Strasbourg, Lorient and Troyes not Happy....

[Martin_T]

With being owned and used for farming players by EPL clubs.

 

https://twitter.com/OliverKay/status/1785558870565310926?t=a1dR0lj7cI10ChgQirqWcQ&s=19

[Polonia Gorgie]

I would hate it if we were part of one of these multi-club-tier system, what I find extraordinary about it is, Bournemouth, as a football club is smaller than hibs and Lorient but because of Prem money they can be top of some pyramid system. I read somewhere that they don't care how the clubs do, as long as the players are getting developed ok.... 

[Pap]

These systems never work.

 

Hibs though, somehow magically think its all going to click and be the first ever team to benefit from it. Mental.

[meister]

Surely club owners are aware to this kind of ownership and how it affects themselves in whatever pyramid they end up in ?

 

You'd like to think that having someone like Foley turn up saying they'll bung £6m at you (a pittance really) when you're not going to be the top of the pile, would ring some sort of bells and he'd be told to sling his hook no ?

 

I get that some owners are ruled by their heart (Cormack for example) but they are generally successful, fairly switched on people, who have experience in football and  how it works. The minimum an owner should allow when even letting one of these guys over the door is "Will we be top of the pyramid ?". If the answer is no then it's sayonara Billy Big Bucks.

 

Lorient, Strasbourg, Hibs and others in similar situations may get into Europe, but they must know it'll only be if the parent club don't, and even then if more than one of them does qualify, does it become a bun fight between them to see who gets in ?

[buzzbomb1958]

21 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

I would hate it if we were part of one of these multi-club-tier system, what I find extraordinary about it is, Bournemouth, as a football club is smaller than hibs and Lorient but because of Prem money they can be top of some pyramid system. I read somewhere that they don't care how the clubs do, as long as the players are getting developed ok.... 

it’s just a scheme to bypass FFP rules no doubt if enough clubs get pissed off they will introduce rules to stop it

[Jim Panzee]

14 minutes ago, meister said:

Surely club owners are aware to this kind of ownership and how it affects themselves in whatever pyramid they end up in ?

 

You'd like to think that having someone like Foley turn up saying they'll bung £6m at you (a pittance really) when you're not going to be the top of the pile, would ring some sort of bells and he'd be told to sling his hook no ?

 

I get that some owners are ruled by their heart (Cormack for example) but they are generally successful, fairly switched on people, who have experience in football and  how it works. The minimum an owner should allow when even letting one of these guys over the door is "Will we be top of the pyramid ?". If the answer is no then it's sayonara Billy Big Bucks.

 

Lorient, Strasbourg, Hibs and others in similar situations may get into Europe, but they must know it'll only be if the parent club don't, and even then if more than one of them does qualify, does it become a bun fight between them to see who gets in ?

but if you're desperate for money.......is it too much to turn down. we know the h1b5 fans will never stump up like we do.....

[Aussie Jambo]

🤔

[Pap]

29 minutes ago, meister said:

Surely club owners are aware to this kind of ownership and how it affects themselves in whatever pyramid they end up in ?

 

You'd like to think that having someone like Foley turn up saying they'll bung £6m at you (a pittance really) when you're not going to be the top of the pile, would ring some sort of bells and he'd be told to sling his hook no ?

 

I get that some owners are ruled by their heart (Cormack for example) but they are generally successful, fairly switched on people, who have experience in football and  how it works. The minimum an owner should allow when even letting one of these guys over the door is "Will we be top of the pyramid ?". If the answer is no then it's sayonara Billy Big Bucks.

 

Lorient, Strasbourg, Hibs and others in similar situations may get into Europe, but they must know it'll only be if the parent club don't, and even then if more than one of them does qualify, does it become a bun fight between them to see who gets in ?

 

Wait. What would happen if all 4 teams qualified for Europe?

[karipidis]

5 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

Wait. What would happen if all 4 teams qualified for Europe?

I was just about to ask this....

[jamboinglasgow]

With these multi club groups, there has been successful ones like the Red Bull group of clubs and Man City, but I do wonder if its something that is not worth the money put in by owners and is only being done because of clubs are doing it so rich owners think they have to do it as well.

[kila]

7 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

Wait. What would happen if all 4 teams qualified for Europe?

 

Brown envelope to UEFA

[meister]

8 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

Wait. What would happen if all 4 teams qualified for Europe?

