TEFL Courses

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Was looking at the TEFL courses online and it is quite appealing.

 

Has anyone ever sat the course?

 

Can this lead to a proper career abroad immediately?

 

Cheers.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd stay away from online courses tbh, because there is nothing to match actually teaching real people. You are better off with a CELTA or Trinity Qualification. They are more expensive to get but are accredited and have a global reputation, although the courses themselves do cost a fair bit, ie around ?800-1000.

[euan64]

I done the weekend course last July. It's quite easy and you can't really fail the classroom based part. However apparently most schools require a degree and the TEFL qualification is there just to show you can teach. There is another qualification called the CELTA which they teach at Stevenson I believe but it takes around a month to get it and costs around a ?1000. I'm wanting to get to Vietnam or somewhere for the beginning of next year as it definitely sounds a better lifestyle than working in a call centre here.

 

Good luck anyway.

[Johanes de Silentio]

I did an intro course in TOEFL at Queen Margaret Uni, but I haven't taken it any further.

 

Mate of mine is now teaching English in Japan now, mind, so it can be done.

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

I did an intro course in TOEFL at Queen Margaret Uni, but I haven't taken it any further.

 

Mate of mine is now teaching English in Japan now, mind, so it can be done.

 

Do you have a link to more information on the intro course etc?

 

Cheers.

[Auld Reekin']

Was looking at the TEFL courses online and it is quite appealing.

 

Has anyone ever sat the course?

 

Can this lead to a proper career abroad immediately?

 

Cheers.

 

I did a 3-day classroom-based TEFL course last month, which I found enjoyable and interesting. It was certainly a different way of learning from anything I'd done before.

 

I haven't yet followed it up with any of the online modules that the company offers, but will probably do so later this year. As previous posters have said, the CELTA courses are more prestigious and sought after by prospective employers, but they are also a lot more expensive and high-pressure. I'd say that if you're not sure whether it's a career path that you want to follow, but want to get some sort of exposure to what it's all about to help you decide, then a 3-day weekday, or a 2-day weekend classroom course is a good idea.

 

As long as you get fully involved with the classwork and put in the required effort, mix and communicate well with your fellow students and the tutor, and aren't afraid to make an erse of yourself in front of the class from time to time , you'll get a pass, as euan64 said. Our tutor reckoned that, even with just the 3-day certitficate under our belts, there were half-decent jobs currently on the go in China.

 

If you're earning less than ?22,000 p.a., you can get a ?200 subsidy from ILA Scotland towards any training you want to do, as long as it's with one of their preferred suppliers. PM me if you want details of the course and the company that ran it.

[Auld Reekin']

Do you have a link to more information on the intro course etc?

 

Cheers.

 

Tried to PM you, but couldn't for some reason... Anyway:

 

http://www.teflscotland.co.uk/

http://www.ilascotland.org.uk/ILA+Homepage.htm

[shaun.lawson]

I did a 3-day classroom-based TEFL course last month, which I found enjoyable and interesting. It was certainly a different way of learning from anything I'd done before.

 

I haven't yet followed it up with any of the online modules that the company offers, but will probably do so later this year. As previous posters have said, the CELTA courses are more prestigious and sought after by prospective employers, but they are also a lot more expensive and high-pressure. I'd say that if you're not sure whether it's a career path that you want to follow, but want to get some sort of exposure to what it's all about to help you decide, then a 3-day weekday, or a 2-day weekend classroom course is a good idea.

 

As long as you get fully involved with the classwork and put in the required effort, mix and communicate well with your fellow students and the tutor, and aren't afraid to make an erse of yourself in front of the class from time to time , you'll get a pass, as euan64 said. Our tutor reckoned that, even with just the 3-day certitficate under our belts, there were half-decent jobs currently on the go in China.

 

If you're earning less than ?22,000 p.a., you can get a ?200 subsidy from ILA Scotland towards any training you want to do, as long as it's with one of their preferred suppliers. PM me if you want details of the course and the company that ran it.

 

But what sort of jobs? Probably poorly paid in bad schools who treat the staff with zero regard, I'd have thought.

 

By all means take a weekend course to get a taster - but it's impossible to prepare yourself for a teaching job without doing a CELTA or Trinity College TESOL. I did a five week, full time TESOL in November and early December: it was lots of fun, boosted my confidence enormously, and while it's certainly lots of work, I wouldn't say it's hard work.

 

It all depends on what the OP is looking to get out of it; but a CELTA or Trinity TESOL is the way to go, I'd say.

[Auld Reekin']

But what sort of jobs? Probably poorly paid in bad schools who treat the staff with zero regard, I'd have thought.

 

By all means take a weekend course to get a taster - but it's impossible to prepare yourself for a teaching job without doing a CELTA or Trinity College TESOL. I did a five week, full time TESOL in November and early December: it was lots of fun, boosted my confidence enormously, and while it's certainly lots of work, I wouldn't say it's hard work.

 

It all depends on what the OP is looking to get out of it; but a CELTA or Trinity TESOL is the way to go, I'd say.

