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Rubennumber1

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Does anyone know why we have had two midweek games against the old firm and neither of them appear to being broadcast on espn or sky?

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oh ah grantona

Rangers game is a reschedule so was never on tv plus tv deals are made to show the old firm away only games at home for them are the old firm games plus last day off season

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This might be a really daft question and it's probably something that has been discussed on here to the death but would it be safe to assume that their home games aren't ever shown in order to protect their ticket sales?

 

I guess they can get away with external sponsorship deals that don't involve pitch/stadium advertising then....

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Hearts Heritage

This might be a really daft question and it's probably something that has been discussed on here to the death but would it be safe to assume that their home games aren't ever shown in order to protect their ticket sales?

 

I guess they can get away with external sponsorship deals that don't involve pitch/stadium advertising then....

 

Correct. They do show some post split games. They have also taken to blocking foreign satellite coverage that is beamed into the UK.

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This might be a really daft question and it's probably something that has been discussed on here to the death but would it be safe to assume that their home games aren't ever shown in order to protect their ticket sales?

 

I guess they can get away with external sponsorship deals that don't involve pitch/stadium advertising then....

It's a crap tv deal and needs to be changed. Romanov is spot on in calling for this change.

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Correct. They do show some post split games. They have also taken to blocking foreign satellite coverage that is beamed into the UK.

 

 

I don't really understand that stuff - you mean like the coverage from Polsat and Al Jazeera etc?

 

It's a crap tv deal and needs to be changed. Romanov is spot on in calling for this change.

 

 

Indeed. Although I'd be surprised if the other clubs would all necessarily make the same decision based on the difference it would make to the type of promotional opportunities they could offer potential sponsors. I have no idea what the figures are, maybe it would be worth it, but presumably this stuff would be an attractive part of the packages they offer....

 

 

 

 

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I think it's more to do with the fact that if you show one of the OF away from home you are guaranteed a decent sized TV audience but if you show the OF at home most of them will be at the game anyway and your Tv audience will be a lot lower. It's simple economics really.

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I think it's more to do with the fact that if you show one of the OF away from home you are guaranteed a decent sized TV audience but if you show the OF at home most of them will be at the game anyway and your Tv audience will be a lot lower. It's simple economics really.

 

Suits both parties then....mind you, I don't know what difference a couple of thousand would really make. But then I have no idea what sort of audience figures these games get either...

 

 

 

 

 

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Hearts Heritage

I think it's more to do with the fact that if you show one of the OF away from home you are guaranteed a decent sized TV audience but if you show the OF at home most of them will be at the game anyway and your Tv audience will be a lot lower. It's simple economics really.

 

Only partially true. The OF crowds are down when the game is televised look at their home crowds in the League Cup for televised games. Therefore they DO Not want their home games telivised they want punters through the turnstiles

 

Celtic Aberdeen got 38,000 No TV

 

 

Rangers Motherwell 23,000 on TV

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also the games are advertised about 3 months in advance so no one thought we would be putting up a challenge to the old firm.

 

We may get our return trip to ibrox on the tv after the split.

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Guest Dipped Flake

This might be a really daft question and it's probably something that has been discussed on here to the death but would it be safe to assume that their home games aren't ever shown in order to protect their ticket sales?

 

I guess they can get away with external sponsorship deals that don't involve pitch/stadium advertising then....

 

 

The tv deal states that no team can have more than 4 home games live so the tv companies have the 2 old-firm home games for each team, the first game of the season for whichver one won the league and the last game of the season for whichever wins the league. That only really leaves them with one more home game to show which they very rarely do

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Hearts Heritage

The tv deal states that no team can have more than 4 home games live so the tv companies have the 2 old-firm home games for each team, the first game of the season for whichver one won the league and the last game of the season for whichever wins the league. That only really leaves them with one more home game to show which they very rarely do

 

Been relaxed this season

 

2010-10-02 Sat Hearts 1-2 Rangers L SPL 15637

2010-10-31 Sun Hearts 0-3 Kilmarnock L SPL 13056

2010-11-10 Wed Hearts 2-0 Celtic L SPL 15632

2011-01-01 Sat Hearts 1-0 Hibernian L SPL 17156

2011-01-22 Sat Hearts 1-0 Rangers L SPL 16737

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The tv deal states that no team can have more than 4 home games live so the tv companies have the 2 old-firm home games for each team, the first game of the season for whichver one won the league and the last game of the season for whichever wins the league. That only really leaves them with one more home game to show which they very rarely do

 

 

that was changed when sentata upped their match count from 38 to 60. They can show what they like but they generally follow the old firm away and throw in a few other games.

