In Defence of Frail

[I'M IBRAHIM TALL]

Before I make my point can i say 2 things.

 

1. I dont want Frail to be our next manager

2. I'm not saying this because we won today

 

I think Frail is getting a very raw deal in here. The guy has been put in charge of what can only be called a circus. Many stories got out about unrest amongst the players under schysters like Malofeev and Angel. Whether or not they are the players we want in a Hearts jersey, Frail has at least made inroads into fostering some kind of spirit.

 

There is a massive difference in being a lapdog and in being the only man at the club in a coaching capacity that gives a ****. If Frail walks then the alternative is another faceless member of the triangle, and before we know it we are back to square one. Take today for instance. Nade talks back to him and everyone says Nade has shown total lack of respect. He leaves him on and people have a pop. If he had taken him off and put Elliot on then again, he would have gotten pelters.

 

I would much rather Frail was never given the chance to run the team. I hope beyond hope that Romanov makes good and gives us a proven manager. But it does anoy me that Frail turns up every week and does a job and is branded a yes man, yet we turn up every week and are seen as crusaders trying to bring the whole thing down. I appreciate my argument for backing Frail might not be watertight but I genuinley see a guy that, like us, is appreciative of what Hearts is all about and is trying (to the best of his abilities) to make the best of a bad, no stupid, situation.

 

Right, I'm away to put my tin hat on:)

[Coco]

I also don't want Frail to be the next manager.

 

I think that he has been pandering to VR in including the likes of Ivaskevicius, Ksnavicius, Zaliukas and Beniusis in some of his squads/teams. The amount of time he has given Ksnavicius in particular on the pitch is ridiculous.

 

I thought we went meekly out of both cups.

 

But in our last 7 of 8 games against nonOF opposition - our real comparisons these days after the cost cutting has started to bite - we have had clean sheets. The only goal lost was due to Karapidis' cowardice at St Mirren. And we are unbeaten in those 8 games.

 

Frail deserves a lot of credit for that.

[DavyMcL]

If for no other reason but his own career, Frail has stayed too long. If he'd gone in October I'm pretty sure he'd have walked into another job. Not so sure now though.

[cosanostra]

He needs to get back to coaching footballers, not making footballing decisions and definitely not speaking to the press.

 

Hopefully he'll be doing his coaching at Riccarton next season.

[Examiner]

Is there any manager outside of the Old Firm who has a better record than Frail since he took over?

[Snake Plissken]

we have been better under Frail - ours has been 3rd place form since he took charge. I guess it depends if we still think 3rd place should be the goal.

[Ryan Gosling]

He's had 12 league games.

 

1-4 (Dundee Utd)

1-1

1-0

1-0

2-0

-

1-0

-

3-0

1-1

0-0

1-0 (Dundee Utd)

 

I've removed the Old Firm results from that as we're not on their level - that's a full round of matches.

 

Impressive.

 

If he got 38 games, on those results we'd finish with 67 points.

[Examiner]

we have been better under Frail - ours has been 3rd place form since he took charge. I guess it depends if we still think 3rd place should be the goal.

 

It would be a bloomin' good goal from where he inherited us

[portobellojambo1]

Like the OP I also feel that Frail is not suited to be manager.

 

The statistics prove that results have picked up post his initial game at Tannadice, and excluding the games versus the OF, but there still seems to be something missing, difficult to explain what, but there is something not there in the team. It could be the fact that for the present squad playing for, and giving everything for, the jersey is no longer the top priority, priority number one is checking that their salaries have been paid into their bank accounts.

 

I would like to hope that a coaching role will be found for Frail at Hearts, assuming of course he wants to take it, under the new set up.

 

Actually got into a conversation with someone I met for the first time, in The Balmoral, today and we had an interesting discussion about the potential new manager, and the problems he may inherit, due to fans expectations. We got talking about the fact that whoever is appointed comparisons will then be made, and unfortunately many will include within that comparison the short spell we had under Burley. We agreed that in many ways any comparisons we make will have to be done assuming Burley was never here, because his short reign was so different to what we have become used to over the years.