 

Not according to our tutor, who is an experienced TEFL and secondary-school teacher, and who has taught English for many years, at various levels and in several other countries. At the same time, and at various other points throughout the course, he warned us against exactly the types of jobs and schools that you mention above. As we had all, by that time, already paid our fees for the TEFL course, he had no reason not to be frank about this (unless the actual situation was that there were few, if any, jobs available to those with TEFL certificates alone, which I don't believe is the case right now, and that admitting this to us would be de-motivational), especially as he is a freelance tutor and therefore not an employee of the course provider. According to what he was saying, demand in China for English language tuition is very high just now and that, due to this high demand, those with TEFL certifications also had a good chance of reasonable jobs there.

 

That said, I think most people accept that a CELTA or Trinity TESOL qualification is more prestigious and "in-demand" than any level of TEFL certification, but "...impossible to prepare yourself for a teaching job without..." one of these? I'm not at all sure about that one...

 

Personally I wouldn't attempt to try and get a job at a language school with just a 30-hour TEFL course, but - apparently - it is possible to do so... Almost certainly, a better teaching job could be landed with CELTA / TESOL, but the TEFL route may suit those with more limited time and budgets (and, perhaps, expectations), especially as a "taster" of what to expect in this line of work.

[shaun.lawson]

Not according to our tutor, who is an experienced TEFL and secondary-school teacher, and who has taught English for many years, at various levels and in several other countries. At the same time, and at various other points throughout the course, he warned us against exactly the types of jobs and schools that you mention above. As we had all, by that time, already paid our fees for the TEFL course, he had no reason not to be frank about this (unless the actual situation was that there were few, if any, jobs available to those with TEFL certificates alone, which I don't believe is the case right now, and that admitting this to us would be de-motivational), especially as he is a freelance tutor and therefore not an employee of the course provider. According to what he was saying, demand in China for English language tuition is very high just now and that, due to this high demand, those with TEFL certifications also had a good chance of reasonable jobs there.

 

That said, I think most people accept that a CELTA or Trinity TESOL qualification is more prestigious and "in-demand" than any level of TEFL certification, but "...impossible to prepare yourself for a teaching job without..." one of these? I'm not at all sure about that one...

 

Personally I wouldn't attempt to try and get a job at a language school with just a 30-hour TEFL course, but - apparently - it is possible to do so... Almost certainly, a better teaching job could be landed with CELTA / TESOL, but the TEFL route may suit those with more limited time and budgets (and, perhaps, expectations), especially as a "taster" of what to expect in this line of work.

 

Interesting, thanks for this. When I said "impossible to prepare yourself", what I meant was: if someone's about to take a full time job teaching large classes of students (in China, we're talking class sizes of 40, even 50 sometimes), how on earth does one weekend equip them to do so? On my TESOL, we were all nervous to begin with; and we all needed the time offered by the course to reflect on our teaching styles, the students' learning styles, inevitable mistakes we made and so on.

 

Teaching's great fun, but it's also challenging, and requires plenty of preparation. Indeed, most of the work by the teacher is done when preparing beforehand really. I think there's a great danger that those who complete these weekend courses end up thrown in at the deep end in their first job, only to metaphorically drown. You're right though: there is a massive demand for English teachers in China and the Far East - but the better quality the training course, the greater the likelihood of you landing a good job in a decent location, and not finding it too overwhelming either.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I take it you don't need to know another language to work abroad then?

[Auld Reekin']

Interesting, thanks for this. When I said "impossible to prepare yourself", what I meant was: if someone's about to take a full time job teaching large classes of students (in China, we're talking class sizes of 40, even 50 sometimes), how on earth does one weekend equip them to do so? On my TESOL, we were all nervous to begin with; and we all needed the time offered by the course to reflect on our teaching styles, the students' learning styles, inevitable mistakes we made and so on.

 

Teaching's great fun, but it's also challenging, and requires plenty of preparation. Indeed, most of the work by the teacher is done when preparing beforehand really. I think there's a great danger that those who complete these weekend courses end up thrown in at the deep end in their first job, only to metaphorically drown. You're right though: there is a massive demand for English teachers in China and the Far East - but the better quality the training course, the greater the likelihood of you landing a good job in a decent location, and not finding it too overwhelming either.

 

I totally agree.

[shaun.lawson]

I take it you don't need to know another language to work abroad then?

 

Theoretically, you don't - but it can be ******* hard depending on where you go. How do you establish a rapport with a class if you can't converse with them in their first language, especially if they're struggling in learning a second one?

 

Part of the CELTA/TESOL course includes four classes in a completely different language: in our case, Hungarian. Throughout these classes, not one word of English was spoken by the teacher. The idea is to show what it's like for a class of students to be taught in a language they don't have the first clue about; believe me, it's very overwhelming, and I felt totally lost on many occasions.

