campaign...which looking back was ludicrous to even try and occupy it from a British point of view. 4 days later he knew things were bad that he went for the LDV/Home Guard/Dad's Army. Eden gave the speech.

 

Still think his Oran decision sent the message. Churchill was good at tapping into the public feeling during the war...he also spent ages writing and rewriting his speeches or dictating his speeches...

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Churchill was the right man at the right time, and for that he will be remembered as a great war leader.

 

Domestically though he was a bit of reactionary.

 

A firm believer in the class system, fervently opposed to bolshevism and socialism, perhaps to paranoia. See his actions in quelling the "Red" Clydesiders. Tanks in George Square, Non Scots troops station in case of mutiny...

 

His comments in the 1945 General Election campaign accusing the Labour Party of wanting to institute a secret police were the ramblings of a booze soaked nutbar.

 

Interestingly the people of the UK voted him out at that election, knowing that the rebuilding of the country would be in better hands with Atlee & Bevan.

 

His inability to grasp the new world order post WWII, or perhaps his inability to recognise the demise of the British Empire, led to his isolation when the US & the Soviets were carving up the world.

 

However, all that aside, his wartime leadership elevates him to greatness. It was, it would seem, his destiny.

 

FWIW, the film Young Winston is genius.

 

 

Winston Churchill brought in legislation to reduce the working week to 40 hours, he created old age pensions and labour exchanges.

 

Some reactionary.

 

Some of the points you have made are crass in the extreme and in fact you're views on socialism are about as outdated as Winstons on the Empire.

 

At Yalta he was sidelined because Roosevelt was a sick and dying man who had one dream only: the creation of The UN, and was willing to sign up to anything Stalin wanted in order to get the Marshall's agreement. Churchill spent most of the time trying to save Poland. He was aware of the end of Empire and was more concerned with the future than the past.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Only it isn't.

 

My great Grandad was on a picket line in South Wales when soldiers with prototype tanks were sent by Mr Churchill to keep the peace. From an autobigraphy, "Following the 1910 general election Churchill became Home Secretary. Hes introduced several reforms to the prison system, including the provision of lecturers and concerts for prisoners and the setting up of special after-care associations to help convicts after they had served their sentence. However, Churchill was severely criticized for using troops to maintain order during a Welsh miners's strike." Believe he did the same in Glasgow. Not popular with a lot of Welsh folk. And "Sheep Shaggers", how original and witty is that? :angry:

 

You're wrong. I suggest you read Martin Gilbert's life of Winston to get the truth.

 

The Chief Constable of Glamorgan paniced. Though he had 1400 police at his disposal he asked for 400 soldiers. When Winston heard troops were on the way he ordered the soldiers to stop their deployment and that the Constable use police only. Cavalry were halted at Cardiff.

 

He ordered extra police from London whilst strikers began attacks on Collieries and the police (unarmed) drove them off. The strikers then moved to Tonypandy were they destroyed a number of small shops.

 

The rioting got worse and Winston ordered a squadron of Cavalry on standby but he wanted them kept away as far as possible but to be available if required. They were not required.

 

The strikers eventually accepted Winston's offer of talks and he was attacked by the Tories for his conciliatory attitude to the strikers.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

He also gave the orders to break up peaceful demonstrations in Glasgow with tanks, and forced striking Stirlingshire and Fife miners back to work at the bayonet point of the 'British' Army. Sure the Anzacs fete him for his management of the Galipolli landings too. The man was a chancer, an opportunist spiv and at one time a nazi sympathiser. If that is the greatest Briton, thank god we're getting rid of Britain.

 

 

I'm sure there is a suitable Churchillian quote somewhere that adequately refutes the steaming pile of ordure that is this post from Scotia's finest.

[ToadKiller Dog]

David Icke knows

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Another worthwhile book on Churchill is David Reynolds 'In Command of History'

[ianski77]

Iron Curtain....

 

Visionary.

 

Sorry, I think it was Goebbles who first came up with the phrase but he didn't get much credit post 1945

[Harry Palmer]

Sorry, I think it was Goebbles who first came up with the phrase but he didn't get much credit post 1945

 

I'm not an expert...

 

Seem to recall reading that somewhere.

 

Think you're probably correct though...

[3fingersreid]

if you ever get a chance to visit the war cabinet rooms/Churchills war museum in london do so its superb -even young kids will love it as its very interactive

[Big D]

I'm sure there is a suitable Churchillian quote somewhere that adequately refutes the steaming pile of ordure that is this post from Scotia's finest.

That fact that you are sure you there is a quote, but are unable to supply one says every thing about the Churchillian cover up. The steaming pile of ordure you mention was my great and grandfathers lives. I'm sure many others on this board have similar histories. If you want to debate, happy to help you. If you want to behave like a Con/Dem, you are beyond a Scot's reasonable help.