 

They didn't do flag day this season

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Charlie-Brown

Iam fairly certain in recent times we've had all 4 Old Firm games plus 2 Edinburgh derbies at Tynecastle all televised live in the same season, that's 6 home games minimum shown on TV.

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You see, this way the Old Firm get a guaranteed income every week, even for away games, where as everyone ele does not, and indeed could lose out due to smaller crowds because it is on TV with a stupid o'clock kick off time, and sometimes a Sunday where the cost of policing and stewarding is higher.

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Hearts Heritage

Iam fairly certain in recent times we've had all 4 Old Firm games plus 2 Edinburgh derbies at Tynecastle all televised live in the same season, that's 6 home games minimum shown on TV.

 

Restrictions were up to the split.

 

Live at Home in the league

 

 

2-Aug-1998 L SPL Rangers 2-1 Tynecastle Park 15272

6-Dec-1998 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17334

14-Apr-1999 L SPL Celtic 2-4 Tynecastle Park 16388

3-May-1999 L SPL Dunfermline Athletic 2-0 Tynecastle Park 15176

 

22-Aug-1999 L SPL Aberdeen 3-0 Tynecastle Park 12803

5-Dec-1999 L SPL Dundee United 3-0 Tynecastle Park 10598

19-Dec-1999 L SPL Hibernian 0-3 Tynecastle Park 17954

21-May-2000 L SPL Hibernian 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17391

 

24-Sep-2000 L SPL Kilmarnock 0-2 Tynecastle Park 10379

3-Dec-2000 L SPL Rangers 0-1 Tynecastle Park 16710

26-Dec-2000 L SPL Hibernian 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17619

4-Feb-2001 L SPL Celtic 0-3 Tynecastle Park 13077

 

8-Sep-2001 L SPL Rangers 2-2 Tynecastle Park 14014

12-Sep-2004 L SPL Rangers 0-0 Tynecastle Park 14601

2-Mar-2005 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 13842

15-May-2005 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 15927

 

7-Aug-2005 L SPL Hibernian 4-0 Tynecastle Park 16459

24-Sep-2005 L SPL Rangers 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17379

1-Jan-2006 L SPL Celtic 2-3 Tynecastle Park 17358

19-Mar-2006 L SPL Rangers 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17040

30-Apr-2006 L SPL Celtic 3-0 Tynecastle Park 16795

 

6-Aug-2006 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 16822

19-Nov-2006 L SPL Rangers 0-1 Tynecastle Park 17040

26-Dec-2006 L SPL Hibernian 3-2 Tynecastle Park 17369

14-Jan-2007 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 17129

6-May-2007 L SPL Aberdeen 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17208

12-May-2007 L SPL Hibernian 2-0 Tynecastle Park 16434

 

6-Aug-2007 L SPL Hibernian 0-1 Tynecastle Park 16436

15-Sep-2007 L SPL Rangers 4-2 Tynecastle Park 15948

11-Nov-2007 L SPL Aberdeen 4-1 Tynecastle Park 17122

1-Dec-2007 L SPL Celtic 1-1 Tynecastle Park 16454

19-Jan-2008 L SPL Hibernian 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17131

27-Feb-2008 L SPL Rangers 0-4 Tynecastle Park 16173

 

2-Nov-2008 L SPL Celtic 0-2 Tynecastle Park 15460

29-Nov-2008 L SPL Rangers 2-1 Tynecastle Park 15710

3-Jan-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-0 Tynecastle Park 17244

11-Apr-2009 L SPL Celtic 1-1 Tynecastle Park 16514

7-May-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-1 Tynecastle Park 14714