 

Again though, it all goes back to whether you want a good job at a decent establishment. In South America, the main thing which makes language schools turn away job applicants is if they can't speak Spanish - which is why I need to improve before heading out there.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Theoretically, you don't - but it can be ******* hard depending on where you go. How do you establish a rapport with a class if you can't converse with them in their first language, especially if they're struggling in learning a second one?

 

Part of the CELTA/TESOL course includes four classes in a completely different language: in our case, Hungarian. Throughout these classes, not one word of English was spoken by the teacher. The idea is to show what it's like for a class of students to be taught in a language they don't have the first clue about; believe me, it's very overwhelming, and I felt totally lost on many occasions.

 

Again though, it all goes back to whether you want a good job at a decent establishment. In South America, the main thing which makes language schools turn away job applicants is if they can't speak Spanish - which is why I need to improve before heading out there.

 

Yeah, I want to do this in a couple of years but can't get my head around teaching people something if you can't speak their language.

[shaun.lawson]

Yeah, I want to do this in a couple of years but can't get my head around teaching people something if you can't speak their language.

 

Absolutely - and I suspect that there's only so far mentions of 'Forlan' and 'Suarez' will be able to take me. Of course though, in many parts of Europe, there's a much better chance that students will already have at least some grasp of English; it gets harder the further afield you head, basically.

[Auld Reekin']

Yeah, I want to do this in a couple of years but can't get my head around teaching people something if you can't speak their language.

 

This is covered early on in a good TEFL course. It's actually an (almost) invariable rule in TEFL that teachers do not use any of the "native" language, no matter how fluent they might be in it. The way you get around this seemingly massive barrier is by the extensive use of mime & gestures, pointing, visual aids, props, and games. Obviously, you start off with the simplest of words and situations: "Hello" / "Good Morning" / "Good Afternoon", reinforced with a handshake; "My name is..."; "What is your name?", etc..

 

You can then progress to things that are familiar to all countries and cultures, such as: time of day (using a clock); colours; foodstuffs; everyday objects (car, bus, cat, dog, etc.); family members, and things like this.

[Auld Reekin']

Theoretically, you don't - but it can be ******* hard depending on where you go. How do you establish a rapport with a class if you can't converse with them in their first language, especially if they're struggling in learning a second one?

 

Part of the CELTA/TESOL course includes four classes in a completely different language: in our case, Hungarian. Throughout these classes, not one word of English was spoken by the teacher. The idea is to show what it's like for a class of students to be taught in a language they don't have the first clue about; believe me, it's very overwhelming, and I felt totally lost on many occasions.

 

Again though, it all goes back to whether you want a good job at a decent establishment. In South America, the main thing which makes language schools turn away job applicants is if they can't speak Spanish - which is why I need to improve before heading out there.

 

Included in our 3-day course were very basic, introductory, classes in Basque and Japanese (which no-one else in the class knew, other than the students who spoke them), as well as those in German, Spanish and French.

 

Clearly, having as much knowledge as possible of the language of the country you are going to will be invaluable in helping you to assimilate and get the most out of the experience, but it should not be a pre-requiste of being able to teach English there.

[Patrick Bateman]

Whilst a working knowledge of the language of the country you're working in is helpful, it can actually be counterintuitive in terms of teaching. Basically, you don't want to use their language whilst teaching them, because you aren't being paid to be a dictionary/translator, but to help your students develop their language skills. The only way to get that is through practice in the taught language, rather than expecting them to work backwards.

[leginten]

I did some TEFL when I was much younger and would thoroughly recommend it as a way of spending time living in another country while earning some money. Once you establish yourself and have built up a decent stock of teaching materials, it can be better to work freelance than remain contracted to a language school, obviously depending on what access you have to companies or clients who would be willing to cut out the middleman. Both financially and in terms of deciding when and how much you want to work, it can be a good move.

 

And then there's the foreign bursd...

[Patrick Bateman]

On this subject; can anyone recommend countries to go to teach English? I'm CELTA trained and looking at doing it from September until summer 2012 as a part of a working gap year

[shaun.lawson]

Included in our 3-day course were very basic, introductory, classes in Basque and Japanese (which no-one else in the class knew, other than the students who spoke them), as well as those in German, Spanish and French.

 

Clearly, having as much knowledge as possible of the language of the country you are going to will be invaluable in helping you to assimilate and get the most out of the experience, but it should not be a pre-requiste of being able to teach English there.

 

Goodness - this three day course sounds impressive TBH!

 

Whilst a working knowledge of the language of the country you're working in is helpful, it can actually be counterintuitive in terms of teaching. Basically, you don't want to use their language whilst teaching them, because you aren't being paid to be a dictionary/translator, but to help your students develop their language skills. The only way to get that is through practice in the taught language, rather than expecting them to work backwards.

 

In some cases it can, yes. The Hungarian classes I mentioned? It was unbelievable how well the teacher was able to do in getting us to understand some fairly advanced stuff by the end. Classes three and four also featured games, quizzes and so on which were really effective. But the thing is, total immersion doesn't work for everyone: all students have different learning styles (kinaesthetic, auditory etc), and there's a danger of leaving students behind if you can't adapt to individual needs.