 

Not an expert in the slightest but I think (THINK) that it'd pretty much be Bournemouth would get in and the others lose out. Found this basic explanation but there are probably many intricacies that can be wormed around if the situation arises

"UEFA's 'Integrity of the UEFA Club competitions: Independence of clubs' rule was adopted in 1998 and became effective for the 2000/1 season. This states that no two clubs or more participating in a UEFA club competition may be directly or indirectly controlled by the same entity or managed by the same person."

 

Apologies, just found this as well.....

"Are UEFA relaxes multi club rules to allow teams owned by the same group to compete in different competitions?

From the 2024-25 campaign, clubs under common ownership that are prevented from playing in the same UEFA club competition will now be allowed to play in different UEFA competitions.22"

Edited May 1 by meister

[Chuck Berry]

2 minutes ago, meister said:

 

Not an expert in the slightest but I think (THINK) that it'd pretty much be Bournemouth would get in and the others lose out. Found this basic explanation but there are probably many intricacies that can be wormed around if the situation arises

"UEFA's 'Integrity of the UEFA Club competitions: Independence of clubs' rule was adopted in 1998 and became effective for the 2000/1 season. This states that no two clubs or more participating in a UEFA club competition may be directly or indirectly controlled by the same entity or managed by the same person."

 

As from today, they'd all get in;

 

https://theathletic.com/5362029/2024/03/22/uefa-multi-club-rules-champions-europa-league/

[Rods]

I think a pertinent point is being missed here especially with the Foley group.

 

These clubs are only susceptible to these vultures as they are in bother or their owners are bored/want out.  
 

All this blusto about partnerships is nonsense complete rubbish. 
 

The BK group for example were no doubt approached by the current owners at Hibs and with the proposition of being able to use Hibs for whatever they want. It would not surprise me if there is a full buy out clause for the BK group and essentially Hibs are in a try before you buy stage.

 

Tick Tock springs to mind for me.

[scott herbertson]

10 minutes ago, Rods said:

I think a pertinent point is being missed here especially with the Foley group.

 

These clubs are only susceptible to these vultures as they are in bother or their owners are bored/want out.  
 

All this blusto about partnerships is nonsense complete rubbish. 
 

The BK group for example were no doubt approached by the current owners at Hibs and with the proposition of being able to use Hibs for whatever they want. It would not surprise me if there is a full buy out clause for the BK group and essentially Hibs are in a try before you buy stage.

 

Tick Tock springs to mind for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Possibly - could also be a way of getting to 90% ownership when they could take the company into private ownership. - hence the further share issues which have got them close.  If the third investor agrees, the three parties could all sell to a new pwner who would have over 90% I think. No more AGMs or transparency and it becomes a personal plaything

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, Rods said:

I think a pertinent point is being missed here especially with the Foley group.

 

These clubs are only susceptible to these vultures as they are in bother or their owners are bored/want out.  
 

All this blusto about partnerships is nonsense complete rubbish. 
 

The BK group for example were no doubt approached by the current owners at Hibs and with the proposition of being able to use Hibs for whatever they want. It would not surprise me if there is a full buy out clause for the BK group and essentially Hibs are in a try before you buy stage.

 

Tick Tock springs to mind for me.

agree with a lot of this, I don’t doubt for a second that the Gordon’s at least would love a way out.

 

but as it stands a full sale to BK cannot happen, would need the league to change the rules again and I just don’t see that happening.  Why would other teams allow that? 

[meister]

16 minutes ago, Rods said:

I think a pertinent point is being missed here especially with the Foley group.

 

These clubs are only susceptible to these vultures as they are in bother or their owners are bored/want out.  
 

All this blusto about partnerships is nonsense complete rubbish. 
 

The BK group for example were no doubt approached by the current owners at Hibs and with the proposition of being able to use Hibs for whatever they want. It would not surprise me if there is a full buy out clause for the BK group and essentially Hibs are in a try before you buy stage.

 

Tick Tock springs to mind for me.

 

Yeah I think this was kinda my point as well, owners maybe want out and this is a quick way to do it, but surely there are folk at clubs who can see this stuff happening and stop it ? 

 

More and more clubs will go this way of ownership and soon it's going to be a stable of clubs that will compete in comps because they'll all be fixed at a specific level determined by the owners.

 

Take Hibs for example, will the target for BK always be that Bournemouth will be staffed and targeted at CL participation, while Lorient will be targeted at UEFA cup ? Buy another club to fill the UEFA Conference slot, and then Hibs can look after a league Cup every ten years ?? 