 

23-Aug-2009 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 16284

7-Nov-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-0 Tynecastle Park 16762

20-Dec-2009 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 16223

20-Mar-2010 L SPL Hibernian 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17126

27-Mar-2010 L SPL Rangers 1-4 Tynecastle Park 16832

9-May-2010 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 14389

 

2-Oct-2010 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 15637

31-Oct-2010 L SPL Kilmarnock 0-3 Tynecastle Park 13056

10-Nov-2010 L SPL Celtic 2-0 Tynecastle Park 15632

1-Jan-2011 L SPL Hibernian 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17156

22-Jan-2011 L SPL Rangers 1-0 Tynecastle Park 16737

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Hearts Heritage

Left the BBC ones out

 

1986-04-20 Sun Hearts 1-1 Aberdeen L Premier 19047 Colquhoun; [Peter Russell Weir pen;] link--->

 

1990-04-04 Wed Hearts 0-0 Dundee L Premier 10761 link--->

 

1992-01-01 Wed Hearts 1-1 Hibernian L Premier 20358 Ferguson I; [Thomas McIntyre pen;] link--->

 

1995-11-19 Sun Hearts 2-1 Hibernian L Premier 12074 Millar;Robertson pen; [Christopher Robert Jackson;] link--->

 

1996-10-20 Sun Hearts 2-2 Celtic L Premier 13352 Cameron;McPherson; [Pierre Van Hooijdonk;Pierre Van Hooijdonk;] link--->

 

1998-01-01 Thu Hearts 2-2 Hibernian L Premier 17564 Fulton;Fulton; [Andrew Francis Walker;Patrick David McGinlay;] link--->

1998-02-08 Sun Hearts 1-1 Celtic L Premier 17657 Quitongo; [Jackie McNamara;] link--->

 

1998-08-02 Sun Hearts 2-1 Rangers L SPL 15272 Adam;Hamilton; [Rodney Seymour Wallace;] link--->

1998-12-06 Sun Hearts 2-1 Celtic L SPL 17334 Adam;Adam; [Philip O'Donnell;] link--->

1999-04-14 Wed Hearts 2-4 Celtic L SPL 16388 Adam;Adam; [Vidar Riseth;Reginald Waldie Blinker;Mark Anthony Viduka;Mark Anthony Viduka;] link--->

1999-05-03 Mon Hearts 2-0 Dunfermline Athletic L SPL 15176 Cameron;Cameron; link--->

 

1999-08-22 Sun Hearts 3-0 Aberdeen L SPL 12803 McSwegan;McSwegan;McSwegan; link--->

1999-12-05 Sun Hearts 3-0 Dundee United L SPL 10598 Juanjo;Jackson;Adam; link--->

1999-12-19 Sun Hearts 0-3 Hibernian L SPL 17954 [Dirk Lehmann;Franck Gaston Henri Sauzee;Kenneth Miller;] link--->

2000-05-21 Sun Hearts 2-1 Hibernian L SPL 17391 Juanjo;McSwegan; [Mika-Matti Petteri Paatelainen;] link--->

 

2000-09-24 Sun Hearts 0-2 Kilmarnock L SPL 10379 [Paul Hamilton Wright;Frederic Dindeleux;] link--->

2000-12-03 Sun Hearts 0-1 Rangers L SPL 16710 [Jorg Albertz pen;] link--->

2000-12-26 Tue Hearts 1-1 Hibernian L SPL 17619 McSwegan; [stuart Andrew Lovell;] link--->

2001-02-04 Sun Hearts 0-3 Celtic L SPL 13077 [Henrik Larsson;Henrik Larsson;Henrik Larsson;] link--->

2001-09-08 Sat Hearts 2-2 Rangers L SPL 14014 McKenna;Simmons; [Russell Nigel Latapy;Tore Andre Flo;] link--->

 

2002-08-11 Sun Hearts 5-1 Hibernian L SPL 15245 Kirk;De Vries;De Vries;De Vries;De Vries; [ian William Murray;] link--->

2002-09-15 Sun Hearts 4-2 Motherwell L SPL 8578 De Vries;Kirk;Boyack;Kirk; [Dirk Lehmann;James McFadden;] link--->