 

I did some TEFL when I was much younger and would thoroughly recommend it as a way of spending time living in another country while earning some money. Once you establish yourself and have built up a decent stock of teaching materials, it can be better to work freelance than remain contracted to a language school, obviously depending on what access you have to companies or clients who would be willing to cut out the middleman. Both financially and in terms of deciding when and how much you want to work, it can be a good move.

 

And then there's the foreign bursd...

 

I agree, and am freelancing already in the UK. Of course, many foreign language schools don't assist in helping staff work legally, which can be something of a problem. In Uruguay, if I can't get a work permit, there's a probability I'll need to extend a three month tourist visa for another three months (which is fairly routine by the sounds of it), then hop over the border to Argentina for a day before coming back.

 

On this subject; can anyone recommend countries to go to teach English? I'm CELTA trained and looking at doing it from September until summer 2012 as a part of a working gap year

 

Depends on where you want to go, and why you want to go there. Comfortably the best levels of pay (and inclusive, good quality accommodation) is offered in the Far East; in other parts of the world, you'll break even, but no more than that.

[leginten]

I agree, and am freelancing already in the UK. Of course, many foreign language schools don't assist in helping staff work legally, which can be something of a problem. In Uruguay, if I can't get a work permit, there's a probability I'll need to extend a three month tourist visa for another three months (which is fairly routine by the sounds of it), then hop over the border to Argentina for a day before coming back.

 

Tell me about it. I ended up as chairman of a fledgling Works Council, which eventually involved spending as much time in the employment courts fighting against the employer I was contracted to at the time as doing the job itself. One of the reasons I got out and started working for banks and other companies by myself.

 

All that time wading through legislation, having meetings and sitting in a bloody courtroom when I could have been sitting in a pub drinking beer.

 

[shaun.lawson]

Tell me about it. I ended up as chairman of a fledgling Works Council, which eventually involved spending as much time in the employment courts fighting against the employer I was contracted to at the time as doing the job itself. One of the reasons I got out and started working for banks and other companies by myself.

 

All that time wading through legislation, having meetings and sitting in a bloody courtroom when I could have been sitting in a pub drinking beer.

 

 

Jeezo. And that was presumably legislation in another language too? Surprises me that these problems clearly go back some time TBH. On the bright side, I'm also freelancing as an academic editor, which I can do remotely: just need access to the internet. And I assume that, the more qualified I am in Business English, the more that opens doors to jobs with other companies and so on?

[leginten]

Jeezo. And that was presumably legislation in another language too? Surprises me that these problems clearly go back some time TBH. On the bright side, I'm also freelancing as an academic editor, which I can do remotely: just need access to the internet. And I assume that, the more qualified I am in Business English, the more that opens doors to jobs with other companies and so on?

 

Yes, it was interesting. To be honest, the TEFL-teaching fraternity is so transient and fragmented in terms of work patterns that it's sometimes not hard to see the employers' point of view when they try to avoid granting full employment rights to people who are part-time and non-permanent. I was part of the management too where I was working, so my defection to the Works Council went down like a cup of cold sick.

 

Business English is a laugh as concepts go. Of course, there's really no such thing, but your clients' eyes light up like a pinball machine when you tell them that's your bag. The main problem bankers and businessmen face in my experience is not that they don't know the specialised vocabulary associated with their area - they've usually had to acquire that or risk being replaced - but that they simply can't speak the language very well. Many have a built-in resistance to lesson content that doesn't have "Business English" emblazoned on it, though, so at times you have to play along.

[scott_jambo]

Absolutely - and I suspect that there's only so far mentions of 'Forlan' and 'Suarez' will be able to take me. Of course though, in many parts of Europe, there's a much better chance that students will already have at least some grasp of English; it gets harder the further afield you head, basically.

 

 

Whilst a working knowledge of the language of the country you're working in is helpful, it can actually be counterintuitive in terms of teaching. Basically, you don't want to use their language whilst teaching them, because you aren't being paid to be a dictionary/translator, but to help your students develop their language skills. The only way to get that is through practice in the taught language, rather than expecting them to work backwards.

 

 

Shaun, take Odysseus's advice on board.

 

I am learning Spanish just now at Edinburgh Uni and the teacher speaks English about once a lesson at the most. Usually to explain really complicated bits of grammar if the class is not understanding the particular rule, but I think she gets annoyed with herself for using English because she feels it is a failure to get her points across in the language we are learning to speak.

 

I know you are doing Spanish too, my teacher gave us all a sheet and went through it on the first lesson with stuff like

 

como se dice "insert word" en ingles?

 

que significa?

 

No Entiendo.

 

etc... plus the usual: hola, que tal, adios, huesta luego etc...

 

I reckon you already know enough Spanish to teach effectively, probably best to focus on advanced teaching methods so that you can communicate effectively, rather than worrying too much about the native tongue.

 

Best thing to do is to take the plunge - time to stop studying and get yourself over there and start using the skills you have learnt to teach!