 

Wee bit tongue in cheek of course but still, would you be happy with that kind of ownership if you knew that your club owner would never allow you to progress too far in case it upset the club that was at the top of the pyramid ?

Edited May 1 by meister

[Daveandal]

I'm very much against this multiple club system. The only way it would be acceptable in any circumstance is if you were the top club. We could say have a feeder team in somewhere like Lithuania 😇.

 

In all seriousness is a sad indictment of the modern game. Every club, even Hibs, have their own unique history and represent a community. They aren't franchises to be traded.

[David McCaig]

7 minutes ago, meister said:

 

Yeah I think this was kinda my point as well, owners maybe want out and this is a quick way to do it, but surely there are folk at clubs who can see this stuff happening and stop it ? 

 

More and more clubs will go this way of ownership and soon it's going to be a stable of clubs that will compete in comps because they'll all be fixed at a specific level determined by the owners.

 

Take Hibs for example, will the target for BK always be that Bournemouth will be staffed and targeted at CL participation, while Lorient will be targeted at UEFA cup ? Buy another club to fill the UEFA Conference slot, and then Hibs can look after a league Cup every ten years ?? 

 

Wee bit tongue in cheek of course but still, would you be happy with that kind of ownership if you knew that your club owner would never allow you to progress too far in case it upset the club that was at the top of the pyramid ?

Was BK not looking to buy Standard Liege as club 3 in the pyramid, pushing the Wee Team in the structure another rung lower.

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Was BK not looking to buy Standard Liege as club 3 in the pyramid, pushing the Wee Team in the structure another rung lower.

It reminds me of Mike Ashley and Sports Direct buying up all the bankrupt brands of the past 

[Vlad Magic]

The proof of the pudding will of course be in the eating.

 

Something tells me the Hobbits will be feasting on dug meat for the foreseeable.

[gregzy2k7]

Hibs will soon realise they are up sh1t creek without a paddle with this new ownership model... 

 

Just when do you think it will sink in for some of them ?

 

probably won't knowing them....🤣😂🤣

[David McCaig]

26 minutes ago, Sooks said:

It reminds me of Mike Ashley and Sports Direct buying up all the bankrupt brands of the past 

Slazenger as Hibs kit maker next year...lol 

[Sooks]

Just now, David McCaig said:

Slazenger as Hibs kit maker next year...lol 

Head and Karimore with the winter leisurewear lines 

[Paris 84]

What I find astonishing is the totally blinkered view the Hibby’s have towards this deal. It seems to be universally welcomed and they all seem fully onboard in the belief that untold riches and Premier League standard players are about to arrive. Reading their fans forum a week or so back one likened the Rangers and Celtic’s budget for next season as ‘chump change’ FFS. 
 

My one question to anyone I’ve spoken to about this deal is, why if you were a business man (or a sports group with multiple clubs in your stable), would you prioritise the only club in that group that you don’t have a controlling interest in? 

No one has given me any kind of coherent, credible answer. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Sorry not read whole thread but someone with access should post this on sisterfister.

[meister]

While Hibs situation looks objectively hysterical on the face of it, the wider implications of this could be absolutely shite for loads of clubs.

 

Take it to extremes and it all goes a bit Rollerball and instead of cities you have conglomerates playing each other in Europe at various levels. Like @Daveandal said above, there is a ton of history that could all come a cropper across the sport if this carries on.

 

"Lining up for Amazon this season will be.........In the CL - Man City, in the Europa League - Sampdoria and in the Europa Conference - Heart of Midlothian........."

 

Hibs would obviously be part of the Wish.com stable.......

[the original dalry llama]

My H*bs supporting chums all reckon they're onto a winner.

 

Edited May 1 by the original dalry llama

[tian447]

41 minutes ago, the original dalry llama said:

My H*bs supporting chums all reckon they're onto a winner.

 

 

And in the 3 or 4 decades since they formed that opinion, have they ever shown signs of re-entering reality?

[Nookie Bear]

3 hours ago, Pap said:

 

Wait. What would happen if all 4 teams qualified for Europe?

 

[Bull's-eye]

No idea why the other clubs got involved with Foley but its clear as day why Hibs have. Short term money, nothing more, nothing less.

Sold shares to one "group" to make the "owners" feel more at ease with their late fathers ludicrous investment.

 

Hibs buying and selling on paper historically might look appealing to Foley, maybe thinks getting one "John McGinn" every now and again early doors on the cheap might be value for his investment. Apart from that, there is zero rationale to investing in the Tramp Nou whatsoever.

