The Merse Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hangeland is a decent shout actually, the player I was going to suggest was Gary Cahill though. Even a Phil Jagielka type would be ideal for Arsenal, someone who will organise and sweat blood for the cause. Vermaelen is excellent, but they do seem to lack that tough spine. I'm not even sure Vermaelen is that good TBH. He burst onto the scene when he first arrived but by the end of the season was looking pretty dodgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm not even sure Vermaelen is that good TBH. He burst onto the scene when he first arrived but by the end of the season was looking pretty dodgy. I think he's very good, but you're right that he can look dodgy - I'd say that's due to the chumps that often play alongside him. He'd be class with a no nonsense Terry type next to him I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brow Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hangeland is a decent shout actually, the player I was going to suggest was Gary Cahill though. Even a Phil Jagielka type would be ideal for Arsenal, someone who will organise and sweat blood for the cause. Vermaelen is excellent, but they do seem to lack that tough spine. Id also suggest He's ******* excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Top shout that. He actually showed Wenger exactly what he's missing during that cup final, especially when he bombed back to tackle Bendtner (?) while injured - just a quality attitude. Aye these guys would probably cost a fair whack, but surely one of them could be bought for ?8-?10m? Then you've got the guy you can build your defence around for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm not even sure Vermaelen is that good TBH. He burst onto the scene when he first arrived but by the end of the season was looking pretty dodgy. I disagree, I think he's one of their best players. Suffered from not playing regularly. If he's stays injury free he's one of the best in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Let's be serious, anyone who thinks Arsenal would have beaten Barcelona even with 11 men is having a laugh. They didn't have one shot on target the entire game. You're description of Arsenal is not too unlike a certain scummy team who play in green in a flashy new breen bus shelter that they've had to keep the books balanced and seel their best players to finance. You're correct in saying he brings in relatively unknown players, but very few of his current crop have ever won anything. And I would argue that most of them, Nasri, Walcott, Vermaelen etc. have yet to actually flourish at the highest level - how can they have if Arsenal haven't won anything? And has been said, picking a 'keeper and defenders isn't as difficult as has been made out. It's Wenger's refusal to either spend money on either proven players from the Premiership or dominant centre halves. Gordon, Friedel, Schwarzer, Jaaskelainen could all have done a job between the sticks, and someone like Hangelaand would have solved a lot of their problems and centre half without costing a fortune. Wenger is Arsenal, but if he wants them to be successful again he needs to accept his philosophy isn't working and do something about it before it's too late. Comparing Hibs and Arsenal? What I was saying was that he is great at getting rid of players just before they go into decline and then gets top money for them. That is pretty much the opposite of the Hibs approach which appears to to be sell them for buttons just before they peak. I was also saying that he has managed to bring a lot of world class talent to Arsenal. A pickled hippo pretending to be George Best aside, this has not happened at Hibs. Nasri, Walcott, Vermaelen etc have been in the top four in the EPL virtually every year they have been at the club, likewise they play in the knock out stages of the Champions league every year. That is top level football. Wenger should have signed a goalie and a centre half in January. He seemed close to doing so and was linked with a number of players, Schwarzer, Mexes and Cahill amongst them. Who knows why these deals did not happen? there are many factors that can influence a transfer. I completely agree that there are a fair few defenders out there that would strengthen Arsenal. Haangeland appears to have been a target in the past and many of the other names on the thread would be able to do a job for them. Does failure to sign them yet mean that Wenger should be sacked? I don't think so. He signed three centre halves in two seasons. He's been very unlucky with injuries. The goalkeeper issue seems a bit harder. If Craig had been at Arsenal his recent errors would have been much bigger news. Wenger seems to have been keen on Schwarzer in the past but for whatever reason the transfer didn't happen. Jaaskelainen has been a quality keeper for years but know one has been able to get him away from Bolton. Surely other managers have noticed how good he is and tried to get him? Maybe he doesn't want to leave. I've never heard him being linked with a move away. Friedel, whilst a good keeper, would only postpone the issue for a couple of seasons at this time in his career (although that might have been enough to win them the league cup). I would have thought that Shay Given would have been worth a punt, but maybe City are not prepared to sell direct to a rival (Wenger should speak to Rangers for advice on how to get round this). Ferguson has been looking around Europe for a new Keeper for a few years. No top side is going to sell a top class goalie, so the targets are the likes of Lloris, Frei, Neuer, Stecklenberg and maybe Reina if Liverpool cannot convince him to stay. There are quite a few people looking to sign these guys so, like I was saying, signing a top class goalie is not all that easy at the moment. I'm not saying that Wenger does not have his faults. He clearly does not like signing older players and he suffers from temporary blindness when his team commits fouls. He may also not put enough emphasis on the physical and mental sides of the game these days (although this has not always been the case - Gilberto/Viera/Campbell etc) but do these faults mean that he should be sacked from the club that he has moulded so successfully? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Comparing Hibs and Arsenal? What I was saying was that he is great at getting rid of players just before they go into decline and then gets top money for them. That is pretty much the opposite of the Hibs approach which appears to to be sell them for buttons just before they peak. I was also saying that he has managed to bring a lot of world class talent to Arsenal. A pickled hippo pretending to be George Best aside, this has not happened at Hibs. Nasri, Walcott, Vermaelen etc have been in the top four in the EPL virtually every year they have been at the club, likewise they play in the knock out stages of the Champions league every year. That is top level football. Wenger should have signed a goalie and a centre half in January. He seemed close to doing so and was linked with a number of players, Schwarzer, Mexes and Cahill amongst them. Who knows why these deals did not happen? there are many factors that can influence a transfer. I completely agree that there are a fair few defenders out there that would strengthen Arsenal. Haangeland appears to have been a target in the past and many of the other names on the thread would be able to do a job for them. Does failure to sign them yet mean that Wenger should be sacked? I don't think so. He signed three centre halves in two seasons. He's been very unlucky with injuries. The goalkeeper issue seems a bit harder. If Craig had been at Arsenal his recent errors would have been much bigger news. Wenger seems to have been keen on Schwarzer in the past but for whatever reason the transfer didn't happen. Jaaskelainen has been a quality keeper for years but know one has been able to get him away from Bolton. Surely other managers have noticed how good he is and tried to get him? Maybe he doesn't want to leave. I've never heard him being linked with a move away. Friedel, whilst a good keeper, would only postpone the issue for a couple of seasons at this time in his career (although that might have been enough to win them the league cup). I would have thought that Shay Given would have been worth a punt, but maybe City are not prepared to sell direct to a rival (Wenger should speak to Rangers for advice on how to get round this). Ferguson has been looking around Europe for a new Keeper for a few years. No top side is going to sell a top class goalie, so the targets are the likes of Lloris, Frei, Neuer, Stecklenberg and maybe Reina if Liverpool cannot convince him to stay. There are quite a few people looking to sign these guys so, like I was saying, signing a top class goalie is not all that easy at the moment. I'm not saying that Wenger does not have his faults. He clearly does not like signing older players and he suffers from temporary blindness when his team commits fouls. He may also not put enough emphasis on the physical and mental sides of the game these days (although this has not always been the case - Gilberto/Viera/Campbell etc) but do these faults mean that he should be sacked from the club that he has moulded so successfully? No. Obviously I wasn't being serious with the comparisons. But there are some similarities, and the stadium and selling of players is one of them. The players he has signed have not, in my opinion, been world class. I look at Arsenal and think you would be struggling to include more than one of their players in a Premiership select. And even one wouldn't be guaranteed. I would probably have one of either Nasri or Fabregas, however Nasri has only really shined this season. He was fairly average the last couple of seasons. In terms of selling players for top dollar, other than Henry I can't really think of any. Vieira and Pires are both still playing. Yes Brad Friedel now would only be a short term solution. But the problems Arsenal face aren't new. They are the same problems they've had since Campbell, Vieira, Pires, Henry etc. left. And they needed a 'keeper even before then. Of course Wenger shouldn't be sacked for not signing physical players. However, he should be sacked for not securing one piece of silverware in nearly 7 years. That is unacceptable for a club like Arsenal. And it is directly linked to his failure to secure a solid keeper and at least one dominant centre half and one dominant centre midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Obviously I wasn't being serious with the comparisons. But there are some similarities, and the stadium and selling of players is one of them. The players he has signed have not, in my opinion, been world class. I look at Arsenal and think you would be struggling to include more than one of their players in a Premiership select. And even one wouldn't be guaranteed. I would probably have one of either Nasri or Fabregas, however Nasri has only really shined this season. He was fairly average the last couple of seasons. In terms of selling players for top dollar, other than Henry I can't really think of any. Vieira and Pires are both still playing. Yes Brad Friedel now would only be a short term solution. But the problems Arsenal face aren't new. They are the same problems they've had since Campbell, Vieira, Pires, Henry etc. left. And they needed a 'keeper even before then. Of course Wenger shouldn't be sacked for not signing physical players. However, he should be sacked for not securing one piece of silverware in nearly 7 years. That is unacceptable for a club like Arsenal. And it is directly linked to his failure to secure a solid keeper and at least one dominant centre half and one dominant centre midfielder. So bottom line, you think Wenger should be sacked. Who would you get in to replace him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgie. Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Poor transfer policy. Using tactics which have failed him time and time again. Very questionable team line-ups on a regular basis. If they fall away in the title race then his time should be up IMO. I agree that his tactics have been poor recently but not with your comment heshouldbe sacked. Hisbiggest mistake of late has been not playing Nasri in theFabregas role while Cesc has been injured. Earlier in the season Nasri was on fire playing through the middle but is being played out on the wing now, with the likes of Diaby and Denilson playing ahead of him. Big mistake from Wenger. As fof Hleb and Flamini, both have seen their careers flounder after leaving Arsenal, just like many before them. (Overmars, Petit, Vieira, Ljungberg, Henry) one problem Wenger doesn't have is offloading players at the right time. He MUST buy a couple of experienced internationals in the summer to help strenthen the squad until the likes of Ramsay, Wilshere, Walcott and Gibbs get more first team experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAberdeen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 It depends on which side of football you are looking at. From title wise, Arsenal has not win single title last 6 years. So Yes he should be sacked. But club wise, they are one of only two clubs which haven't failed to finish top 4, ie, CL place for last 10 years despite losing key players almost every seasons. Also nobody will dispute the fact that they are the most entertaining side to watch in the league. And those are built on without making significant financial loss, even UEFA has praised as the role model under financial fair play. Some of his transfer dealings have been questionable, but his hands are restricted by the club's wage structure/budget which is out of his control and, like us, their physio's ability seems in doubt. So No, nobody would have handled better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgie. Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 In terms of selling players for top dollar, other than Henry I can't really think of any. Vieira and Pires are both still playing. Hleb ?12m Adebayor ?25m Overmars ?15 Petit ?10m Vieira ?14m Anelka ?23m (24.5m profit) Merson ?5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAberdeen Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hleb ?12m Adebayor ?25m Overmars ?15 Petit ?10m Vieira ?14m Anelka ?23m (24.5m profit) Merson ?5m Kolo Tour? for ?16 million too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hleb ?12m Adebayor ?25m Overmars ?15 Petit ?10m Vieira ?14m Anelka ?23m (24.5m profit) Merson ?5m Full trophy cabinet priceless. Oh wait. Nice balance sheet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Some of his transfer dealings have been questionable See, if it was just that he had bought some duds, that would be fine - it happens to everyone - Fergie's gone through a bunch of players who didn't work out for whatever reason. The problem is that there is a systematic failure in Arsenal's player recruitment - that they will not sign defenders and midfielders who can dominate the opposition physically, and prevent Arsenal from basically being bullied out the game. If all of us, and half the managers of lower EPL clubs like Stoke can spot it, and it's written about regularly in the press, then the failure to do anything much about it is verging on gross negligence on Wenger's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hleb ?12m Adebayor ?25m Overmars ?15 Petit ?10m Vieira ?14m Anelka ?23m (24.5m profit) Merson ?5m And when Cashley Cole buggered off to Chelski, Arsenal got Gallas for free in return. Top deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 In 2004 David Dein joked that "Roman Abramovich has parked his Russian tanks on our lawn and is firing pounds 50 notes at us." Since then Arsenal have build a big shiny new stadium and been caught out by the collapse in the property market which means the new flats at Highbury aren't going to cover as much of the costs of the new ground as was hoped and, to make matters worse they're now they're being attacked on the other Flank by Sheik Mansour. Keeping Arsenal competitive on a budget that has allowed the stadium debt to be paid down to something manageable has been quite an achievement and it may pay off soon. Those in charge at the emirates have taken their foot right off the financial throttle in recent years and as well as selling a lot of big name players they're running a wage bill which for a club of their income is pretty meagre. While they're unlikely to become massively spendthrift the throttle may well be eased open a bit now that the Emirates is largely paid for.thanks to the extra income Arsenal are now in a position to compete financially with the kind of money that the Billionaire subsidised smaller clubs Arsenal make more from match day income than anyone else in England (and hence presumably the world) because Arsene Wenger sticks out teams that huge numbers of affluent Londoners will