 

Think I am old enough or wise enough (know I am not both !!!) to realise that a new manager coming in, needed though he is, will not instantly cure any ills there are, and will need time before judgement is reached. If he can initially put a spark back into the team, which I think is missing at the moment, and get them playing for Hearts because they want to I would accept that as a starting point on which we can then progress.

[paulah]

I dont want Frail as manager either,but he is passionate about our club and i do hope we keep him there in a coaching role

[Charlie-Brown]

Frail's results record stands comparison against Levein's tenure in any quarter at Hearts & Jim Jeffries in any season except 1997-98 season when we were exceptional. They too had their fair share of Old Firm humpings & meek cup exits.

[IMA MAROON]

I doubt any new manager will get better results than Frail.

[shaun.lawson]

Frail's results record stands comparison against Levein's tenure in any quarter at Hearts & Jim Jeffries in any season except 1997-98 season when we were exceptional. They too had their fair share of Old Firm humpings & meek cup exits.

 

I agree with this. But we are only talking about one 'quarter' of games here - and for some reason, Hearts seem to have made a habit over the years of being total pants in November and December, before really picking up as we head towards spring. It's a really good habit to have - momentum wise, it's equivalent to golfers always peaking in the third round - but not something new under Frail.

[Charlie-Brown]

Better performances & a better style of play would be preferable.

 

Dundee Utd were very disappointing today in how they played with over emphasis on big physical players - Wilkie Kenneth Kovacevic Kalvanes? DeVries Daly etc - by my reckoning 7 players have been sent off from either side in our 3 games with Utd this season.

[shaun.lawson]

Better performances & a better style of play would be preferable.

 

Dundee Utd were very disappointing today in how they played with over emphasis on big physical players - Wilkie Kenneth Kovacevic Kalvanes? DeVries Daly etc - by my reckoning 7 players have been sent off from either side in our 3 games with Utd this season.

 

Indeed. And like us, Dundee United have now had 8 players sent off this season: an awful disciplinary record which could end up costing them dear in terms of Europe. Motherwell are back in the driving seat now: and you have to say they've had something about them at times this season, whereas DU are solid, but very predictable.

[Only a Game]

I doubt any new manager will get better results than Frail.

 

so your expecting the new manager to get humped out the park at Tannadice, capitulate to Celtic and Rangers, fail to beat the likes of St Mirren away, surrender 2-0 leads in home cup ties and fail to beat Motherwell and Kilmarnock and Falkirk at home ?

 

Something to look forward to I'm sure

[Charlie-Brown]

I agree with this. But we are only talking about one 'quarter' of games here - and for some reason, Hearts seem to have made a habit over the years of being total pants in November and December, before really picking up as we head towards spring. It's a really good habit to have - momentum wise, it's equivalent to golfers always peaking in the third round - but not something new under Frail.

 

Well we only have Frail's results since January 2nd for comparison but to me they have been fairly a-typical of Hearts form in the last decade - we often had poorer first halves to season's and stronger momentum after christmas. Only if Frail got another 4 seasons could we make a genuine comparison - both Levein & Jeffries got 3rd in SPL twice although 1997-98 was easily the best in terms of our performances & results.

[shaun.lawson]

so your expecting the new manager to get humped out the park at Tannadice, capitulate to Celtic and Rangers, fail to beat the likes of St Mirren away, surrender 2-0 leads in home cup ties and fail to beat Motherwell and Kilmarnock and Falkirk at home ?

 

Something to look forward to I'm sure

 

Don't get me wrong - I hardly agree with IMA MAROON's argument that no manager could do better - but considering we're going to strip the squad of all big earners, and are heading for a period of austerity comparable, say, to those of 2000-2 or 1993-5, are you expecting the new manager to win at Fir Park and Pittodrie, thump Caley Thistle in their own backyard, and beat Hibs and Dundee United as well?

[Only a Game]

Frail's results record stands comparison against Levein's tenure in any quarter at Hearts & Jim Jeffries in any season except 1997-98 season when we were exceptional. They too had their fair share of Old Firm humpings & meek cup exits.