 

As for loaning them EPL players

[Batistuta87]

12 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

No idea why the other clubs got involved with Foley but its clear as day why Hibs have. Short term money, nothing more, nothing less.

Sold shares to one "group" to make the "owners" feel more at ease with their late fathers ludicrous investment.

 

Hibs buying and selling on paper historically might look appealing to Foley, maybe thinks getting one "John McGinn" every now and again early doors on the cheap might be value for his investment. Apart from that, there is zero rationale to investing in the Tramp Nou whatsoever.

 

As for loaning them EPL players

They've got one now and they will get more - but they're not going to be getting the likes of Solanke and Kerkez or even the likes of Jaidon Anthony and James Hill. Marcondes was a wee treat to keep the fans happy for selling all their shares. They won't get anyone as good as him again. It'll be Will Fish types who are so far away from making their first team that they don't mind papping them off to Hibs to get them out the way for a year. 

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

I see st johnstone owner selling out to a US lawyer who has an interest in Cambridge United 

 

 

[Gundermann]

I believe this is how it works.

 

[Chimp]

Still would love to see what would happen if Bournemouth were to be relegated to the Championship next season.

[Fraggle]

Was there not something on the BBC gossip page, stating that Foleys group were looking to bring in someone above the, already in place, Hibs DOF. Can pretty much guess what direction things will go in that case.

[Finlay James]

9 hours ago, meister said:

Surely club owners are aware to this kind of ownership and how it affects themselves in whatever pyramid they end up in ?

 

You'd like to think that having someone like Foley turn up saying they'll bung £6m at you (a pittance really) when you're not going to be the top of the pile, would ring some sort of bells and he'd be told to sling his hook no ?

 

I get that some owners are ruled by their heart (Cormack for example) but they are generally successful, fairly switched on people, who have experience in football and  how it works. The minimum an owner should allow when even letting one of these guys over the door is "Will we be top of the pyramid ?". If the answer is no then it's sayonara Billy Big Bucks.

 

Lorient, Strasbourg, Hibs and others in similar situations may get into Europe, but they must know it'll only be if the parent club don't, and even then if more than one of them does qualify, does it become a bun fight between them to see who gets in ?

The common denominator is clubs that are in financial trouble and are gobbled up by larger clubs for tax avoidance purposes.

 

Hibs, as an example, are in deep shit and have been rescued by a cash injection.  They are now the plaything of a multigroup structure and have sold their soul.  It’s cute though that their deluded fans think they are now going toe to toe with the old firm.  This couldn’t be further from the truth.

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

Was there not something on the BBC gossip page, stating that Foleys group were looking to bring in someone above the, already in place, Hibs DOF. Can pretty much guess what direction things will go in that case.

[Bongo 1874]

It can work.

 

The problem you have in most teams doing it,is the recruitment doesn't suit,any player are bought and loaned out to these feeder teams,without any extensive research or proper recruitment analysis to see if they will fit into the team, or even will they get on and mix with said players.

 

Teams like Brentford&Brighton experimented and found this out.

 

You can't just flood teams with all loans players, they have to fit into system and the basis of the team, needs to still have the basic principles of what the team stands for.

 

Call it ripping the heart of soul out the team.

 

An example of this is Hibs 2012 team,all the loan players didn't care,but to us it meant something.

 

Hibs&Aberdeen are badly run football clubs at the moment.

 

You can bring In loan players.

 

But you need guys that can relay the message to these players,what it means to play for the club and standards.

 

Something i see completely missing at Hibs & Aberdeen just now.

 

[Cameronstheman]

Can players say from Bournemouth who are offered a gig at Hibs, say ****, of i aint playing for that shit or do they have little choice ?? 

[sac]

Foleys cash is all going in to his fun Bournemouth project, if successful, the trickle down to the other clubs in his pyramid operation could be years away and all dependant on the one at the top being successful. Location, stadium capacity immediately limits them. 

[upgotheheads]

I haven

11 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

As from today, they'd all get in;

 

https://theathletic.com/5362029/2024/03/22/uefa-multi-club-rules-champions-europa-league/

 

 

 

For example, it is possible that one of Manchester United or Nice, both now under the control of Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his company INEOS, could play in the Champions League, while the other plays in the Europa League or Conference League.

The same would apply to City Football Group’s Manchester City and Girona, Red Bull’s Leipzig and Salzburg sides or Qatar Sports Investment’s Paris Saint-Germain and Braga."