[shaun.lawson]

Yes, it was interesting. To be honest, the TEFL-teaching fraternity is so transient and fragmented in terms of work patterns that it's sometimes not hard to see the employers' point of view when they try to avoid granting full employment rights to people who are part-time and non-permanent. I was part of the management too where I was working, so my defection to the Works Council went down like a cup of cold sick.

 

Business English is a laugh as concepts go. Of course, there's really no such thing, but your clients' eyes light up like a pinball machine when you tell them that's your bag. The main problem bankers and businessmen face in my experience is not that they don't know the specialised vocabulary associated with their area - they've usually had to acquire that or risk being replaced - but that they simply can't speak the language very well. Many have a built-in resistance to lesson content that doesn't have "Business English" emblazoned on it, though, so at times you have to play along.

 

To be fair, my view of the business world for ages now has been that it's quite incredible how successful people can be when bullshitting and employing David Brent-style management speak. I can spot bullshit a mile off, and it amazes me when other people can't: seems like a valuable life skill!

 

And in turn, Business English is itself bullshit (or the art of bullshitting?) really, as you say - but the vast bulk of English taught to adults in South America is in the form of B.E., so I'm doing a quick course in it before heading out there. Meanwhile, on the language thing - it's amazing how people from a particular country always make the same grammatical mistakes. A German uses the present continuous when the present simple is required; a Spanish speaker often moves from past simple to present simple when discussing the same thing, and so on and so on. And they all struggle so much with auxiliary verbs and indefinite articles.

 

In short: it's a jungle out there.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun, take Odysseus's advice on board.

 

I am learning Spanish just now at Edinburgh Uni and the teacher speaks English about once a lesson at the most. Usually to explain really complicated bits of grammar if the class is not understanding the particular rule, but I think she gets annoyed with herself for using English because she feels it is a failure to get her points across in the language we are learning to speak.

 

I know you are doing Spanish too, my teacher gave us all a sheet and went through it on the first lesson with stuff like

 

como se dice "insert word" en ingles?

 

que significa?

 

No Entiendo.

 

etc... plus the usual: hola, que tal, adios, huesta luego etc...

 

I reckon you already know enough Spanish to teach effectively, probably best to focus on advanced teaching methods so that you can communicate effectively, rather than worrying too much about the native tongue.

 

Best thing to do is to take the plunge - time to stop studying and get yourself over there and start using the skills you have learnt to teach!

 

I will Scott, I will; just building up teaching experience and saving some money first! August is the target: South American schools generally have two intakes each year, in February and August. Can't wait until I'm finally out there!

[Gorgiewave]

My tuppenceworth. I did a weekend TEFL course in January 2007, followed by a further course at home with no deadline which involved submitting some written work. Total, 100 hours and a certificate, neither CELTA nor Trinity. I have been teaching English in Madrid since September 2007. My experience / advice would be (based only on my experience; I can't speak for other countries):

 

The commonest is that the teacher is a kind of travelling salesman or doctor doing his rounds, going from one business or other place of work for an hour or two, then moving to another, all day. So, it might be Telefonica, 8-10, Health Minstry 11.30.13, Housing Ministry 15-17, classes in the academy itself with private (i.e., non-insitutional) student, 19.00-21.00. FOR EXAMPLE. The second is block hours, which is more like a conventional job. This is what I am doing, working in a Spanish Army school, 8-14.30 every day. There are also residential and non-residential intensive course, usually lasting a week. There may be 6-20 of these per year in a given academy. It is also very common for people to supplement the foregoing with private classes, usually paid cash in hand under the table, though I am self-employed. Since most people are working during the day, this is usually in the evening, usually in the student's house and is much more likely than with academies to involve children. Students may be found by placing adverts on the interweb, in local newspapers, through word of mouth or through "stealing" them from academies.

 

Furthermore:

 

It is possible to work with no qualification, but a TEFL certificate if some kind gives you much more choice. I have never not been offered work due to my certificate not being CELTA / Trinity. It is also an advantage to have a university degree, in no subject in particular. I would not have got my job in the Army without both the TEFL certificate and my degree.

 

Speaking the language spoken in the country is not a requisite but it useful for three reasons: (1) it helps you to find work and live in the country (some academy owners and the receptionists don't speak English well or at all. (2) It helps you to understand students' mistakes. So, rather than you finding a certain mitake frsutrating or incomprehensible, you can directly explain the mistranslation that the students are making and tell them that when they think of a certain word or expression in their language, the correct translation is____________. Thirdly, part of the preparation for being a teacher abroad is knowing about the culture of that country. Not just stereotypes, famous footballers from that country or the front page of the news that day. What do we talk about on JKB? Not shortbroad, kilts and whisky (OK, not always, certainly less since Doug's demise), but politics, music, towns in Scotland, memories from the 1970s. Since that's what we know about and talk about, we can imagine that students will be similar (some of the time at least). People speak most about what they know about.