2002-10-20 Sun Hearts 1-4 Celtic L SPL 13911 Wales; [Christopher Roy Sutton;Stilian Petrov;Henrik Larsson;Henrik Larsson;] link--->

2002-12-01 Sun Hearts 0-4 Rangers L SPL 12156 [Fernando Ricksen;Barry Ferguson pen;Fernando Ricksen;Stephen Hughes;] link--->

2003-05-18 Sun Hearts 0-2 Rangers L SPL 15632 [Ronald de Boer;Peter Lovenkrands;] link--->

 

2003-09-21 Sun Hearts 0-4 Rangers L SPL 14732 [shota Arveladze;Peter Lovenkrands;Shota Arveladze;Peter Lovenkrands;] link--->

2003-11-23 Sun Hearts 2-0 Hibernian L SPL 16632 Alen Orman og;Gary Smith og; link--->

2003-12-27 Sat Hearts 0-0 Motherwell L SPL 10046 link--->

2004-01-18 Sun Hearts 0-1 Celtic L SPL 13753 [stilian Petrov;] link--->

2004-01-24 Sat Hearts 2-0 Partick Thistle L SPL 10264 Wyness;Wyness; link--->

2004-03-13 Sat Hearts 1-1 Rangers L SPL 14598 Wyness; [Craig Andrew Moore pen;] link--->

2004-04-25 Sun Hearts 1-1 Celtic L SPL 12112 De Vries; [Aiden McGeady;] link--->

 

2004-09-12 Sun Hearts 0-0 Rangers L SPL 14601 link--->

2005-03-02 Wed Hearts 1-2 Rangers L SPL 13842 Burchill; [ignacio Javier Gomez Novo;Fernando Ricksen pen;] link--->

2005-05-15 Sun Hearts 1-2 Celtic L SPL 15927 Hartley; [Alan Thompson;Craig Beattie;] link--->

 

2005-08-07 Sun Hearts 4-0 Hibernian L SPL 16459 Skacel;Hartley pen;Simmons;Mikoliunas; link--->

2005-09-24 Sat Hearts 1-0 Rangers L SPL 17379 Bednar; link--->

2006-01-01 Sun Hearts 2-3 Celtic L SPL 17358 Jankauskas;Pressley; [stephen Paul Pearson;Stephen McManus;Stephen McManus;] link--->

2006-03-19 Sun Hearts 1-1 Rangers L SPL 17040 Jankauskas; [Thomas Buffel;] link--->

2006-04-30 Sun Hearts 3-0 Celtic L SPL 16795 Stephen McManus og;Hartley;Bednar; link--->

 

2006-08-06 Sun Hearts 2-1 Celtic L SPL 16822 Bednar;Bednar; [stilian Petrov;] link--->

2006-11-19 Sun Hearts 0-1 Rangers L SPL 17040 [ignacio Javier Gomez Novo;] link--->

2006-12-26 Tue Hearts 3-2 Hibernian L SPL 17369 Hartley;Jankauskas;Mikoliunas; [Christopher John Killen;Dean Shiels pen;] link--->

2007-01-14 Sun Hearts 1-2 Celtic L SPL 17129 Mikoliunas; [Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink;Jiri Jarosik;] link--->

2007-05-06 Sun Hearts 1-1 Aberdeen L SPL 17208 Velicka; [barry Nicholson;] link--->

2007-05-12 Sat Hearts 2-0 Hibernian L SPL 16434 Pospisil;Driver; link--->

 

2007-08-06 Mon Hearts 0-1 Hibernian L SPL 16436 [brian [1] Kerr;] link--->

2007-09-15 Sat Hearts 4-2 Rangers L SPL 15948 Driver;Tall;Stewart pen;Ivaskevicius; [Daniel Cousin pen;DaMarcus Lamont Beasley;] link--->

2007-11-11 Sun Hearts 4-1 Aberdeen L SPL 17122 Driver;Velicka;Tall;Nade; [Jeffrey De Visscher;] link--->