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

Frails record stands comparison with Korobochka, Clark and Mclean. all of whom were disposed of and none of whom anyone would want near the club again.

[shaun.lawson]

Well we only have Frail's results since January 2nd for comparison but to me they have been fairly a-typical of Hearts form in the last decade - we often had poorer first halves to season's and stronger momentum after christmas. Only if Frail got another 4 seasons could we make a genuine comparison - both Levein & Jeffries got 3rd in SPL twice although 1997-98 was easily the best in terms of our performances & results.

 

Well... Levein's 68 points from 38 games in our strangely underrated 03/4 campaign was only slightly inferior to JJ's 67 from 36 in 97/8, y'know! CL's league record overall was also quite a bit better than JJ's - but then, it's not an exact comparison, because points ratios for the top 4 or 5 went up when the SPL expanded to 12 teams (a league of ten resulted in constant fear factor football, really). I do take your point though.

 

As I've remarked before, our level was actually remarkably consistent throughout JJ's time here, and after five full years in charge, we were operating at exactly 1.5 pts/game. Indeed, in that context, statisticians would dismiss 97/8 and 98/9 as freak seasons, or indeed, the exception that proved the rule: because if you add the points totals from those two campaigns up, what do you get? Almost exactly 1.5 pts/game.

[jamboinglasgow]

he has done well, but I do think we need an experenced a manager.

 

what I could suggest is make SF head of the youth coaching. Give him the U19 posistion and overseaer of all coaching. Think the youths would benefit.

[shaun.lawson]

Absolute nonsense.

 

Frails record stands comparison with Korobochka, Clark and Mclean. all of whom were disposed of and none of whom anyone would want near the club again.

 

Except that it doesn't. His record currently stands at 21 points from 12 games - and if you exclude his first match at Tannadice (and let's face it: he'd hardly had time to get used to his new remit at that point), it's 21 from 11: very decent indeed.

[Only a Game]

Don't get me wrong - I hardly agree with IMA MAROON's argument that no manager could do better - but considering we're going to strip the squad of all big earners, and are heading for a period of austerity comparable, say, to those of 2000-2 or 1993-5, are you expecting the new manager to win at Fir Park and Pittodrie, thump Caley Thistle in their own backyard, and beat Hibs and Dundee United as well?

 

I'm expecting a manager to be appointed who can produce at least what Levein produced on half the budget, and twice the budget of any other club outwith the Old Firm. This is a **** poor league and third place ought to be an automatic assumption for a club the size of ours, even on a reduced budget from where we are now. I'm expecting us to beat lesser teams/clubs MOST times we play them either home or away. We havent been doing that under Frail, or anyone else in the last two years for that matter.

[Charlie-Brown]

Absolute nonsense.

 

Frails record stands comparison with Korobochka, Clark and Mclean. all of whom were disposed of and none of whom anyone would want near the club again.

 

You would struggle to find when Jeffries & Levein had better sequence of results and certainly quarters when they achieved less.

[rudi must stay]

got his tactics absolutely correct today imo, 1 upfront is negative at home but not against a team with their workrate so it meant we could match them. Don't think he should be manager though cos many of his subs are totally bizarre

[Charlie-Brown]

I'm expecting a manager to be appointed who can produce at least what Levein produced on half the budget, and twice the budget of any other club outwith the Old Firm. This is a **** poor league and third place ought to be an automatic assumption for a club the size of ours, even on a reduced budget from where we are now. I'm expecting us to beat lesser teams/clubs MOST times we play them either home or away. We havent been doing that under Frail, or anyone else in the last two years for that matter.

 

Levein didn't get 3rd place until his 3rd season (2nd full season + 1 half season) into the job - he had 18 months of changes to make before 3rd in the SPL was achieved.

[Only a Game]

Except that it doesn't. His record currently stands at 21 points from 12 games - and if you exclude his first match at Tannadice (and let's face it: he'd hardly had time to get used to his new remit at that point), it's 21 from 11: very decent indeed.

 

His record as manager stands at a win rate of 38%, worse than Korobochka did with the same set of players. Also a record that Graham Rix puts to shame. Was Rix decent ?