 

You should make sure you know your English grammar well, so I would advise you buy a book and study it. If you know a lot of specialist vocabulary (legal, scientific, especially business), then make sure you mention it at interviews and generally advertise it. If you don't, learn especially business vocabulary. 1 in 100 students will be interested in reading Shakespeare or Dickens and 30 in 100 will really loathe English, so be prepared for an uphill struggle in that regard.

 

I have found I have learned a lot more as a teacher from teaching, asking students for feedback about me, observing colleagues and remembering my own good teachers than I have from theoretical studies, but reading at least one book of theory would be useful. The situation mentioned above of miming to students who know zero English: yes, modulating your voice and learning to use gestures (and getting over the embarrassment of thinking you look like you're speaking to a child) is useful, but classes with people who know nothing at all are rare in my experience, being probably small children.

 

Anything more specific, ask away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gorgiewave]

I will Scott, I will; just building up teaching experience and saving some money first! August is the target: South American schools generally have two intakes each year, in February and August. Can't wait until I'm finally out there!

 

 

Plenty of summer camps in Spain before August.

[shaun.lawson]

My tuppenceworth. I did a weekend TEFL course in January 2007, followed by a further course at home with no deadline which involved submitting some written work. Total, 100 hours and a certificate, neither CELTA nor Trinity. I have been teaching English in Madrid since September 2007. My experience / advice would be (based only on my experience; I can't speak for other countries):

 

The commonest is that the teacher is a kind of travelling salesman or doctor doing his rounds, going from one business or other place of work for an hour or two, then moving to another, all day. So, it might be Telefonica, 8-10, Health Minstry 11.30.13, Housing Ministry 15-17, classes in the academy itself with private (i.e., non-insitutional) student, 19.00-21.00. FOR EXAMPLE. The second is block hours, which is more like a conventional job. This is what I am doing, working in a Spanish Army school, 8-14.30 every day. There are also residential and non-residential intensive course, usually lasting a week. There may be 6-20 of these per year in a given academy. It is also very common for people to supplement the foregoing with private classes, usually paid cash in hand under the table, though I am self-employed. Since most people are working during the day, this is usually in the evening, usually in the student's house and is much more likely than with academies to involve children. Students may be found by placing adverts on the interweb, in local newspapers, through word of mouth or through "stealing" them from academies.

 

Furthermore:

 

It is possible to work with no qualification, but a TEFL certificate if some kind gives you much more choice. I have never not been offered work due to my certificate not being CELTA / Trinity. It is also an advantage to have a university degree, in no subject in particular. I would not have got my job in the Army without both the TEFL certificate and my degree.

 

Speaking the language spoken in the country is not a requisite but it useful for three reasons: (1) it helps you to find work and live in the country (some academy owners and the receptionists don't speak English well or at all. (2) It helps you to understand students' mistakes. So, rather than you finding a certain mitake frsutrating or incomprehensible, you can directly explain the mistranslation that the students are making and tell them that when they think of a certain word or expression in their language, the correct translation is____________. Thirdly, part of the preparation for being a teacher abroad is knowing about the culture of that country. Not just stereotypes, famous footballers from that country or the front page of the news that day. What do we talk about on JKB? Not shortbroad, kilts and whisky (OK, not always, certainly less since Doug's demise), but politics, music, towns in Scotland, memories from the 1970s. Since that's what we know about and talk about, we can imagine that students will be similar (some of the time at least). People speak most about what they know about.

 

You should make sure you know your English grammar well, so I would advise you buy a book and study it. If you know a lot of specialist vocabulary (legal, scientific, especially business), then make sure you mention it at interviews and generally advertise it. If you don't, learn especially business vocabulary. 1 in 100 students will be interested in reading Shakespeare or Dickens and 30 in 100 will really loathe English, so be prepared for an uphill struggle in that regard.

 

I have found I have learned a lot more as a teacher from teaching, asking students for feedback about me, observing colleagues and remembering my own good teachers than I have from theoretical studies, but reading at least one book of theory would be useful. The situation mentioned above of miming to students who know zero English: yes, modulating your voice and learning to use gestures (and getting over the embarrassment of thinking you look like you're speaking to a child) is useful, but classes with people who know nothing at all are rare in my experience, being probably small children.

 

Anything more specific, ask away.

 

That's fantastic advice, GW - much appreciated, mate. The section I've emboldened is, I think, crucial. On grammar: we had a language awareness test during the TESOL which scared pretty much everyone. I was confused as heck at first - but with a bit of revision, it does come very quickly, and isn't that complicated really.

[Gorgiewave]

That's fantastic advice, GW - much appreciated, mate. The section I've emboldened is, I think, crucial. On grammar: we had a language awareness test during the TESOL which scared pretty much everyone. I was confused as heck at first - but with a bit of revision, it does come very quickly, and isn't that complicated really.

 

 

Can you reel off the four conditionals, with three variations of the third? Can you state three uses of the present perfect? Could you say in what ways the functions of the Spanish (Latin America/Galicia // Madrid) and English (UK / USA) present perfect are the same and in which ways different? Adverbs and their positions with perfect tenses?