2007-12-01 Sat Hearts 1-1 Celtic L SPL 16454 Velicka pen; [scott Douglas McDonald;] link--->

2008-01-19 Sat Hearts 1-0 Hibernian L SPL 17131 Velicka; link--->

2008-02-27 Wed Hearts 0-4 Rangers L SPL 16173 [Jean-Claude Ducan Darcheville;Jean-Claude Ducan Darcheville;Ignacio Javier Gomez Novo;Ignacio Javier Gomez Novo;] link--->

 

2008-11-02 Sun Hearts 0-2 Celtic L SPL 15460 [shaun Richard Maloney;Gary Caldwell;] link--->

2008-11-29 Sat Hearts 2-1 Rangers L SPL 15710 Zaliukas;Kingston; [Karipidis og;] link--->

2009-01-03 Sat Hearts 0-0 Hibernian L SPL 17244 link--->

2009-04-11 Sat Hearts 1-1 Celtic L SPL 16514 Aguiar; [Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink;] link--->

2009-05-07 Thu Hearts 0-1 Hibernian L SPL 14714 [Derek George Riordan pen;] link--->

 

2009-08-23 Sun Hearts 1-2 Rangers L SPL 16284 Witteveen; [Lee Henry McCulloch;Kris Boyd pen;] link--->

2009-11-07 Sat Hearts 0-0 Hibernian L SPL 16762 link--->

2009-12-20 Sun Hearts 2-1 Celtic L SPL 16223 Stewart M pen;Bouzid; [Georgios Samaras;] link--->

2010-03-20 Sat Hearts 2-1 Hibernian L SPL 17126 Driver;Glen; [Derek George Riordan;] link--->

2010-03-27 Sat Hearts 1-4 Rangers L SPL 16832 Suso; [Danny Wilson;Kenneth Miller;Steven John Naismith;Steven John Naismith;] link--->

2010-05-09 Sun Hearts 1-2 Celtic L SPL 14389 Zaliukas; [Robbie Keane;Zheng Zhi;] link--->

 

2010-10-02 Sat Hearts 1-2 Rangers L SPL 15637 Skacel; [Kyle Lafferty;Steven John Naismith;] link--->

2010-10-31 Sun Hearts 0-3 Kilmarnock L SPL 13056 [Fraser Wright;Conor Sammon;Aleksei Eremenko;] link--->

2010-11-10 Wed Hearts 2-0 Celtic L SPL 15632 Black;Templeton; link--->

2011-01-01 Sat Hearts 1-0 Hibernian L SPL 17156 Kyle; link--->

2011-01-22 Sat Hearts 1-0 Rangers L SPL 16737 Skacel; link--->

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Restrictions were up to the split.

 

Live at Home in the league

 

 

2-Aug-1998 L SPL Rangers 2-1 Tynecastle Park 15272

6-Dec-1998 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17334

14-Apr-1999 L SPL Celtic 2-4 Tynecastle Park 16388

3-May-1999 L SPL Dunfermline Athletic 2-0 Tynecastle Park 15176

 

22-Aug-1999 L SPL Aberdeen 3-0 Tynecastle Park 12803

5-Dec-1999 L SPL Dundee United 3-0 Tynecastle Park 10598

19-Dec-1999 L SPL Hibernian 0-3 Tynecastle Park 17954

21-May-2000 L SPL Hibernian 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17391

 

24-Sep-2000 L SPL Kilmarnock 0-2 Tynecastle Park 10379

3-Dec-2000 L SPL Rangers 0-1 Tynecastle Park 16710

26-Dec-2000 L SPL Hibernian 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17619

4-Feb-2001 L SPL Celtic 0-3 Tynecastle Park 13077

 

8-Sep-2001 L SPL Rangers 2-2 Tynecastle Park 14014

hearts 0-2 rangers

12-Sep-2004 L SPL Rangers 0-0 Tynecastle Park 14601

2-Mar-2005 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 13842

15-May-2005 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 15927

 

7-Aug-2005 L SPL Hibernian 4-0 Tynecastle Park 16459

24-Sep-2005 L SPL Rangers 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17379