[rudi must stay]

His record as manager stands at a win rate of 38%, worse than Korobochka did with the same set of players. Also a record that Graham Rix puts to shame. Was Rix decent ?

 

Rix did okay in the job, we stayed in 2nd when he was there and got to the semi-final of the cup. Plus he beat Hibs 4-1

[Only a Game]

You would struggle to find when Jeffries & Levein had better sequence of results and certainly quarters when they achieved less.

 

A quick check reveals that JJ once had a run of 14 games without defeat and Levein once had a run of 19 games with only one defeat. Both managers regularly won 5 or 6 on the trot. That took me 3 minutes on London Hearts.

 

If you find "quarters" relevant feel free to check quarter by quarter yourself. Anything that might prove your apparent point that Frail is/was a better Hearts manager than either of them I suppose.

[Only a Game]

Rix did okay in the job, we stayed in 2nd when he was there and got to the semi-final of the cup. Plus he beat Hibs 4-1

 

So having Rix back would be an infinetly better step to take than appointing Frail then ? Not a great appointment, just a much better one than Frail would be ?

[Charlie-Brown]

A quick check reveals that JJ once had a run of 14 games without defeat and Levein once had a run of 19 games with only one defeat. Both managers regularly won 5 or 6 on the trot. That took me 3 minutes on London Hearts.

 

If you find "quarters" relevant feel free to check quarter by quarter yourself. Anything that might prove your apparent point that Frail is/was a better Hearts manager than either of them I suppose.

 

Jeffries also had 13 games without a win - Levein had successive Scottish cup exits to lower league teams (Inverness & Falkirk) and we were thumped both times.

 

I didn't say Frail was a better manager than either of them however his SPL results stand comparison with both Levein & Jeffries - I don't think they averaged much higher points per game in the SPL?

[Charlie-Brown]

So having Rix back would be an infinetly better step to take than appointing Frail then ? Not a great appointment, just a much better one than Frail would be ?

 

Rix had Burley's team & squad to pick from that also succeeded in qualifying for the champions league & winning the scottish cup.

[rudi must stay]

So having Rix back would be an infinetly better step to take than appointing Frail then ? Not a great appointment, just a much better one than Frail would be ?

 

i didn't say that. Basically i just don't think Rix did too badly here

[shaun.lawson]

I'm expecting a manager to be appointed who can produce at least what Levein produced on half the budget, and twice the budget of any other club outwith the Old Firm. This is a **** poor league and third place ought to be an automatic assumption for a club the size of ours, even on a reduced budget from where we are now. I'm expecting us to beat lesser teams/clubs MOST times we play them either home or away. We havent been doing that under Frail, or anyone else in the last two years for that matter.

 

Except that we didn't cut the wage bill anywhere near as much as we needed to under Levein. Otherwise, how do you think our debt rose so dramatically during his time in charge? Don't get me wrong - he did a very good job - but we only did so well because Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United etc were cutting back considerably more quickly than we were. And moreover, Levein certainly never had to contend with loanees being 'showcased', or any suggestion whatsoever of the owner telling him what players to pick; but Frail has.

 

In any case, let's cut to the chase here. Comments like those I've emboldened above worry the crap out of me. At what point are we going to get it through our heads that a club with a capacity of 17,000, which was playing to gates of only around 10-11K during Levein's much vaunted time here, is simply not that big? You think 3rd place should be an automatic assumption? So how do you explain our almost total failure to achieve it in back-to-back seasons ever since we came back up? How do you explain the constant boom/bust cycles of the last 30-40 years: cycles which in more recent times have seen us achieve small amounts of short-term success, only to pay a horrible penalty for years afterwards? Good grief - if we were that big, how on earth do you think we ended up in a position about to sell our stadium, and from which only a rich benefactor, motives unknown, could bail us out?