 

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about - if you can do that, you'll avoid embarrassing moments and may well make a good name for yourself.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I will Scott, I will; just building up teaching experience and saving some money first! August is the target: South American schools generally have two intakes each year, in February and August. Can't wait until I'm finally out there!

 

What sort of teaching are you doing at the moment?

[shaun.lawson]

Can you reel off the four conditionals, with three variations of the third? Can you state three uses of the present perfect? Could you say in what ways the functions of the Spanish (Latin America/Galicia // Madrid) and English (UK / USA) present perfect are the same and in which ways different? Adverbs and their positions with perfect tenses?

 

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about - if you can do that, you'll avoid embarrassing moments and may well make a good name for yourself.

 

On all of these, not yet I can't! But practice (with a 'c', not an 's'), makes perfect.

 

What sort of teaching are you doing at the moment?

 

Currently teaching English to Indian, Pakistani and Iranian students at a nearby language school. It's good fun! We should be broadening out into teaching academic writing skills pretty soon too.

 

The only downside? Unlike at the school where I trained, there's no sign of any hot eastern European au pairs.

[Auld Reekin']

My tuppenceworth. I did a weekend TEFL course in January 2007, followed by a further course at home with no deadline which involved submitting some written work. Total, 100 hours and a certificate, neither CELTA nor Trinity. I have been teaching English in Madrid since September 2007. My experience / advice would be (based only on my experience; I can't speak for other countries):

 

The commonest is that the teacher is a kind of travelling salesman or doctor doing his rounds, going from one business or other place of work for an hour or two, then moving to another, all day. So, it might be Telefonica, 8-10, Health Minstry 11.30.13, Housing Ministry 15-17, classes in the academy itself with private (i.e., non-insitutional) student, 19.00-21.00. FOR EXAMPLE. The second is block hours, which is more like a conventional job. This is what I am doing, working in a Spanish Army school, 8-14.30 every day. There are also residential and non-residential intensive course, usually lasting a week. There may be 6-20 of these per year in a given academy. It is also very common for people to supplement the foregoing with private classes, usually paid cash in hand under the table, though I am self-employed. Since most people are working during the day, this is usually in the evening, usually in the student's house and is much more likely than with academies to involve children. Students may be found by placing adverts on the interweb, in local newspapers, through word of mouth or through "stealing" them from academies.

 

Furthermore:

 

It is possible to work with no qualification, but a TEFL certificate if some kind gives you much more choice. I have never not been offered work due to my certificate not being CELTA / Trinity. It is also an advantage to have a university degree, in no subject in particular. I would not have got my job in the Army without both the TEFL certificate and my degree.

 

Speaking the language spoken in the country is not a requisite but it useful for three reasons: (1) it helps you to find work and live in the country (some academy owners and the receptionists don't speak English well or at all. (2) It helps you to understand students' mistakes. So, rather than you finding a certain mitake frsutrating or incomprehensible, you can directly explain the mistranslation that the students are making and tell them that when they think of a certain word or expression in their language, the correct translation is____________. Thirdly, part of the preparation for being a teacher abroad is knowing about the culture of that country. Not just stereotypes, famous footballers from that country or the front page of the news that day. What do we talk about on JKB? Not shortbroad, kilts and whisky (OK, not always, certainly less since Doug's demise), but politics, music, towns in Scotland, memories from the 1970s. Since that's what we know about and talk about, we can imagine that students will be similar (some of the time at least). People speak most about what they know about.

 

You should make sure you know your English grammar well, so I would advise you buy a book and study it. If you know a lot of specialist vocabulary (legal, scientific, especially business), then make sure you mention it at interviews and generally advertise it. If you don't, learn especially business vocabulary. 1 in 100 students will be interested in reading Shakespeare or Dickens and 30 in 100 will really loathe English, so be prepared for an uphill struggle in that regard.

 

I have found I have learned a lot more as a teacher from teaching, asking students for feedback about me, observing colleagues and remembering my own good teachers than I have from theoretical studies, but reading at least one book of theory would be useful. The situation mentioned above of miming to students who know zero English: yes, modulating your voice and learning to use gestures (and getting over the embarrassment of thinking you look like you're speaking to a child) is useful, but classes with people who know nothing at all are rare in my experience, being probably small children.

 

Anything more specific, ask away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Off on a slight tangent, but do you know much about Vaughan Group / Vaughan Systems and - if so - what is your opinion on them and their teaching methods? From what I understand, they have quite a significant presence in Spain, with their TV channel and radio broadcasts, and are quite well thought of by some companies and students of English across there. They seem to be recruiting at the moment.

 

The other side of that coin is that I've heard some really negative reports about them, not the least of which was from our TEFL tutor. I won't repeat here what his views on them were but, suffice to say, they were not in any way favourable (horses, lassos, and ten-gallon hats were mentioned... ). One reason for this, of course, could be that Vaughan Group seem quite dismissive of the techniques and approaches of TEFL.