1-Jan-2006 L SPL Celtic 2-3 Tynecastle Park 17358

19-Mar-2006 L SPL Rangers 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17040

30-Apr-2006 L SPL Celtic 3-0 Tynecastle Park 16795

 

6-Aug-2006 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 16822

19-Nov-2006 L SPL Rangers 0-1 Tynecastle Park 17040

26-Dec-2006 L SPL Hibernian 3-2 Tynecastle Park 17369

14-Jan-2007 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 17129

6-May-2007 L SPL Aberdeen 1-1 Tynecastle Park 17208

12-May-2007 L SPL Hibernian 2-0 Tynecastle Park 16434

 

6-Aug-2007 L SPL Hibernian 0-1 Tynecastle Park 16436

15-Sep-2007 L SPL Rangers 4-2 Tynecastle Park 15948

11-Nov-2007 L SPL Aberdeen 4-1 Tynecastle Park 17122

1-Dec-2007 L SPL Celtic 1-1 Tynecastle Park 16454

19-Jan-2008 L SPL Hibernian 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17131

27-Feb-2008 L SPL Rangers 0-4 Tynecastle Park 16173

 

2-Nov-2008 L SPL Celtic 0-2 Tynecastle Park 15460

29-Nov-2008 L SPL Rangers 2-1 Tynecastle Park 15710

3-Jan-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-0 Tynecastle Park 17244

11-Apr-2009 L SPL Celtic 1-1 Tynecastle Park 16514

7-May-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-1 Tynecastle Park 14714

 

23-Aug-2009 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 16284

7-Nov-2009 L SPL Hibernian 0-0 Tynecastle Park 16762

20-Dec-2009 L SPL Celtic 2-1 Tynecastle Park 16223

20-Mar-2010 L SPL Hibernian 2-1 Tynecastle Park 17126

27-Mar-2010 L SPL Rangers 1-4 Tynecastle Park 16832

9-May-2010 L SPL Celtic 1-2 Tynecastle Park 14389

 

2-Oct-2010 L SPL Rangers 1-2 Tynecastle Park 15637

31-Oct-2010 L SPL Kilmarnock 0-3 Tynecastle Park 13056

10-Nov-2010 L SPL Celtic 2-0 Tynecastle Park 15632

1-Jan-2011 L SPL Hibernian 1-0 Tynecastle Park 17156

22-Jan-2011 L SPL Rangers 1-0 Tynecastle Park 16737

 

ya missed out one in bold. the stato that I am!

 

also in 2000-01 there were quite a few games where the old firm WERE at home to some random non old firm teams. As someone else pointed out, the bbc had a few isolated games during sky's contract, The de la cruz 1st min goal e.g.

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Hearts Heritage

ya missed out one in bold. the stato that I am!

 

also in 2000-01 there were quite a few games where the old firm WERE at home to some random non old firm teams. As someone else pointed out, the bbc had a few isolated games during sky's contract, The de la cruz 1st min goal e.g.

 

 

See second list with the BBC ones!

 

 

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What's this steam pro that's often referred to?

 

search google - live streaming football celtic game was good quality stupid commentry by jim craig though the rangers game is on wed I paid ?5 paypal :thumbsup:

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See second list with the BBC ones!

 

the one missed out was on sky and it was when there was a min silence and some rangers fan shouted out "viva republic" just before it finished. Niemi made some great saves that day

 

 

Sat 09/02/2002

Hearts

Rangers

17:35

0 - 2

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Hearts Heritage

the one missed out was on sky and it was when there was a min silence and some rangers fan shouted out "viva republic" just before it finished. Niemi made some great saves that day

 

 

Sat 09/02/2002

Hearts

Rangers

17:35

0 - 2

 

I'll update my records accordingly. Thanks!

 

2002020901%20Rangers%200-2%20Tynecastle.jpg

 

 

 

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I'll update my records accordingly. Thanks!

 

2002020901%20Rangers%200-2%20Tynecastle.jpg

 

 

no problem. Honestly some of the Niemi saves that day were superb.

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A shitty tv stream that probably ****s up your PC.

 

Got a right bee in your bonnet about something that seems to work for loads of folk.

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