 

There's a constant contradiction on this forum. On the one hand, we rightly bemoan the shocking mismanagement of the club in recent times, and some genuinely fear for our future. On the other, most still seem to expect - no, demand - that we walk 3rd place as a bare minimum, while some even think we should be seriously challenging the Old Firm! Which is it? If costs are cut, as they damn well need to be, then I don't care if our budget is still bigger than the others: we'll simply be in a group with Dundee United, Hibs, Aberdeen and maybe others besides. Third place should never, ever be a demand: it smacks of arrogance, and suggests we've learnt precisely nothing from the excess of the last decade.

 

Because here's the thing: no matter how much we constantly protest about being the third force, our position there since the mid-90s has continually owed to our spending more (sometimes, a lot more) than we take in. No other club has done this as often, or for as long as we have - and just look at the mess it's left us in. Are Hearts the third biggest club in Scotland? Yes, probably. But in comparison with the Glasgow two, our impact is often that of a mosquito colliding with an elephant: the third force tag is a plastic trophy, and ultimately pretty meaningless. We have to start living within our means, and accepting that this will entail poor seasons as well as good ones - for if we don't, the only conclusion that can be drawn is we've overreached ourselves under Mercer, Robinson and Romanov because quite simply, Hearts fans wouldn't have it any other way.

[Only a Game]

i didn't say that. Basically i just don't think Rix did too badly here

 

You'd be right if you had said it though. Rix was a better (more sucessful) manager than Frail...........no arguement.

[rudi must stay]

You'd be right if you had said it though. Rix was a better (more sucessful) manager than Frail...........no arguement.

 

at the moment ye, Frail's only just started though. Rix had been a manager for years

[Charlie-Brown]

You'd be right if you had said it though. Rix was a better (more sucessful) manager than Frail...........no arguement.

 

Rix had a better team & squad to choose from - the quality of player in the 1st team was a higher standard. Did he do better with the (relative) resources at his disposal?

[shaun.lawson]

His record as manager stands at a win rate of 38%, worse than Korobochka did with the same set of players. Also a record that Graham Rix puts to shame. Was Rix decent ?

 

Except that Rix inherited what may have been our best side in almost half a century, and seemed on the point of messing it up completely when he was dismissed. His record everywhere else indicates in strong terms that in normal circumstances (ie. if he'd inherited an average side), his results would have been appalling.

 

Meanwhile, Frail inherited a total and utter shambles on and off the park, with us at our lowest ebb since at least 98/9 - and has stabilised things remarkably quickly. For the record, I don't want him as permanent manager: I'd like him to go back to coaching; but it's an insult to suggest either Rix or Korobochka were better.

[Charlie-Brown]

Levein at Hearts did however have to contend with the chairman telling him which players not to pick - these were mostly all for contractual or financial reasons.

[shaun.lawson]

Levein at Hearts did however have to contend with the chairman telling him which players not to pick - these were mostly all for contractual or financial reasons.

 

Mmm, true. Only very early on though (eg. Jackson, Petric and so on), IIRC?

[Only a Game]

Except that we didn't cut the wage bill anywhere near as much as we needed to under Levein. Otherwise, how do you think our debt rose so dramatically during his time in charge? Don't get me wrong - he did a very good job - but we only did so well because Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United etc were cutting back considerably more quickly than we were. And moreover, Levein certainly never had to contend with loanees being 'showcased', or any suggestion whatsoever of the owner telling him what players to pick; but Frail has.

 

In any case, let's cut to the chase here. Comments like those I've emboldened above worry the crap out of me. At what point are we going to get it through our heads that a club with a capacity of 17,000, which was playing to gates of only around 10-11K during Levein's much vaunted time here, is simply not that big? You think 3rd place should be an automatic assumption? So how do you explain our almost total failure to achieve it in back-to-back seasons ever since we came back up? How do you explain the constant boom/bust cycles of the last 30-40 years: cycles which in more recent times have seen us achieve small amounts of short-term success, only to pay a horrible penalty for years afterwards? Good grief - if we were that big, how on earth do you think we ended up in a position about to sell our stadium, and from which only a rich benefactor, motives unknown, could bail us out?