[Gorgiewave]

Off on a slight tangent, but do you know much about Vaughan Group / Vaughan Systems and - if so - what is your opinion on them and their teaching methods? From what I understand, they have quite a significant presence in Spain, with their TV channel and radio broadcasts, and are quite well thought of by some companies and students of English across there. They seem to be recruiting at the moment.

 

The other side of that coin is that I've heard some really negative reports about them, not the least of which was from our TEFL tutor. I won't repeat here what his views on them were but, suffice to say, they were not in any way favourable (horses, lassos, and ten-gallon hats were mentioned... ). One reason for this, of course, could be that Vaughan Group seem quite dismissive of the techniques and approaches of TEFL.

 

My experience of them has been watching their TV station, reading some books and sheets that came free with the newspaper for a while and I also had an interview with them once. I don't like them, especially Richard Vaughan, the main man. He is a Texan (that'll explain the references your tutor made). On TV, he comes across as extremely arrogant, talking to the student as if they were imebeciles, thinking he's funny when he's not. He also has really annoying hand gestures and a repitilian face that gives me the boak. The much-mentioned "method" consists of repeating a phrase a million times until it supposedly sticks. Typical exchange:

 

RICHARD VAUGHAN: Ask me how old I am.

ATTRACTIVE FEMALE STUDENT: How old are you?

RICHARD VAUGHAN (grinning at the camera): How old do you think I am?

[Auld Reekin']

My experience of them has been watching their TV station, reading some books and sheets that came free with the newspaper for a while and I also had an interview with them once. I don't like them, especially Richard Vaughan, the main man. He is a Texan (that'll explain the references your tutor made). On TV, he comes across as extremely arrogant, talking to the student as if they were imebeciles, thinking he's funny when he's not. He also has really annoying hand gestures and a repitilian face that gives me the boak. The much-mentioned "method" consists of repeating a phrase a million times until it supposedly sticks. Typical exchange:

 

RICHARD VAUGHAN: Ask me how old I am.

ATTRACTIVE FEMALE STUDENT: How old are you?

RICHARD VAUGHAN (grinning at the camera): How old do you think I am?

 

Cheers for that!

 

He sounds like a helluva guy...

[Gorgiewave]

Cheers for that!

 

He sounds like a helluva guy...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udcHhbL4zWQ

 

This'll give you an idea. I went for the interview and tone was "you must be desperate to work for us." Some people have told me that they don't remember the teachers' names. Basically, I have no time for them.

[Auld Reekin']

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udcHhbL4zWQ

 

This'll give you an idea. I went for the interview and tone was "you must be desperate to work for us." Some people have told me that they don't remember the teachers' names. Basically, I have no time for them.

 

There are two ways to take that statement! Thanks for that - I'll watch it with interest.

 

At the risk of moving things off topic further, and also taking-up too much of your time, is there any (legal) alternative to having to pay the full amount of Spanish Seguridad Social if you have Aut?nomo (self-employed) status there? From what I understand, this is around 220 euros per month regardless of whether you have earned a cent, rather than being based on actual earnings. You need to pay this if you are living and working in Spain and wish to be covered for health care, right?

 

I'd very much like to move across to Spain to live and work, but it'd be likely to be on a self-employed basis, and if this level of monthly payment is unavoidable no matter whether you've earned anything or not it could prove a show-stopper.

 

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

[Gorgiewave]

There are two ways to take that statement! Thanks for that - I'll watch it with interest.

 

At the risk of moving things off topic further, and also taking-up too much of your time, is there any (legal) alternative to having to pay the full amount of Spanish Seguridad Social if you have Aut?nomo (self-employed) status there? From what I understand, this is around 220 euros per month regardless of whether you have earned a cent, rather than being based on actual earnings. You need to pay this if you are living and working in Spain and wish to be covered for health care, right?

 

I'd very much like to move across to Spain to live and work, but it'd be likely to be on a self-employed basis, and if this level of monthly payment is unavoidable no matter whether you've earned anything or not it could prove a show-stopper.

 

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

 

Aut?nomos choose a percentage of a base figure. The base figure is about 840? and the lowest percentage is 26.5%, which leaves you with almost no benefits. I pay about 29.5% which gives me some unemployment cover and sick pay (I think). The alternative would be to take contracts for work until your earnings make it worth your while to become an aut?nomo. For example, on a typical contract with an academy, you might earn 1,200? a month and pay 150? in social security. If you want to talk more, PM me and I'll pass you my phone number.

[Auld Reekin']

Aut?nomos choose a percentage of a base figure. The base figure is about 840? and the lowest percentage is 26.5%, which leaves you with almost no benefits. I pay about 29.5% which gives me some unemployment cover and sick pay (I think). The alternative would be to take contracts for work until your earnings make it worth your while to become an aut?nomo. For example, on a typical contract with an academy, you might earn 1,200? a month and pay 150? in social security. If you want to talk more, PM me and I'll pass you my phone number.

 

Thanks very much - I'll do that. I really appreciate this, as I've been having quite a few problems getting to bottom of this issue, even with the help of family and friends living in Spain!

 

I'll owe you a few cervezas.