pay big ticket prices to go and see and he does this with less resources than his peers. As long as this is the case it would be crazy for Arsenal to consider getting rid of him. In fact it would make more sense for Wenger to get tired of Arsenal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The number of balance sheet related posts, due to a lack of footballing success, coupled with much talk of flair reminds me of some other club. There does come a point when you have to ask how many more years of winning **** all Wenger should get, especially when the main reason for it is that he is too stubborn to buy or bring through the sorts of players that he needs to win the league that Arsenal actually play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'd like to see the last 5 players Wenger bought who didn't have a French connection some where. Kyle Ebecillo Ryo Miyaichi Thomas Vermaelen Sol Campbell Samuel Galindo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hleb ?12m Adebayor ?25m Overmars ?15 Petit ?10m Vieira ?14m Anelka ?23m (24.5m profit) Merson ?5m Kolo Tour? for ?16 million too. Hleb I will give you, and Merson. Although no one could have predicted that Hleb would flop at Barce. He was playing well at Arsenal when he was sold. The rest went on to enjoy long, careers after Arsenal. And I might be wrong on this, but I think all barring Hleb, Merson and Adebayor have won more trophies since leaving Arsenal, that they would have won if they stayed. And when Cashley Cole buggered off to Chelski, Arsenal got Gallas for free in return. Top deal. Cole has won 3 league titles with Chelsea in this time. Arsenal and Gallas have won nothing. Top deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The number of balance sheet related posts, due to a lack of footballing success, coupled with much talk of flair reminds me of some other club. There does come a point when you have to ask how many more years of winning **** all Wenger should get, especially when the main reason for it is that he is too stubborn to buy or bring through the sorts of players that he needs to win the league that Arsenal actually play in. Because we are actually competing at the highest level ! We have being in with a shout till the last 3 weeks of almost every epl since wenger has being there ! The budget and wages difference between man city and cheski is like the old firm and hearts ! So why are we entitled to win silverware every year ? You honestly believe arsenal fans would be over the moon if we won the carling cup ? we don't give a feck ! the same way we don't care about the uefa cup ! That is why we play the kids, and we still get to the semis of that cup regularly, we have being a bit unlucky in cups and to have played the best team in the world 2 years in a row ! I like it how many people seem to talk for arsenal fans and want they want and demand ! We want to win the league, playing the best football, and compete with man utd and cheaski which is what the great man has done ! He has not build a team, he has created a giant football club, when he goes it will be a sad day in the history of arsenal football club ! Without a doubt the best manager in the world ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Because we are actually competing at the highest level ! We have being in with a shout till the last 3 weeks of almost every epl since wenger has being there ! The budget and wages difference between man city and cheski is like the old firm and hearts ! So why are we entitled to win silverware every year ? You honestly believe arsenal fans would be over the moon if we won the carling cup ? we don't give a feck ! the same way we don't care about the uefa cup ! That is why we play the kids, and we still get to the semis of that cup regularly, we have being a bit unlucky in cups and to have played the best team in the world 2 years in a row ! I like it how many people seem to talk for arsenal fans and want they want and demand ! We want to win the league, playing the best football, and compete with man utd and cheaski which is what the great man has done ! He has not build a team, he has created a giant football club, when he goes it will be a sad day in the history of arsenal football club ! Without a doubt the best manager in the world ! Pure delusion. Arsenal's wage bill in the most recent figures I could find is about 80% of Man Utd's and about 70% of Chelsea's. Hearts wage bill is about 20% of Celtic or Rangers. You don't win trophies because Wenger is either too stubborn to admit that he needs to do things differently to win, or not a good enough manager to change things. I don't really care what Arsenal fans think about Wenger, but to call him the best manager in the world is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Reports on the Beeb say Lehmann is in talks to help solve the Arsenal goalkeeping crisis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Johnson Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Give him one more season then Owen Coyle to take over for me. Think Coyle's style of management would suit Arsenal perfectly, and he's bound to have a good relationship with the club for the benefit he did to Jack Wilshere's career last season. Bring Coyle in, get him to bring Gary Cahill and Lee Chung-Yong with him and Arsenal could really be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Kyle Ebecillo Ryo Miyaichi Thomas Vermaelen Sol Campbell Samuel Galindo One decent player, 3 youth players that don't really count and one who played for the club already. Proving my point really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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