 

There's a constant contradiction on this forum. On the one hand, we rightly bemoan the shocking mismanagement of the club in recent times, and some genuinely fear for our future. On the other, most still seem to expect - no, demand - that we walk 3rd place as a bare minimum, while some even think we should be seriously challenging the Old Firm! Which is it? If costs are cut, as they damn well need to be, then I don't care if our budget is still bigger than the others: we'll simply be in a group with Dundee United, Hibs, Aberdeen and maybe others besides. Third place should never, ever be a demand: it smacks of arrogance, and suggests we've learnt precisely nothing from the excess of the last decade.

 

Because here's the thing: no matter how much we constantly protest about being the third force, our position there since the mid-90s has continually owed to our spending more (sometimes, a lot more) than we take in. No other club has done this as often, or for as long as we have - and just look at the mess it's left us in. Are Hearts the third biggest club in Scotland? Yes, probably. But in comparison with the Glasgow two, our impact is often that of a mosquito colliding with an elephant: the third force tag is a plastic trophy, and ultimately pretty meaningless. We have to start living within our means, and accepting that this will entail poor seasons as well as good ones - for if we don't, the only conclusion that can be drawn is we've overreached ourselves under Mercer, Robinson and Romanov because quite simply, Hearts fans wouldn't have it any other way.

 

 

All well and good and perfectly true in most of it.

 

However I wasnt talking about the past. I was talking about the current last couple of seasons and the immediate future. Bearing in mind that we have the financial support of a multi millionaire owner and a holding company with assets of over ?1billion (At no time in our history have we been in anything like this potential position financially)

 

Take this season for example. The squad we have, had they had a properly managed pre-season, proper coaching and tactics throughout the season, and no interference from the owner could and SHOULD have schooshed 3rd place. And even if we half our financial outlay from what it is now we'll still be far and away ahead of "the rest" in terms of spending power and potential.

 

The minimum return you should be expecting from that level of spending power above the others is 3rd place.

[Charlie-Brown]

Mmm, true. Only very early on though (eg. Jackson, Petric and so on), IIRC?

 

Maybe McSwegan too and possibly F.Simpson as well .... later on Pie-man decided which players were to be released / not offered contracts regardless of Levein's opinions of these players (Severin & Kirk) - I also wonder how much influence was put on Jeffries by Robinson to freeze out Paul Ritchie?

[Only a Game]

Meanwhile, Frail inherited a total and utter shambles on and off the park, with us at our lowest ebb since at least 98/9 - and has stabilised things remarkably quickly. For the record, I don't want him as permanent manager: I'd like him to go back to coaching; but it's an insult to suggest either Rix or Korobochka were better.

 

Frail was an integral part and a consenting participant in the total and utter shambles and, 3 results apart, has continued to be IMO.

[Charlie-Brown]

All well and good and perfectly true in most of it.

 

However I wasnt talking about the past. I was talking about the current last couple of seasons and the immediate future. Bearing in mind that we have the financial support of a multi millionaire owner and a holding company with assets of over ?1billion (At no time in our history have we been in anything like this potential position financially)

 

Take this season for example. The squad we have, had they had a properly managed pre-season, proper coaching and tactics throughout the season, and no interference from the owner could and SHOULD have schooshed 3rd place. And even if we half our financial outlay from what it is now we'll still be far and away ahead of "the rest" in terms of spending power and potential.

 

The minimum return you should be expecting from that level of spending power above the others is 3rd place.

 

 

I think Frail's SPL points percentage projected over 38 games would get you very close to 3rd place in most seasons?

[Charlie-Brown]

For the record I am not advocating Frail is the best person to be Hearts manager next season however his record shows he is capable of getting winning results against Levein, McGhee, Calderwood & Paateleinan etc.