 

 

I haven't been following this thread so I might be missing something obvious. What happens if Nice qualifies for the Champions League, but can't take their place because of MAN.U. Do they then drop into the Europa League at the expense of another team in that league, surely someone eventually misses out?

[Victorian]

I have one serious reservation about Hibs being in one of these multi team structures.  I mean... who the **** would want Hibs?  Batshit.

[hughesie27]

If Hibs don't spend big or get loaned some decent Bournemouth experiments this Summer the pitchforks will be out early doors.

 

 

[Gorgie_Rules]

I could be wrong as wasn’t following it fully at the time, but from a far it always seemed that the £6million ‘investment’ was being mudded a bit.

 

I believe this is what Foley paid to buy his share in the club (although there was a subsequent debt for equity swap which stiffed HSL?) rather than him actually putting £6 million in to spend on players/infrastructure. 
 

To be fair to the muppets, there was quite a bit of concern on .net at the time. 
 

Like everything in football these days, immediate short term results will dictate, start next season poorly and they’ll be in trouble.

[hughesie27]

8 hours ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

I could be wrong as wasn’t following it fully at the time, but from a far it always seemed that the £6million ‘investment’ was being mudded a bit.

 

I believe this is what Foley paid to buy his share in the club (although there was a subsequent debt for equity swap which stiffed HSL?) rather than him actually putting £6 million in to spend on players/infrastructure. 
 

To be fair to the muppets, there was quite a bit of concern on .net at the time. 
 

Like everything in football these days, immediate short term results will dictate, start next season poorly and they’ll be in trouble.

Even if the 6 Million is all going into the club a decent chunk is earmarked for developing an indoor pitch at EM and doing maintenece/minor upgrades at ER.

That won't leave a lot for transfer fees and wages.

 

They've been in charge of Lorient for a year and a half and looking at their transfer history since then they have sent their best prospect to Bournemouth and had 1 or 2 loans in the opposite direction.

 

On the verge of relegation.

And that's full ownership, not a measly 25% stake!

 

 

 

 

[Shooter McGavin]

One day you’re watching Ronaldinho play in the Champions League as if it were a school playground, the next you’re watching nation states fund clubs, VAR being a s*iteshow and richer clubs using and abusing lesser clubs for their own gain and interests.

 

A lot of the joy of football has totally gone for me.

[kingantti1874]

Hibs persued this deal because they NEEDED this deal.  
 

• Hibernian have announced a £3.9m loss for the year up to 30 June 2023, despite making a gain of £3.2m in transfer fees.

 

That loss would have been £7.1m without player sales, That is unsustainable, they have no european football this season, reduced prize money again on account of bottom 6 and getting lapped out the cup early, and they certainly not sold £3.2m worth of player this time around.  
 

They are living beyond their means simply to stay relevant, the have never been able to accept what they are and where they are and have sold their sole to the devil in an attempt to keep pace with hearts.
 

A one off £6m won’t even touch the sides.  

 

 

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

One day you’re watching Ronaldinho play in the Champions League as if it were a school playground, the next you’re watching nation states fund clubs, VAR being a s*iteshow and richer clubs using and abusing lesser clubs for their own gain and interests.

 

A lot of the joy of football has totally gone for me.

Inclined to agree with much of this . VAR I feel has to stay unfortunately imo , but that is more down to the shit standard of refereeing the amount of times we were ****ed over before it came in . The rest is absolutely spot on 

[Rods]

19 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Hibs persued this deal because they NEEDED this deal.  
 

 

• Hibernian have announced a £3.9m loss for the year up to 30 June 2023, despite making a gain of £3.2m in transfer fees.

 

That loss would have been £7.1m without player sales, That is unsustainable, they have no european football this season, reduced prize money again on account of bottom 6 and getting lapped out the cup early, and they certainly not sold £3.2m worth of player this time around.  
 

They are living beyond their means simply to stay relevant, the have never been able to accept what they are and where they are and have sold their sole to the devil in an attempt to keep pace with hearts.
 

A one off £6m won’t even touch the sides.  

 

 

Spot on

 

The laughing matter is Kensell came out and said(contrary to the SFA requirement) That more BK group money will now be spent on players.

 

Clearly not learned any lessons or is it they are secure in the knowledge they have land to recoup their money. 
 

They have a drawdown facility from the BK group. This being used will be an indicator of big problems.

 

The few hibs fans I have spoken to defo think the 6 mill is a next level investment. It’s simply not.

Edited May 2 by Rods