[shaun.lawson]

Jim Jefferies

 

1995/6

 

8 (0.89)

14 (1.56)

18 (2.00)

15 (1.67)

 

1996/7

 

12 (1.33)

9 (1.00)

17 (1.89)

14 (1.56)

 

1997/8

 

18 (2.00)

19 (2.11)

19 (2.11)

11 (1.22)

 

1998/9

 

13 (1.44)

10 (1.11)

1 (0.11)

18 (2.00)

 

1999/0

 

15 (1.67)

5 (0.56)

20 (2.22)

14 (1.56)

 

2000/1

 

16 (1.45)

 

Craig Levein

 

2000/1

 

16 (1.45)

 

2001/2

 

13 (1.18)

15 (1.36)

14 (1.27)

 

2002/3

 

17 (1.55)

16 (1.45)

24 (2.18)

 

2003/4

 

20 (1.81)

19 (1.73)

16 (1.45)

 

2004/5

 

16 (1.45)

 

The figures in brackets are the ratio of points/game, which I've included because JJ's time involved four quarters of 9 games; and Levein's, three of 11 games (in which you'd generally expect slightly higher averages because a 12-team league is that bit more stretched out). As you can see, both JJ and CL produced some pretty dire returns on occasion - JJ especially - and Frail's record over his last eleven games of 21 points accrued compares very favourably with most of what his two celebrated predecessors managed.

[Charlie-Brown]

Jim Jefferies

 

1995/6

 

8 (0.89)

14 (1.56)

18 (2.00)

15 (1.67)

 

1996/7

 

12 (1.33)

9 (1.00)

17 (1.89)

14 (1.56)

 

1997/8

 

18 (2.00)

19 (2.11)

19 (2.11)

11 (1.22)

 

1998/9

 

13 (1.44)

10 (1.11)

1 (0.11)

18 (2.00)

 

1999/0

 

15 (1.67)

5 (0.56)

20 (2.22)

14 (1.56)

 

2000/1

 

16 (1.45)

 

Craig Levein

 

2000/1

 

16 (1.45)

 

2001/2

 

13 (1.18)

15 (1.36)

14 (1.27)

 

2002/3

 

17 (1.55)

16 (1.45)

24 (2.18)

 

2003/4

 

20 (1.81)

19 (1.73)

16 (1.45)

 

2004/5

 

16 (1.45)

 

The figures in brackets are the ratio of points/game, which I've included because JJ's time involved four quarters of 9 games; and Levein's, three of 11 games (in which you'd generally expect slightly higher averages because a 12-team league is that bit more stretched out). As you can see, both JJ and CL produced some pretty dire returns on occasion - JJ especially - and Frail's record over his last eleven games of 21 points accrued compares very favourably with most of what his two celebrated predecessors managed.

 

Excellent post Shaun & the effort to do that is much appreciated.

 

I shows proof of what I knew intuitively to be the case. If you beat Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Motherwell, Inverness & Gretna, draw with Falkirk & St Mirren but lose to Celtic & Rangers - that isn't bad form for Hearts.

[Ryan Gosling]

God, that final quarter in 1998 really killed us.

[Only a Game]

Excellent post Shaun & the effort to do that is much appreciated.

 

I shows proof of what I knew intuitively to be the case. If you beat Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Motherwell, Inverness & Gretna, draw with Falkirk & St Mirren but lose to Celtic & Rangers - that isn't bad form for Hearts.

 

 

Okay, I've had another look at the stats and its hands up from me. His results over the short period of time he has been the actual manager have been seriously diluted by failing to win any of the 3 cup ties he played, in fact losing two of them)

 

I accept that his return from SPL games has indeed been decent.

 

Still dont rate him above JJ or Levein and dont want him as manager, but point taken guys.

[shaun.lawson]

God, that final quarter in 1998 really killed us.

 

Indeed! There is a different way of looking at it though. Because we fell out of contention in that depressing week when we drew with Motherwell and lost at Hibs, the players were able to take a breather, and focus their energies entirely on the Cup Final. At no point in 97/8 did I ever feel we were quite good enough to win the league - we leaked too many goals, and our record against the OF just wasn't good enough - and if we'd kept going, I've always thought we'd have come up just short: very possibly on goal difference yet again.

 

Meaning every possibility of a distraught team performing an action replay of 85/6 and losing the final (in which, after all, we seriously carried our luck and only just won against an ageing, declining Rangers), and the wait going on even longer. Weird as it might sound, I've always considered it a blessing that we fell out of the title race when we did: looking back, it seems as if that side was fated to end our quest, but it could very easily not have happened - and then where would we have been?